Ohio's Issue 1 Soundly Rejected By Voters In Major Win For Abortion Rights

[Kevin_Kennedy]

Good to know you never voted for him and don’t care that he lost. I agree that Democrats are very far from perfect or blameless. I did not vote for Hillary in 2016, but voted for Democrats in 2020 and will probably do so again and again until the authoritarian “Trump Party” is dead and buried. As the old Dylan song goes, “I will stand over its grave until I know that it’s dead.”

I absolutely disagree with your seeming “equally bad” arguments equating Democrats with Trumpsters on election fraud, protesting election skulduggery, and Trumpster Republican “Big Lies.” Traditional Republicans who supported the “Big Lie” are in fact apologists for him and all he represents. I hope you are not one of them.

I never equated them, I compared them. Escalation is the name of the game here. Democrats do one thing, Republicans respond by doing it a little bigger, then Democrats go even bigger, and Republicans go even bigger than that and on and on forever. It really doesn't matter who started it, but both parties have attacked the principle of the peaceful transfer of power to varying degrees over the last two-plus decades. Gore didn't do it as bad as Hillary or Trump, but he certainly laid the groundwork for both of them. You can't blame just Trump and ignore everything that came before him. I expect 2024, regardless of the result, will be worse than what we've seen thus far, or maybe we'll get a reprieve in 2024 but 2030 will be awful. I can't say for sure but it's a general pattern that's been fairly consistent over time.

I suppose I don't know what you mean by "Big Lie." That the election was stolen? I haven't seen any real evidence to suggest that the election in 2020 was stolen, as I'd define it. Was the election rigged? I think that's a different question and I think it fairly obviously was rigged against Trump. The security state, the corporate media, the Democratic Party, and portions of the GOP even conspired to protect Joe Biden from anything that might reflect poorly on him to help him defeat Trump. Does that bother me? Not in the sense of Trump's personal misfortune. The problem I see is that Trump still received a historic level of support in that election despite all of the shenanigans to disenfranchise him and his supporters, and if this is the new normal then what might those people resort to? If it's a concerted effort to keep them and their candidates out of the electoral system you might have a bigger problem then a couple of morons rioting in the Capitol. It's one thing for the system to disenfranchise libertarians like myself, we're small in number and don't necessarily see politics as the end goal, but millions upon millions of Trump supporters across the country? They're not just going to disappear.

 

[JGalt]

Yall said that about Obama before the 2012 election...and lost....
Yall said that about Democrats in general before the 2018 election..and lost.....
Matter of fact, yall have been losing national elections ever since 2016......but maybe if you suck off Trump even harder, it will work next time..

So says someone whose a traitor to his own race and a step-n-fetchit for a bunch of old, white Democrats.

You voted for Biden just to prove that you're Black because he told you that if you didn't, "you ain't Black."

 

[HikerGuy83]

Celebrating abortion is morbid.

I am more pro-life than pro-choice.

However, I don't believe that anyone is celebrating abortion.

 

[0311]

Ohios problem or not. Either way why should anyone outside Ohio care?
Celebrating abortion is morbid.

No one is "Celebrating Abortion". I am celebrating the fact the voters in Ohio stood up the ReNaziKLans of Ohio and defended a Woman's Right of Choice.

ReNaziKlans know they are losing on Abortion. What happened in Ohio was a direct attack on American Democracy. Votders in Ohio protected the right of the simple majority (50+1%) to amend the state constitution, Ohio Conservatives were pushing the 60% majority because they are shit scared of voters.

The American Voter in overwhelming numbers support a Woman's Right To Chose for herself what health care she will receive.

This in NOT the non-existent "Right to Life", if any person who uses that as an excuse to tell a 10-Year Rape/Incest that she must carry her attackers baby to term, then why do you cheer on people, including a child drowning in the Rio Grand because razor wire and buoys put in that river a governnor known his political show boating. IF you are so goddamned Pro-Fucking Life, you demand that governor remove barriers that are killing children. IF you think killing children in a river is so fucking great, then YOU ain't pro-life. You're just a racist xenophobe celebrating people being murdered for the color of their skin.

