OK, I'll admit it, our friends on the left are correct; there IS a catch to the Trump tax cuts

[francoHFW]

We don't do full-blown depressions anymore when the GOP f**** up again, we bailout the banks and financial institutions and have unemployment and Welfare go wild... Where you been, dupe world? Cost Obama 7 or 8 trillion dollars..

Who the hell knew that only Republicans made laws and policies over the last 80 plus years! My, they are the most powerful group ever! And to think, they MADE Obama spend money! Lol! Do you really believe all your BS?

Only the GOP makes stupid laws that cause Financial Bubbles and busts, dumbass. The amount of money spent on welfare and UE after the 2008 meltdown started out at 800 billion a year and still is 100 billion a year above what it would be otherwise, should head LOL

Can’t make them if they don’t hold a majority in Congress which they didn’t in the House from 1957-1997 nor did they in the Senate from 1957 to 1981. Wonder how it got passed to put on the President’s desks without the help of Democrats? Man are you a dupe.

Anymore on your claim about the United States being in a depression in 1989? Still standing by it? Got those links you claimed were out there?

It's true that the Democrats can't pass anything without 60 votes, but obviously Republicans can and it was a lot easier back then... You think only Fox tells the truth because you are a brainwashed functional moron.

And I don’t watch FOX hater dupe.

I can believe you don't watch any news at all LOL. The whole GOP propaganda machine it's all the same stuff...

Are you and Todd stir sock puppets because you are the most ridiculous people to debate with I've ever seen...

That s because we call you out on your lies. I could see why you dislike us.

Lies you told, 1989 there was a United States Depression, and have yet to provide a legit link to back up your claim.

You claimed it was the GOP that passed the St. Germain Act of 1982, the fact is a Democrat sponsored the bill and it was by far supported by more Democrats than Republicans.

Almost all economists claim there were several factors on both sides of the aisle that cause the 2008 meltdown.

You claim to be honest and then you spout half truths and lies. I am not debating you, I am schooling you, because you are a partisan dupe that can’t think for yourself and have to listen to your Democratic Party and throw up lies. I don’t believe either party has the high ground and look at stories at many angles, you just look to blindly blame.

Of course the Democrats have The High Ground... It's the only conclusion one can come to after study in the hole history of the last 50 years... Or all the way back to Wilson.

Are you and Todd stir sock puppets because you are the most ridiculous people to debate with I've ever seen...

That s because we call you out on your lies. I could see why you dislike us.

Lies you told, 1989 there was a United States Depression, and have yet to provide a legit link to back up your claim.

You claimed it was the GOP that passed the St. Germain Act of 1982, the fact is a Democrat sponsored the bill and it was by far supported by more Democrats than Republicans.

Almost all economists claim there were several factors on both sides of the aisle that cause the 2008 meltdown.

You claim to be honest and then you spout half truths and lies. I am not debating you, I am schooling you, because you are a partisan dupe that can’t think for yourself and have to listen to your Democratic Party and throw up lies. I don’t believe either party has the high ground and look at stories at many angles, you just look to blindly blame.

From the wiki article on st-germain Act...
The bill, whose full title was "An Act to revitalize the housing industry by strengthening the financial stability of home mortgage lending institutions and ensuring the availability of home mortgage loans," was a Reagan Administration initiative.[2]

The bill is named after its sponsors, Congressman Fernand St. Germain, Democratof Rhode Island, and Senator Jake Garn, Republican of Utah.

Considering your outlook you must be too young to understand that there used to be a honeymoon when the president was inaugurated and that for a while... So you're wrong again...

 

[GWV5903]

Anyway, it's pointless debating income tax with you idiots when you don't even know what income is. We have this idiot, Ray, who can't figure out what "income" is:

I didn't ask you if it was taxable, I asked you if it was income. You're the expert on the definition of "income," right? You tell me. Is it income?

Income is defined by the IRS and most importantly, by if it is taxable.

No, I don't think it's income. Even if the IRS said it was, who in the world would report finding cash???

The IRS did say so. And so did the courts.

Cesarini v. United States - Wikipedia

Between that and alimony, it sounds like you have no clue WTF you're talking about with your "capital or labor" bullshit. Those are just examples, as the definition indicates with its lack of commas. Even if you cherrypicked one definition of "income" from some dictionary that only listed labor and capital, it would just be cherrypicking. Everyone knows that "income" is basically "that which comes in" and generally wealth "comes in" when it changes hands/title. Just look at the damned word!

Followed by this genius who can't figure out that taxing inheritance as regular income to the recipient (the person getting the income) wouldn't tax an individual "multiply times" on the same money:

Any Inheritance Tax that is imposed is a minimum of Double Taxation, in other words it's called stealing...

