Occupation 101

[Ropey]

Do you agree the struggle in Palestine is over land?

The fight is over Jews being on the land and in control of it and in control of "true believers" living there! The Jew can stay as second class citizens in a greater Arabian "Israel" which would be called Palestine.

That's their (and your) fight. The fight you look for is coming. It will not be pretty for anyone and I certainly wish it did not come but your side is clearly intractable.

There is no difference between the Arabians of Gaza and the West Bank or any other Arabian in Lebanon, Syria and Jordan.

The fight has never been about land. The Arabians have made it clear. You know this.

"Israel will exist and will continue to exist until Islam will obliterate it, just as it obliterated others before it." (The Martyr, Imam Hassan al-Banna, of blessed memory)."

Clicky

Israel is land. Islam is not. It is not about land. It is about non Islam in control of land that is in the Arabian Peninsula. It is about Jews being in control of Arabians in Israel.

Not land. And you know this, but you attempt to put it into terms of material manufacture.

Sorry, that doesn't fly with reality. Israel is here to stay.

 

[Marc39]

Quote: Originally Posted by georgephillip
Do you agree the struggle in Palestine is over land?

Earth to clueless George: Muslims already control 99.9% of the Middle East.

The "struggle" is over Islamic intolerance of Jews and all other kafirs [non-Muslims]

This is well-documented in the Islamic literature.
To wit...

Sahih Muslim, Book 019, Number 4366:

It has been narrated by 'Umar b. al-Khattib that he heard the Messenger of Allah (may peace be upon him) say: I will expel the Jews and Christians from the Arabian Peninsula and will not leave any but Muslim.

Sahih Bukhari, 4:52:177...

The Day of Judgment will not have come until you fight with the Jews, and the stones and the trees behind which a Jew will be hiding will say: 'O Muslim! There is a Jew hiding behind me, come and kill him!

Now, even you know

 

[Ropey]

Now, even you know

I put forward that he already knows. It just not fit in with his personal side. He's on one end of a divide.

There are Jewish fanatics as well who say that they should have a greater Israel. Both sides of fanatics are winning at the moment. The difference is that his side's leaders are those selfsame fanatics and the Democracy that is Israel still is able to marginalize our fanatics.

But don't kid yourself Marc. He knows or he would not have referenced it towards land.

 

[Marc39]

Now, even you know

I put forward that he already knows. It just not fit in with his personal side. He's on one end of a divide.

You give credit for intelligence where is is not due.

 

[Marc39]

There are Jewish fanatics as well who say that they should have a greater Israel.

A "greater Israel"? You mean, like the 51 member-states of the League of Nations that established the Jewish homeland in the greater Israel, including Jordan?

Seems the Muslims have the greater Middle East. Like, 99.9% of the Middle East. And, north Africa, too.

 

[Ropey]

Now, even you know

I put forward that he already knows. It just not fit in with his personal side. He's on one end of a divide.

You give credit for intelligence where is is not due.

Not at all Marc. He couches the divide in terms of land. There is only one reason to couch the attack in terms of land rather than complete surrender to Islamic superiority.

That's why it is called a Fascist ideology. It's not hidden. Neither was Hitler's ideology of superiority.

 

[Marc39]

I put forward that he already knows. It just not fit in with his personal side. He's on one end of a divide.

You give credit for intelligence where is is not due.

Not at all Marc. He couches the divide in terms of land. There is only one reason to couch the attack in terms of land rather than complete surrender to Islamic superiority.

That's why it is called a Fascist ideology. It's not hidden. Neither was Hitler's ideology of superiority.

He's a most unfortunate combination of mental illness, ignorance and alcoholism. Don't waste oxygen trying, in vain, to reason with him. Just demolish him, as I do.

 

[Ropey]

It's not about right or wrong really. It's about reality, and what comes from keeping ones self in reality.

Right or wrong is applied to a morality. I don't want to go there, as then it becomes groups of old people holding books up and frothing at the mouth at what others should or should not be doing. I believe that should in reality is what is, no more. Morals and ethics change with belief systems, reality remains.

I believe:

Israel is here. Therefore it should be. Others can extend a belief of protection by otherworldly powers. I will not fall there. Logic has a great partnership with reality. Because then true discussion can start.

Governing morality is tied to ethics and from that is birthed a doctrine which extends to control in its many forms, of which Islam is (I believe) one of complete and utter subjugation.

