Obama stimulus is failed

[Polk]

I thought you were against corporate welfare? Or is it just when a black man does it?

When an economy is going into a deflationary spiral, the government has to be the demand of last resort.

Bush, Obama, and Congress all understood that and to their credit prevented another Great Depression.

This idiotic theory was debunked 70 years ago with the Great Depression. Gov't turned a severe recession into a Great Depression by its actions. It looks like we are headed the same direction today.

Idiotic theory? The Great Depression proved he's exactly right. Hoover sits around and plays with himself for three years and the economy falls further into the abyss. FDR comes in, starts spending more, unemployment steadily declines and output increases, until he listens to the conservatives of his day and cuts spending. The result of those cuts was an increase in unemployment.

 

[NYcarbineer]

Walter Mead has a good analysis which explains why Obama's stimulus failed. He explains how Big Government Progressivism has gone through four phases: Great White Hope, Great White Father, Great White Elephant, and finally Great White Shark. If we don't stop this madness, we'll achieve the fifth and final phase: The Great White Whale.

The Obama Stimulus is a Phase 4 effort.

The life cycle of a governing political paradigm is different from the cycle of a TV sitcom. It takes more to sink a way of life than to sink a sitcom, and the aftermath is much messier. But to grasp what it means to say that progressivism is jumping the shark, let us look at the stages of life in a progressive government program.

In the first stage of a government program, there’s a terrible social problem that has people wringing their hands. Not enough kids are going to college. Middle class families can’t get home mortgages. The river keeps flooding the town. Sick old people who have worked all their lives are eating cat food in the hobo jungle.

The government offers a solution that will fix the problem at a relatively modest cost. It is the hero cutting the heroine loose from the railroad tracks as the train approaches. It is the Lone Ranger riding into town to fix the bad guys. The government program in this early stage is the Great White Hope: once we get it up and running, people believe, life is going to get better....

When Government Jumps the Shark | Via Meadia

So if Obama had taken office in January 2009 and promptly cut a trillion dollars worth of government spending in order to balance the budget without raising taxes,

where do you suppose things would be today?

 

[Polk]

I gave the evidence. It is historical fact. We should be seeing much better numbers than we've seen. Especially given the unprecedented intervention by the gov't in the economy.

Unless, of course that intervention is actually the problem...hmm.....

No, you're stated what happened in other periods. There is absolutely no reason to believe that the economy will behave the same way in this period, especially noting the difference in circumstances.

Based on that kind of reasoning there is no way to know what effect ANY action would have on the economy. So throwing trillions of dollars at it was merely a guess.
DO you really want to go down that road?

Not true. Noting this situation is not like the ones you are trying to compare it to is not saying that it's a unique circumstance in the history of human events.

 

[NYcarbineer]

Make that 1982.
Look at the lengrh of the recession, about the same. And then look at where unemployment was X number of months out. Look at where GDP was X number of months out. The earlier recession resulted in healthy growth and low unemployment. This one has resulted in tepid growth at best and sustained high unemployment. This is despite (or because of) massive intervention by the government.
Ergo this approach is a failure.

The 1982 recession ended a few months after Reagan and Congress passed the biggest tax increase in history,

to roll back a significant portion of the original Reagan tax cuts.

So you're saying that is best course of action that Obama and Congress should have taken?

lol

No. I'm saying you ate stupid for breakfast this morning.

I'll take that to mean you are not familiar with the Reagan tax increase of 1982. My advice would be,

don't make proclamations about historical events when you don't know the actual history.

 

[NYcarbineer]

When an economy is going into a deflationary spiral, the government has to be the demand of last resort.

Bush, Obama, and Congress all understood that and to their credit prevented another Great Depression.

This idiotic theory was debunked 70 years ago with the Great Depression. Gov't turned a severe recession into a Great Depression by its actions. It looks like we are headed the same direction today.

Idiotic theory? The Great Depression proved he's exactly right. Hoover sits around and plays with himself for three years and the economy falls further into the abyss. FDR comes in, starts spending more, unemployment steadily declines and output increases, until he listens to the conservatives of his day and cuts spending. The result of those cuts was an increase in unemployment.

This is where Rabbi comes in and says that it was WWII that got us out of recession,

not the New Deal.

 

[Polk]

This idiotic theory was debunked 70 years ago with the Great Depression. Gov't turned a severe recession into a Great Depression by its actions. It looks like we are headed the same direction today.