Money generally gets taxed by income tax whenever it changes hands, like if you use your taxed wages to buy a bagel. The bagel salesman pays tax on his profit. Is that stealing, too?

If I leave my wife, children, niece or nephew what I have already earned, yes it's Double Taxation and it's stealing. If I am buying a good or services they are taxed, the difference is simple, I earned it and I am giving it to whom ever I want, I am not buying something. The Federal Government, State or Local has no business taxing an individual multiply times. Furthermore if it is such a just tax why not attach it to all monies instead of a select amount and higher?

And of course this jackass, who thinks income is only what you get from work or investments:

If you GET money from inheritance, it is income, just exempted from tax. Don't be an idiot.

I told him the same, don't be like bgrouse.

Someone said Trump got rich by working.

in·come
ˈinˌkəm/
noun

1. money received, for work or through investments.

Got it?

Not at all, what the real issue is, you believe the Feds can tax someones inheritance, again and again and again and again

Once again, the inheritance would be taxed once when the recipient receives the income, meeting your stringent requirement of "The Federal Government, State or Local has no business taxing an individual multiply times." If you don't think that's the case, then explain to me where this individual would get taxed not once, not twice, not thrice, but 4-5 times. I'm counting one time: when his father dies and he receives the inheritance.

because they succeeded financially and you think its not fair they have it and you don't, period, that's the simple truth you're not willing to admit. Instead of a civil debate you resort to calling anyone who doesn't agree with you an Idiot, what it says is very clear, you're not very happy with your own failures...

As for Income Taxes / Payroll Taxes (stay with me here, you have proven beyond a shadow of a doubt this is were you get lost) I am in favor of a Flat Tax, everyone contributes, no questions about it.

These are 2 totally different issues, act like a human and not a Civil Servant or worse a Democrat...

The DNC is now the Communist Party of America...

I'm calling you an idiot because that's precisely what you are given that you're stumbling over such simple matters as American income taxation basics and refusing to learn when taught.

 

[francoHFW]

Anyway, it's pointless debating income tax with you idiots when you don't even know what income is. We have this idiot, Ray, who can't figure out what "income" is:

Income is defined by the IRS and most importantly, by if it is taxable.

No, I don't think it's income. Even if the IRS said it was, who in the world would report finding cash???

The IRS did say so. And so did the courts.

Cesarini v. United States - Wikipedia

Between that and alimony, it sounds like you have no clue WTF you're talking about with your "capital or labor" bullshit. Those are just examples, as the definition indicates with its lack of commas. Even if you cherrypicked one definition of "income" from some dictionary that only listed labor and capital, it would just be cherrypicking. Everyone knows that "income" is basically "that which comes in" and generally wealth "comes in" when it changes hands/title. Just look at the damned word!

Followed by this genius who can't figure out that taxing inheritance as regular income to the recipient (the person getting the income) wouldn't tax an individual "multiply times" on the same money:

Money generally gets taxed by income tax whenever it changes hands, like if you use your taxed wages to buy a bagel. The bagel salesman pays tax on his profit. Is that stealing, too?

If I leave my wife, children, niece or nephew what I have already earned, yes it's Double Taxation and it's stealing. If I am buying a good or services they are taxed, the difference is simple, I earned it and I am giving it to whom ever I want, I am not buying something. The Federal Government, State or Local has no business taxing an individual multiply times. Furthermore if it is such a just tax why not attach it to all monies instead of a select amount and higher?

And of course this jackass, who thinks income is only what you get from work or investments:

If you GET money from inheritance, it is income, just exempted from tax. Don't be an idiot.

I told him the same, don't be like bgrouse.

Someone said Trump got rich by working.

in·come
ˈinˌkəm/
noun

1. money received, for work or through investments.

Got it?

Not at all, what the real issue is, you believe the Feds can tax someones inheritance, again and again and again and again

Once again, the inheritance would be taxed once when the recipient receives the income, meeting your stringent requirement of "The Federal Government, State or Local has no business taxing an individual multiply times." If you don't think that's the case, then explain to me where this individual would get taxed not once, not twice, not thrice, but 4-5 times. I'm counting one time: when his father dies and he receives the inheritance.

because they succeeded financially and you think its not fair they have it and you don't, period, that's the simple truth you're not willing to admit. Instead of a civil debate you resort to calling anyone who doesn't agree with you an Idiot, what it says is very clear, you're not very happy with your own failures...

As for Income Taxes / Payroll Taxes (stay with me here, you have proven beyond a shadow of a doubt this is were you get lost) I am in favor of a Flat Tax, everyone contributes, no questions about it.

These are 2 totally different issues, act like a human and not a Civil Servant or worse a Democrat...

