Official 2009 World Series Thread

[Paulie]

Not that Kate Hudson is ugly, but A-rod can't pick a chick, man.

Madonna and Hudson? When you're A-rod?

And @ Xeno

I like my chances with a rested Lee against a short rested AJ.

It's win or go home in front of the home fans. There's intangibles here, too.

We shall see.

 

[Xenophon]

I like my chances just as much Paulie.

NY doesn't fear lee, we have beaten this guy lots of times, as Charlie should now realize, rest is over rated in the World series.

 

[Paulie]

I like my chances just as much Paulie.

NY doesn't fear lee, we have beaten this guy lots of times, as Charlie should now realize, rest is over rated in the World series.

I would have pitched Lee last night. No question.

I heard conflicting rumors about Lee not wanting to risk the arm, but Charlie also made a statement about just not wanting to use him on short rest. So I don't know what to believe.

Without checking, I think historic short rest stats for pitchers are pretty bleak, playoffs and regular season.

I love Charlie, though. I think he made the wrong decision, but he's the best manager we've ever had.

When we won the Division, he went back and locked himself in his office and let the players have their moment.

He's a man who genuinely cares about his team, his players, and the sport.

 

[Paulie]

I found this:

History shows pitching on three days' rest not unusual - USATODAY.com

Phillies ace Cliff Lee, who threw 122 pitches in his 6-1 Game 1 victory, also says he's ready, although he's never started on three days' rest.

"Charlie (manager Manuel) is the one who makes those decisions," Lee says "I'm ready to pitch whenever they let me."

So there it is. It was all Charlie. Wrong decision, and if we lose this, he'll be questioned on it for weeks.

So what.

 

[Liability]

Managing is a combination of statistical awareness, guts, brains and balls.

If a manager says "I don't wanna risk this guy's arm" he can get roundly and soundly criticized of the one he starts instead gets pounded.

But if he pitches his star and the guy injures the arm, the manager is forever thereafter "that fucking retard" who ruined the star's arm!

I think the Philly's manager is being reasonable in wanting his star to have proper rest. Avoid injury and give him the best chance to pull the Phil's back into the Series.

I understand the counter argument. There could be no more tomorrow....

Screw it.

Do what you think is right. In the end, it's how the players play that tells the story.

Girardi has gotten sniped at too. BFD. Just make the call and let the players play. Don't over-manage, but don't fail to manage.

Have fun. It IS still just a game.

 

[Paulie]

Whatever.

Back in the day, pitchers didn't have pitch counts and limits.

It's all about their money now, and their "value" if they hurt their arm.

Look at Nolan Ryan with the Rangers. He's going to go with no limits on pitch counts, no?

 

[Xenophon]

I said from game one I had the impression Charlie didn't respect NY.

He thinks he can get by with average pitchers and a lot of that had to be that the Phils were 11-1 at home in the post season coming in.

Against NY they are now 0-2 at home.

Stats can bite you in the ass if you lie and die with them, as Charlie knows because he is a 'gut' manager.

In the old days teams only went with 4 starters and less in a WS, it was very common.

But one thing i do know, you want your best pitcher to have as many chances as possible, for NY that meant CC on short rest (and he was great, 2 runs his first outing and 3 in his second for an ERA of 3.30, which anyone would agree is excellent pitching against a top hitting club). NY split his starts, so its working for them.

Charlie may get 2 CG SOs from Lee and lose the series in 6.

 

[Paulie]

I think as the manager, in the WS especially, you go to your starters and you ask them flat out: CAN YOU GO ON 3 DAYS?

The YES's pitch on short rest. It's that simple.

 

[Andrew2382]

If Lee went into Charlies office and said

Give me the ball you old hillbilly fuck!!!

Charlie would have given him the ball

 

[Paulie]

If Lee went into Charlies office and said

Give me the ball you old hillbilly fuck!!!

Charlie would have given him the ball

So you're saying Lee didn't necessarily WANT to go on short rest without actually having to admit that he didn't?

