Official 2009 World Series Thread

[Paulie]

nothing made me happier then watching Rollins hit a shitty broken bat pop up off Mo...

I know Rollins said some stupid ass shit before the series started and all, but come on bro. Let's be cool about this.

I'm sure it kills you that you don't have the 27th trophy yet and all, but how bout we let bygones be bygones on the Rollins comment and keep this friendly.

If we somehow pull off a miracle I certainly won't be coming in here rubbing it in anyone's face.

In fact, it's good to see A-rod performing well without the juice. Shows he's a true great baseball player. "greatest" like Xeno said? I don't know. I think Pujols has that distinction, but whatever. This is the first time in his entire career that he's done SHIT in the postseason, so let's not be all over his nuts now...you know?

Anyway, take it light, boys. See you tonight @ 8pm EST.

dude,

I actually like the Phillies...I love Werth and Utley and Victorino...but I despise Rollins...even prior to the stupid Leno statements.

Just seeing all the stupid shit he has said playing against the Mets...I think he is a cocky little prick and nothing is making me happier then seeing him struggle out of all people and do nothing.

The only other controversial thing he really ever said was before '08 when he said "we're the team to beat".

And the media was the MAIN problem on that one, taking his statement WAY out of context. The actual statement was:

"The Mets had a chance to win the World Series last year. Last year is over. I think we are the team to beat in the NL East, finally. But, that's only on paper."

I mean, was he wrong? We had previously won the division. It was more like an obvious statement than anything else. On paper, we were better than the Mets were going into the season. The media ran with it, and created hyped up controversy that was unnecessary. But hey, that's the media's job.

He's got a bit of an attitude problem but he's not a bad dude. He performs charity work outside of baseball. At least he's not just a money grubbing piece of shit like what could be said about a lot of other professional athletes.

 

[Andrew2382]

George Steinbrenner probably does the most charity out of anyone involved in baseball.

He has high schools and hospitals named after him in Tampa. I watched the Yankeeography on George the other day...he really was an amazing man. Rumor is he might not make it to xmas.

Yet he is perceived as the devil

 

[Paulie]

George Steinbrenner probably does the most charity out of anyone involved in baseball.

He has high schools and hospitals named after him in Tampa. I watched the Yankeeography on George the other day...he really was an amazing man. Rumor is he might not make it to xmas.

Yet he is perceived as the devil

Only by the uninformed.

I never thought of him as the devil. Maybe a bit greedy, but he has loot and can buy championships. So the fuck what, right?

We all bitch and moan about our front offices being cheap about their rosters, and then we bitch and complain that Steinbrenner spends so much money on his.

In actuality, it's kind of stupid.

I wouldn't mind seeing a cap in baseball, though.

A-rod's career contracts are worth half a BILLION dollars. What the fuck??

What are your thoughts on a cap, especially being a Yank fan?

 

[Andrew2382]

I think that it will be a long time till we see one.

MLB players union is very strong and well run.

Also...how do you implement it?

Lets say the cap is 150 million.

What does that mean for the Yanks that are at 200?

They aren;t allowed to sign anyone till they drop?

Thats a little unfair...you can't obviously redo contracts...

They do have a penalty for going over the cap right now...Yanks paid over 25 million in luxury tax

 

[Paulie]

I think that it will be a long time till we see one.

MLB players union is very strong and well run.

Also...how do you implement it?

Lets say the cap is 150 million.

What does that mean for the Yanks that are at 200?

They aren;t allowed to sign anyone till they drop?

Thats a little unfair...you can't obviously redo contracts...

They do have a penalty for going over the cap right now...Yanks paid over 25 million in luxury tax

Well you'd obviously have to allow for current contracts to expire and then when re-signing happens, it would be as per cap rules. That would be the fairest way.

So for a couple years, some teams still have an advantage. Better that there'd be an end of the road on that, then right now where some have a perpetual advantage.

I get tired of hearing "only the yankees, red sox, angels, or dodgers could afford him anyway"

As far as luxury tax, I don't agree with it. That's socialist wealth redistribution right there. Who came up with THAT one, Obama?

 

[Paulie]

I agree with it more because of how MUCH players are getting paid, than because it's creating advantages, although it would be nice to know that not only CERTAIN teams could get ahold of a big name player that's available.

Every year there's teams with low payrolls that make it to the playoffs.