The DNC is now the Communist Party of America...

I'm calling you an idiot because that's precisely what you are given that you're stumbling over such simple matters as American income taxation basics and refusing to learn when taught.

So the Democrats are for a dictatorship that owns all business and Industry LOL?

 

[francoHFW]

In May 1982 Ferdinand St. Germain a DEMOCRAT from Rhode Island introduced, the Democratic Party had 241 members and the GOP had 194. The Democrats vote 188 yeas and 16 nays, in contrast the GOP had 84 yeas and 75 nays.

The Senate passed the bill with a voice vote.

So why did a Democrat introduce the bill? Why did the large majority of Democrats vote yes? In fact without Democrats this wasn’t even a bill.

So take your partisan propaganda and lies and stuff it, you dishonest hack.

There was a republican sponsor and a Democrat sponsor and it was a Reagan administration idea. You have no idea what you're talking about LOL.

 

[Markle]

It all started with Depository Institutions Deregulation and Monetary Control Act of 1980 signed by Carter in order to help S&L to grow out of trouble that they were in already. It help them on a short run, and killed them later. Isn't that the way that every Democrat program works?

It started and ended with Republican regulation out of control as always d u h.

Right because Keating sent large campaign donations to Democrats because? Oh wait that screws up your narrative. Also the control of Congress was Democrat held in the House for 40 years and the Senate for 34 of the forty years but it was the Republican laws that got through Congress to cause the S&L problem? LOL! Your inability to look at both sides makes you the biggest dupe here, because I look at both sides and you ASSume it's the GOP's fault, pretty stupid thinking. You need to educate yourself, you don't know the what the definition of a Recession or a Depression is, you have no idea how government works and you just spew what ever the Democratic talking points tell you to spew. I can tell you were a teacher, you are basically clueless.

Who said anything about laws? It's Republican crony oversight where the Republicans are a joke... After that you're just totally full of s***LOL. Perhaps the S&L bust was just a gigantic recession and meltdown of the banking system congratulations Miss the point much?

Perhaps the S&L bust was just a gigantic recession

View attachment 169646

Real Gross Domestic Product

Why don't you point out the giant recession (not a depression anymore?....DERP!) we had in 1989?

And only cost a couple trillion dollars of bailouts and assistance to victims to keep it that way d u h. I got laid off in 1991 and got 72 weeks of unemployment....

Wow, that's embarrassing!

 

[Papageorgio]

Who the hell knew that only Republicans made laws and policies over the last 80 plus years! My, they are the most powerful group ever! And to think, they MADE Obama spend money! Lol! Do you really believe all your BS?

Only the GOP makes stupid laws that cause Financial Bubbles and busts, dumbass. The amount of money spent on welfare and UE after the 2008 meltdown started out at 800 billion a year and still is 100 billion a year above what it would be otherwise, should head LOL

Can’t make them if they don’t hold a majority in Congress which they didn’t in the House from 1957-1997 nor did they in the Senate from 1957 to 1981. Wonder how it got passed to put on the President’s desks without the help of Democrats? Man are you a dupe.

Anymore on your claim about the United States being in a depression in 1989? Still standing by it? Got those links you claimed were out there?

It's true that the Democrats can't pass anything without 60 votes, but obviously Republicans can and it was a lot easier back then... You think only Fox tells the truth because you are a brainwashed functional moron.

And I don’t watch FOX hater dupe.

I can believe you don't watch any news at all LOL. The whole GOP propaganda machine it's all the same stuff...

Are you and Todd stir sock puppets because you are the most ridiculous people to debate with I've ever seen...

That s because we call you out on your lies. I could see why you dislike us.

Lies you told, 1989 there was a United States Depression, and have yet to provide a legit link to back up your claim.

You claimed it was the GOP that passed the St. Germain Act of 1982, the fact is a Democrat sponsored the bill and it was by far supported by more Democrats than Republicans.

Almost all economists claim there were several factors on both sides of the aisle that cause the 2008 meltdown.

You claim to be honest and then you spout half truths and lies. I am not debating you, I am schooling you, because you are a partisan dupe that can’t think for yourself and have to listen to your Democratic Party and throw up lies. I don’t believe either party has the high ground and look at stories at many angles, you just look to blindly blame.

Of course the Democrats have The High Ground... It's the only conclusion one can come to after study in the hole history of the last 50 years... Or all the way back to Wilson.

Are you and Todd stir sock puppets because you are the most ridiculous people to debate with I've ever seen...

That s because we call you out on your lies. I could see why you dislike us.

Lies you told, 1989 there was a United States Depression, and have yet to provide a legit link to back up your claim.

You claimed it was the GOP that passed the St. Germain Act of 1982, the fact is a Democrat sponsored the bill and it was by far supported by more Democrats than Republicans.

