Occupy Wall Street: The Movement Grows

[CrusaderFrank]

So, these folks are 'protesting' with no reason.

Some posters seem to understand what the 'protest' is about, but they can't seem to articulate that.

And, when someone does articulate what this is all about, others say they aren't speaking for the 'protesters'.

Does anyone know what the demands and/or grievances are and what they want done to mitigate those grievances? This is an honest question.

It's about big government,anti -capitalism and redistribution of wealth. By the leaders of these groups.
A mixture of Communism, Socialism and Marxism.
It's always the same when they start this crap (application), if it's done right it works.
No mater how it is implemented it always leads to hording and not to handout.

It always leads everyone into slavery from the government, those who work to give to those who don't.
Redistribution of wealth always leads to ;
No hope
No Future
No Dreams
No pride in yourself and
No accomplishments.

They want more of the American people on drugs, alcohol and in gangs which is what happens when you give someone something without them working for it.

These poor protesters are being duped and used.

Why do you think so many people all around the world want to come to America?
To escape Communism, Socialism and Marxism.

The amazing part is how stupid the American Left is that they think this will work out for their benefit

 

[Big Fitz]

That is not a clever oneliner Cal.,because $20 an hour is a pittance from where I'm from...your wages are a disgrace,no wonder everyone lived on CREDIT,CREDIT and more CREDIT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!shit thats only $800 for a 40 hour week,our average is $1468.just saying

Great. Perhaps you could answer the question I keep asking of the protest supporters. What would be the economic impact of the 11 demands. If that's too hard.... just answer this one... what would be the economic impact of a $20 ph min wage?

Namibian Dollars are worth more than a little bit less than US Dollars you know.

 

[Si modo]

Good to know.

Do you think your complaints are in line with conserving the Constitution?

If you mean the list of complaints I posted above from OWS, yes, certainly. There is no need to overthrow the government in order to remedy those grievances.

EDIT: In my personal opinion (speaking only my own thoughts), the core problem is corporate influence on the government. The voters aren't offered progressive reforms at the ballot box (or when they are offered, as in 2008, it turns out to be empty campaign rhetoric). We are presented a choice between corporate-owned social moderates (the Democrats) and corporate-owned social right-wingers (the Republicans). So we can vote to screw ourselves over while promoting gay rights and legal abortion, or we can vote to screw ourselves over while retarding gay rights and making abortion more difficult. Not much of a choice.

The reason for OWS is to rock the boat enough that policies not in service to the greed of the very rich, and serving the public interest instead, can be offered for a vote. The politicians will not do this unless they are made to understand, in no uncertain terms, that the people DEMAND it.

You may find that we agree on a few things.

As far as corporate influence on government is concerned, corporations have a right to access to government as the rest of us, so I do not think that right should be stripped from them. However, they can operate in a gray area of the laws regulating influence as they are both organizations AND persons. The nice thing about them being persons is that they can be held accountable for torts.

Anyway, I digress. I do not agree with restricting their access to government because that is not in line with our founding principles. I do agree that there needs to be better campaign finance reform and the atrocity of McCain-Feingold needs to be shitcanned.

So, getting back to the authenticity of your claims about what the OWS is about, can you understand why I would like to know the source and legitimacy of that claim?

So, if you could verify that authenticity and/or legitimacy for me, that would be great.

 

[Truthmatters]

So you are fine with citizens united?

 

[Dragon]

The movement is decentralized and there is no truly "official" site. However, this is not too far off. It was put out by the General Assembly, an elected quasi-government of OWS that has certain defined functions:

Declaration of the Occupation of New York City | NYC General Assembly

I posted the entire text of this above.

There is a certain amount of crossover between OWS issues and those of the original libertarian Tea Party, even though OWS leans left and the Tea Party leans right. This video spells it out well:

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yjdpKmr7yRc&feature=share]Wall Street Occupier vs. Tea Partier (IMPORTANT-Watch Before You Rate) - YouTube[/ame]

 

[Si modo]

The movement is decentralized and there is no truly "official" site. However, this is not too far off. It was put out by the General Assembly, an elected quasi-government of OWS that has certain defined functions:

Declaration of the Occupation of New York City | NYC General Assembly

I posted the entire text of this above.

There is a certain amount of crossover between OWS issues and those of the original libertarian Tea Party, even though OWS leans left and the Tea Party leans right. This video spells it out well:

Wall Street Occupier vs. Tea Partier (IMPORTANT-Watch Before You Rate) - YouTube

Thank you.

