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No, the people that filed the lawsuit were private citizens (NOT CONGRESS OR "THE REPUBLICANS").....You don't seem to understand....."If it gets killed it will be solely on Obama's hands" will not sell with the voters.
Anymore than the shutdowns. What you think does not matter. Only what the voters think counts.
Now if the GOP can show that modified tort reform and inter-state cooperatives have the votes, then the fix can be made, allowing states that want their own programs can have them.
The GOP is shooting themselves in the foot over this. They have no leverage.
The blue states have their own state plans so they aren't harmed if the SCOTUS sides with the GOP on this.
Obama doesn't have to compromise because the GOP are only hurting their own constituents if they don't provide a fix that Obama will sign.
The GOP has no wiggle room. They are in charge of both houses so they have it in their power to fix the problem themselves.
This isn't rocket science although there are any number of morons out there who don't get it.
The Republicans didn't create the problem, Obama and the Democrats did.....
And the lawsuit was filed by private citizens (not the Republicans), and supported by a DEMOCRAT Attorney General....
But the Republicans get to fix Obama's mess, and it's on Obama if he wants to screw all those people!!!!!!!!!!! After all, the Republicans can't fix Obama and the Democrat's screwup unless Obama goes along with it...
It wasn't supporters of ObamaCare that filed the lawsuit so being disingenuous only harms your own credibility.
The damage to the GOP is self inflicted.
They have the power to apply a simple clean fix to the ACA.
If they choose not to do that then they deserve to lose the next election.
They can't blame that on anyone but themselves.
But they will try...just like you are doing.
No, the people that filed the lawsuit were private citizens (NOT CONGRESS OR "THE REPUBLICANS").....You don't seem to understand....."If it gets killed it will be solely on Obama's hands" will not sell with the voters.
Anymore than the shutdowns. What you think does not matter. Only what the voters think counts.
Now if the GOP can show that modified tort reform and inter-state cooperatives have the votes, then the fix can be made, allowing states that want their own programs can have them.
The GOP is shooting themselves in the foot over this. They have no leverage.
The blue states have their own state plans so they aren't harmed if the SCOTUS sides with the GOP on this.
Obama doesn't have to compromise because the GOP are only hurting their own constituents if they don't provide a fix that Obama will sign.
The GOP has no wiggle room. They are in charge of both houses so they have it in their power to fix the problem themselves.
This isn't rocket science although there are any number of morons out there who don't get it.
The Republicans didn't create the problem, Obama and the Democrats did.....
And the lawsuit was filed by private citizens (not the Republicans), and supported by a DEMOCRAT Attorney General....
But the Republicans get to fix Obama's mess, and it's on Obama if he wants to screw all those people!!!!!!!!!!! After all, the Republicans can't fix Obama and the Democrat's screwup unless Obama goes along with it...
It wasn't supporters of ObamaCare that filed the lawsuit so being disingenuous only harms your own credibility.
The damage to the GOP is self inflicted.
They have the power to apply a simple clean fix to the ACA.
If they choose not to do that then they deserve to lose the next election.
They can't blame that on anyone but themselves.
But they will try...just like you are doing.
So you are the one being disingenuous....
Unless you want to maintain that Obama should be impeached next time an individual commits a crime, there is no way you can hold the Republicans responsible for what some private citizens do.....
And Congress will come up with a fix for the ACA...... Let's just see if Obama decides to take it, or if he screws all those poor people......
Why should the GOP< which was elected to repeal Obamacare, roll over for Obama? Why should they save his ass? If he wants the subsidies to continue he will sign the GOP bill, which does that.You don't seem to understand....."If it gets killed it will be solely on Obama's hands" will not sell with the voters.
Anymore than the shutdowns. What you think does not matter. Only what the voters think counts.
Now if the GOP can show that modified tort reform and inter-state cooperatives have the votes, then the fix can be made, allowing states that want their own programs can have them.
The GOP is shooting themselves in the foot over this. They have no leverage.
The blue states have their own state plans so they aren't harmed if the SCOTUS sides with the GOP on this.
Obama doesn't have to compromise because the GOP are only hurting their own constituents if they don't provide a fix that Obama will sign.
The GOP has no wiggle room. They are in charge of both houses so they have it in their power to fix the problem themselves.
This isn't rocket science although there are any number of morons out there who don't get it.