Almost all economists claim there were several factors on both sides of the aisle that cause the 2008 meltdown.

You claim to be honest and then you spout half truths and lies. I am not debating you, I am schooling you, because you are a partisan dupe that can’t think for yourself and have to listen to your Democratic Party and throw up lies. I don’t believe either party has the high ground and look at stories at many angles, you just look to blindly blame.

From the wiki article on st-germain Act...
The bill, whose full title was "An Act to revitalize the housing industry by strengthening the financial stability of home mortgage lending institutions and ensuring the availability of home mortgage loans," was a Reagan Administration initiative.[2]

The bill is named after its sponsors, Congressman Fernand St. Germain, Democratof Rhode Island, and Senator Jake Garn, Republican of Utah.

Considering your outlook you must be too young to understand that there used to be a honeymoon when the president was inaugurated and that for a while... So you're wrong again...

You are a complete idiot, if a Democrat came and shot you you’d blame a Republican. You spout the stupidest and selective nonsense ever spewed. A bigger dupe than you would be hard to find.

I line up in the middle, I didn’t vote for Trump, I disagree with some of Trumps policies, I am for higher taxes and less spending but I tow the GOP party line? You are again the dumbest person on this board. I seriously doubt you were a teacher, because if you were you seriously messed kids up with your political stupidity.

Schooling you over and over and over again just helps everyone see what a dishonest prick is.

 

[Papageorgio]

In May 1982 Ferdinand St. Germain a DEMOCRAT from Rhode Island introduced, the Democratic Party had 241 members and the GOP had 194. The Democrats vote 188 yeas and 16 nays, in contrast the GOP had 84 yeas and 75 nays.

The Senate passed the bill with a voice vote.

So why did a Democrat introduce the bill? Why did the large majority of Democrats vote yes? In fact without Democrats this wasn’t even a bill.

So take your partisan propaganda and lies and stuff it, you dishonest hack.

There was a republican sponsor and a Democrat sponsor and it was a Reagan administration idea. You have no idea what you're talking about LOL.

And more Democrats voted for it than Republicans dupe! You are a dense one.

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

1991 was a mild recession. There was no recession or depression in 1989.
Trillions weren't needed for anything in 1989.

Because there was a bailout in 1989 but it wasn't enough and the economy continue to bottom out until 1991, dumbass. A recession that lasts for 2 years is called a depression. Especially when the third of savings and loans go out of business....

Because there was a bailout in 1989 but it wasn't enough and the economy continue to bottom out until 1991,

View attachment 169709

DERP!

A recession that lasts for 2 years is called a depression.

View attachment 169710

Real Gross Domestic Product

What do you call on that lasts 2 quarters?

It was the worst Financial meltdown since the Great Depression and the Republicans did it again, obviously. Take your irrelevant nit picking on the road, super dupe.

Yeah, it was just awful!!
Just look at the impact it had on real GDP.....

View attachment 169715

Look at those zero quarters of negative GDP.

Now who was that moron who claimed we had a depression in 1989?

1989 through 1992 I said, jackass.
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.ao...al-meltdown-vs-savings-loan-crisis-recession/

Yes, your stupid depression claim is stupid, no matter how long the non-depression didn't last.

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

While most of us were alive 20 years ago, peoples' memories of the savings and loan crisis of the early 1990s have faded. But more than 1,000 so-called savings & loans -- banks specifically set up to lend out their deposits to people buying houses -- failed in the late 1980s and early 1990s due to a change in regulation that permitted S&Ls to take big risks. Bailing them out ultimately cost the federal government $220 billion.

By contrast, bailing out Wall Street and the U.S. auto industry through the Troubled Asset Relief Program from the recent crisis is expected, when all is tallied, to cost the government $105 billion -- or maybe $11 billion less if the TARP gets shut down three months early to satisfy concerns Sen. Scott Brown (R-Mass.) had about the pending financial reform bill, according to The New York Times.

Does that mean that the current financial crisis was half as bad? Not bloody likely.

S&L Bailout 101

As a quick refresher, the S&L crisis sprang from the passage in 1982 under President Ronald Reagan of The Garn-St. Germain Act -- which freed S&Ls to make risky loans, eliminate deposit caps, and hold less capital. S&Ls used their new freedom to pay higher rates to depositors and invested those new deposits in commercial real estate projects and junk bonds.

While they earned high up-front fees for the S&Ls, these investments ultimately collapsed, leaving about a thousand insolvent S&Ls. Reagan's successor, George H.W. Bush, had the pleasure of overseeing what was then the biggest bailout in U.S. history -- the $220 billion S&L bailout, according to nonprofit news company ProPublica.

