OK Tea Party....Time to belly up to the bar

[Cuyo]

Outside of Constitutional mandates, if a job can't survive in the private sector, it's probably not necessary.

Can you be specific and say who and what you would cut? It would also help if you said what would happen with the people affected by your cuts

The National Endowment for the Arts. If an artist can't get people to buy his art voluntarily, he probably shouldn't be an artist.

The Department of Education. Its functions should be returned to state and local government where they belong.

The Department of Housing and Urban Development. Ever see a housing project? Do you think they're doing a good job? I don't.

Amtrak. If it can't operate on revenues generated by ridership, it needs to be turned over to private enterprise, who can make it work.

All farm subsidies. It's obscene that people are paid to not farm.

As for finding work for the displaced bureaucrats, the government is not a jobs program.

How do you think you did? Is that $1.3 trillion worth? Do we have our balanced budget?

And I know the government is not supposed to be a jobs program, but it doesn't change the fact that unemployment would rise and we'd all suffer as a consequence...

 

[Intense]

List the propaganda.

The Uptake: Senator Al Franken at Dayton Rally | Al Franken - U.S. Senator, Minnesota

You're a lazy debater. Or you just don't know how to debate.

You claimed that the accomplishments I listed were propaganda. List which accomplishment is propaganda, and why.

Use your own words. Don't just post a link.

Fail, I questioned your ability to separate propaganda from reality. You presumed I was limited to what was on your list. Who profits on all of the Credit Card loans along with the bank? Who is the Banks silent partner? Who benefits when you get insurance coverage but your claim or procedure is denied. Do you really believe that the Government just mandates stuff in your interest and it's done. Think smoke screen, or bait and switch. Government pretty much gets funded or profits on every side of the equation, every time money changes hands, fast or slow. So it really isn't about the money, but about the control. Tell me, when you shop, do you wait for the sales to end? No You purchase when it is more to your advantage not less. The same holds for business spending, both business and Government profit from both volume and keeping the lines of supply running, government getting a cut in one form or another, every step of the way. Yet, it is never enough, and Government workers are never over paid, no matter whether their job is relevant or not. School Tuitions. How much do you think those tuitions would drop if there was a 50% drop in enrollment? What's the interest on that Federal Student loan? Does the Fed risk that you won't pay, like a financial Institution? No, they will track you to your grave? How come the interest on your student loan is not greed? It is Profit, right? Why is the interest so high. Hmmmm...... Socialism is not compatible with Federalism. That is what I have against your reasoning. Everything of value has to come from someone or something. Somebody paid the true cost.

 

[Intense]

But They Can Challenge Jurisdiction and Constitutional Application, and what it really say's as opposed to what we think it says. The Key here is Due Process and The Rule of Law.

Of course they can..which is why there are ways to do so. Doesn't mean they are right or even have the standing.

Constitutional Interpretation, as it stands now, is only what a standing Supreme Court say's it is, that can sadly be subject to arbitrary rulings and translations, which can be just as arbitrarily reversed. That is where the Amendment Process comes in. There is No Law more Powerful. The States can have a very important role in that. Personally, I would love to see the abomination of what was done to the "Commerce Claus", addressed. Again, Power gone wild.

Well yes..but I disagree with your example.

Back on point. You are grossly misinformed. The Federal Government has It's Jurisdiction, The States have Their Jurisdiction. You forget that. Living in the present, understand that there is immense power there. The Obama Administration is going to learn that the hard way, if it continues to deal with Arizona underhandedly.

Not misinformed at all. The Federal government's jurisdiction is over the states. Obama is on solid legal ground in challenging Arizona's immigration law. Immigration falls under the powers of Congress not the states.

