Obamacare has Death Panels

[PredFan]

Of course it has death panels. We said it would and since we base our statements on facts, logic, and knowledge, we are usually right.

Except you folks are dead wrong.


The Facts About the Independent Payment Advisory Board

Here’s how IPAB works:

• 15 experts including doctors and patient advocates would be nominated by the President and confirmed by the Senate to serve on IPAB.

• IPAB would recommend policies to Congress to help Medicare provide better care at lower costs. This could include ideas on coordinating care, getting rid of waste in the system, incentivizing best practices, and prioritizing primary care.

• IPAB is specifically prohibited by law from recommending any policies that ration care, raise taxes, increase premiums or cost-sharing, restrict benefits or modify who is eligible for Medicare.

• Congress then has the power to accept or reject these recommendations. If Congress rejects the recommendations, and Medicare spending exceeds specific targets, Congress must either enact policies that achieve equivalent savings or let the Secretary of Health and Human Services follow IPAB’s recommendations.

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Sure, it has those powers, and it will have to power to deny coverage to people. It will be a death panel. That's only common sense.

 

[g5000]

"The IPAB is essentially a health-care rationing body. By setting doctor reimbursement rates for medicare and determing which procedures and drugs will be covered and at what price, the IPAB will be able to stop certain treatments its members do not favor by simply setting rates to levels where no doctor or hospital will perform them.

---Howard Dean, former DNC Chair (7/29/2013)

Looks like another broken promise. What do we do now?

Without coming out and calling them death panels, Howard Dean expressed the same exact concern that Palin did.

I see what you did there. Trying to rehabilitate the airhead Palin.

Palin's "death panels" were the doctor-patient visits written into ObamaCare that would be paid for by health insurance so the patient could discuss end of life care with their physician.

Yes, Palin really is that stupid.

The left is quick to dismiss the fact that government bureaucrats will act as death panels, for all intent and purposes. What they will do is deny treatment by making certain treatments too expensive.

I would like to see evidence for this plan.

If you had said that the government health insurance plan would do the exact same thing private health insurance does, I would be with you. But you would have to retroactively call all private insurance underwriters in the history of insurance "death panels".

But you have gone further than that. You are claiming the Left is purposely working to make certain treatments too expensive.

So I would like to see evidence of that.

Which treatments, and how they will go about making them more expensive?

 

[bendog]

you know they'll withold effective, life saving treatments, and just let otherwise heatlhy Americans, mostly conservitives, DIE. It's what they do.

 

[Bfgrn]

Of course it has death panels. We said it would and since we base our statements on facts, logic, and knowledge, we are usually right.

Except you folks are dead wrong.


The Facts About the Independent Payment Advisory Board

Here’s how IPAB works:

• 15 experts including doctors and patient advocates would be nominated by the President and confirmed by the Senate to serve on IPAB.

• IPAB would recommend policies to Congress to help Medicare provide better care at lower costs. This could include ideas on coordinating care, getting rid of waste in the system, incentivizing best practices, and prioritizing primary care.

• IPAB is specifically prohibited by law from recommending any policies that ration care, raise taxes, increase premiums or cost-sharing, restrict benefits or modify who is eligible for Medicare.

• Congress then has the power to accept or reject these recommendations. If Congress rejects the recommendations, and Medicare spending exceeds specific targets, Congress must either enact policies that achieve equivalent savings or let the Secretary of Health and Human Services follow IPAB’s recommendations.

more

Sure, it has those powers, and it will have to power to deny coverage to people. It will be a death panel. That's only common sense.

What part don't you understand?
IPAB is specifically prohibited by law from recommending any policies that ration care, raise taxes, increase premiums or cost-sharing, restrict benefits or modify who is eligible for Medicare.

 

[g5000]

Sure, it has those powers, and it will have to power to deny coverage to people. It will be a death panel. That's only common sense.

Please explain how a private insurance underwriter is not a death panel while a government one is. Please explain how a government insurance plan can function without underwriting the way private insurance does. What magical new reform would you expect from government health insurance to replace insurance underwriting procedures that have been around for centuries?

