Occupy Wall Street: The Movement Grows

[Luissa]

If you compare the two, both started out pretty much the same way, but I guess I can do the partisan thing and list all the groups they used in the beginning to get their message out there.

Like I said, do you guys know the definition of a grassroots movement?

They did not start the same way at all.

We never got any money to set up our tax day protests, later called the tea party, in april of 2009. Nor did we have any well funded groups to help us that first day. Money did not come into the tea party movement until well after the random protests all sprung up that april.

This wall street thing was organized from the beginning by groups, as evidenced in the links i already gave you, who receive money from billionaires and millionaires.

Thats the difference.

Really? Freedomworks was traced to the Tea Party in April 2009.

"FreedomWorks and dontGO seem to have taken ownership of the bulk of this coordination. The homepage of FreedomWorks' website now offers visitors a Google map of protests taking place across the country. They say they know of 600 Tax Day protests for which they are providing resources. The group has used its e-mail list to augment the work of dontGO, which created the website Patriot Action Network | We are united by our passion for re-establishing Constitution based liberty & limited government through dialogue,debate,legislation & elections. in February. dontGO, which was formed as an online rapid response team during the House of Representatives oil drilling debate last year, says it is "tracking" 700 events under its aegis. Americans for Prosperity says it has 24 state chapters that are organizing events. Overlap between all those numbers is quite likely: FreedomWorks told me a lot of its activity has been clueing its members to other protests in the area, so protesters can cooperate and conglomerate their events."
The Tea Party Movement: Who's In Charge? - Chris Good - Politics - The Atlantic


I already provided a link where it stated the Koch Brothers have donated 12 million to Freedom Works.


"FreedomWorks and Americans for Prosperity both originated from a campaign called Citizens for a Sound Economy, which split in two in 2004. CSE was set up by businessman David Koch (Koch Industries).[3] Citizens for a Sound Economy merged with Empower America in 2004 and was renamed FreedomWorks, with Dick Armey, Jack Kemp and C. Boyden Gray serving as co-chairmen, Bill Bennett focusing on school choice as a Senior Fellow, and Matt Kibbe as President and CEO.[4][5][contradiction] Empower America was founded in 1993 by William Bennett, former Secretary of HUD Jack Kemp, former Ambassador Jeane J. Kirkpatrick, and former Representative Vin Weber.[6] In December 2006, Steve Forbes joined the board of directors.[7]
The ‘Freedomworks’ name was derived from a common Armey saying: “Freedom works. Freedom is good policy and good politics.”

FreedomWorks - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

[Luissa]

oops. anti semetic slurs!! nooo way!

]Anti-Semitism at Occupy Wall Street Protest [CLEAN VERSION] - YouTube



I am sure we'll see replays of this moment on nbc abc cbs cnn mslsd etc....that darn wall st movement, bunch of rednecks..

My gast.... it's totally flabbered.

 

[California Girl]

If you compare the two, both started out pretty much the same way, but I guess I can do the partisan thing and list all the groups they used in the beginning to get their message out there.

Like I said, do you guys know the definition of a grassroots movement?

They did not start the same way at all.

We never got any money to set up our tax day protests, later called the tea party, in april of 2009. Nor did we have any well funded groups to help us that first day. Money did not come into the tea party movement until well after the random protests all sprung up that april.

This wall street thing was organized from the beginning by groups, as evidenced in the links i already gave you, who receive money from billionaires and millionaires.

Thats the difference.

Really? Freedomworks was traced to the Tea Party in April 2009.