You are free to disagree with my example, as much hardship as it causes, there are views on both sides. The Federal Government does not have jurisdiction of everything regarding the States. They never had that. The term Enumerated Powers, though damaged from the start, does restrict Federal Jurisdiction, authority, and recourse. The Fed is not All Powerful even though at times it may think so. You Implied that the States have no right or ability to challenge the Fed. That is flawed. The Fed has also acted poorly with Arizona on multiple fronts. Don't expect the Various Governors around the country to not take note.

 

[rightwinger]

In the Spirit of Federalism, I'm really looking forward to seeing what the States come up with.

The States have no money. They are in worse shape than the Federal Government

 

[rightwinger]

Outside of Constitutional mandates, if a job can't survive in the private sector, it's probably not necessary.

Can you be specific and say who and what you would cut? It would also help if you said what would happen with the people affected by your cuts

The National Endowment for the Arts. If an artist can't get people to buy his art voluntarily, he probably shouldn't be an artist.

The Department of Education. Its functions should be returned to state and local government where they belong.

The Department of Housing and Urban Development. Ever see a housing project? Do you think they're doing a good job? I don't.

Amtrak. If it can't operate on revenues generated by ridership, it needs to be turned over to private enterprise, who can make it work.

All farm subsidies. It's obscene that people are paid to not farm.

As for finding work for the displaced bureaucrats, the government is not a jobs program.

Thanks Dave....you seem more capable of specifics than the Tea Party

NEA is literally pennies. Not worth the bandwidth in a serious discussion of cutting spending
Deptartment of Education could be reduced to a shell (it has 5000 employees now) and its funtions allocated to the states. This saves no money. It only shifts it to the states
HUD does more than housing projects and all its functions would have to be shifted to the state level. Taking money out of my right pocket instead of my left
Private enterprise can't save Amtrak, all they want is the Boston-NY-Washington run. Congress forced unprofitable runs through Red States which lose money.
Farm subsidies- cut them

You still don't have $1.3 Trillion in cuts yet, you are still about $1 trillion short. You have killed the programs liberals like, now you will hae to go after some conservative programs.

 

[Sallow]

You are free to disagree with my example, as much hardship as it causes, there are views on both sides. The Federal Government does not have jurisdiction of everything regarding the States. They never had that. The term Enumerated Powers, though damaged from the start, does restrict Federal Jurisdiction, authority, and recourse. The Fed is not All Powerful even though at times it may think so. You Implied that the States have no right or ability to challenge the Fed. That is flawed. The Fed has also acted poorly with Arizona on multiple fronts. Don't expect the Various Governors around the country to not take note.

I never implied that states do not have the power to challenge the federal government. And this whole "limited government" argument is one I find specious coming from conservatives. They seem to have no trouble with a centrally controlled military that invades other countries despite the fact there is no real reason to do so. They seem to have no trouble with a government that spies on it's own citizens, suspends rights, or tortures people. They also have no problem with corporate entities being looked upon as citizens with limited liability in a court of law. But somehow..if the government is actually doing something like Health care..which does fall under promotion of commerce and general welfare..then it's infringing on "states rights". That's a little on the crazy side.

 

[Intense]

Nuclear, coal, waste fuels, ethanol, wind, solar....

Drill baby....drill

The Feds aren't doing anything with fossil fuels except pushing away from them.

None of that other stuff is viable for an advanced nation of 300,000,000 people.

Drill baby...... drill

We don't need Energy Research!

I know, they should get a room. Research is good. Balance is better.

 

[Intense]

Federalism is what The Constitution Establishes. We are a Federal Republic. The Civil War did not take away the Federal Republic. It did not cease to be because of the failed succession of the South. What is with you? What about Representative Government scares you so much?

Nothing.

What scares you about it? The Constitution establishes representative government. The congress passes legislation that must be followed by the states. The states are granted a certain amount of autonomy to deal with regional affairs. For example, prostitution is legal in Nevada..but not in New York.

But states can't start challenging Constitutional supremacy. That's in there as well.

Why does that scare you?