 

[Antares]

Now first, let's be clear about why Palin called it that. She did not claim that a line item in the law convenes a hooded panel to sit and pronounce death on people. What she said was that the IPAB, with its power to set rates, would be able to effectively price certain treatments and services out of existence, at least for most people. And the power to do this would serve as an effective death penalty for an awful lot of people.

You realize Palin's Facebook post coining the phrase is still accessible, right?

The America I know and love is not one in which my parents or my baby with Down Syndrome will have to stand in front of Obama’s “death panel” so his bureaucrats can decide, based on a subjective judgment of their “level of productivity in society,” whether they are worthy of health care. Such a system is downright evil.

Ole Mr. Dean is telling you what they will be used for old man....considering your usefulness is almost nil will the be deciding to stop whatever treatment you may be needing?

 

[g5000]

PANEL: We have determined this sugar pill is completely useless for treating cancer, and so we will not reimburse any doctor who prescribes it.

RUBE: You see?!? Death panel!!!!!

 

[bendog]

PANEL: We have determined this sugar pill is completely useless for treating cancer.

RUBE: Death panel!!!!!

Exactly. This entire utilization review thing with Johns Hopkins rating the effectiveness of various treatments has just not worked out. Our life expectencies can only be protected if we end all govt interference in the healthcare marketplace and go back to buying care with chickens

 

[Antares]

Of course it has death panels. We said it would and since we base our statements on facts, logic, and knowledge, we are usually right.

Except you folks are dead wrong.


The Facts About the Independent Payment Advisory Board

Here’s how IPAB works:

• 15 experts including doctors and patient advocates would be nominated by the President and confirmed by the Senate to serve on IPAB.

• IPAB would recommend policies to Congress to help Medicare provide better care at lower costs. This could include ideas on coordinating care, getting rid of waste in the system, incentivizing best practices, and prioritizing primary care.

• IPAB is specifically prohibited by law from recommending any policies that ration care, raise taxes, increase premiums or cost-sharing, restrict benefits or modify who is eligible for Medicare.

• Congress then has the power to accept or reject these recommendations. If Congress rejects the recommendations, and Medicare spending exceeds specific targets, Congress must either enact policies that achieve equivalent savings or let the Secretary of Health and Human Services follow IPAB’s recommendations.

more

IPAB is specifically prohibited by law from recommending any policies that ration care, raise taxes, increase premiums or cost-sharing, restrict benefits or modify who is eligible for Medicare.

Nothing prohibits them from deciding that care is unneccessary.....but you are too stupid to understand that.

 

[R.C. Christian]

Total Pubcrappe, hater dupes.

BTW, your doctors, family, and an end of life counsellor with no power is not a death panel either, just actual common sense....

You suck so much that a black hole is forming above your house.

 

[R.C. Christian]

Let's simplify this: How many of you scumbags will go on record as supporting the euthanasia of people considered too old, or too costly to treat. Put up or shut up.

 

[bendog]

Yes, they can decide a specific treatment is unnecessary. But there is this thing called DUE PROCESS, and it requires the govt have a rational reason for concluding such, and "arbitrary or capricious" decisions are illegal under medicare and medicaid, and have been so for ABOUT 50 FREAKING YEARS.

Do you people take some drug causeing paranoia or something. LOL Good drugs prevent this.

 

[Greenbeard]

Can we take a take a minute to remember that Medicare per-beneficiary cost growth is the lowest it's ever been (0.4% in 2012)?

The IPAB (which doesn't actually exist at this point, as no one's been nominated to serve on it) isn't empowered to do anything when Medicare cost growth is so low.

Once a year Center for Medicare and Medicaid Services’ Office of the Actuary must look at five years of Medicare growth, both real and projected. If the average exceeds the average of the a modified version of the Consumer Price Index (CPI) over that same period, the actuary then calculates how much the IPAB must cut Medicare to make that target.. This year’s report, issued late Tuesday, was the first, and Acting Chief Actuary Paul Spitalnic announced that Medicare growth fell below the CPI target.

