Occupation 101

[Marc39]

The ignorant Arab wasn't even clever enough to figure out he had oil under his own feet. The infidel US oil companies had to show them.

Indeed! And I extend this to say that if we allow any movement that turns the West into Democratic apologists for their modernity rather than staunch Republican advocates for the West's true strengths, then we are walking backwards. Those such as the one we were speaking of are the ones who would have kept America out of World War II until too late.

They are still here today and are still as lost as they were in thirty nine.

The Arab and the Muslim worlds will never transition out of the Middle Ages and into modernity because their allah does not will them to do so.

An old Arab proverb is "Knowledge is infidelity" [to allah] which has doomed their backward culture.

 

[Ropey]

The Arab and the Muslim worlds will never transition out of the Middle Ages and into modernity because their allah does not will them to do so.

An old Arab proverb is "Knowledge is infidelity" [to allah] which has doomed their backward culture.

Ah, but can we drag them into civility? That's the question. They will not do it on their own for certain, but possibly our Diaspora can help a transition of their people when the ME is no longer able to support their massive populations with external shipping of both water and food.

In a short twenty years this natural effect will be undeniable. Israel has desalination technology that it shares with both Jordan and Egypt, so they will be far better off. Otherwise, it's a trouble in the making. Regional peace would help these backward countries to move forward.

I see more death due to Muslim inaction with regards to helping their own survive. Nature will do more for Muslim kill ratios than Israel's tactical nuclear reduced yield nukes.

But the Muslims do not see that the longer they fight and forgo true peace talks, the closer they come to their own dissolution. The dissolution of those who suffer great effects of the thousands of generation's who suffer the effects of Muslim inbreeding.

But no one will even admit to such a thing. That's what is truly amazing.

 

[Marc39]

The Arab and the Muslim worlds will never transition out of the Middle Ages and into modernity because their allah does not will them to do so.

An old Arab proverb is "Knowledge is infidelity" [to allah] which has doomed their backward culture.

Ah, but can we drag them into civility? That's the question. They will not do it on their own for certain, but possibly our Diaspora can help a transition of their people when the ME is no longer able to support their massive populations with external shipping of both water and food.

In a short twenty years this natural effect will be undeniable. Israel has desalination technology that it shares with both Jordan and Egypt, so they will be far better off. Otherwise, it's a trouble in the making. Regional peace would help these backward countries to move forward.

I see more death due to Muslim inaction with regards to helping their own survive. Nature will do more for Muslim kill ratios than Israel's tactical nuclear reduced yield nukes.

But the Muslims do not see that the longer they fight and forgo true peace talks, the closer they come to their own dissolution. The dissolution of those who suffer great effects of the thousands of generation's who suffer the effects of Muslim inbreeding.

But no one will even admit to such a thing. That's what is truly amazing.

The Islamic world cannot be dragged into modernity, for the most part, because Islamic doctrine opposes all non-Muslims. The basis of Islam is dar al-Islam dar al-Harb, House of Islam House of War that dictates all Muslims must be in a perpetual state of war with the House of War until the House of War is defeated and all kafirs [non-Muslims] are in the House of Islam, whether voluntarily or by force.

Islam is Arabic for "submission" and is antithetical to a democratic state, which is why there are virtually no democracies among nearly 60 Islamic countries.

 

[Marc39]

But the Muslims do not see that the longer they fight and forgo true peace talks, the closer they come to their own dissolution. The dissolution of those who suffer great effects of the thousands of generation's who suffer the effects of Muslim inbreeding.

Islam is an ideology of suffering. Islam is an illness.

Ayatollah Khomeini...

Allah did not create man so that he could have fun. The aim of creation was for mankind to be put to the test through hardship and prayer. An Islamic regime must be serious in every field. There are no jokes in Islam. There is no humor in Islam. There is no fun in Islam. There can be no fun and joy in whatever is serious.