I think Florida's payroll in '03 was less than 50 mil.

 

[Xenophon]

If you have a cap, you also need to set max and min salaries for players.

The MLP Union would never allow it.

About Steiny and money, he paid 10 mil in 73 and wasn't that rich, he had a bunch of partners, he beame super rich by pumping money BACK into the team all the time, realizing that the way to fans and ratings is winning.

ANY team can do it, most clubs shy away if they make a money mistake (say, texas with Arod). NY won't, they will get the next guy. Pavano a bust? Sign Sabathia. Waste 20 mil on Igawa? Sign Burnett...ect. That is how NY keeps winning.

Most teams don't win with just a few trades and homegrown talent for very long, they may win one WS, but they break up such clubs as soon as the players become free agent eligible, as they don't want to pay the bump in salary.

Let's look at Paulie's Phills with three superstars in the infield. Howard gets 15 mil now. Utley is under paid by modern standards at 11 mil. Rollins makes only 8.5, as a FA he could get twice that. Lee has an 11 mil option, and could ask for more in arbitration.

As Philly ages, the salaries will increase.

Will Philly hold that team togther?

Last year's Rays will begin to be broken next year, Crawford will demand at least 12 mil, and cheapo tampa won't pay.

'Money ball' doesn't produce championships, just decent clubs for small windows.

 

[Andrew2382]

You know whats interesting tho...Baseball isn't monopolized by 1 team winning year after year.

Look at the NBA..they have a cap

The Lakers and Spurs have either won or been in the finals every year except for what 2? out of the past 10?

Numbers may be a little off there but I'm sure I'm not that far off.

Baseball hasn't had a back to back championships since the last Yankee dynasty. Cap doesn't mean that everything will be fair. There are plenty of shitty NFL and NBA teams and have been for quite a long time...

Twins are low payroll...Devil Rays are low payroll. Rockies are in the middle...Rangers are low payroll and had a good year till they collapsed etc...

 

[Paulie]

Great analysis, X. But Lee's option is 9 mil, not 11. And would he be arb eligible?

The Phils advantage is that they've been filling seats and making money.

They're doing what you just said Stein did.

But we have to keep winning. Soon as we slump, those seats empty up QUICK.

 

[Xenophon]

Salary cap tends to punish mistakes FOR YEARS.

Take the Knicks, they are STILL not cleared from the cap trouble Isiah created and he was fired TWO YEARS AGO.

Football only worked because it limited FA and shared all revenue (something that will end next year, so look for owners to try and bye championships).

As for the Phils paulie, if they shy away because of low attendance, they start the losing cycle all over again. You will have to wait for years until they can scout, draft, train and bring up players, and that is ALWAYS a crap shoot.

Right now, the Phils could win a few in a row, IF they spend on two starters and a closer. You won't win championships with washed up Pedros and Joe Blantons having 6 run ERAS very often, and its clear Lidge is back to his Huston days, sometimes he gets the bear, sometimes the bears get him.

 

[Paulie]

As for the Phils paulie, if they shy away because of low attendance, they start the losing cycle all over again. You will have to wait for years until they can scout, draft, train and bring up players, and that is ALWAYS a crap shoot.

Right now, the Phils could win a few in a row, IF they spend on two starters and a closer. You won't win championships with washed up Pedros and Joe Blantons having 6 run ERAS very often, and its clear Lidge is back to his Huston days, sometimes he gets the bear, sometimes the bears get him.

Dude, he wasn't really even that great LAST year. He got himself into SO MANY jams during the season. He had an incredible amount of luck behind that perfect save record.

His excuse was always "The adrenaline pumps up and I pitch better in jams".

The guy was a 'Victorino throw-out at the plate' away from blowing ONE save last year vs. Atlanta (my favorite play of the year, btw). And there were countless others where he literally dug himself out of 2, 3 men on with no outs.

Hamels and Lee as 1-2 punch is fine, as long as Hamels still cares about baseball...which I'm having my doubts about these days.

Most teams are lucky to have two starters of that caliber. We HAD a good bullpen, but a key lefty (Romero) is hurt.

And Blanton at one point was keeping us moving. His stats don't necessarily dictate his overall worth this year. We went through periods where certain starters were our "ace". Even Moyer.