Compared to the S&L bailout, the recent financial crisis is looking like a bargain. Treasury is now forecasting that TARP will cost far less than the S&L crisis did. The Times reports that a mere $386 billion worth of TARP money was actually spent (a bit more than half the original $700 billion authorized). Big banks have repaid roughly half of that $386 billion.

And the TARP losses are not likely to come from Wall Street -- the originally intended recipients of the government funds -- but from the auto industry, which got $80 billion from the program, and insurance giant American International Group (AIG), which received $48 billion from TARP -- and another $134.3 billion from other government programs.

A Failure to Learn the Lessons of Deregulation

What both the S&L crisis and current financial crisis share are their root causes: Clever manipulation of the banking system that allowed financial firms to reap huge profits while shifting the risks, and ultimately the costs, onto taxpayers. Deregulation allowed S&Ls to deviate dramatically from their fiscally conservative missions, and that deviation led them to create all sorts of investments that purported to generate higher returns but were really just bad deals.

The current financial crisis springs from many sources -- not the least of which are government's failure to limit Wall Street borrowing, to cut the financial ties between ratings agencies and investment banks, and to put bankers' pay in escrow so they can get rewarded or punished based on the long-term performance of the deals they close.

But as I wrote back in December 2007 on DailyFinance's sister site, BloggingStocks, the current financial crisis is above all the first one that sprang from securitization. It was those bundles of securities backed by mortgages -- many of which were sub-prime -- that ultimately ended up being impossible to price in a cash crisis that caused so much grief. Like commercial real estate in the 1980s, securitization was seen as a safe way to get high returns -- until things went bust, and the securities' values plunged far below what bankers had predicted.

By contrast, bailing out Wall Street and the U.S. auto industry through the Troubled Asset Relief Program from the recent crisis is expected, when all is tallied, to cost the government $105 billion

Bank TARP made profits for the US Treasury. Over $50 billion.

As a quick refresher, the S&L crisis sprang from the passage in 1982 under President Ronald Reagan of The Garn-St. Germain Act -- which freed S&Ls to make risky loans, eliminate deposit caps, and hold less capital. S&Ls used their new freedom to pay higher rates to depositors and invested those new deposits in commercial real estate projects and junk bonds. ​

Darn that Reagan.......​

The bill is named after its sponsors, Congressman Fernand St. Germain, Democrat of Rhode Island, and Senator Jake Garn, Republican of Utah. The bill had broad support in Congress, with co-sponsors including Charles Schumer and Steny Hoyer.[3] The bill passed overwhelmingly, by a margin of 272–91 in the House.[4]

Garn–St. Germain Depository Institutions Act - Wikipedia

Wait, Schumer and Hoyer? DERP!

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

Are you and Todd stir sock puppets because you are the most ridiculous people to debate with I've ever seen...

Pointing out your idiocy makes us ridiculous.......DERP!

 

[francoHFW]

Only the GOP makes stupid laws that cause Financial Bubbles and busts, dumbass. The amount of money spent on welfare and UE after the 2008 meltdown started out at 800 billion a year and still is 100 billion a year above what it would be otherwise, should head LOL

Can’t make them if they don’t hold a majority in Congress which they didn’t in the House from 1957-1997 nor did they in the Senate from 1957 to 1981. Wonder how it got passed to put on the President’s desks without the help of Democrats? Man are you a dupe.

Anymore on your claim about the United States being in a depression in 1989? Still standing by it? Got those links you claimed were out there?

It's true that the Democrats can't pass anything without 60 votes, but obviously Republicans can and it was a lot easier back then... You think only Fox tells the truth because you are a brainwashed functional moron.

And I don’t watch FOX hater dupe.

I can believe you don't watch any news at all LOL. The whole GOP propaganda machine it's all the same stuff...

Are you and Todd stir sock puppets because you are the most ridiculous people to debate with I've ever seen...

That s because we call you out on your lies. I could see why you dislike us.

Lies you told, 1989 there was a United States Depression, and have yet to provide a legit link to back up your claim.

You claimed it was the GOP that passed the St. Germain Act of 1982, the fact is a Democrat sponsored the bill and it was by far supported by more Democrats than Republicans.

Almost all economists claim there were several factors on both sides of the aisle that cause the 2008 meltdown.

You claim to be honest and then you spout half truths and lies. I am not debating you, I am schooling you, because you are a partisan dupe that can’t think for yourself and have to listen to your Democratic Party and throw up lies. I don’t believe either party has the high ground and look at stories at many angles, you just look to blindly blame.

Of course the Democrats have The High Ground... It's the only conclusion one can come to after study in the hole history of the last 50 years... Or all the way back to Wilson.