 

[Ropey]

Possibly so. I believe that the exercise in humanity that is called Democracy will overthrow all fanatic ideologies. It will come from without, not within. But the source will have to be smashed for the Diaspora to bring a modernity to the book. Remember that the changes to the Christian doctrine has been changed by external influences. Possibly Islam will also make these changes.

I am not saying this will happen, but it is entirely possible 'if' the source is moderated.

It worked for Germany and Japan and they were fanatic ideologies. Will it work for Islam? I don't know, but I do think that it's their only chance at civility and modernity.

If one could purchase civility, then Saudi Arabia would be a civil country. It can't be bought. It must be learned. From where? The backs of governing rather than ruling are the instigators of civility.

But the Muslims do not see that the longer they fight and forgo true peace talks, the closer they come to their own dissolution. The dissolution of those who suffer great effects of the thousands of generation's who suffer the effects of Muslim inbreeding.

Islam is an ideology of suffering. Islam is an illness.

Ayatollah Khomeini...

Allah did not create man so that he could have fun. The aim of creation was for mankind to be put to the test through hardship and prayer. An Islamic regime must be serious in every field. There are no jokes in Islam. There is no humor in Islam. There is no fun in Islam. There can be no fun and joy in whatever is serious.

 

[P F Tinmore]

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=evE5yyRF5U0[/ame]

http://www.usmessageboard.com/israel-and-palestine/134774-sleepless-in-gaza-and-jerusalem.html

 

[Marc39]

Possibly so. I believe that the exercise in humanity that is called Democracy will overthrow all fanatic ideologies. It will come from without, not within. But the source will have to be smashed for the Diaspora to bring a modernity to the book. Remember that the changes to the Christian doctrine has been changed by external influences. Possibly Islam will also make these changes.

No Islamic democracy has ever existed in 1400 years. Turkey came close, but, has become radicalized since AKP came to power.

In Islam, allah is the head of state and shariah law, which is based on the Quran, governs the Islamic state, known as a caliphate. The last such caliphate was the Ottoman Empire ruled by the Sultanate

Thus, Islam is inherently opposed to a pluralistic democracy that is based on freedom

 

[Marc39]

t worked for Germany and Japan and they were fanatic ideologies. Will it work for Islam? I don't know, but I do think that it's their only chance at civility and modernity.

Muslims say they are backward because it is willed by allah. If allah wants them to be successful, allah will do so.

How do you even deal with such an irrational belief system?

 

[Marc39]

sleepless-in-gaza

Khaled Abu Toameh: Hamas's Siege Of Gaza

As Israeli naval commandos raided the flotilla ship convoy that was on its way to the Gaza Strip, Hamas security officers stormed the offices of five non-governmental organizations, confiscated equipment and documents, and ordered them closed indefinitely. Ever since it seized control over the Gaza Strip in the summer of 2007, Hamas has imposed a reign of terror on the local population in general and its critics in particular. Hamas has brought nothing to the Palestinians in the Gaza Strip other than death and disaster.

The raid on the NGOs in the Gaza Strip, which received little coverage in the media, is seen by many Palestinians as part of Hamas's ongoing crackdown on political opponents and human rights organizations. Further, Hamas's recent decision to ban municipal elections in the Gaza Strip is yet another violation of one of the basic rights of its constituents. Hundreds of Palestinians have been arrested by Hamas's security forces for daring to speak out against the state of tyranny and intimidation in the Gaza Strip. Over the past three years, dozens of Fatah officials and members have either been thrown into prison or killed. Under Hamas, the Gaza Strip is being transformed into a fundamentalist Islamic entity resembling the regimes of the Ayatollahs in Iran and the Taliban in Afghanistan.