The Republicans didn't create the problem, Obama and the Democrats did.....
And the lawsuit was filed by private citizens (not the Republicans), and supported by a DEMOCRAT Attorney General....
But the Republicans get to fix Obama's mess, and it's on Obama if he wants to screw all those people!!!!!!!!!!! After all, the Republicans can't fix Obama and the Democrat's screwup unless Obama goes along with it...
Mess?
Its only four words........would take them ten minutes
But they would rather deny subsidies to the citizens of Red States (as long as it would piss off Obama)
Actually they wil be helping citizens in every state, replacing a failed broken program with something much better.Why should the GOP< which was elected to repeal Obamacare, roll over for Obama? Why should they save his ass? If he wants the subsidies to continue he will sign the GOP bill, which does that.You don't seem to understand....."If it gets killed it will be solely on Obama's hands" will not sell with the voters.
Anymore than the shutdowns. What you think does not matter. Only what the voters think counts.
Now if the GOP can show that modified tort reform and inter-state cooperatives have the votes, then the fix can be made, allowing states that want their own programs can have them.
The GOP is shooting themselves in the foot over this. They have no leverage.
The blue states have their own state plans so they aren't harmed if the SCOTUS sides with the GOP on this.
Obama doesn't have to compromise because the GOP are only hurting their own constituents if they don't provide a fix that Obama will sign.
The GOP has no wiggle room. They are in charge of both houses so they have it in their power to fix the problem themselves.
This isn't rocket science although there are any number of morons out there who don't get it.
The Republicans didn't create the problem, Obama and the Democrats did.....
And the lawsuit was filed by private citizens (not the Republicans), and supported by a DEMOCRAT Attorney General....
But the Republicans get to fix Obama's mess, and it's on Obama if he wants to screw all those people!!!!!!!!!!! After all, the Republicans can't fix Obama and the Democrat's screwup unless Obama goes along with it...
Mess?
Its only four words........would take them ten minutes
But they would rather deny subsidies to the citizens of Red States (as long as it would piss off Obama)
Why should they "roll over" ??
This way they get to punish citizens in Red States....just to stick it to that Obama
does Koch brothers . Ring any bellsNo, the people that filed the lawsuit were private citizens (NOT CONGRESS OR "THE REPUBLICANS").....You don't seem to understand....."If it gets killed it will be solely on Obama's hands" will not sell with the voters.
Anymore than the shutdowns. What you think does not matter. Only what the voters think counts.
Now if the GOP can show that modified tort reform and inter-state cooperatives have the votes, then the fix can be made, allowing states that want their own programs can have them.
The GOP is shooting themselves in the foot over this. They have no leverage.
The blue states have their own state plans so they aren't harmed if the SCOTUS sides with the GOP on this.
Obama doesn't have to compromise because the GOP are only hurting their own constituents if they don't provide a fix that Obama will sign.
The GOP has no wiggle room. They are in charge of both houses so they have it in their power to fix the problem themselves.
This isn't rocket science although there are any number of morons out there who don't get it.
The Republicans didn't create the problem, Obama and the Democrats did.....
And the lawsuit was filed by private citizens (not the Republicans), and supported by a DEMOCRAT Attorney General....
But the Republicans get to fix Obama's mess, and it's on Obama if he wants to screw all those people!!!!!!!!!!! After all, the Republicans can't fix Obama and the Democrat's screwup unless Obama goes along with it...
It wasn't supporters of ObamaCare that filed the lawsuit so being disingenuous only harms your own credibility.
The damage to the GOP is self inflicted.
They have the power to apply a simple clean fix to the ACA.
If they choose not to do that then they deserve to lose the next election.
They can't blame that on anyone but themselves.
But they will try...just like you are doing.
So you are the one being disingenuous....
Unless you want to maintain that Obama should be impeached next time an individual commits a crime, there is no way you can hold the Republicans responsible for what some private citizens do.....
And Congress will come up with a fix for the ACA...... Let's just see if Obama decides to take it, or if he screws all those poor people......
Private citizens, but they're not footing the bill for the case. It's a combination of RW think tanks and gop pols pushing this. The attorneys are the same in all of the challenges, even those that Obama and the IRS won.
really what is this yet un named miracle that the gop will pull from their ass.?Actually they wil be helping citizens in every state, replacing a failed broken program with something much better.Why should the GOP< which was elected to repeal Obamacare, roll over for Obama? Why should they save his ass? If he wants the subsidies to continue he will sign the GOP bill, which does that.You don't seem to understand.....The GOP is shooting themselves in the foot over this. They have no leverage.