 

[schmidlap]

I'm sorry that it doesn't work for you, and that's not really my point anyway. You're blaming one person and one party for the erosion of a principle you claim to hold in importance. However, my point was in showing that the principle of the peaceful transfer of power has been eroding in American political discourse since at least the year 2000 and it has primarily in that timeframe come from Democrats eroding it. The only example from Republicans in that timeframe comes from Biden's election over Trump. Neither McCain nor Romney made any claims of fraud or theft in their elections, and any chatter from their supporters was extremely low-level. So the point is you can dislike what Trump and his supporters did, but you can't say that they weren't simply escalating the attacks on the principle of the peaceful transfer of power that in the past two-plus decades has been cynically abused by Democrats. And if you don't blame Gore, Kerry, Clinton, and the Democratic Party for what they've done to get us here then nobody should take your criticisms of Trump seriously.

Also, a question I'd find interesting: Let's assume that the election was objectively stolen from Gore or Clinton. SHOULD their supporters have gone to the Capitol to stop the certification? It's not clear to me that the principle of the peaceful transfer of power is more important than having a president elected legitimately. I'm curious what you think for this thought experiment. Note, I'm not saying Trump's claims of a stolen election were legitimate, I'm merely proposing a thought experiment.

Again, if you need to mischaracterize the unprecedented contempt for democracy exhibited by the 2020 loser and his cult as merely a logical progression of the reactions of recent losers Gore, Kerry, Dole, Dukakis, McCain, Romney, Clinton, etc. and their supporters, I find the refusal to admit to the obvious exceptional aspects of 2020 to be irrational.

Yes, there have been sore losers in the past - Tilden in 1876 comes to mind - but 2020 is unprecedented as an attack upon democracy. There is no other way to spin it that is credible.

 

[Remodeling Maidiac]

No one is "Celebrating Abortion". I am celebrating the fact the voters in Ohio stood up the ReNaziKLans of Ohio and defended a Woman's Right of Choice.

ReNaziKlans know they are losing on Abortion. What happened in Ohio was a direct attack on American Democracy. Votders in Ohio protected the right of the simple majority (50+1%) to amend the state constitution, Ohio Conservatives were pushing the 60% majority because they are shit scared of voters.

The American Voter in overwhelming numbers support a Woman's Right To Chose for herself what health care she will receive.

This in NOT the non-existent "Right to Life", if any person who uses that as an excuse to tell a 10-Year Rape/Incest that she must carry her attackers baby to term, then why do you cheer on people, including a child drowning in the Rio Grand because razor wire and buoys put in that river a governnor known his political show boating. IF you are so goddamned Pro-Fucking Life, you demand that governor remove barriers that are killing children. IF you think killing children in a river is so fucking great, then YOU ain't pro-life. You're just a racist xenophobe celebrating people being murdered for the color of their skin.

If you want to engage with me try talking like an adult.

 

[Tom Paine 1949]

I never equated them, I compared them. Escalation is the name of the game here. Democrats do one thing, Republicans respond by doing it a little bigger, then Democrats go even bigger, and Republicans go even bigger than that and on and on forever. It really doesn't matter who started it, but both parties have attacked the principle of the peaceful transfer of power to varying degrees over the last two-plus decades. Gore didn't do it as bad as Hillary or Trump, but he certainly laid the groundwork for both of them. You can't blame just Trump and ignore everything that came before him. I expect 2024, regardless of the result, will be worse than what we've seen thus far, or maybe we'll get a reprieve in 2024 but 2030 will be awful. I can't say for sure but it's a general pattern that's been fairly consistent over time.