While there is no ignoring the fact that Hamas originally came to power in a free and democratic election in January 2006, this does not give the movement the right to impose a social, intellectual, political and economic blockade on the Palestinians in the Gaza Strip. Instead of searching for ways to improve the living conditions of the 1.5 million Palestinians of the Gaza Strip, Hamas is busy enforcing strict Islamic rules on the population, such as Hamas policemen, for example, often stopping men and women who are seen together in public to inquire about the nature of their relationship. Hamas could have, for instance, accepted the international community's demand to renounce terrorism and honor all previous agreements signed between the Palestinians and Israel. Moreover, it could have allowed representatives of the International Committee of the Red Cross to visit Schalit. Hamas, however, is more interested in clinging to power than in serving its people; and in light of increased calls for lifting the blockade following the flotilla incident at sea, the movement's leaders in Syria and the Gaza Strip are now convinced that they are marching in the right direction.

The flotilla incident came at a time when Hamas appeared to be losing its popularity among Palestinians, largely due to the deteriorating economic situation in the Gaza Strip. It also came at a time when even some of Hamas's supporters were beginning to criticize the movement, especially over its decision to demolish scores of "illegal" houses in the southern Gaza Strip and the execution of criminals and "collaborators" with Israel. It is one thing to help the Palestinians in the Gaza Strip, but it is another thing to help Hamas. Those who wish to deliver aid to the Palestinians in the Gaza Strip can always find better and safer ways to do so - either through Israel or Egypt. But those who only seek confrontation with Israel in the sea are only emboldening Hamas and helping it tighten its grip on the people of Gaza Strip.

Internation Musing: Istanbul, Amsterdam, Delhi, Portland, Utrecht, The Hague and Thessaloniki.: What About Hamas's Siege of Gaza? (by Khaled Abu Toameh)

 

[Ropey]

How do you even deal with such an irrational belief system?

In the same way we have dealt with previous irrational belief systems. History repeats and if it repeats again, then we have already won, by the very nature of the fight finally being taken up to its fullness.

America is known to do the right thing in the end. They never do it until there seems to be no other choice.

I stand to history. It's my only method of possible projection of future prognostications. Islam does not have the luxury of growing into modernity otherwise.

So, both our views are arguable. The future will show if the historical precepts are correct. That being said, political correctness and Democracies inability to quickly respond to silent sedition will make this path longer than one might like. But the path will continue if history is any judge.

 

[Marc39]

How do you even deal with such an irrational belief system?

In the same way we have dealt with previous irrational belief systems. History repeats and if it repeats again, then we have already won, by the very nature of the fight finally being taken up to its fullness.

Islam is sui generis as a belief system. It can only be changed from within and this is unlikely to happen.

 

[Ropey]

Islam is sui generis as a belief system. It can only be changed from within and this is unlikely to happen.

The definitive word is "unlikely" and I agree. But if the source is smashed and the external influences are brought in (a la Germany and Japan) when the war comes, then it is possible, however unlikely. The war comes to the arena because Iran will not back down. They wish to usher in the Twelfth Imam and believe that they can hasten his return. All one has to do is read Ahmadinejad's prefaces to any UN speech he gives to understand what he wants to 'hasten'.

 

[mdn2000]

Nothing says it better than Facts and Logic, I wonder if anyone can find an error or lie, I see this article as historical fact.

F L A M E : The Big Lie (I): Are the "occupied territories" really occupied territories?

A Brief History: Most of the area now called the Middle East was part of the Ottoman (Turkish) Empire before World War I. Germany lost the war and so did its ally Turkey. The Ottoman Empire ceased to exist and the League of Nations assigned Britain and France as the mandatory powers.

France assumed mandatory control over what is now Syria and Lebanon. Britain assumed mandatory control over all the rest, including "Palestine," which comprised all that is now Jordan and Israel, including the "West Bank." The Golan Heights, which Syria now claims as its age-old patrimony, was originally part of Palestine.

In 1917, the British issued the Balfour Declaration, under which Palestine was to be the homeland for the Jewish people. In 1921,Winston Churchill, who was then Colonial Secretary of Great Britain, separated all the land east of the Jordan River from the territory designated to be the Jewish homeland, and awarded it to the Hashemites, who established the kingdom of Transjordan.