But They Can Challenge Jurisdiction and Constitutional Application, and what it really say's as opposed to what we think it says. The Key here is Due Process and The Rule of Law. Constitutional Interpretation, as it stands now, is only what a standing Supreme Court say's it is, that can sadly be subject to arbitrary rulings and translations, which can be just as arbitrarily reversed. That is where the Amendment Process comes in. There is No Law more Powerful. The States can have a very important role in that. Personally, I would love to see the abomination of what was done to the "Commerce Claus", addressed. Again, Power gone wild. Back on point. You are grossly misinformed. The Federal Government has It's Jurisdiction, The States have Their Jurisdiction. You forget that. Living in the present, understand that there is immense power there. The Obama Administration is going to learn that the hard way, if it continues to deal with Arizona underhandedly.

There is what you said, I'll give it a pass because I know what you meant. Just remember that using due process and reform, there are no guarantees. That is not always good, so we all really need to be vigilant and be careful about what we ask for.

 

[Intense]

You are free to disagree with my example, as much hardship as it causes, there are views on both sides. The Federal Government does not have jurisdiction of everything regarding the States. They never had that. The term Enumerated Powers, though damaged from the start, does restrict Federal Jurisdiction, authority, and recourse. The Fed is not All Powerful even though at times it may think so. You Implied that the States have no right or ability to challenge the Fed. That is flawed. The Fed has also acted poorly with Arizona on multiple fronts. Don't expect the Various Governors around the country to not take note.

I never implied that states do not have the power to challenge the federal government. And this whole "limited government" argument is one I find specious coming from conservatives. They seem to have no trouble with a centrally controlled military that invades other countries despite the fact there is no real reason to do so. They seem to have no trouble with a government that spies on it's own citizens, suspends rights, or tortures people. They also have no problem with corporate entities being looked upon as citizens with limited liability in a court of law. But somehow..if the government is actually doing something like Health care..which does fall under promotion of commerce and general welfare..then it's infringing on "states rights". That's a little on the crazy side.

actually there are major Strategic Advantages to a coordinated Military. Still different units play by different rules. I really support the Idea of a strong National Guard, that is controlled by the consent of the Governors, on loan to the President. I bet the Indian Tribes that are no more would have better appreciated National Guard Troops minding their own business What do you think? Then again I really appreciate how our Military responds to Natural Disasters around the world. There is no PR that can compare to that. Being in the right place at the right time, making the difference. When the Fed goes against one or a few States, it may take the day. When the Fed pisses off 66% to 75% of the States, it will lose.

 

[daveman]

How do you think you did? Is that $1.3 trillion worth? Do we have our balanced budget?

Oh, no. That was just a start.

And I know the government is not supposed to be a jobs program, but it doesn't change the fact that unemployment would rise and we'd all suffer as a consequence...

So you're not willing to decrease the size of the government.

 

[daveman]

Thanks Dave....you seem more capable of specifics than the Tea Party

Have you really listened to the Tea Party, or are you relying on what you've been told?

NEA is literally pennies. Not worth the bandwidth in a serious discussion of cutting spending
Deptartment of Education could be reduced to a shell (it has 5000 employees now) and its funtions allocated to the states. This saves no money. It only shifts it to the states
HUD does more than housing projects and all its functions would have to be shifted to the state level. Taking money out of my right pocket instead of my left
Private enterprise can't save Amtrak, all they want is the Boston-NY-Washington run. Congress forced unprofitable runs through Red States which lose money.
Farm subsidies- cut them

You still don't have $1.3 Trillion in cuts yet, you are still about $1 trillion short. You have killed the programs liberals like, now you will hae to go after some conservative programs.

That was just a start, as I said. There are more liberal programs I'd cut.

But to please the liberals, I would change defense acquisition. Far too much waste. I would have Congress listen more to DoD when deciding defense appropriations than to Congressmen with defense contractors in their home states. If the USAF says they don't need any more C-17s, don't make them to buy any more. That forces the AF to hire more people to fly and maintain them, taking money from other programs.