The blue states have their own state plans so they aren't harmed if the SCOTUS sides with the GOP on this.
Obama doesn't have to compromise because the GOP are only hurting their own constituents if they don't provide a fix that Obama will sign.
The GOP has no wiggle room. They are in charge of both houses so they have it in their power to fix the problem themselves.
This isn't rocket science although there are any number of morons out there who don't get it.
The Republicans didn't create the problem, Obama and the Democrats did.....
And the lawsuit was filed by private citizens (not the Republicans), and supported by a DEMOCRAT Attorney General....
But the Republicans get to fix Obama's mess, and it's on Obama if he wants to screw all those people!!!!!!!!!!! After all, the Republicans can't fix Obama and the Democrat's screwup unless Obama goes along with it...
Mess?
Its only four words........would take them ten minutes
But they would rather deny subsidies to the citizens of Red States (as long as it would piss off Obama)
Why should they "roll over" ??
This way they get to punish citizens in Red States....just to stick it to that Obama
Link on the financing?????No, the people that filed the lawsuit were private citizens (NOT CONGRESS OR "THE REPUBLICANS").....You don't seem to understand....."If it gets killed it will be solely on Obama's hands" will not sell with the voters.
Anymore than the shutdowns. What you think does not matter. Only what the voters think counts.
Now if the GOP can show that modified tort reform and inter-state cooperatives have the votes, then the fix can be made, allowing states that want their own programs can have them.
The GOP is shooting themselves in the foot over this. They have no leverage.
The blue states have their own state plans so they aren't harmed if the SCOTUS sides with the GOP on this.
Obama doesn't have to compromise because the GOP are only hurting their own constituents if they don't provide a fix that Obama will sign.
The GOP has no wiggle room. They are in charge of both houses so they have it in their power to fix the problem themselves.
This isn't rocket science although there are any number of morons out there who don't get it.
The Republicans didn't create the problem, Obama and the Democrats did.....
And the lawsuit was filed by private citizens (not the Republicans), and supported by a DEMOCRAT Attorney General....
But the Republicans get to fix Obama's mess, and it's on Obama if he wants to screw all those people!!!!!!!!!!! After all, the Republicans can't fix Obama and the Democrat's screwup unless Obama goes along with it...
It wasn't supporters of ObamaCare that filed the lawsuit so being disingenuous only harms your own credibility.
The damage to the GOP is self inflicted.
They have the power to apply a simple clean fix to the ACA.
If they choose not to do that then they deserve to lose the next election.
They can't blame that on anyone but themselves.
But they will try...just like you are doing.
So you are the one being disingenuous....
Unless you want to maintain that Obama should be impeached next time an individual commits a crime, there is no way you can hold the Republicans responsible for what some private citizens do.....
And Congress will come up with a fix for the ACA...... Let's just see if Obama decides to take it, or if he screws all those poor people......
Private citizens, but they're not footing the bill for the case. It's a combination of RW think tanks and gop pols pushing this. The attorneys are the same in all of the challenges, even those that Obama and the IRS won.
Obama would not sign a bill which has other changes to the law which are completely unnecessary to fix the subsidies. The GOP would like to add a bunch of poison pills to such a fix, and then they will act all indignant and self-righteous when Obama refuses to sign it.
The American people aren't stupid enough to fall for that bullshit, but the GOP is retarded enough to think they will. Just like they were retarded enough to believe they wouldn't get most of the blame for a government shutdown.
They just never learn! Which goes without saying for retards, really.
(cue doom music)
BREAKINGBOMBSHELLALERT! Obamaz fucking you in the ass! Grab your piss cups, and stay tuned for a refill.
Republicans can always shut down the government if Obama won't sign
Meanwhile, Obama could afford to wait. The Supreme Court decision would mostly affect those in stubborn Red States that refused to form exchanges....let them explain to their citizens why they lost out
They lost out because the idiot Dims wrote a shit bill. The folks will know exactly who to blame. This abortion is 100% on Obama, Reid, and Pelosi.