"FreedomWorks and dontGO seem to have taken ownership of the bulk of this coordination. The homepage of FreedomWorks' website now offers visitors a Google map of protests taking place across the country. They say they know of 600 Tax Day protests for which they are providing resources. The group has used its e-mail list to augment the work of dontGO, which created the website Patriot Action Network*|*We are united by our passion for re-establishing Constitution based liberty & limited government through dialogue,debate,legislation & elections. in February. dontGO, which was formed as an online rapid response team during the House of Representatives oil drilling debate last year, says it is "tracking" 700 events under its aegis. Americans for Prosperity says it has 24 state chapters that are organizing events. Overlap between all those numbers is quite likely: FreedomWorks told me a lot of its activity has been clueing its members to other protests in the area, so protesters can cooperate and conglomerate their events."
The Tea Party Movement: Who's In Charge? - Chris Good - Politics - The Atlantic


I already provided a link where it stated the Koch Brothers have donated 12 million to Freedom Works.


"FreedomWorks and Americans for Prosperity both originated from a campaign called Citizens for a Sound Economy, which split in two in 2004. CSE was set up by businessman David Koch (Koch Industries).[3] Citizens for a Sound Economy merged with Empower America in 2004 and was renamed FreedomWorks, with Dick Armey, Jack Kemp and C. Boyden Gray serving as co-chairmen, Bill Bennett focusing on school choice as a Senior Fellow, and Matt Kibbe as President and CEO.[4][5][contradiction] Empower America was founded in 1993 by William Bennett, former Secretary of HUD Jack Kemp, former Ambassador Jeane J. Kirkpatrick, and former Representative Vin Weber.[6] In December 2006, Steve Forbes joined the board of directors.[7]
The ‘Freedomworks’ name was derived from a common Armey saying: “Freedom works. Freedom is good policy and good politics.”

FreedomWorks - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

But that's a couple of years after the orginal TEA Parties started.

 

[Dragon]

If you want to know where OWS is really coming from, read this article by Ezra Klein:

Who are the 99 percent? - The Washington Post

“I did everything I was supposed to and I have nothing to show for it.”

It’s not the arrests that convinced me that “Occupy Wall Street” was worth covering seriously. Nor was it their press strategy, which largely consisted of tweeting journalists to cover a small protest that couldn’t say what, exactly, it hoped to achieve. It was a Tumblr called, “We Are The 99 Percent,” and all it’s doing is posting grainy pictures of people holding handwritten signs telling their stories, one after the other.

“I am 20K in debt and am paying out of pocket for my current tuition while I start paying back loans with two part time jobs.”

These are not rants against the system. They’re not anarchist manifestos. They’re not calls for a revolution. They’re small stories of people who played by the rules, did what they were told, and now have nothing to show for it. Or, worse, they have tens of thousands in debt to show for it.

“I am a 28 year old female with debt that had to give up her apartment + pet because I have no money and I owe over $30,000.”

College debt shows up a lot in these stories, actually. It’s more insistently present than housing debt, or even unemployment. That might speak to the fact that the protests tilt towards the young. But it also speaks, I think, to the fact that college debt represents a special sort of betrayal. We told you that the way to get ahead in America was to get educated. You did it. And now you find yourself in the same place, but buried under debt. You were lied to.

“Married mother of 3. Lost my job in 2009. My family lost our health insurance, our savings, our home, and our good credit. After 16 months, I found a job -- with a 90 mile commute and a 25 percent pay cut. After gas, tolls, daycare, and the cost of health insurance, i was paying so my kids had access to health care.”

Let’s be clear. This isn’t really the 99 percent. If you’re in the 85th percentile, for instance, your household is making more than $100,000, and you’re probably doing okay. If you’re in the 95th percentile, your household is making more than $150,000. But then, these protests really aren’t about Wall Street, either. There’s not a lot of evidence that these people want a class war, or even particularly punitive measures on the rich. The only thing that’s clear from their missives is that they want the economy to start working for them, too.

“I am young. I am educated and hard working. I am not able to pay my bills. I am afraid of what the future holds.”

I don’t imagine that too many members of, say, the 97th percentile are writing in to this Web site. But imagine yourself as a young person who took out loans to go to college, got good grades, and has graduated into an economy that doesn’t seem to want you. You did everything you were told to do, and it didn’t work out. That hurts, of course, but it’s a bad economy, and everybody is suffering. At least, that’s what they say.