If one completely and utterly submits (there is NO other word in Islam for the subjugation) to Islam then you can live peacefully within Islam. Jews or anyone else. It's not about race. It's not about land. Ideology never is although one can see the conquest for religious subjugation in some of its forms as it extends over land, but the land is not the reason for the conquest. It is subjugation in the form of submission.

I'd rather Israel remain a Democracy. One thing is for certain. If Israel is attacked, it will be the nexus of a great war in the middle east. Fanatics are fine with that as they see any amount of death a win, if the outcome is Israel's end. I'd rather not see any fight come, but I know...

 

[georgephillip]

There are Jewish fanatics as well who say that they should have a greater Israel.

A "greater Israel"? You mean, like the 51 member-states of the League of Nations that established the Jewish homeland in the greater Israel, including Jordan?

Seems the Muslims have the greater Middle East. Like, 99.9% of the Middle East. And, north Africa, too.

Do you look forward to the Land of Israel extending from the Nile to the Euphrates?

 

[Marc39]

There are Jewish fanatics as well who say that they should have a greater Israel.

A "greater Israel"? You mean, like the 51 member-states of the League of Nations that established the Jewish homeland in the greater Israel, including Jordan?

Seems the Muslims have the greater Middle East. Like, 99.9% of the Middle East. And, north Africa, too.

Do you look forward to the Land of Israel extending from the Nile to the Euphrates?

Muzzies already conquered that land. Allah is an imperialist who steals others' lands.

 

[georgephillip]

I put forward that he already knows. It just not fit in with his personal side. He's on one end of a divide.

You give credit for intelligence where is is not due.

Not at all Marc. He couches the divide in terms of land. There is only one reason to couch the attack in terms of land rather than complete surrender to Islamic superiority.

That's why it is called a Fascist ideology. It's not hidden. Neither was Hitler's ideology of superiority.

Am I couching the divide in terms of land when I point out only one side in this conflict is appropriating the land and demolishing the homes of the other?

I've no illusions at all about subjugation's role in all authoritarian systems, including Islam, Judaism and Christianity. All three "great" religions stem from a bronze-age desert psychopath who endorsed chattel slavery, child abuse, and genocide.

As I see it, your side isn't seeing the corporate authoritarians in New York and London who profit from the conflict in the Holy Land.

Or, in Marc's case, personally engaged in shilling for the corporations who profit from other people's misery.

 

[georgephillip]

A "greater Israel"? You mean, like the 51 member-states of the League of Nations that established the Jewish homeland in the greater Israel, including Jordan?

Seems the Muslims have the greater Middle East. Like, 99.9% of the Middle East. And, north Africa, too.

Do you look forward to the Land of Israel extending from the Nile to the Euphrates?

Muzzies already conquered that land. Allah is an imperialist who steals others' lands.

As was Moses.
George Washington
Andy Jackson
Yitzshak Shamir
Golda
Marc39

 

[Marc39]

You give credit for intelligence where is is not due.

Not at all Marc. He couches the divide in terms of land. There is only one reason to couch the attack in terms of land rather than complete surrender to Islamic superiority.

That's why it is called a Fascist ideology. It's not hidden. Neither was Hitler's ideology of superiority.

Am I couching the divide in terms of land when I point out only one side in this conflict is appropriating the land and demolishing the homes of the other?

Israel is appropriating 0.1% of the Middle East, while Muslims control 99.9% of the landmass?

Israel is not very good at appropriating, eh?

Israel existed over 3,000 years ago, thousands of years before the Muhammadan, and Jews have lived continually in the Holy Land for 4,000 years.

You're drinking, again. Hiccup.

 

[Kalam]

If one completely and utterly submits (there is NO other word in Islam for the subjugation) to Islam then you can live peacefully within Islam. Jews or anyone else. It's not about race. It's not about land. Ideology never is although one can see the conquest for religious subjugation in some of its forms as it extends over land, but the land is not the reason for the conquest. It is subjugation in the form of submission.

Not quite correct. Submission, Islam, to the will of Allah ta'ala is what is required of Muslims. Submission is not required of the people of the dhimma living under an Islamic system, who are merely subdued (saghiroon) from exercising authority over the Muslims but are otherwise generally allowed to live according to their own legal systems. The nature of the dhimma and those who are under it is best explained by Hizb ut-Tahrir in this article:

DHIMMI - Non-Muslims living in the Khilafah

 

[Ropey]

There are Jewish fanatics as well who say that they should have a greater Israel.

