Oh Dear...The facts get in the way again.

[CockySOB]

I never said that CockySOB, and if I did say it, I reneged my initial thought on it. I am not even really talking about Libby at all!

and

you are not smart enough to understand me ...that's not my fault! lol

care

OK, thanks for the clarification then. That was most certainly how I was reading your posts.

 

[Care4all]

You also don't know that the VP is responsible for Plame's name coming out. The only REAL evidence points at Joe Wilson's quest for notoriety, and th emedia asking all the basic questions. Y'know, like ...Who's his wife and what does she do?

We know a little bit more about this than you may think Gunny, much came out of the investigation, which leads to it being the vp with Libby and Rove and the undersecretary of state.

I think it was Walter Pincus that first questioned Wilson's niger investigation with the administration and others...early on. This does not negate the concerted effort of this "special team" of people to the Press.

In the investigation, it did show that VP Cheney was perhaps consumed with Wilson, requesting all kinds of info on him from the Under Secretary of State thru Libby prior to the Novak outing.

It does show a concerted EFFORT on Libby and Rove and even others in this special "group" working for the vp/president, leaking to the Press on more than 5 occaisions that I know of, Valerie Plame's name and her connection to the CIa and Wilson.

I don't know if this concerted effort was with the intent of "outing an agent" and we will never know.

I don't know if this concerted effort to out her was merely innocent, and just a way to "spin" a story on their part, with no true harm intended.

I don't know with certainty, if these guys are all just following orders of their boss, or came up with this on their own.

I am not arguing this issue because I believe, as you, that this can not be known, because the investigation was stopped, according to Fitzgerald, because Libby obstructed Justice, and lied, which prevented him from getting to the bottom of this.

I personally think this is a copout.

But it could be, that Plame was much more sensitive of an agent than we surmise, and that we all should just drop it.

 

[Gunny]

We know a little bit more about this than you may think Gunny, much came out of the investigation, which leads to it being the vp with Libby and Rove and the undersecretary of state.

I think it was Walter Pincus that first questioned Wilson's niger investigation with the administration and others...early on. This does not negate the concerted effort of this "special team" of people to the Press.

In the investigation, it did show that VP Cheney was perhaps consumed with Wilson, requesting all kinds of info on him from the Under Secretary of State thru Libby prior to the Novak outing.

It does show a concerted EFFORT on Libby and Rove and even others in this special "group" working for the vp/president, leaking to the Press on more than 5 occaisions that I know of, Valerie Plame's name and her connection to the CIa and Wilson.

I don't know if this concerted effort was with the intent of "outing an agent" and we will never know.

I don't know if this concerted effort to out her was merely innocent, and just a way to "spin" a story on their part, with no true harm intended.

I don't know with certainty, if these guys are all just following orders of their boss, or came up with this on their own.

I am not arguing this issue because I believe, as you, that this can not be known, because the investigation was stopped, according to Fitzgerald, because Libby obstructed Justice, and lied, which prevented him from getting to the bottom of this.

I personally think this is a copout.

But it could be, that Plame was much more sensitive of an agent than we surmise, and that we all should just drop it.

No, "we" really don't know a little more about this than *I* think. You have no special intuitiveness, nor are you privy to any information I am not, and blaming Cheney is nothing more than partisan fishing.

In one sentence you claim that there was a concerted effort to leak Plame's name, and then you speak what is actually the truth ... we don't know, and probably never will. THAT does NOT substantiate an accusation.

 

[Care4all]

Follow Brewster Jennings if you want to know exactly why Valerie Plame would be outed.

It's not about Joe Wilson, i'll tell you that much.

okayyyyyyy.

you got my attention.

What are you implying and what should I be looking for when I do this research on Brewster Jennings?

Care

 

[Truthmatters]

B&J was tied to oil companies

 

[Truthmatters]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brewster_Jennings_&_Associates

 

[Superlative]

October 4, 2003

The leak of a CIA operative's name has also exposed the identity of a CIA front company, potentially expanding the damage caused by the original disclosure, Bush administration officials said yesterday.

The company's identity, Brewster-Jennings & Associates, became public because it appeared in Federal Election Commission records on a form filled out in 1999 by Valerie Plame, the case officer at the center of the controversy, when she contributed $1,000 to Al Gore's presidential primary campaign.

After the name of the company was broadcast yesterday, administration officials confirmed that it was a CIA front. They said the obscure and possibly defunct firm was listed as Plame's employer on her W-2 tax forms in 1999 when she was working undercover for the CIA. Plame's name was first published July 14 in a newspaper column by Robert D. Novak that quoted two senior administration officials. They were critical of her husband, former ambassador Joseph C. Wilson IV, for his handling of a CIA mission that undercut President Bush's claim that Iraq had sought uranium from the African nation of Niger for possible use in developing nuclear weapons......