Idiotic theory? The Great Depression proved he's exactly right. Hoover sits around and plays with himself for three years and the economy falls further into the abyss. FDR comes in, starts spending more, unemployment steadily declines and output increases, until he listens to the conservatives of his day and cuts spending. The result of those cuts was an increase in unemployment.

This is where Rabbi comes in and says that it was WWII that got us out of recession,

not the New Deal.

Which shoots his own argument in the face.

 

[The Rabbi]

No, you're stated what happened in other periods. There is absolutely no reason to believe that the economy will behave the same way in this period, especially noting the difference in circumstances.

Based on that kind of reasoning there is no way to know what effect ANY action would have on the economy. So throwing trillions of dollars at it was merely a guess.
DO you really want to go down that road?

Not true. Noting this situation is not like the ones you are trying to compare it to is not saying that it's a unique circumstance in the history of human events.

So you can compare different periods except when you can't.
Got it.
Are you really this dumb?

 

[The Rabbi]

Idiotic theory? The Great Depression proved he's exactly right. Hoover sits around and plays with himself for three years and the economy falls further into the abyss. FDR comes in, starts spending more, unemployment steadily declines and output increases, until he listens to the conservatives of his day and cuts spending. The result of those cuts was an increase in unemployment.

This is where Rabbi comes in and says that it was WWII that got us out of recession,

not the New Deal.

Which shoots his own argument in the face.

The Depression ended with WW2. That is roughly 12 years of failed government policy.
After the War Democrats worried about another onset of the Depression and tried to get similar programs through Congress, which failed. We experienced the largest expansion in the economy in history.

 

[Polk]

Based on that kind of reasoning there is no way to know what effect ANY action would have on the economy. So throwing trillions of dollars at it was merely a guess.
DO you really want to go down that road?

Not true. Noting this situation is not like the ones you are trying to compare it to is not saying that it's a unique circumstance in the history of human events.

So you can compare different periods except when you can't.
Got it.
Are you really this dumb?

That's not what I said. Please try to keep up.

 

[The Rabbi]

Not true. Noting this situation is not like the ones you are trying to compare it to is not saying that it's a unique circumstance in the history of human events.

So you can compare different periods except when you can't.
Got it.
Are you really this dumb?

That's not what I said. Please try to keep up.

Of course it is.
We cannot look to the recession of the early '80s for a benchmark but we can look to the Great Depression for comparisons.
That is contradictory, Rastus.

 

[Polk]

This is where Rabbi comes in and says that it was WWII that got us out of recession,

not the New Deal.

Which shoots his own argument in the face.

The Depression ended with WW2. That is roughly 12 years of failed government policy.
After the War Democrats worried about another onset of the Depression and tried to get similar programs through Congress, which failed. We experienced the largest expansion in the economy in history.

You realize stating that the Second World War ended the depression undermines your own argument, right?

 

[Trajan]

Which shoots his own argument in the face.

The Depression ended with WW2. That is roughly 12 years of failed government policy.
After the War Democrats worried about another onset of the Depression and tried to get similar programs through Congress, which failed. We experienced the largest expansion in the economy in history.

You realize stating that the Second World War ended the depression undermines your own argument, right?

how so?

 

[Polk]

So you can compare different periods except when you can't.
Got it.
Are you really this dumb?

That's not what I said. Please try to keep up.

Of course it is.
We cannot look to the recession of the early '80s for a benchmark but we can look to the Great Depression for comparisons.
That is contradictory, Rastus.

I don't think the Great Depression is the best comparison, but even if I did, it's not contradictory. The current situation has very different traits from the recession of the early 1980s. That does not mean it lacks traits similar to other situations.

 

[Polk]

The Depression ended with WW2. That is roughly 12 years of failed government policy.
After the War Democrats worried about another onset of the Depression and tried to get similar programs through Congress, which failed. We experienced the largest expansion in the economy in history.

You realize stating that the Second World War ended the depression undermines your own argument, right?

how so?

It's a matter of mechanism. His argument is that government spending can't lift/help to lift the economy out of recession. How does fighting a way expand the economy? By a massive injection of government spending.

 

[Chris]

Walter Mead has a good analysis which explains why Obama's stimulus failed. He explains how Big Government Progressivism has gone through four phases: Great White Hope, Great White Father, Great White Elephant, and finally Great White Shark. If we don't stop this madness, we'll achieve the fifth and final phase: The Great White Whale.

The Obama Stimulus is a Phase 4 effort.

