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So is the border fence
-Geaux
Who's threatening to shut down the government if the border fence isn't torn down?
that's not the point. The point is supporters of Obamacare using the 'law' as an excuse not to negotiate, really have no basis for such an argument when we have laws unenforced. Obama should have the same passion for all laws, not just the socialist ones
-Geaux
How long has the law been on the books?
3 years. But only now are the people being told what it will do to them personally. Up to now its all been lies and rhetoric-----"you can keep your policy" "you can keep your doctor" "it will save you $2500/year" "it will reduce the deficit" all lies.
The law has been on the books, and therefore available for all to see and read, for 3 years.
There is no 'only now' about it.
The 2nd Amendment is the law of the land.
But so was slavery.
...see what I just did?
Who's threatening to shut down the government if the border fence isn't torn down?
that's not the point. The point is supporters of Obamacare using the 'law' as an excuse not to negotiate, really have no basis for such an argument when we have laws unenforced. Obama should have the same passion for all laws, not just the socialist ones
-Geaux
The Republicans are employing a hostage/blackmail (take your pick) strategy.
The Democrats cannot let them succeed with that and establish that as a legitimate governing strategy.
As a more practical matter,
the Democrats cannot agree to a 1 year delay of the mandate under this sort of threat for the simple reason that the GOP cannot guarantee they will not be back in a year, with the same threat,
demanding another delay.
Are you seriously comparing slavery to affordable health care?
Tell me honestly, if it were a GOP Pres and Senate and a Dem House, would you support the minority party shutting down the government to force legislation they didn't have the votes for?
3 years. But only now are the people being told what it will do to them personally. Up to now its all been lies and rhetoric-----"you can keep your policy" "you can keep your doctor" "it will save you $2500/year" "it will reduce the deficit" all lies.
The law has been on the books, and therefore available for all to see and read, for 3 years.
There is no 'only now' about it.
Do you really think that the average american will read and understand 3000 pages of legalize and govt double talk?
Why do you think the unions have come out so strongly against it, after campaigning for it? Answer: they found out what it was going to do to their members. Duh
that's not the point. The point is supporters of Obamacare using the 'law' as an excuse not to negotiate, really have no basis for such an argument when we have laws unenforced. Obama should have the same passion for all laws, not just the socialist ones
-Geaux
The Republicans are employing a hostage/blackmail (take your pick) strategy.
The Democrats cannot let them succeed with that and establish that as a legitimate governing strategy.
As a more practical matter,
the Democrats cannot agree to a 1 year delay of the mandate under this sort of threat for the simple reason that the GOP cannot guarantee they will not be back in a year, with the same threat,
demanding another delay.
How do you know that obama won't grant another delay to his big business cronies? How do you know he won't give the unions an exemption?
this is terrible legislation. It needs to be fixed before it destroys our economy and our medical system.
The Republicans are employing a hostage/blackmail (take your pick) strategy.
The Democrats cannot let them succeed with that and establish that as a legitimate governing strategy.
As a more practical matter,
the Democrats cannot agree to a 1 year delay of the mandate under this sort of threat for the simple reason that the GOP cannot guarantee they will not be back in a year, with the same threat,
demanding another delay.
How do you know that obama won't grant another delay to his big business cronies? How do you know he won't give the unions an exemption?
this is terrible legislation. It needs to be fixed before it destroys our economy and our medical system.
Delaying implementation of elements of a complex law is the right of the administrators of the law. That has been decided in the courts.
Again, the Democrats cannot capitulate to the blackmailers. The GOP made a very bad mistake here by resorting to blackmail, or hostage taking,
to try to get their way. They have to be held to account for that choice of action. They cannot be given validation on the use of blackmail or hostage taking.
The law has been on the books, and therefore available for all to see and read, for 3 years.
There is no 'only now' about it.
Do you really think that the average american will read and understand 3000 pages of legalize and govt double talk?
Why do you think the unions have come out so strongly against it, after campaigning for it? Answer: they found out what it was going to do to their members. Duh
You're arguing for anarchy. No sane person wants anarchy.
Obama says Obamacare is the law of the land . So where other things like Slavery, segregation, prohibing, women's suffrage, prohibition, DOMA And all those laws were changed. So ,do you libs want to go back and put all these laws back into place since it WAS the law of the land in history. I sure dont but since you are so hell bent saying this is the LAW Of the LAND so were all of these
How were those laws changed?
(oh, just a historical note, with possibly the exception of prohibition, every one of those changes was opposed by the conservatives of those times.)
3 years. But only now are the people being told what it will do to them personally. Up to now its all been lies and rhetoric-----"you can keep your policy" "you can keep your doctor" "it will save you $2500/year" "it will reduce the deficit" all lies.
The law has been on the books, and therefore available for all to see and read, for 3 years.
There is no 'only now' about it.
Do you really think that the average american will read and understand 3000 pages of legalize and govt double talk?
Why do you think the unions have come out so strongly against it, after campaigning for it? Answer: they found out what it was going to do to their members. Duh
Yes, its law.
congress is not obligated to fund every law, they are obligated to create a budget that sets priorities in funding based on revenue
65-70% of americans do not want ACA
Only 15% of the govt is shut down and that was done by Obama, because he and the senate dems have refused to do their jobs and work to find a compromise with the house.