“The projected 5-year average growth in Medicare per capita spending is 1.15 percent, and the 5-year average growth target is 3.03 percent,” Spitalnic wrote. “Because the projected 5-year Medicare per capita growth rate does not exceed the Medicare per capita target growth rate, there is no applicable savings target for implementation year 2015 (determination year 2013).”

 

[Antares]

Sure, it has those powers, and it will have to power to deny coverage to people. It will be a death panel. That's only common sense.

Please explain how a private insurance underwriter is not a death panel while a government one is. Please explain how a government insurance plan can function without underwriting the way private insurance does. What magical new reform would you expect from government health insurance to replace insurance underwriting procedures that have been around for centuries?

What a maroon.

You don't know shit about insurance.

There are TWO relevant sections within an insurance policy, the Declaration Page which says what they WILL do, and the exclusion page which says what they WON'T do.

NO company can DENY any treatment unless stipulated by the Policy OR fraud has been committed by the insurered in a non disclosure sense.

 

[bendog]

Let's simplify this: How many of you scumbags will go on record as supporting the euthanasia of people considered too old, or too costly to treat. Put up or shut up.

Perhaps if you found one rational fact to support how this could happen, that is not a fantasy lurking in your obviously unhinged mind, it would help.

 

[g5000]

Total Pubcrappe, hater dupes.

BTW, your doctors, family, and an end of life counsellor with no power is not a death panel either, just actual common sense....

You suck so much that a black hole is forming above your house.

I believe he was making a reference to the original "death panel" made popular by fools like Sarah Palin.

The provision that reimbursed doctors for providing end of life counselling for seniors.

Because of the fools like Sarah Palin, that provision was removed from the ACA. So now seniors must continue to pay out of pocket for end of life counselling.

 

[bendog]

Sure, it has those powers, and it will have to power to deny coverage to people. It will be a death panel. That's only common sense.

Please explain how a private insurance underwriter is not a death panel while a government one is. Please explain how a government insurance plan can function without underwriting the way private insurance does. What magical new reform would you expect from government health insurance to replace insurance underwriting procedures that have been around for centuries?

What a maroon.

You don't know shit about insurance.

There are TWO relevant sections within an insurance policy, the Declaration Page which says what they WILL do, and the exclusion page which says what they WON'T do.

NO company can DENY any treatment unless stipulated by the Policy OR fraud has been committed by the insurered in a non disclosure sense.

That is total bs. Your insurance company can deny ANY TREATMENT if it can rationally demonstrate a different, cheaper, treatment is equally effective in treating a covered med condition. That's HC 101.

 

[g5000]

Let's simplify this: How many of you scumbags will go on record as supporting the euthanasia of people considered too old, or too costly to treat. Put up or shut up.

You won't find anyone who will agree to this incredible strawman you have constructed in your mind.

 

[g5000]

Sure, it has those powers, and it will have to power to deny coverage to people. It will be a death panel. That's only common sense.

Please explain how a private insurance underwriter is not a death panel while a government one is. Please explain how a government insurance plan can function without underwriting the way private insurance does. What magical new reform would you expect from government health insurance to replace insurance underwriting procedures that have been around for centuries?

What a maroon.

You don't know shit about insurance.

There are TWO relevant sections within an insurance policy, the Declaration Page which says what they WILL do, and the exclusion page which says what they WON'T do.

NO company can DENY any treatment unless stipulated by the Policy OR fraud has been committed by the insurered in a non disclosure sense.

Wow. I guess you thought big red letters were evidence!

Your insurance company is not going to pay for treatments which have no efficacy. That's a simple fact. And that is what you rubes are calling "death panels" when the government takes the exact same common sense approach.

 

[Antares]

Sure, it has those powers, and it will have to power to deny coverage to people. It will be a death panel. That's only common sense.

Please explain how a private insurance underwriter is not a death panel while a government one is. Please explain how a government insurance plan can function without underwriting the way private insurance does. What magical new reform would you expect from government health insurance to replace insurance underwriting procedures that have been around for centuries?

(sigh) I'll go VERY slowly for you.......

The IPAB board can and is empowered to make decisions insitu DURING the course of treatment at will...an underwriter cannot UNLESS fraud has been committed.