I absolutely agree. However, we live in a country where the folks don't know what they had for breakfast this morning (unless it's posted on twitter). People believe what the MSM (in the form of Yahoo news) tells them. They simply don't have the time (it takes time to play Call of Duty all day) to worry themselves with the future of the country.
hard boiled eggs here!Obama would not sign a bill which has other changes to the law which are completely unnecessary to fix the subsidies. The GOP would like to add a bunch of poison pills to such a fix, and then they will act all indignant and self-righteous when Obama refuses to sign it.
The American people aren't stupid enough to fall for that bullshit, but the GOP is retarded enough to think they will. Just like they were retarded enough to believe they wouldn't get most of the blame for a government shutdown.
They just never learn! Which goes without saying for retards, really.
(cue doom music)
BREAKINGBOMBSHELLALERT! Obamaz fucking you in the ass! Grab your piss cups, and stay tuned for a refill.
Republicans can always shut down the government if Obama won't sign
Meanwhile, Obama could afford to wait. The Supreme Court decision would mostly affect those in stubborn Red States that refused to form exchanges....let them explain to their citizens why they lost out
They lost out because the idiot Dims wrote a shit bill. The folks will know exactly who to blame. This abortion is 100% on Obama, Reid, and Pelosi.
I absolutely agree. However, we live in a country where the folks don't know what they had for breakfast this morning (unless it's posted on twitter). People believe what the MSM (in the form of Yahoo news) tells them. They simply don't have the time (it takes time to play Call of Duty all day) to worry themselves with the future of the country.
Granola with banana chips and 2% milk. And you're an idiot.
See? I remembered 2 things.
Is that it? Honestly, I'd forgotten. guess so.does Koch brothers . Ring any bellsNo, the people that filed the lawsuit were private citizens (NOT CONGRESS OR "THE REPUBLICANS").....You don't seem to understand.....The GOP is shooting themselves in the foot over this. They have no leverage.
The blue states have their own state plans so they aren't harmed if the SCOTUS sides with the GOP on this.
Obama doesn't have to compromise because the GOP are only hurting their own constituents if they don't provide a fix that Obama will sign.
The GOP has no wiggle room. They are in charge of both houses so they have it in their power to fix the problem themselves.
This isn't rocket science although there are any number of morons out there who don't get it.
The Republicans didn't create the problem, Obama and the Democrats did.....
And the lawsuit was filed by private citizens (not the Republicans), and supported by a DEMOCRAT Attorney General....
But the Republicans get to fix Obama's mess, and it's on Obama if he wants to screw all those people!!!!!!!!!!! After all, the Republicans can't fix Obama and the Democrat's screwup unless Obama goes along with it...
It wasn't supporters of ObamaCare that filed the lawsuit so being disingenuous only harms your own credibility.
The damage to the GOP is self inflicted.
They have the power to apply a simple clean fix to the ACA.
If they choose not to do that then they deserve to lose the next election.
They can't blame that on anyone but themselves.
But they will try...just like you are doing.
So you are the one being disingenuous....
Unless you want to maintain that Obama should be impeached next time an individual commits a crime, there is no way you can hold the Republicans responsible for what some private citizens do.....
And Congress will come up with a fix for the ACA...... Let's just see if Obama decides to take it, or if he screws all those poor people......
Private citizens, but they're not footing the bill for the case. It's a combination of RW think tanks and gop pols pushing this. The attorneys are the same in all of the challenges, even those that Obama and the IRS won.
Oh stop being a witch. The suits are not funded by the plaintiffs. You just make yourself look like a partisan stool. JFC. I don't even like Obamacare.No, the people that filed the lawsuit were private citizens (NOT CONGRESS OR "THE REPUBLICANS").....You don't seem to understand....."If it gets killed it will be solely on Obama's hands" will not sell with the voters.
Anymore than the shutdowns. What you think does not matter. Only what the voters think counts.
Now if the GOP can show that modified tort reform and inter-state cooperatives have the votes, then the fix can be made, allowing states that want their own programs can have them.
The GOP is shooting themselves in the foot over this. They have no leverage.
The blue states have their own state plans so they aren't harmed if the SCOTUS sides with the GOP on this.
Obama doesn't have to compromise because the GOP are only hurting their own constituents if they don't provide a fix that Obama will sign.