“i am a 19 year old student with 18 credit hours and 2 part time jobs. i am over 4000 dollars in debt but my paychecks are just enough to get me to school and back. next year my plan was to attend a 4 year college and get my bfa, but now i am afraid that without a co-signer i will have no shot at a loan and even if i can get a loan i am afraid that i will leave college with no future and a crippling debt.”

But you look around and the reality is not everyone is suffering. Wall Street caused this mess, and the government paid off their debts and helped them rake in record profits in recent years. The top 1 percent account for 24 percent of the nation’s income and 40 percent of its wealth. There are a lot of people who don’t seem to be doing everything they’re supposed to do, and it seems to be working out just fine for them.

“I went to graduate school believing that there might be some financial security afforded by a higher degree, and that with that security I could finally buy my mom her own house and take care of her. Instead, I have wasted six years of my life.”

Perhaps that’s part of the reason that the movement doesn’t have clear demands. It’s easy to explain how to punish the rich. You can tax them, or regulate their activities. It’s a bit hard to say how to make the economy work better for average people. There’s an intuition out there that part of the reason it’s not working better is that the rich hold too much political power, and so there’s a clear desire to reduce that political power, but it’s not clear how far that actually gets you in terms of bringing wages up.

“I am a 27 year old with a bachelor degree. I ran out of my student loans while trying to find a job. I am ‘living’ with my mother again to get back on my feet. So far, the best I can do is a part time retail job paying $8 an hour. I am hearing impaired with cochlear implant. My cochlear implant warranty expired. I do not have the money to renew it. How can I work at my new minimum wage job when my implant is broken? I need it to HEAR.”

But this is why I’m taking Occupy Wall Street -- or, perhaps more specifically, the ‘We Are The 99 Percent’ movement -- seriously. There are a lot of people who are getting an unusually raw deal right now. There is a small group of people who are getting an unusually good deal right now. That doesn’t sound to me like a stable equilibrium.

The organizers of Occupy Wall Street are fighting to upend the system. But what gives their movement the potential for power and potency is the masses who just want the system to work the way they were promised it would work. It’s not that 99 percent of Americans are really struggling. It’s not that 99 percent of Americans want a revolution. It’s that 99 percent of Americans sense that the fundamental bargain of our economy -- work hard, play by the rules, get ahead -- has been broken, and they want to see it restored.

There is the real source of OWS: the widespread perception, based in solid truth, that the fundamental bargain of our economy is broken, and that working hard and playing by the rules are not sufficient to get ahead, and that the government works for the 1%, not the 99%. There is really no need to look for any other explanation.

Those of you who do seem to be making incredible leaps of logic in pointing to Obama or Van Jones or George Soros or whoever (you don't seem able to agree on the real power behind it all, which itself is indicative that you don't know what you're talking about) as the sinister mastermind behind all of these thousands of people emerging into the streets. For you, it seems enough that someone has voiced support for the movement, or contributed money to it, or expressed a desire that something like this happen, to conclude that here is the driving force. The complete irrationality of that thinking escapes you, because this is something you very much want to believe. The alternative -- that a grass-roots left-leaning movement of this size and persistence has actually arisen -- is simply too frightening.

 

[Uncensored2008]

Leftism, Antisemitism - Siamese Twins.....

 

[Luissa]

They did not start the same way at all.

We never got any money to set up our tax day protests, later called the tea party, in april of 2009. Nor did we have any well funded groups to help us that first day. Money did not come into the tea party movement until well after the random protests all sprung up that april.

This wall street thing was organized from the beginning by groups, as evidenced in the links i already gave you, who receive money from billionaires and millionaires.

Thats the difference.

Really? Freedomworks was traced to the Tea Party in April 2009.