Really.

I do agree with you that there is some (maybe even more than some) overlap with the Tea Party.

I would like to hear more. I think one thing that may be in your interest is to get rid of the idiotic bozos like that 'lotion man'. Make a public point of jettisoning those types from your ranks. The Tea Party does that as much as they can, too.

Let's see how this pans out and if you actually can get your voice heard.

 

[Uncensored2008]

The movement is decentralized and there is no truly "official" site. However, this is not too far off. It was put out by the General Assembly, an elected quasi-government of OWS that has certain defined functions:

Declaration of the Occupation of New York City | NYC General Assembly

I posted the entire text of this above.

There is a certain amount of crossover between OWS issues and those of the original libertarian Tea Party, even though OWS leans left and the Tea Party leans right. This video spells it out well:

Wall Street Occupier vs. Tea Partier (IMPORTANT-Watch Before You Rate) - YouTube

One big difference is that the End the Constitution crowd has to communicate with the flock through cartoons.

You know, in a form they will understand.......

 

[mudwhistle]

It appears that the Family Workers Party, or Workers Family Party, or whatever ACORN calls themselves these days is organizing this spontainious grass-roots occupation of Wall Street and in 18 other cities, which are totally spontainious and had been adertised for a couple of months online, totally spontainious, young, nothing to do with Obama or Soros event.

 

[Big Fitz]

So you are fine with citizens united?

Fine, no. Ecstatic, Yes. Finally, Corporations can compete equally with unions, PACs and 527's. Of course, I will be just as happy taking the ability to spend on politics away from ALL of these groups, but it must be all or none.

 

[peach174]

So, these folks are 'protesting' with no reason.

Some posters seem to understand what the 'protest' is about, but they can't seem to articulate that.

And, when someone does articulate what this is all about, others say they aren't speaking for the 'protesters'.

Does anyone know what the demands and/or grievances are and what they want done to mitigate those grievances? This is an honest question.

It's about big government,anti -capitalism and redistribution of wealth. By the leaders of these groups.
A mixture of Communism, Socialism and Marxism.
It's always the same when they start this crap (application), if it's done right it works.
No mater how it is implemented it always leads to hording and not to handout.

It always leads everyone into slavery from the government, those who work to give to those who don't.
Redistribution of wealth always leads to ;
No hope
No Future
No Dreams
No pride in yourself and
No accomplishments.

They want more of the American people on drugs, alcohol and in gangs which is what happens when you give someone something without them working for it.

These poor protesters are being duped and used.

Why do you think so many people all around the world want to come to America?
To escape Communism, Socialism and Marxism.

The amazing part is how stupid the American Left is that they think this will work out for their benefit

Not really. They are being taught the pro's for this movement without the con's, in some of our Universities. It started in the 70's and has gotten more powerful.
The U of A in Tucson is a very liberal college and I was there in the 70's. The professors was teaching this crap way back then.
They don't teach you the full history about communism, socialism and Marxism. They never teach why they have always failed.

 

[PLYMCO_PILGRIM]

listen I don't disagree with the protestors wanting banks, who got billions of our money, to be held accountable for what they did and what they aren't doing with that money, I truly agree with them on that.

My issue is that people are calling it grassroots when big unions like SEIU have been planning this for months, groups funded by liberal millionaires and billionaires have also been preparing for it, and then people are calling it grassroots.....thats my true issue.

Its not so much their message as the lies about where the movement started that has me bothered.

 

[mudwhistle]

The movement is decentralized and there is no truly "official" site. However, this is not too far off. It was put out by the General Assembly, an elected quasi-government of OWS that has certain defined functions:

Declaration of the Occupation of New York City | NYC General Assembly

I posted the entire text of this above.

There is a certain amount of crossover between OWS issues and those of the original libertarian Tea Party, even though OWS leans left and the Tea Party leans right. This video spells it out well:

Wall Street Occupier vs. Tea Partier (IMPORTANT-Watch Before You Rate) - YouTube

Thank you.

Really.

I do agree with you that there is some (maybe even more than some) overlap with the Tea Party.

I would like to hear more. I think one thing that may be in your interest is to get rid of the idiotic bozos like that 'lotion man'. Make a public point of jettisoning those types from your ranks. The Tea Party does that as much as they can, too.

Let's see how this pans out and if you actually can get your voice heard.