The Arabs, whipped up by their fanatic clergy, fiercely opposed the presence of the Jews on what they considered "sacred Moslem territory." There was constant warfare between the two groups, which the British tried to arbitrate, always favoring the Arabs, whom they considered more important to their imperial interests.

In 1947, the British decided that they had enough and resigned the Mandate. They left the Arab-Jewish antagonists to their own devices and turned it over to the United Nations. Their solution was to partition Palestine into a Jewish and an Arab state. The area west of the Jordan River (the "West Bank") and the Gaza Strip were allotted to the Arabs. Jerusalem was to be an "international" zone. After much soul searching, the Jews accepted the partition and, in April 1948, declared their independence in the area allotted to them by the partition. The Arabs rejected the partition out of hand. On the very day of Israel's birth, five Arab armies invaded the nascent Jewish State. In what must be considered an almost Biblical miracle, the rag-tag Jewish forces decisively defeated the combined Arab might. But Israel had suffered enormous casualties - 6,000 dead, about one percent of its population.

Israel not an "occupier:" Israel stayed in control of most of the area west of the Jordan River, except for the Gaza Strip, which stayed under Egyptian control. The "West Bank" and the eastern part of Jerusalem stayed under the control of Transjordan, which promptly renamed itself Jordan and proceeded to ruthlessly expel all Jews and to obliterate all vestiges of over 2,000 years of Jewish presence in that land.

In the 1967 Six-Day War, Israel recovered the "West Bank," the eastern part of Jerusalem, the Gaza Strip, conquered Egypt's Sinai Peninsula, and conquered and annexed the Golan Heights. During the 19 years that Jordan and Egypt were in possession of the "West Bank" and the Gaza Strip, it didn't occur to them or to anybody else that the Palestinians should have a state or even that they were a distinct nationality. The claim for that did not arise until after the Six-Day War.

Jews have been living in Judea/Samaria since Biblical times. The area was made judenrein (free of Jews), following the Nazi model, by Jordan, when it was in possession of the territory. After 1967, Jews moved back into the territory and a great hullabaloo was raised and is still being raised about the not more than 200,000 "settlers," who do not occupy more than 2 percent of the area. But there is no concern about the hundreds of thousands of Arabs, who, lured by the prosperity of Israel, have flooded into the area, nor of the more than one million Arabs who live in Israel proper and who enjoy full rights of citizenship

 

[georgephillip]

Did you forget the Green Line?

You also missed the population numbers in 1948 Mandate Palestine.

About 1.35 million Arabs and 650,000 Jews.

One person; one vote?

No Jewish homeland in the heart of Arab oil.

 

[Ropey]

This was not put to population or popular vote. Why? Because there were no countries in that Partition and as such, no votes were considered necessary. No Democracy was instituted at the time so such a view comes in retrospect and is useless in dealing with the reality that is here today.

Palestinians are no different genetically than any of the other Arabians in Lebanon, Syria or Jordan. Why these ones who are no different than those ones need a homeland on the tiny one and a half percent of land that is Israel in comparison to the 98.85 percent that was Palestine and which was awarded to the Arabians.

They want the one and a half percent that they don't have? The "Right of Return" is an Arabian method to strangle the Democracy of Israel. It is clear. Palestine was administered by Great Britain under the Mandate until forty six when Trans Jordan was granted independence. In one fell swoop, sovereignty in eighty percent of Palestine had been awarded to the Arabian. Israel was created by the United Nations by vote. The British Mandate had already been dissolved. The British Mandate CREATED Jordan with almost eighty percent of the land called Palestine. Why was an "A Rub Dynasty" given almost the entirety of the "Palestinian" land? Should it be taken back George? On November forty seven the United Nations recommended that both a Jewish State and an Arabian (not Palestinian) State be created in the remainder of the Mandated territory west of the Jordan River, and that Jerusalem be internationalized. Even though this was dramatically favorable to the A Rub, the Joe accepted the proposal. The A Rub rejected it as they wanted it all.

You also missed the population numbers in 1948 Mandate Palestine.