"FreedomWorks and dontGO seem to have taken ownership of the bulk of this coordination. The homepage of FreedomWorks' website now offers visitors a Google map of protests taking place across the country. They say they know of 600 Tax Day protests for which they are providing resources. The group has used its e-mail list to augment the work of dontGO, which created the website Patriot Action Network*|*We are united by our passion for re-establishing Constitution based liberty & limited government through dialogue,debate,legislation & elections. in February. dontGO, which was formed as an online rapid response team during the House of Representatives oil drilling debate last year, says it is "tracking" 700 events under its aegis. Americans for Prosperity says it has 24 state chapters that are organizing events. Overlap between all those numbers is quite likely: FreedomWorks told me a lot of its activity has been clueing its members to other protests in the area, so protesters can cooperate and conglomerate their events."
The Tea Party Movement: Who's In Charge? - Chris Good - Politics - The Atlantic


I already provided a link where it stated the Koch Brothers have donated 12 million to Freedom Works.


"FreedomWorks and Americans for Prosperity both originated from a campaign called Citizens for a Sound Economy, which split in two in 2004. CSE was set up by businessman David Koch (Koch Industries).[3] Citizens for a Sound Economy merged with Empower America in 2004 and was renamed FreedomWorks, with Dick Armey, Jack Kemp and C. Boyden Gray serving as co-chairmen, Bill Bennett focusing on school choice as a Senior Fellow, and Matt Kibbe as President and CEO.[4][5][contradiction] Empower America was founded in 1993 by William Bennett, former Secretary of HUD Jack Kemp, former Ambassador Jeane J. Kirkpatrick, and former Representative Vin Weber.[6] In December 2006, Steve Forbes joined the board of directors.[7]
The ‘Freedomworks’ name was derived from a common Armey saying: “Freedom works. Freedom is good policy and good politics.”

FreedomWorks - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

But that's a couple of years after the orginal TEA Parties started.

I was responding to this statement by him

We never got any money to set up our tax day protests, later called the tea party, in april of 2009. Nor did we have any well funded groups to help us that first day. Money did not come into the tea party movement until well after the random protests all sprung up that april.

I think PP should do a little research about the Tea Party movement.

 

[Luissa]

It would seem in 2009, the tea party movement had more money than OWS.

 

[California Girl]

If you want to know where OWS is really coming from, read this article by Ezra Klein:

Who are the 99 percent? - The Washington Post

“I did everything I was supposed to and I have nothing to show for it.”

It’s not the arrests that convinced me that “Occupy Wall Street” was worth covering seriously. Nor was it their press strategy, which largely consisted of tweeting journalists to cover a small protest that couldn’t say what, exactly, it hoped to achieve. It was a Tumblr called, “We Are The 99 Percent,” and all it’s doing is posting grainy pictures of people holding handwritten signs telling their stories, one after the other.

“I am 20K in debt and am paying out of pocket for my current tuition while I start paying back loans with two part time jobs.”

These are not rants against the system. They’re not anarchist manifestos. They’re not calls for a revolution. They’re small stories of people who played by the rules, did what they were told, and now have nothing to show for it. Or, worse, they have tens of thousands in debt to show for it.

“I am a 28 year old female with debt that had to give up her apartment + pet because I have no money and I owe over $30,000.”

College debt shows up a lot in these stories, actually. It’s more insistently present than housing debt, or even unemployment. That might speak to the fact that the protests tilt towards the young. But it also speaks, I think, to the fact that college debt represents a special sort of betrayal. We told you that the way to get ahead in America was to get educated. You did it. And now you find yourself in the same place, but buried under debt. You were lied to.

“Married mother of 3. Lost my job in 2009. My family lost our health insurance, our savings, our home, and our good credit. After 16 months, I found a job -- with a 90 mile commute and a 25 percent pay cut. After gas, tolls, daycare, and the cost of health insurance, i was paying so my kids had access to health care.”