There is some overlap, but not enough to scare Pelosi.

We're talking a spontainious herd like mentality rather then a well thought well informed Tea Party position.

Now that's scary.

 

[Dragon]

My issue is that people are calling it grassroots when big unions like SEIU have been planning this for months, groups funded by liberal millionaires and billionaires have also been preparing for it, and then people are calling it grassroots.....thats my true issue

You are mistaken about this. SEIU got involved only recently, and while many people on the left have been calling for, and trying to promote, some kind of popular dissent for a long time, it's a mistake to think they made it all happen.

I think a lot of conservatives don't understand this because (naturally enough) they don't participate in or monitor left-wing blog and on-line networking activity. (I mean, why would you?) I do, and I saw this building for a long time. There has been a growing desire for progressive reform ever since roughly the turn of the century, as the Millennial generation started coming of age.

It was there, on-line, in 2008, but it got diverted into electoral politics. The energy that is now going into the protests went instead into getting Obama elected. Naively, young activists thought that would be enough. But Obama has proved a disappointment: he campaigned as a progressive, but he's governed as a corporate Democrat. So, after a certain amount of fuming and venting at being betrayed, the energy now is going into protests, because it's clear that the Democrats will not do what they're supposed to do unless pushed.

Organizations like the SEIU and professional activists like Van Jones are quick to jump on the bandwagon, but they didn't start this. It grew from on-line discussions and networking, mostly among young people, that have been going on for years.

This isn't going away, either. It will continue to grow as long as this generation continues to come of age, which means roughly for another 15-20 years.

 

[Si modo]

The movement is decentralized and there is no truly "official" site. However, this is not too far off. It was put out by the General Assembly, an elected quasi-government of OWS that has certain defined functions:

Declaration of the Occupation of New York City | NYC General Assembly

I posted the entire text of this above.

There is a certain amount of crossover between OWS issues and those of the original libertarian Tea Party, even though OWS leans left and the Tea Party leans right. This video spells it out well:

Wall Street Occupier vs. Tea Partier (IMPORTANT-Watch Before You Rate) - YouTube

Thank you.

Really.

I do agree with you that there is some (maybe even more than some) overlap with the Tea Party.

I would like to hear more. I think one thing that may be in your interest is to get rid of the idiotic bozos like that 'lotion man'. Make a public point of jettisoning those types from your ranks. The Tea Party does that as much as they can, too.

Let's see how this pans out and if you actually can get your voice heard.

There is some overlap, but not enough to scare Pelosi.

We're talking a spontainious herd like mentality rather then a well thought well informed Tea Party position.

Now that's scary.

Scary? I don't know. It's hard to be afraid of a bunch of stoners camping out on a city sidewalk.

But, if Dragon is among them, I would like to hear more. And, Dragon and those like him should be concerned with their image. Their current image is getting them nowhere real fast.

I'm going to keep an eye on and listen to the rational ones.

 

[mudwhistle]

Thank you.

Really.

I do agree with you that there is some (maybe even more than some) overlap with the Tea Party.

I would like to hear more. I think one thing that may be in your interest is to get rid of the idiotic bozos like that 'lotion man'. Make a public point of jettisoning those types from your ranks. The Tea Party does that as much as they can, too.

Let's see how this pans out and if you actually can get your voice heard.

There is some overlap, but not enough to scare Pelosi.

We're talking a spontainious herd like mentality rather then a well thought well informed Tea Party position.

Now that's scary.

Scary? I don't know. It's hard to be afraid of a bunch of stoners camping out on a city sidewalk.

But, if Dragon is among them, I would like to hear more. And, Dragon and those like him should be concerned with their image. Their current image is getting them nowhere real fast.

I'm going to keep an eye on and listen to the rational ones.

You forget.

Nancy Pelosi was so afraid when she saw all those Tea Party rallies.

All of the pot-bellied men and those soccer-moms just scared the bejesus out of her.

 

[Si modo]

There is some overlap, but not enough to scare Pelosi.

We're talking a spontainious herd like mentality rather then a well thought well informed Tea Party position.

Now that's scary.

Scary? I don't know. It's hard to be afraid of a bunch of stoners camping out on a city sidewalk.

But, if Dragon is among them, I would like to hear more. And, Dragon and those like him should be concerned with their image. Their current image is getting them nowhere real fast.

I'm going to keep an eye on and listen to the rational ones.

You forget.

Nancy Pelosi was so afraid when she saw all those Tea Party rallies.