About 1.35 million Arabs and 650,000 Jews.

One person; one vote?

No Jewish homeland in the heart of Arab oil.

 

[Ropey]

The Palestinians are an itinerant people who had the chance for a country over sixty years ago at the same time my people were offered a country. The foolish Arabians thought they could delete all of the country and the people. They found just the opposite and for sixty years they have been no better than beggars. Their children's, children's children have grown up to extremist ideology and begging. They have gained nothing and lost many lives. They will continue in this vein until the next great globally encompassing war at which time Iran, Hamas AND Hezbollah will be dealt with. The world will be far too concerned with defeating terror (of which Hamas as a proxy of Iran IS KNOWN to be a functioning terror organization by the rest of the free and civilized world. Yes, the foolish, childlike Palestinians will never give up a chance to give up a chance for peace. I have personally given up on these people ever finding a peace since they can not even stop killing each other. Pitiful!

 

[Ropey]

No Jewish homeland in the heart of Arab oil.

There's no heart of Arabian oil in Israel, Syria, Jordan, Egypt or Lebanon.

 

[Marc39]

Did you forget the Green Line?

You also missed the population numbers in 1948 Mandate Palestine.

About 1.35 million Arabs and 650,000 Jews.

One person; one vote?

The Arabs owned virtually no land in the Ottoman Empire, under Turkish sovereignty, and had no vote.

Sovereignty over Judea was transferred after WW I from the Ottoman Turks to the Jews via the Treaty of Sevres and the San Remo Resolution.

Jews had no vote when 99.9% of the Ottoman Empire was given to the Arabs.

No wonder you have zero reputational points.

 

[hipeter924]

The Palestinians are an itinerant people who had the chance for a country over sixty years ago at the same time my people were offered a country. The foolish Arabians thought they could delete all of the country and the people. They found just the opposite and for sixty years they have been no better than beggars. Their children's, children's children have grown up to extremist ideology and begging. They have gained nothing and lost many lives. They will continue in this vein until the next great globally encompassing war at which time Iran, Hamas AND Hezbollah will be dealt with. The world will be far too concerned with defeating terror (of which Hamas as a proxy of Iran IS KNOWN to be a functioning terror organization by the rest of the free and civilized world. Yes, the foolish, childlike Palestinians will never give up a chance to give up a chance for peace. I have personally given up on these people ever finding a peace since they can not even stop killing each other. Pitiful!

They can't change because they are brainwashed, and yes the Palestinians should be pitied, their Imams tell they day after day the Jews are source of all their problems, and call on them to kill the Jews. The leaders of Hamas or Fatah are not interested in creating a state, that is just a cover story, they are nothing more than religious fanatics who would fight to the last Palestinian.

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7OJ2XdUA2bI&feature=related[/ame]

 

[Ropey]

They can't change because they are brainwashed, and yes the Palestinians should be pitied, their Imams tell they day after day the Jews are source of all their problems, and call on them to kill the Jews. The leaders of Hamas or Fatah are not interested in creating a state, that is just a cover story, they are nothing more than religious fanatics who would fight to the last Palestinian.

Palestinian Statehood has been hijacked by the Arabian States who wanted to see another Arabian State there and not a Jewish state. They told the Arabians to leave Israel and that they would "Push Them Into The Sea" at which time the Arabians who left could come back to reclaim their land. When the fight was initiated by the Arabians, the Jews moved the rest of them out as they fought back and moved forwards, taking land to buffer, which is the right of any attacked country. To this day, a great majority of the Arabians and Iranian, Turks, etc. wish this. The Saudi refuse to even shake hands with Israel people. This is not uncommon in the Arabian world and so peace must be regional. The issue is NOT Palestinian Statehood, although that is negotiable. The issue is that Arabian countries need to move onward and create a peace with an economic block. Rather than run and fight, they can enter the arena of a large middle eastern block. Certainly my people can help these ones with their money. They can not seem to help but steal it or spend it foolishly in Dubai and Las Vegas.