I suppose I don't know what you mean by "Big Lie." That the election was stolen? I haven't seen any real evidence to suggest that the election in 2020 was stolen, as I'd define it. Was the election rigged? I think that's a different question and I think it fairly obviously was rigged against Trump. The security state, the corporate media, the Democratic Party, and portions of the GOP even conspired to protect Joe Biden from anything that might reflect poorly on him to help him defeat Trump. Does that bother me? Not in the sense of Trump's personal misfortune. The problem I see is that Trump still received a historic level of support in that election despite all of the shenanigans to disenfranchise him and his supporters, and if this is the new normal then what might those people resort to? If it's a concerted effort to keep them and their candidates out of the electoral system you might have a bigger problem then a couple of morons rioting in the Capitol. It's one thing for the system to disenfranchise libertarians like myself, we're small in number and don't necessarily see politics as the end goal, but millions upon millions of Trump supporters across the country? They're not just going to disappear.

There is a big difference between Trump’s demagogy and anything that preceded it. A big difference between his conduct in the presidency and what other Democrats (and Republicans) did in the past.

The “Trump Party” of cultists are indeed dangerous and I believe must be isolated politically and denounced. We must, all of us, actively denounce Trump’s anti-democratic attacks and coup attempts to overthrow the rule of law in our still living and mostly “free” capitalist Republic. I am as upset as anyone that things have come to this pass, and know the history full well, but it is not Democrats or traditional (“RINO”) Republicans, Libertarians or “Democratic Socialists” that now bears the blame for Trump’s conduct and must be fought.

Trump’s personal criminal conduct and cunning demagogy has brought the country to the brink of a crisis, and if we are to recover sanity and a reasonable civil political life here, the first order of business is to stop and politically destroy the threat Trump still represents. That isn’t just the opinion of some “Establishment” or “Deep State” conspiracy, but of all who can see plainly what he and his movement tried to do and wishes to do next.

 

[Kevin_Kennedy]

Again, if you need to mischaracterize the unprecedented contempt for democracy exhibited by the 2020 loser and his cult as merely a logical progression of the reactions of recent losers Gore, Kerry, Dole, Dukakis, McCain, Romney, Clinton, etc. and their supporters, I find the refusal to admit to the obvious exceptional aspects of 2020 to be irrational.

Yes, there have been sore losers in the past - Tilden in 1876 comes to mind - but 2020 is unprecedented as an attack upon democracy. There is no other way to spin it that is credible.

Then I guess we’ve reached an impasse.

 

[GMCGeneral]

Democrats will gladly eliminate the EC. The popular vote will be the deciding factor and the GOP will die a quick, painful death.

And all that will be left is a far Left socialist shithole complete with the one party rule you fuckers want.

 

[Kevin_Kennedy]

There is a big difference between Trump’s demagogy and anything that preceded it. A big difference between his conduct in the presidency and what other Democrats (and Republicans) did in the past.

The “Trump Party” of cultists are indeed dangerous and I believe must be isolated politically and denounced. We must, all of us, actively denounce Trump’s anti-democratic attacks and coup attempts to overthrow the rule of law in our still living and mostly “free” capitalist Republic. I am as upset as anyone that things have come to this pass, and know the history full well, but it is not Democrats or traditional (“RINO”) Republicans, Libertarians or “Democratic Socialists” that now bears the blame for Trump’s conduct and must be fought.

Trump’s personal criminal conduct and cunning demagogy has brought the country to the brink of a crisis, and if we are to recover sanity and a reasonable civil political life here, the first order of business is to stop and politically destroy the threat Trump still represents. That isn’t just the opinion of some “Establishment” or “Deep State” conspiracy, but of all who can see plainly what he and his movement tried to do and wishes to do next.

I agree there’s a difference in degree between what Gore did and what Trump did, but that one led to the other is obvious outside of a partisan lens. Democrats need Trump to be uniquely evil. I see Trump as an incompetent Hillary Clinton. He basically copied her playbook verbatim.

 

[White 6]

Here in Ohio, Trump won by 8 fucking points.

But, he lost in the majority of the country, then he tried to overthrow the election. At best he is a traitorous sonovabitch, and the country knows it, except for dumb ass trumper. Now they are prosecuting the crap out of him, just like his minions that filmed themselves attacking the Capital, many of them saying they were following his lead. He is UNELECTABLE, and will be one of the reasons the House of Representatives will be lost and the Dem majority in the Senate will increase. America just does not intend to live under the totalitarian cabal, of the trumper minority. Couple that with the unpopular move to stop all abortions and dictate women's healthcare and reproduction, whether they like or not, just because angry old white men saw a chance to have their way The party cannot be trusted to govern by the majority of the people. You are Fkd, but you have done it to yourselves. Minority rule does not work in a country that still has the vote.