The life cycle of a governing political paradigm is different from the cycle of a TV sitcom. It takes more to sink a way of life than to sink a sitcom, and the aftermath is much messier. But to grasp what it means to say that progressivism is jumping the shark, let us look at the stages of life in a progressive government program.

In the first stage of a government program, there’s a terrible social problem that has people wringing their hands. Not enough kids are going to college. Middle class families can’t get home mortgages. The river keeps flooding the town. Sick old people who have worked all their lives are eating cat food in the hobo jungle.

The government offers a solution that will fix the problem at a relatively modest cost. It is the hero cutting the heroine loose from the railroad tracks as the train approaches. It is the Lone Ranger riding into town to fix the bad guys. The government program in this early stage is the Great White Hope: once we get it up and running, people believe, life is going to get better....

When Government Jumps the Shark | Via Meadia

Actually the stimulus succeeded.

It saved us from another Great Depression and created 15 straight months of job growth.

 

[The Rabbi]

That's not what I said. Please try to keep up.

Of course it is.
We cannot look to the recession of the early '80s for a benchmark but we can look to the Great Depression for comparisons.
That is contradictory, Rastus.

I don't think the Great Depression is the best comparison, but even if I did, it's not contradictory. The current situation has very different traits from the recession of the early 1980s. That does not mean it lacks traits similar to other situations.

So it is more similar to the Depression, which was 80 years ago, then the Reagan recession of the 1980s, which was 30 years ago, when we experienced similar rates of job loss?
You are veering into incoherence here.

 

[The Rabbi]

You realize stating that the Second World War ended the depression undermines your own argument, right?

how so?

It's a matter of mechanism. His argument is that government spending can't lift/help to lift the economy out of recession. How does fighting a way expand the economy? By a massive injection of government spending.

You are talking about a complete remaking of the economy as a command economy for war time. That isn't in any way proof that "government spending lifts an economy." The Soviet Union was a dynamo for the first decade or so.

 

[CrusaderFrank]

You realize stating that the Second World War ended the depression undermines your own argument, right?

how so?

It's a matter of mechanism. His argument is that government spending can't lift/help to lift the economy out of recession. How does fighting a way expand the economy? By a massive injection of government spending.

Which was a total failure from 1933 until Hitler's invasion of Poland.

Epic Fail.

Epic Fail every time its been tried.

 

[oreo]

Once again job numbers are out. The results are dismal. We now have 9.1% unemployment, not counting those who have given up. Economists expected job creation to be 160k. We got just 54k. Manufacturing lost jobs for the first time in 7 months.
This isn't a recovery. IN a recovery jobs are stable, overtime increases, temporary work increases and then permanent employment increases. We are seeing continued job losses.
So the promise of Obama's stimulus to add however many jobs to the economy is a lie. It is a total failure.
In a British style parliamentary system they would stage a no-confidence vote in Obama. They would win.

It was a failure the very day (2-1/2 years) ago when Obama signed off on the borrowed 787 billion dollars stimulus package. You see our Havard graduate--community organizer--intellectual--elite President didn't understand that he couldn't micro-manage it. He sure gave it one heck of a try though--LOL

 

[Toomey2020]

Walter Mead has a good analysis which explains why Obama's stimulus failed. He explains how Big Government Progressivism has gone through four phases: Great White Hope, Great White Father, Great White Elephant, and finally Great White Shark. If we don't stop this madness, we'll achieve the fifth and final phase: The Great White Whale.

The Obama Stimulus is a Phase 4 effort.

The life cycle of a governing political paradigm is different from the cycle of a TV sitcom. It takes more to sink a way of life than to sink a sitcom, and the aftermath is much messier. But to grasp what it means to say that progressivism is jumping the shark, let us look at the stages of life in a progressive government program.

In the first stage of a government program, there’s a terrible social problem that has people wringing their hands. Not enough kids are going to college. Middle class families can’t get home mortgages. The river keeps flooding the town. Sick old people who have worked all their lives are eating cat food in the hobo jungle.

The government offers a solution that will fix the problem at a relatively modest cost. It is the hero cutting the heroine loose from the railroad tracks as the train approaches. It is the Lone Ranger riding into town to fix the bad guys. The government program in this early stage is the Great White Hope: once we get it up and running, people believe, life is going to get better....

When Government Jumps the Shark | Via Meadia

Actually the stimulus succeeded.

It saved us from another Great Depression and created 15 straight months of job growth.

How can you possibly say that? The UE hasn't changed. The stimulus was designed to lower the UE, but it hasn't done that.