The real reason that obama will not agree to a 1 year delay is because even he knows that if the people have another year to learn how bad this law is, they will reject in completely. He is trying to ram in home before the country finds out what it really is.
Link for your 65-70% bullshit. The majority DO NOT want repeal or shutdown.
The GOP orchestrated the shutdown weeks ago, telegraphed their intentions and now are "gleeful" that it is done. They are also shouldering the majority of the blame as they should. This "blame the President lie" is akin to one sibling pushing the other into the table, knocking over and breaking the lamp and saying "look what you did".
The country is finding out what it "really is"...and it's saving them money.
here's one from CBS.
Majority of Americans oppose Obamacare, want it repealed, poll finds - National Government | Examiner.com
in all but 3 or 4 states, the annual premiums are going up significantly, and the coverage is less than what they had before, large deductibles, limitations of types of testing etc.
If a poor person gets a policy, the premium is subsidized by the govt, but the policy has a 10K deductible, who do you think is going to pay the 10K? not the poor person, you and me, just like we do now. But under obozocare we will also have to pay for a huge govt beaurocracy.
Obama says Obamacare is the law of the land . So where other things like Slavery, segregation, prohibing, women's suffrage, prohibition, DOMA And all those laws were changed. So ,do you libs want to go back and put all these laws back into place since it WAS the law of the land in history. I sure dont but since you are so hell bent saying this is the LAW Of the LAND so were all of these
Are you seriously comparing slavery to affordable health care?
Tell me honestly, if it were a GOP Pres and Senate and a Dem House, would you support the minority party shutting down the government to force legislation they didn't have the votes for?
Obama says Obamacare is the law of the land . So where other things like Slavery, segregation, prohibing, women's suffrage, prohibition, DOMA And all those laws were changed. So ,do you libs want to go back and put all these laws back into place since it WAS the law of the land in history. I sure dont but since you are so hell bent saying this is the LAW Of the LAND so were all of these
The stupidity of the OP and other conservatives knows no bounds.
There was already a failed thread concerning the ACA/slavery nonsense.
This thread is just as much an ignorant failure.
This argument is a fallacy because it compares two completely different issues, one having nothing to do with the other.
That one perceives a given law as being bad or wrong doesnt mitigate its legitimacy until such time as its repealed by Congress or invalidated by the courts.
Moreover, issues such as slavery and segregation were addressed in accordance with the Constitution, unlike what conservatives advocate with regard to the ACA, where slavery was ended by amending the Constitution and laws enforcing segregation were struck down by the courts.
Conservatives have had their day in court and failed, and theyve failed time again and again to repeal the Act; if they want to attempt to amend the Constitution to end the ACA theyre at liberty to do so.
But the ACA is for now the law of the land, its fate has nothing to do with whether the government is funded or not, and it has nothing to do with whether the government can pay its debts or not. As settled and accepted Federal law, in effect for three years now, there is nothing compelling the president to negotiate because there is indeed nothing for the president to negotiate.
The ACA was created by Congress and only Congress can amend or repeal the Act.
Yes , Because Obama is forcing US who do not want it do so something we do not want to do. Just like Slavery..
Because forcing someone to spend a few bucks and do a sensible thing is just like working 16 hours a day in the blazing sun picking cotton for no pay.
Do you people really expect to be taken seriously with that argument?
It's against the constitution to FORCE anyone to buy something they don't want or get taxed (fined) for it if they don't. And yes it can be compared to slavery...people are being forced against their will to do something they don't want to do. But all Lovebear was saying is just because it's a law, doesn't mean it can't be changed.
Whether the mandate can be upheld under the Commerce Clause is a question about the scope of federal authority. Its answer depends on whether Congress can exercise what all acknowledge to be the novel course of directing individuals to purchase insurance. Congresss use of the Taxing Clause to encourage buying something is, by contrast, not new. Tax incentives already promote, for example, purchasing homes and professional educations. See 26 U. S. C. §§163(h), 25A. Sustaining the mandate as a tax depends only on whether Congress has properly exercised its taxing power to encourage purchasing health insurance, not whether it can. Upholding the individual mandate under the Taxing Clause thus does not recognize any new federal power. It determines that Congress has used an existing one.
NATIONAL FEDERATION OF INDEPENDENT BUSINESS v. SEBELIUS | Supreme Court | LII / Legal Information Institute
Obama says Obamacare is the law of the land . So where other things like Slavery, segregation, prohibing, women's suffrage, prohibition, DOMA And all those laws were changed. So ,do you libs want to go back and put all these laws back into place since it WAS the law of the land in history. I sure dont but since you are so hell bent saying this is the LAW Of the LAND so were all of these
Obama says Obamacare is the law of the land . So where other things like Slavery, segregation, prohibing, women's suffrage, prohibition, DOMA And all those laws were changed. So ,do you libs want to go back and put all these laws back into place since it WAS the law of the land in history. I sure dont but since you are so hell bent saying this is the LAW Of the LAND so were all of these
Obamacare can be removed using the same Constitutional processes as were used on the evils you mention; until it is removed by a Constitutional process, however, Obamacare is the law of the land.