 

[White 6]

Here in Ohio, Trump won by 8 fucking points.

But, he lost in the majority of the country, then he tried to overthrow the election. At best he is a traitorous sonovabitch, and the country knows it, except for dumb ass trumper. Now they are prosecuting the crap out of him, just like his minions that filmed themselves attacking the Capital, many of them saying they were following his lead. He is UNELECTABLE, and will be one of the reasons the House of Representatives will be lost and the Dem majority in the Senate will increase. America just does not intend to live under the totalitarian cabal, of the trumper minority. Couple that with the unpopular move to stop all abortions and dictate women's healthcare and reproduction, whether they like or not, just because angry old white men saw a chance to have their way The party cannot be trusted to govern by the majority of the people. You are Fkd, but you have done it to yourselves. Minority rule does not work in a country that still has the vote.

 

[White 6]

Ohio is beginning to look blue.

It is possible.

 

[Kevin_Kennedy]

It is possible.

I wouldn't bank on it.

 

[Muhammed]

But, he lost in the majority of the country, then he tried to overthrow the election. At best he is a traitorous sonovabitch, and the country knows it, except for dumb ass trumper. Now they are prosecuting the crap out of him, just like his minions that filmed themselves attacking the Capital, many of them saying they were following his lead. He is UNELECTABLE, and will be one of the reasons the House of Representatives will be lost and the Dem majority in the Senate will increase. America just does not intend to live under the totalitarian cabal, of the trumper minority. Couple that with the unpopular move to stop all abortions and dictate women's healthcare and reproduction, whether they like or not, just because angry old white men saw a chance to have their way The party cannot be trusted to govern by the majority of the people. You are Fkd, but you have done it to yourselves. Minority rule does not work in a country that still has the vote.

This thread has nothing to do with Trump. Your TDS is showing, delusional bitch.

 

[22lcidw]

What the truth is, is that more and more men will turn away from women. And they are. Let us send ten million prog women overseas and receive ten million overseas women in exchange. We can make all happier.

 

[0311]

If you want to engage with me try talking like an adult.

My argument is valid.

Pro-Life means exactly that.....Pro-Life.

Which means you, as a Pro-Life Conservative should the Governor of Texas remove the barriers he placed in Rio Grand that is killing people including children.

You do not get chose who does and does not have that right. It appears you think YOU have to who does and does not have that right.

 

[22lcidw]

But, he lost in the majority of the country, then he tried to overthrow the election. At best he is a traitorous sonovabitch, and the country knows it, except for dumb ass trumper. Now they are prosecuting the crap out of him, just like his minions that filmed themselves attacking the Capital, many of them saying they were following his lead. He is UNELECTABLE, and will be one of the reasons the House of Representatives will be lost and the Dem majority in the Senate will increase. America just does not intend to live under the totalitarian cabal, of the trumper minority. Couple that with the unpopular move to stop all abortions and dictate women's healthcare and reproduction, whether they like or not, just because angry old white men saw a chance to have their way The party cannot be trusted to govern by the majority of the people. You are Fkd, but you have done it to yourselves. Minority rule does not work in a country that still has the vote.

Just give the taxpayer their money. Notice Joe only shows up at privileged union events of the peasants. Joe and his ilk has wasted trillions and trillions of dollars and you love him.

 

[White 6]

This thread has nothing to do with Trump. Your TDS is showing, delusional bitch.

Then why did you bring up how many points Trump won Ohio, by. You should change your name to Jane.

 

[White 6]

Just give the taxpayer their money. Notice Joe only shows up at privileged union events of the peasants. Joe and his ilk has wasted trillions and trillions of dollars and you love him.

Have critized his policies or lack of, here many times. He is decidedly better than a traitor to the constitution he took an oath to. Joe will not make the vote of the people irrelevant. Trump might very well destroy the country for his own benefit.