All of the pot-bellied men and those soccer-moms just scared the bejesus out of her.

Ohhhhh! I thought it was just her latest botox injections that did that.


My bad.

 

[peach174]

It appears that the Family Workers Party, or Workers Family Party, or whatever ACORN calls themselves these days is organizing this spontainious grass-roots occupation of Wall Street and in 18 other cities, which are totally spontainious and had been adertised for a couple of months online, totally spontainious, young, nothing to do with Obama or Soros event.

It started with Steven Lerner former executive union leader of SEIU (you know,the union members that beat up tea party people,purple tee shirts)
May 2011;

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UQQiFW2YDLM]SEIU Planned Destruction of Capitalism - YouTube[/ame]

This has been very well organized for months.

 

[mudwhistle]

My issue is that people are calling it grassroots when big unions like SEIU have been planning this for months, groups funded by liberal millionaires and billionaires have also been preparing for it, and then people are calling it grassroots.....thats my true issue

You are mistaken about this. SEIU got involved only recently, and while many people on the left have been calling for, and trying to promote, some kind of popular dissent for a long time, it's a mistake to think they made it all happen.

I think a lot of conservatives don't understand this because (naturally enough) they don't participate in or monitor left-wing blog and on-line networking activity. (I mean, why would you?) I do, and I saw this building for a long time. There has been a growing desire for progressive reform ever since roughly the turn of the century, as the Millennial generation started coming of age.

It was there, on-line, in 2008, but it got diverted into electoral politics. The energy that is now going into the protests went instead into getting Obama elected. Naively, young activists thought that would be enough. But Obama has proved a disappointment: he campaigned as a progressive, but he's governed as a corporate Democrat. So, after a certain amount of fuming and venting at being betrayed, the energy now is going into protests, because it's clear that the Democrats will not do what they're supposed to do unless pushed.

Organizations like the SEIU and professional activists like Van Jones are quick to jump on the bandwagon, but they didn't start this. It grew from on-line discussions and networking, mostly among young people, that have been going on for years.

This isn't going away, either. It will continue to grow as long as this generation continues to come of age, which means roughly for another 15-20 years.

SEIU just recently got involved?

That explains why it turned violent.

SEIU is Obama's crew. What the fuck is he doing trying to destroy private property on Wall Street????

Huh???

Think about what you just said hack!!!

 

[Dragon]

SEIU just recently got involved?

That explains why it turned violent.

What do you mean, turned violent? Do you have any evidence to back this up?

SEIU is Obama's crew. What the fuck is he doing trying to destroy privat property on Wall Street????

SEIU is a labor union, it is not "Obama's crew," and Obama himself has not yet embraced the movement (nor vice-versa). I think you are confused as to where the connections are actually drawn.

A few of the more progressive Democrats in Congress, including Nancy Pelosi, have come out in support of OWS; Obama, not yet.

 

[The Gadfly]

Good to know.

Do you think your complaints are in line with conserving the Constitution?

If you mean the list of complaints I posted above from OWS, yes, certainly. There is no need to overthrow the government in order to remedy those grievances.

EDIT: In my personal opinion (speaking only my own thoughts), the core problem is corporate influence on the government. The voters aren't offered progressive reforms at the ballot box (or when they are offered, as in 2008, it turns out to be empty campaign rhetoric). We are presented a choice between corporate-owned social moderates (the Democrats) and corporate-owned social right-wingers (the Republicans). So we can vote to screw ourselves over while promoting gay rights and legal abortion, or we can vote to screw ourselves over while retarding gay rights and making abortion more difficult. Not much of a choice.

The reason for OWS is to rock the boat enough that policies not in service to the greed of the very rich, and serving the public interest instead, can be offered for a vote. The politicians will not do this unless they are made to understand, in no uncertain terms, that the people DEMAND it.

You know perfectly well that those "grievances", cannot be rectified within the framework of the constitution. To grant their demands would in fact require the abolition of the constitution, something you and they are quite well aware of. Oh, you may not be directly calling for that, but since that's the necessary means to your desired end, that is exactly what you and they are advocating. I don't care what semantic devices you use to dodge the issue, that's exactly the implied goal. As for the violence, with the union goons of the SEIU involved, that's only a matter of time. You and that little hippie movement are in way over your heads, and you are about to start something you cannot finish. You are not down in the meadow in the itty bitty poo anymore, and you little minnows are now swimming with the sharks.