The GOP has no wiggle room. They are in charge of both houses so they have it in their power to fix the problem themselves.
This isn't rocket science although there are any number of morons out there who don't get it.
The Republicans didn't create the problem, Obama and the Democrats did.....
And the lawsuit was filed by private citizens (not the Republicans), and supported by a DEMOCRAT Attorney General....
But the Republicans get to fix Obama's mess, and it's on Obama if he wants to screw all those people!!!!!!!!!!! After all, the Republicans can't fix Obama and the Democrat's screwup unless Obama goes along with it...
It wasn't supporters of ObamaCare that filed the lawsuit so being disingenuous only harms your own credibility.
The damage to the GOP is self inflicted.
They have the power to apply a simple clean fix to the ACA.
If they choose not to do that then they deserve to lose the next election.
They can't blame that on anyone but themselves.
But they will try...just like you are doing.
So you are the one being disingenuous....
Unless you want to maintain that Obama should be impeached next time an individual commits a crime, there is no way you can hold the Republicans responsible for what some private citizens do.....
And Congress will come up with a fix for the ACA...... Let's just see if Obama decides to take it, or if he screws all those poor people......
The Koch brothers aren't in Congress or running for President, last time I checked.....Is that it? Honestly, I'd forgotten. guess so.does Koch brothers . Ring any bellsNo, the people that filed the lawsuit were private citizens (NOT CONGRESS OR "THE REPUBLICANS").....You don't seem to understand.....
The Republicans didn't create the problem, Obama and the Democrats did.....
And the lawsuit was filed by private citizens (not the Republicans), and supported by a DEMOCRAT Attorney General....
But the Republicans get to fix Obama's mess, and it's on Obama if he wants to screw all those people!!!!!!!!!!! After all, the Republicans can't fix Obama and the Democrat's screwup unless Obama goes along with it...
It wasn't supporters of ObamaCare that filed the lawsuit so being disingenuous only harms your own credibility.
The damage to the GOP is self inflicted.
They have the power to apply a simple clean fix to the ACA.
If they choose not to do that then they deserve to lose the next election.
They can't blame that on anyone but themselves.
But they will try...just like you are doing.
So you are the one being disingenuous....
Unless you want to maintain that Obama should be impeached next time an individual commits a crime, there is no way you can hold the Republicans responsible for what some private citizens do.....
And Congress will come up with a fix for the ACA...... Let's just see if Obama decides to take it, or if he screws all those poor people......
Private citizens, but they're not footing the bill for the case. It's a combination of RW think tanks and gop pols pushing this. The attorneys are the same in all of the challenges, even those that Obama and the IRS won.
The Kochs Take on Obamacare Again Z e t e o
LOL. Not surprising.
hard boiled eggs here!Obama would not sign a bill which has other changes to the law which are completely unnecessary to fix the subsidies. The GOP would like to add a bunch of poison pills to such a fix, and then they will act all indignant and self-righteous when Obama refuses to sign it.
The American people aren't stupid enough to fall for that bullshit, but the GOP is retarded enough to think they will. Just like they were retarded enough to believe they wouldn't get most of the blame for a government shutdown.
They just never learn! Which goes without saying for retards, really.
(cue doom music)
BREAKINGBOMBSHELLALERT! Obamaz fucking you in the ass! Grab your piss cups, and stay tuned for a refill.
Republicans can always shut down the government if Obama won't sign
Meanwhile, Obama could afford to wait. The Supreme Court decision would mostly affect those in stubborn Red States that refused to form exchanges....let them explain to their citizens why they lost out
They lost out because the idiot Dims wrote a shit bill. The folks will know exactly who to blame. This abortion is 100% on Obama, Reid, and Pelosi.
I absolutely agree. However, we live in a country where the folks don't know what they had for breakfast this morning (unless it's posted on twitter). People believe what the MSM (in the form of Yahoo news) tells them. They simply don't have the time (it takes time to play Call of Duty all day) to worry themselves with the future of the country.
Granola with banana chips and 2% milk. And you're an idiot.
See? I remembered 2 things.
come on. Stop the bs. The lawsuits are bought and paid for by RW billionaires and fueled by gop pols. Just accept and live with REALITYThe Koch brothers aren't in Congress or running for President, last time I checked.....Is that it? Honestly, I'd forgotten. guess so.does Koch brothers . Ring any bellsNo, the people that filed the lawsuit were private citizens (NOT CONGRESS OR "THE REPUBLICANS").....It wasn't supporters of ObamaCare that filed the lawsuit so being disingenuous only harms your own credibility.