Are you and Todd stir sock puppets because you are the most ridiculous people to debate with I've ever seen...

That s because we call you out on your lies. I could see why you dislike us.

Lies you told, 1989 there was a United States Depression, and have yet to provide a legit link to back up your claim.

You claimed it was the GOP that passed the St. Germain Act of 1982, the fact is a Democrat sponsored the bill and it was by far supported by more Democrats than Republicans.

Almost all economists claim there were several factors on both sides of the aisle that cause the 2008 meltdown.

You claim to be honest and then you spout half truths and lies. I am not debating you, I am schooling you, because you are a partisan dupe that can’t think for yourself and have to listen to your Democratic Party and throw up lies. I don’t believe either party has the high ground and look at stories at many angles, you just look to blindly blame.

From the wiki article on st-germain Act...
The bill, whose full title was "An Act to revitalize the housing industry by strengthening the financial stability of home mortgage lending institutions and ensuring the availability of home mortgage loans," was a Reagan Administration initiative.[2]

The bill is named after its sponsors, Congressman Fernand St. Germain, Democratof Rhode Island, and Senator Jake Garn, Republican of Utah.

Considering your outlook you must be too young to understand that there used to be a honeymoon when the president was inaugurated and that for a while... So you're wrong again...

You are a complete idiot, if a Democrat came and shot you you’d blame a Republican. You spout the stupidest and selective nonsense ever spewed. A bigger dupe than you would be hard to find.

I line up in the middle, I didn’t vote for Trump, I disagree with some of Trumps policies, I am for higher taxes and less spending but I tow the GOP party line? You are again the dumbest person on this board. I seriously doubt you were a teacher, because if you were you seriously messed kids up with your political stupidity.

Schooling you over and over and over again just helps everyone see what a dishonest prick is.

You said it was a democratic bill. You are an ignorant brainwashed fool. Just a typical GOP voter in other words.

 

[francoHFW]

In May 1982 Ferdinand St. Germain a DEMOCRAT from Rhode Island introduced, the Democratic Party had 241 members and the GOP had 194. The Democrats vote 188 yeas and 16 nays, in contrast the GOP had 84 yeas and 75 nays.

The Senate passed the bill with a voice vote.

So why did a Democrat introduce the bill? Why did the large majority of Democrats vote yes? In fact without Democrats this wasn’t even a bill.

So take your partisan propaganda and lies and stuff it, you dishonest hack.

There was a republican sponsor and a Democrat sponsor and it was a Reagan administration idea. You have no idea what you're talking about LOL.

And more Democrats voted for it than Republicans dupe! You are a dense one.

As I said, silly dupe, this was when Democrats would have a honeymoon With a new president. Now we finally know better than to try and get along with the bought off new BS GOP.

 

[francoHFW]

Are you and Todd stir sock puppets because you are the most ridiculous people to debate with I've ever seen...

Pointing out your idiocy makes us ridiculous.......DERP!

Yep you're right the S and L crisis never happened. LOL whether it was a horrible Financial meltdown, a Great Recession, or depression, it cost a hell of a lot of money and ruined the country for several years. Another great job, scumbag GOP and silly dupes.

 

[francoHFW]

While most of us were alive 20 years ago, peoples' memories of the savings and loan crisis of the early 1990s have faded. But more than 1,000 so-called savings & loans -- banks specifically set up to lend out their deposits to people buying houses -- failed in the late 1980s and early 1990s due to a change in regulation that permitted S&Ls to take big risks. Bailing them out ultimately cost the federal government $220 billion.

By contrast, bailing out Wall Street and the U.S. auto industry through the Troubled Asset Relief Program from the recent crisis is expected, when all is tallied, to cost the government $105 billion -- or maybe $11 billion less if the TARP gets shut down three months early to satisfy concerns Sen. Scott Brown (R-Mass.) had about the pending financial reform bill, according to The New York Times.

Does that mean that the current financial crisis was half as bad? Not bloody likely.

S&L Bailout 101

As a quick refresher, the S&L crisis sprang from the passage in 1982 under President Ronald Reagan of The Garn-St. Germain Act -- which freed S&Ls to make risky loans, eliminate deposit caps, and hold less capital. S&Ls used their new freedom to pay higher rates to depositors and invested those new deposits in commercial real estate projects and junk bonds.

While they earned high up-front fees for the S&Ls, these investments ultimately collapsed, leaving about a thousand insolvent S&Ls. Reagan's successor, George H.W. Bush, had the pleasure of overseeing what was then the biggest bailout in U.S. history -- the $220 billion S&L bailout, according to nonprofit news company ProPublica.