Let’s be clear. This isn’t really the 99 percent. If you’re in the 85th percentile, for instance, your household is making more than $100,000, and you’re probably doing okay. If you’re in the 95th percentile, your household is making more than $150,000. But then, these protests really aren’t about Wall Street, either. There’s not a lot of evidence that these people want a class war, or even particularly punitive measures on the rich. The only thing that’s clear from their missives is that they want the economy to start working for them, too.

“I am young. I am educated and hard working. I am not able to pay my bills. I am afraid of what the future holds.”

I don’t imagine that too many members of, say, the 97th percentile are writing in to this Web site. But imagine yourself as a young person who took out loans to go to college, got good grades, and has graduated into an economy that doesn’t seem to want you. You did everything you were told to do, and it didn’t work out. That hurts, of course, but it’s a bad economy, and everybody is suffering. At least, that’s what they say.

“i am a 19 year old student with 18 credit hours and 2 part time jobs. i am over 4000 dollars in debt but my paychecks are just enough to get me to school and back. next year my plan was to attend a 4 year college and get my bfa, but now i am afraid that without a co-signer i will have no shot at a loan and even if i can get a loan i am afraid that i will leave college with no future and a crippling debt.”

But you look around and the reality is not everyone is suffering. Wall Street caused this mess, and the government paid off their debts and helped them rake in record profits in recent years. The top 1 percent account for 24 percent of the nation’s income and 40 percent of its wealth. There are a lot of people who don’t seem to be doing everything they’re supposed to do, and it seems to be working out just fine for them.

“I went to graduate school believing that there might be some financial security afforded by a higher degree, and that with that security I could finally buy my mom her own house and take care of her. Instead, I have wasted six years of my life.”

Perhaps that’s part of the reason that the movement doesn’t have clear demands. It’s easy to explain how to punish the rich. You can tax them, or regulate their activities. It’s a bit hard to say how to make the economy work better for average people. There’s an intuition out there that part of the reason it’s not working better is that the rich hold too much political power, and so there’s a clear desire to reduce that political power, but it’s not clear how far that actually gets you in terms of bringing wages up.

“I am a 27 year old with a bachelor degree. I ran out of my student loans while trying to find a job. I am ‘living’ with my mother again to get back on my feet. So far, the best I can do is a part time retail job paying $8 an hour. I am hearing impaired with cochlear implant. My cochlear implant warranty expired. I do not have the money to renew it. How can I work at my new minimum wage job when my implant is broken? I need it to HEAR.”

But this is why I’m taking Occupy Wall Street -- or, perhaps more specifically, the ‘We Are The 99 Percent’ movement -- seriously. There are a lot of people who are getting an unusually raw deal right now. There is a small group of people who are getting an unusually good deal right now. That doesn’t sound to me like a stable equilibrium.

The organizers of Occupy Wall Street are fighting to upend the system. But what gives their movement the potential for power and potency is the masses who just want the system to work the way they were promised it would work. It’s not that 99 percent of Americans are really struggling. It’s not that 99 percent of Americans want a revolution. It’s that 99 percent of Americans sense that the fundamental bargain of our economy -- work hard, play by the rules, get ahead -- has been broken, and they want to see it restored.

There is the real source of OWS: the widespread perception, based in solid truth, that the fundamental bargain of our economy is broken, and that working hard and playing by the rules are not sufficient to get ahead, and that the government works for the 1%, not the 99%. There is really no need to look for any other explanation.

Those of you who do seem to be making incredible leaps of logic in pointing to Obama or Van Jones or George Soros or whoever (you don't seem able to agree on the real power behind it all, which itself is indicative that you don't know what you're talking about) as the sinister mastermind behind all of these thousands of people emerging into the streets. For you, it seems enough that someone has voiced support for the movement, or contributed money to it, or expressed a desire that something like this happen, to conclude that here is the driving force. The complete irrationality of that thinking escapes you, because this is something you very much want to believe. The alternative -- that a grass-roots left-leaning movement of this size and persistence has actually arisen -- is simply too frightening.