The damage to the GOP is self inflicted.
They have the power to apply a simple clean fix to the ACA.
If they choose not to do that then they deserve to lose the next election.
They can't blame that on anyone but themselves.
But they will try...just like you are doing.
So you are the one being disingenuous....
Unless you want to maintain that Obama should be impeached next time an individual commits a crime, there is no way you can hold the Republicans responsible for what some private citizens do.....
And Congress will come up with a fix for the ACA...... Let's just see if Obama decides to take it, or if he screws all those poor people......
Private citizens, but they're not footing the bill for the case. It's a combination of RW think tanks and gop pols pushing this. The attorneys are the same in all of the challenges, even those that Obama and the IRS won.
The Kochs Take on Obamacare Again Z e t e o
LOL. Not surprising.
Gee, can we impeach Obama and throw Hillary out of the race since Soros is a convicted felon?????
http://www.nytimes.com/2006/06/14/business/worldbusiness/14iht-soros.1974397.html?_r=0
PARIS — The highest court in France on Wednesday rejected a bid by George Soros, the billionaire investor, to overturn a conviction for insider trading in a case dating back nearly 20 years, leaving the first blemish on his five-decade investing career.
The panel, the Cour de Cassation, upheld the conviction of Soros, 75, an American citizen, for buying and selling Société Générale shares in 1988 after receiving information about a planned corporate raid on the bank.
Ron Soffer, his lawyer, said Soros planned to take the case to the European Court of Human Rights, saying that the length of the proceedings had prevented his client from having a fair trial.
"The investigation started in 1989," he said. "The appeals trial occurred in 2004. How can you call witnesses and ask them about what happened in 1988?" The French stock market regulatory authority investigated the matter separately and concluded that Soros had not violated the law or any ethical rules, Soffer said.
The French authorities have not yet determined what fine Soros will pay.
In a March 2005 ruling, a French appeals court confirmed a fine of €2.2 million, or $2.8 billion, set by a lower court for the illegal purchase of 95,000 shares in Société Générale. The Cour de Cassation ruled that the fine would be adjusted to reflect Soros' profits, and it ordered the case returned to the appeals court to clarify the amount.
You far right reactionaries don't seem to get the point: it's four words. It's not a hard fix. And the electorate WILL blame the GOP if it does not get fixed.
You hardliners don't get it: most of America really dislikes the far right. The electorate dislikes you more than Obama.
Guess who it gets blamed?
Given that they have had six years to propose something better and have yet to do so...I will have to call bullshitActually they wil be helping citizens in every state, replacing a failed broken program with something much better.Why should the GOP< which was elected to repeal Obamacare, roll over for Obama? Why should they save his ass? If he wants the subsidies to continue he will sign the GOP bill, which does that.You don't seem to understand.....The GOP is shooting themselves in the foot over this. They have no leverage.
The blue states have their own state plans so they aren't harmed if the SCOTUS sides with the GOP on this.
Obama doesn't have to compromise because the GOP are only hurting their own constituents if they don't provide a fix that Obama will sign.
The GOP has no wiggle room. They are in charge of both houses so they have it in their power to fix the problem themselves.
This isn't rocket science although there are any number of morons out there who don't get it.
The Republicans didn't create the problem, Obama and the Democrats did.....
And the lawsuit was filed by private citizens (not the Republicans), and supported by a DEMOCRAT Attorney General....
But the Republicans get to fix Obama's mess, and it's on Obama if he wants to screw all those people!!!!!!!!!!! After all, the Republicans can't fix Obama and the Democrat's screwup unless Obama goes along with it...
Mess?
Its only four words........would take them ten minutes
But they would rather deny subsidies to the citizens of Red States (as long as it would piss off Obama)
Why should they "roll over" ??
This way they get to punish citizens in Red States....just to stick it to that Obama
Once again....the GOP choices are:You far right reactionaries don't seem to get the point: it's four words. It's not a hard fix. And the electorate WILL blame the GOP if it does not get fixed.
You hardliners don't get it: most of America really dislikes the far right. The electorate dislikes you more than Obama.
Guess who it gets blamed?