Because you're right. There's pitchers that will ask for the ball. If he really wanted that ball, he'd have gone for it. Like we talked about yesterday, we have a club option on him for next year for 9 mil. If he hurts the arm, we certainly don't exercise the option, and then even if his arm manages to heal by the spring, who wants him, and at what price?

Who knows. It was still Charlie's decision, though. I don't know if he asked Lee directly if he WANTED the ball, but I'm sure I'll be finding that out soon enough through the media.

 

[Xenophon]

Knowing Lee and his history with being hurt, its a good bet he refused short rest and Manuel is covering.

Even goofy Pedro would have done it (he never lacked guts, that's for sure) but Lee will always be a question mark.

CC is the ultimate team pitcher, killed himself for the Brewers last year (and he was dead come playoff time) and here again for NY.

AJ and Andy both have no fear and no concerns about 3 days.

Where the hell is Lee?

 

[Paulie]

CC's got like 250 lbs of body to throw into his pitches. He's using less arm. He has an advantage when it comes to the issue of arm rest.

It reminds me of Lincecum's delivery. He uses almost all of his body when he throws, so the arm isn't taking as much of a beating.

I'll at least feel a little more validated though, if AJ comes up weak tonight on a short rest outing.

 

[del]

Whatever.

Back in the day, pitchers didn't have pitch counts and limits.

It's all about their money now, and their "value" if they hurt their arm.

Look at Nolan Ryan with the Rangers. He's going to go with no limits on pitch counts, no?

pitch counts were implemented by management, not the players.

dick radatz used to go nuts about this on local talk radio.

it is all about the money, just not the players' money, imo.

 

[Paulie]

Whatever.

Back in the day, pitchers didn't have pitch counts and limits.

It's all about their money now, and their "value" if they hurt their arm.

Look at Nolan Ryan with the Rangers. He's going to go with no limits on pitch counts, no?

pitch counts were implemented by management, not the players.

dick radatz used to go nuts about this on local talk radio.

it is all about the money, just not the players' money, imo.

It's not like the players didn't jump right on the bandwagon though when salaries started increasing and they realized what was on the line.

 

[Soggy in NOLA]

Yankees in game 5 Yep, that's right.

 

[Paulie]

Yankees in game 5 Yep, that's right.

The av is old, tired, and played out.

 

[del]

Whatever.

Back in the day, pitchers didn't have pitch counts and limits.

It's all about their money now, and their "value" if they hurt their arm.

Look at Nolan Ryan with the Rangers. He's going to go with no limits on pitch counts, no?

pitch counts were implemented by management, not the players.

dick radatz used to go nuts about this on local talk radio.

it is all about the money, just not the players' money, imo.

It's not like the players didn't jump right on the bandwagon though when salaries started increasing and they realized what was on the line.

i don't doubt that there's some "malingering" because they don't want to hurt their careers; that's a ton of money. i don't like it, but i don't blame them either.

 

[Paulie]

pitch counts were implemented by management, not the players.

dick radatz used to go nuts about this on local talk radio.

it is all about the money, just not the players' money, imo.

It's not like the players didn't jump right on the bandwagon though when salaries started increasing and they realized what was on the line.

i don't doubt that there's some "malingering" because they don't want to hurt their careers; that's a ton of money. i don't like it, but i don't blame them either.

I blame them at least SOMEWHAT.

If you've already made 10 million, let's say...

Is another 10 million really more important than winning a World Series?

I mean, at what point do athletes officially lose their minds?

Because every single one of them had a dream of playing pro ball and winning the world series. And then at some point, another couple million dollars changes their minds apparently.

It must really suck to make 10 million dollars doing what you always dreamed about and possibly not get to make that much money again

And 10 mil is a friggin conservative example, too.

 

[Xenophon]

Gamers play the game.

Losers worry about their careers.

 

[elvis]

why the hell are the yankees putting in pitchers on three days rest? three in a row. Burnett is throwing batting practice.