Ezra Klein.... you sure you want to use him as your source? You might want to check his links to Soros, Watermelon Man, et al, before you hold him up as an independent source.

 

[Luissa]

So it seems the Tea Party movement, and according to PP the Adbusters and OWS have a lot in common.

They started out as grass roots, and both started going after the big guns to get national attention.

 

[mudwhistle]

If you compare the two, both started out pretty much the same way, but I guess I can do the partisan thing and list all the groups they used in the beginning to get their message out there.

Like I said, do you guys know the definition of a grassroots movement?

I know what astroturf is.

Yes, you're the smartest fucker here.

The rest of us knuckle-draggers and mouth-breathers are too distracted by shiny objects to know what you know.

It must be tough having all that knowledge and nobody else able to speak to on your level.

It's like Einstein trying to relate to the retarded.

 

[Dragon]

Ezra Klein.... you sure you want to use him as your source? You might want to check his links to Soros, Watermelon Man, et al, before you hold him up as an independent source.

I do not present anyone as an authority, because I am not an authoritarian thinker. To do so would be argumentum ad autoritandem, a logical fallacy. What you have presented in this post is argumentum ad hominem, another logical fallacy.

Everyone's statements must be evaluated for what they are saying and whether it is true or false, without regard for who they are or what their connections may be. Neither Ezra Klein nor anyone else should be believed without question -- or dismissed without consideration.

Do you have any criticism if what he said, as opposed to who he is? That is, do you have anything to say that is not a logical fallacy?

 

[mudwhistle]

L...your act is getting boring.

 

[Luissa]

If you compare the two, both started out pretty much the same way, but I guess I can do the partisan thing and list all the groups they used in the beginning to get their message out there.

Like I said, do you guys know the definition of a grassroots movement?

I know what astroturf is.

Yes, you're the smartest fucker here.

The rest of us knuckle-draggers and mouth-breathers are too distracted by shiny objects to know what you know.

It must be tough having all that knowledge and nobody else able to speak to on your level.

It's like Einstein trying to relate to the retarded.

They also used astroturfing when referring to the Tea Party.

Both sides are always going to try to knock down the others "movement".

 

[Luissa]

L...your act is getting boring.

Pointing out the hypocrisy of some is boring to you? good to know

 

[Uncensored2008]

Ezra Klein.... you sure you want to use him as your source? You might want to check his links to Soros, Watermelon Man, et al, before you hold him up as an independent source.

Abby Hoffman ain't around and Charlie Manson is tied up, so Ezra will have to do...

 

[Si modo]

So, now this 'movement' is a grassroots one?

No. Really?

That's some funny shit.

 

[Luissa]

So, now this 'movement' is a grassroots one?

No. Really?

That's some funny shit.

It is just as grass roots as the Tea Party 2009 Tax Day protests.

 

[Si modo]

This 'movement' seems to tolerate racists, homophobes, and anti-semites.

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z3aqv7TYSM0]Danny Cline is Lotion Man - YouTube[/ame]

 

[WillowTree]

So the marcher asswipes want the taxpayers to put them through college so they can graduate and make $20 an hour for being unemployed. Am I hearing this right?

 

[mudwhistle]

Ezra Klein.... you sure you want to use him as your source? You might want to check his links to Soros, Watermelon Man, et al, before you hold him up as an independent source.

I do not present anyone as an authority, because I am not an authoritarian thinker. To do so would be argumentum ad autoritandem, a logical fallacy. What you have presented in this post is argumentum ad hominem, another logical fallacy.

Everyone's statements must be evaluated for what they are saying and whether it is true or false, without regard for who they are or what their connections may be. Neither Ezra Klein nor anyone else should be believed without question -- or dismissed without consideration.

Do you have any criticism if what he said, as opposed to who he is? That is, do you have anything to say that is not a logical fallacy?

The validity of what he says depends on who he is and his reputation.

Like Obama, if he has a reputation for being dishonest then what he says is Bullshit.