Compared to the S&L bailout, the recent financial crisis is looking like a bargain. Treasury is now forecasting that TARP will cost far less than the S&L crisis did. The Times reports that a mere $386 billion worth of TARP money was actually spent (a bit more than half the original $700 billion authorized). Big banks have repaid roughly half of that $386 billion.

And the TARP losses are not likely to come from Wall Street -- the originally intended recipients of the government funds -- but from the auto industry, which got $80 billion from the program, and insurance giant American International Group (AIG), which received $48 billion from TARP -- and another $134.3 billion from other government programs.

A Failure to Learn the Lessons of Deregulation

What both the S&L crisis and current financial crisis share are their root causes: Clever manipulation of the banking system that allowed financial firms to reap huge profits while shifting the risks, and ultimately the costs, onto taxpayers. Deregulation allowed S&Ls to deviate dramatically from their fiscally conservative missions, and that deviation led them to create all sorts of investments that purported to generate higher returns but were really just bad deals.

The current financial crisis springs from many sources -- not the least of which are government's failure to limit Wall Street borrowing, to cut the financial ties between ratings agencies and investment banks, and to put bankers' pay in escrow so they can get rewarded or punished based on the long-term performance of the deals they close.

But as I wrote back in December 2007 on DailyFinance's sister site, BloggingStocks, the current financial crisis is above all the first one that sprang from securitization. It was those bundles of securities backed by mortgages -- many of which were sub-prime -- that ultimately ended up being impossible to price in a cash crisis that caused so much grief. Like commercial real estate in the 1980s, securitization was seen as a safe way to get high returns -- until things went bust, and the securities' values plunged far below what bankers had predicted.

By contrast, bailing out Wall Street and the U.S. auto industry through the Troubled Asset Relief Program from the recent crisis is expected, when all is tallied, to cost the government $105 billion

Bank TARP made profits for the US Treasury. Over $50 billion.

As a quick refresher, the S&L crisis sprang from the passage in 1982 under President Ronald Reagan of The Garn-St. Germain Act -- which freed S&Ls to make risky loans, eliminate deposit caps, and hold less capital. S&Ls used their new freedom to pay higher rates to depositors and invested those new deposits in commercial real estate projects and junk bonds.

Darn that Reagan.......​

The bill is named after its sponsors, Congressman Fernand St. Germain, Democrat of Rhode Island, and Senator Jake Garn, Republican of Utah. The bill had broad support in Congress, with co-sponsors including Charles Schumer and Steny Hoyer.[3] The bill passed overwhelmingly, by a margin of 272–91 in the House.[4]

Garn–St. Germain Depository Institutions Act - Wikipedia

Wait, Schumer and Hoyer? DERP!

way to edit out that it was a Reagan initiative and a stupid idea, but Democrats went along as it was the honeymoon. Too bad Republicans have never done that in my memory.

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

Are you and Todd stir sock puppets because you are the most ridiculous people to debate with I've ever seen...

Pointing out your idiocy makes us ridiculous.......DERP!

Yep you're right the S and L crisis never happened. LOL whether it was a horrible Financial meltdown, a Great Recession, or depression, it cost a hell of a lot of money and ruined the country for several years. Another great job, scumbag GOP and silly dupes.

Yep you're right the S and L crisis never happened.

It most certainly happened.
But there was no recession in 1989.
There for damn sure was no depression in 1989.

it cost a hell of a lot of money

Yup.

and ruined the country for several years.

Not even close. Twit.

 

[Papageorgio]

Can’t make them if they don’t hold a majority in Congress which they didn’t in the House from 1957-1997 nor did they in the Senate from 1957 to 1981. Wonder how it got passed to put on the President’s desks without the help of Democrats? Man are you a dupe.

Anymore on your claim about the United States being in a depression in 1989? Still standing by it? Got those links you claimed were out there?

It's true that the Democrats can't pass anything without 60 votes, but obviously Republicans can and it was a lot easier back then... You think only Fox tells the truth because you are a brainwashed functional moron.

And I don’t watch FOX hater dupe.

I can believe you don't watch any news at all LOL. The whole GOP propaganda machine it's all the same stuff...

Are you and Todd stir sock puppets because you are the most ridiculous people to debate with I've ever seen...

That s because we call you out on your lies. I could see why you dislike us.

Lies you told, 1989 there was a United States Depression, and have yet to provide a legit link to back up your claim.

You claimed it was the GOP that passed the St. Germain Act of 1982, the fact is a Democrat sponsored the bill and it was by far supported by more Democrats than Republicans.

Almost all economists claim there were several factors on both sides of the aisle that cause the 2008 meltdown.

You claim to be honest and then you spout half truths and lies. I am not debating you, I am schooling you, because you are a partisan dupe that can’t think for yourself and have to listen to your Democratic Party and throw up lies. I don’t believe either party has the high ground and look at stories at many angles, you just look to blindly blame.