Now, re-signing Moyer was just stupid as far as I'm concerned. Moyer should have left the game on top.

 

[Paulie]

Not to backtrack, because I'm enjoying this discussion, but how about Howard TOTALLY not touching the plate last night??

Even during live action it was obvious, I was yelling so loud GO BACK AND TOUCH THE PLATE!!!!!

I'm surprised Ruiz didn't say anything to him, it happened right there in front of his face.

 

[Xenophon]

Hamels is not going to get any better.

The fact that he got worse is alarming, but he loves to throw junk at a tender age is not encouraging.

Two starters win you a division.

You want to be in it every year, you have to be three deep or better.

If i were Philly, I'd get my hands on John Lacky NOW, that is the guy you need to park next to lee, Lee can be eratic.

 

[Xenophon]

Not to backtrack, because I'm enjoying this discussion, but how about Howard TOTALLY not touching the plate last night??

Even during live action it was obvious, I was yelling so loud GO BACK AND TOUCH THE PLATE!!!!!

I'm surprised Ruiz didn't say anything to him, it happened right there in front of his face.

The ump missed it and had already called him SAFE and you can't review that, just appeal it.

Since the ump missed it, he probaly would have upheld the run, when the ump sees you miss, normally they WON'T give a 'safe or 'out' sign.

 

[Paulie]

Blanton is a good #4 or #5 and Happ has game. Happ is better than Blanton I think, but not a #3 just yet. So Happ #4, Blanton # 5.

Now we need a #3. It's too bad Brett Myers never really lived up to his hype. He can't handle it when he gets beaten up during an inning. He lets his delivery fly off the handle and then just gives away the game. And he's afraid to to throw his fastball at mid 90's when he starts. But when he comes out of the pen, he lets it rip. I have no clue what kind of role he serves at this point.

We need one decent starter that could be a #3. But we could still get by with our current rotation, minus Moyer of course.

 

[Paulie]

Hamels is not going to get any better.

The fact that he got worse is alarming, but he loves to throw junk at a tender age is not encouraging.

Two starters win you a division.

You want to be in it every year, you have to be three deep or better.

If i were Philly, I'd get my hands on John Lacky NOW, that is the guy you need to park next to lee, Lee can be eratic.

Hamels obviously pitched worse this year because he got his money last year. I'll give him a little benefit of the doubt and say that during the season his wife was preg with their first, and maybe that was in his head.

But even when he addressed the fans last year at the end of the parade at the stadium (where Utley said 'world fucking champions') I just didn't feel like he was being real.

I almost think he's like a Barry Zito. A cali-boy who was great enough to get big money, but would rather be doing something else.

Who knows. Hopefully we get to game 7 and get one more chance to see this year

 

[Paulie]

I've seen it happen way too many times now where a player does so well going into a contract, and then gets their money and you never hear of them again.

The perfect example is Adrian Beltre. The man put up MVP type numbers with a bum leg all year to boot, and got a huge contract, and I don't think I've heard his name since.

 

[Liability]

In another thread here at USMB just recently I took the liberty of prognosticating that just because A-Rod had started off poorly in the World Series was no reason to assume that he wouldn't come roaring back after perhaps "bumpin' uglies" with the lovely Ms. Hudson and in light of the fact that he'd be in the more relaxed atmosphere (less pressure) of being somewhere other than Yankee Stadium.

(Liability takes a breath...)

I now hereby formally congratulate me now on my keen and accurate insights.

Damn, it is cool being so right so often.

Thank me very much.

I ALSO suggested that I lacked confidence that the Yankees would take the Series in Philly and it might go 7 games.

I think that latter prediction is now more dubious.

As we all may recall, being one win away (even 3 - zip) is not a guarantee of ultimate victory in a 7 game series. But it now looks like the Yanks will not need 7 games to take the Championship.

Tonight? Not so certain. If Lee is up to the standards he showed last time, it could get rough for the Yanks tonight. Philly is a good team, afterall.

Yankees might be returning to Yankee Stadium....

In the end, I believe that I WILL be parroting a NY Yankee radio announcer in saying, "The Yankees Win! The Yankees WIN!!!!"

 

[Terry]

My Flyby post....GO YANKEE'S

 

[Xenophon]

Lee isn't a lock to win.

AJ owned the Phils in game 2, and NY has beaten Lee many times before.
I'd say this game is even money.