A "greater Israel"? You mean, like the 51 member-states of the League of Nations that established the Jewish homeland in the greater Israel, including Jordan?

Seems the Muslims have the greater Middle East. Like, 99.9% of the Middle East. And, north Africa, too.

Do you look forward to the Land of Israel extending from the Nile to the Euphrates?

No. But you only ask questions. You don't seem to answer them, and you pull statements out of context to ask your own questions.

Do you consider that civil George?

 

[Kalam]

A rose by any other name...

If one completely and utterly submits (there is NO other word in Islam for the subjugation) to Islam then you can live peacefully within Islam. Jews or anyone else. It's not about race. It's not about land. Ideology never is although one can see the conquest for religious subjugation in some of its forms as it extends over land, but the land is not the reason for the conquest. It is subjugation in the form of submission.

Not quite correct. Submission, Islam, to the will of Allah ta'ala is what is required of Muslims. Submission is not required of the people of the dhimma living under an Islamic system, who are merely subdued (saghiroon) from exercising authority over the Muslims but are otherwise generally allowed to live according to their own legal systems. The nature of the dhimma and those who are under it is best explained by Hizb ut-Tahrir in this article:

DHIMMI - Non-Muslims living in the Khilafah

I'll take this as an affirmation of what I said.

 

[Ropey]

A rose by any other name...

This is why I said Subjugation by Submission.

If one completely and utterly submits (there is NO other word in Islam for the subjugation) to Islam then you can live peacefully within Islam. Jews or anyone else. It's not about race. It's not about land. Ideology never is although one can see the conquest for religious subjugation in some of its forms as it extends over land, but the land is not the reason for the conquest. It is subjugation in the form of submission.

Not quite correct. Submission, Islam, to the will of Allah ta'ala is what is required of Muslims. Submission is not required of the people of the dhimma living under an Islamic system, who are merely subdued (saghiroon) from exercising authority over the Muslims but are otherwise generally allowed to live according to their own legal systems. The nature of the dhimma and those who are under it is best explained by Hizb ut-Tahrir in this article:

DHIMMI - Non-Muslims living in the Khilafah

 

[Ropey]

Of course you can. You should know the intricacies better than I, but that does not change the fact that it is still a rose.

A rose by any other name...

Not quite correct. Submission, Islam, to the will of Allah ta'ala is what is required of Muslims. Submission is not required of the people of the dhimma living under an Islamic system, who are merely subdued (saghiroon) from exercising authority over the Muslims but are otherwise generally allowed to live according to their own legal systems. The nature of the dhimma and those who are under it is best explained by Hizb ut-Tahrir in this article:

DHIMMI - Non-Muslims living in the Khilafah

I'll take this as an affirmation of what I said.

 

[Kalam]

A rose by any other name...

This is why I said Subjugation by Submission.

If one completely and utterly submits (there is NO other word in Islam for the subjugation) to Islam then you can live peacefully within Islam. Jews or anyone else. It's not about race. It's not about land. Ideology never is although one can see the conquest for religious subjugation in some of its forms as it extends over land, but the land is not the reason for the conquest. It is subjugation in the form of submission.

Not quite correct. Submission, Islam, to the will of Allah ta'ala is what is required of Muslims. Submission is not required of the people of the dhimma living under an Islamic system, who are merely subdued (saghiroon) from exercising authority over the Muslims but are otherwise generally allowed to live according to their own legal systems. The nature of the dhimma and those who are under it is best explained by Hizb ut-Tahrir in this article:

DHIMMI - Non-Muslims living in the Khilafah

...an inaccurate description that fails to distinguish between living according to a system and merely acknowledging its ascendancy without actually having to abide by its tenets.

 

[Jroc]

There are Jewish fanatics as well who say that they should have a greater Israel. Both sides of fanatics are winning at the moment. The difference is that his side's leaders are those selfsame fanatics and the Democracy that is Israel still is able to marginalize our fanatics.

.

I must be a fanatic then because to me Jordan is the so-called "Palestinian" state. Judea and Samaria should be annexed and with all the money being wasted on the "Palestinians" they could be relocated to Jordan.