....The inadvertent disclosure of the name of a business affiliated with the CIA underscores the potential damage to the agency and its operatives caused by the leak of Plame's identity. Intelligence officials have said that once Plame's job as an undercover operative was revealed, other agency secrets could be unraveled and her sources might be compromised or endangered........


http://www.washingtonpost.com/ac2/wp-dyn/A40012-2003Oct3?language=printer

http://www.antiwar.com/prather/?articleid=8156

http://www.commondreams.org/headlines03/1011-01.htm

http://www.boston.com/business/globe/articles/2003/10/10/apparent_cia_front_didnt_offer_much_cover/

 

[Care4all]

No, "we" really don't know a little more about this than *I* think. You have no special intuitiveness, nor are you privy to any information I am not, and blaming Cheney is nothing more than partisan fishing.

In one sentence you claim that there was a concerted effort to leak Plame's name, and then you speak what is actually the truth ... we don't know, and probably never will. THAT does NOT substantiate an accusation.

Did Cheney say that he "declassified" this information that contained Valerie Plame's identity before he sent his cronies out to spin the issue?

The answer is, yes.

Cheney, 3 years after the event, has indicated that the document that was used to "out" Ms. Plame, was "declassified" by him, with the President's authority.

This doesn't make any sense, why wouldn't he tell the prosecution and all of us this information from the very beginning, so not to waste our time and tax dollars on this lengthy investigation?

And WHY would President Bush come before us right after the supposed leak and say he would FIRE who was determined to leak this info, if the president had actually just given Cheney permission to declassify the document containing the agent being outed's name?

so, perhaps I am misunderstanding all of this....

But Libby, used as one of his defenses, that he was "authorized" by the vp to release this info about Plame that was in the document... I believe? (I will take the time to look this up to be sure)

It is incredible that after claiming this, he never got the vp to testify in his defense....somehow, but I guess being that he was being charged with perjury and ob/jus and lying to fbi investigators, and not the outing itself?

c

 

[Truthmatters]

It really is obvious what they knew what they were doing.

Im still not completely sure why though.

 

[Annie]

It really is obvious what they knew what they were doing.

Im still not completely sure why though.

So you mean it's 'obvious' to everyone but you?

 

[Truthmatters]

How did outing Plame change the facts surrounding their lies about Iraq?

I always wondered what they were really trying to accomplish by doing it.

 

[Annie]

How did outing Plame change the facts surrounding their lies about Iraq?

I always wondered what they were really trying to accomplish by doing it.

What is the tie-in with Plame outing and Iraq?

 

[Truthmatters]

In the build up to the Iraq war Bush said in a speach that Sdam was trying to buy yellow cake from Nigeria.

Wilson came out and said that had been totally discredited and that when they sent him to investigate that is what he found.

Then they outed his wife as having sent him and not them.

 

[Annie]

In the build up to the Iraq war Bush said in a speach that Sdam was trying to buy yellow cake from Nigeria.

Wilson came out and said that had been totally discredited and that when they sent him to investigate that is what he found.

Then they outed his wife as having sent him and not them.

Check this out:

http://article.nationalreview.com/?q=MGRjNzI4NzAyY2UwMjZiNmVhOGIyOTg2OGVkMWMzZmM=

I mean, 'check it out.' Not agree, find the points you think 'false' and check them.

 

[Truthmatters]

National review?

please

 

[Gunny]

And what evidence do you have to support THAT particular allegation...beyond the usual right wing talking points you get from FOX Noise?

How about you do yourself a favor and go to my profile, click on all threads started by GunnyL, and then come back and report exactly how many of them come from Fox?

THEN you can wipe the egg off your face.

 

[Gunny]

who was right about the yellow cake bullshit?

Do you think that going public about the President lying to the country on the verge of a war just seeking noteriety?

Don't you think making a baseless accusation against the President because you're nothing but a left-wingnut hack is intellectually dishonest?

I do.

 

[Truthmatters]

i drugged through it and it is a politcal opinion piece.

The niger docs this info was based on has been determined a fake.

 

[Truthmatters]

Check this out:

http://article.nationalreview.com/?q=MGRjNzI4NzAyY2UwMjZiNmVhOGIyOTg2OGVkMWMzZmM=

I mean, 'check it out.' Not agree, find the points you think 'false' and check them.

This writer did not sight anything he claimed .Im not going to do his and your homework either.

 

[Annie]

This writer did not sight anything he claimed .Im not going to do his and your homework either.