Of course the Democrats have The High Ground... It's the only conclusion one can come to after study in the hole history of the last 50 years... Or all the way back to Wilson.

Are you and Todd stir sock puppets because you are the most ridiculous people to debate with I've ever seen...

That s because we call you out on your lies. I could see why you dislike us.

Lies you told, 1989 there was a United States Depression, and have yet to provide a legit link to back up your claim.

You claimed it was the GOP that passed the St. Germain Act of 1982, the fact is a Democrat sponsored the bill and it was by far supported by more Democrats than Republicans.

Almost all economists claim there were several factors on both sides of the aisle that cause the 2008 meltdown.

You claim to be honest and then you spout half truths and lies. I am not debating you, I am schooling you, because you are a partisan dupe that can’t think for yourself and have to listen to your Democratic Party and throw up lies. I don’t believe either party has the high ground and look at stories at many angles, you just look to blindly blame.

From the wiki article on st-germain Act...
The bill, whose full title was "An Act to revitalize the housing industry by strengthening the financial stability of home mortgage lending institutions and ensuring the availability of home mortgage loans," was a Reagan Administration initiative.[2]

The bill is named after its sponsors, Congressman Fernand St. Germain, Democratof Rhode Island, and Senator Jake Garn, Republican of Utah.

Considering your outlook you must be too young to understand that there used to be a honeymoon when the president was inaugurated and that for a while... So you're wrong again...

You are a complete idiot, if a Democrat came and shot you you’d blame a Republican. You spout the stupidest and selective nonsense ever spewed. A bigger dupe than you would be hard to find.

I line up in the middle, I didn’t vote for Trump, I disagree with some of Trumps policies, I am for higher taxes and less spending but I tow the GOP party line? You are again the dumbest person on this board. I seriously doubt you were a teacher, because if you were you seriously messed kids up with your political stupidity.

Schooling you over and over and over again just helps everyone see what a dishonest prick is.

You said it was a democratic bill. You are an ignorant brainwashed fool. Just a typical GOP voter in other words.

It was! The person that introduced the bill in the House was a Democrat, not a Republican, a DEMOCRAT. Please try to keep up.

 

[Papageorgio]

In May 1982 Ferdinand St. Germain a DEMOCRAT from Rhode Island introduced, the Democratic Party had 241 members and the GOP had 194. The Democrats vote 188 yeas and 16 nays, in contrast the GOP had 84 yeas and 75 nays.

The Senate passed the bill with a voice vote.

So why did a Democrat introduce the bill? Why did the large majority of Democrats vote yes? In fact without Democrats this wasn’t even a bill.

So take your partisan propaganda and lies and stuff it, you dishonest hack.

There was a republican sponsor and a Democrat sponsor and it was a Reagan administration idea. You have no idea what you're talking about LOL.

And more Democrats voted for it than Republicans dupe! You are a dense one.

As I said, silly dupe, this was when Democrats would have a honeymoon With a new president. Now we finally know better than to try and get along with the bought off new BS GOP.

BS and you absolutely know it. 188 Democrats said yea and only 16 said nay, on the GOP side 84 said yea and 75 said nay. So for it to be a freakin honeymoon as you erroneously claim then you would probbably see less GOP resistance and more Democratic resistance, it was the other way around, so spare me your silly propaganda. Only 16 DEMOCRATS said NAY.

Your lying is getting old and you sound more and more like a idiot every minute. Layoff the lying, you sound like Obama and Pelosi.

 

[francoHFW]

You guys are ignorant useless irrelevant jackasses. Later much... How old are you 20?

 

[Papageorgio]

You guys are ignorant useless irrelevant jackasses. Later much... How old are you 20?

Poor hater dupe, you are getting schooled and now throwing a fit. Grow up nutter dupe.

 

[francoHFW]

Are you and Todd stir sock puppets because you are the most ridiculous people to debate with I've ever seen...

Pointing out your idiocy makes us ridiculous.......DERP!

Yep you're right the S and L crisis never happened. LOL whether it was a horrible Financial meltdown, a Great Recession, or depression, it cost a hell of a lot of money and ruined the country for several years. Another great job, scumbag GOP and silly dupes.

Yep you're right the S and L crisis never happened.

It most certainly happened.
But there was no recession in 1989.
There for damn sure was no depression in 1989.

it cost a hell of a lot of money

Yup.

and ruined the country for several years.

Not even close. Twit.

So it was just the recession and then in 1991 it was a depression duh... How many days can you keep up this nitpicking LOL? God what a waste of time... Every time in the last hundred years the GOP has had 8 years in office they've had a corrupt meltdown. And they're working on it again, dupe.