I may not cut as much from Defense as the Left would like, however, because most bases have serious infrastructure issues. When I was at Kunsan AB in ROK 13 years ago, they were still finding wooden water mains in service that the Japanese had installed during their occupation.

I could see reducing our overseas bases in Europe. Russia's not likely to attack our allies.

 

[Intense]

Thanks Dave....you seem more capable of specifics than the Tea Party

Have you really listened to the Tea Party, or are you relying on what you've been told?

NEA is literally pennies. Not worth the bandwidth in a serious discussion of cutting spending
Deptartment of Education could be reduced to a shell (it has 5000 employees now) and its funtions allocated to the states. This saves no money. It only shifts it to the states
HUD does more than housing projects and all its functions would have to be shifted to the state level. Taking money out of my right pocket instead of my left
Private enterprise can't save Amtrak, all they want is the Boston-NY-Washington run. Congress forced unprofitable runs through Red States which lose money.
Farm subsidies- cut them

You still don't have $1.3 Trillion in cuts yet, you are still about $1 trillion short. You have killed the programs liberals like, now you will hae to go after some conservative programs.

That was just a start, as I said. There are more liberal programs I'd cut.

But to please the liberals, I would change defense acquisition. Far too much waste. I would have Congress listen more to DoD when deciding defense appropriations than to Congressmen with defense contractors in their home states. If the USAF says they don't need any more C-17s, don't make them to buy any more. That forces the AF to hire more people to fly and maintain them, taking money from other programs.

I may not cut as much from Defense as the Left would like, however, because most bases have serious infrastructure issues. When I was at Kunsan AB in ROK 13 years ago, they were still finding wooden water mains in service that the Japanese had installed during their occupation.

I could see reducing our overseas bases in Europe. Russia's not likely to attack our allies.

I have a thought on that. I say let the Military use DOD Personnel, on the gun ranges, when they are really really bad, the Military gets to use live ammo. Keep the Bureaucrat's in shape, on their toes, and really, really, agreeable. Cut down on Weenies real quick.

 

[rightwinger]

Thanks Dave....you seem more capable of specifics than the Tea Party

Have you really listened to the Tea Party, or are you relying on what you've been told?

NEA is literally pennies. Not worth the bandwidth in a serious discussion of cutting spending
Deptartment of Education could be reduced to a shell (it has 5000 employees now) and its funtions allocated to the states. This saves no money. It only shifts it to the states
HUD does more than housing projects and all its functions would have to be shifted to the state level. Taking money out of my right pocket instead of my left
Private enterprise can't save Amtrak, all they want is the Boston-NY-Washington run. Congress forced unprofitable runs through Red States which lose money.
Farm subsidies- cut them

You still don't have $1.3 Trillion in cuts yet, you are still about $1 trillion short. You have killed the programs liberals like, now you will hae to go after some conservative programs.

That was just a start, as I said. There are more liberal programs I'd cut.

But to please the liberals, I would change defense acquisition. Far too much waste. I would have Congress listen more to DoD when deciding defense appropriations than to Congressmen with defense contractors in their home states. If the USAF says they don't need any more C-17s, don't make them to buy any more. That forces the AF to hire more people to fly and maintain them, taking money from other programs.

I may not cut as much from Defense as the Left would like, however, because most bases have serious infrastructure issues. When I was at Kunsan AB in ROK 13 years ago, they were still finding wooden water mains in service that the Japanese had installed during their occupation.

I could see reducing our overseas bases in Europe. Russia's not likely to attack our allies.

Additional cuts in the military can come from expecting the EU and Japan to assume more responsibility for their own defense. Restructure our nuclear strategic mission. Do we really need 1500 warheads and the subs, air bases and aircraft to deliver them? Cut the number of Aircraft carrier task forces. Get the hell out of Afghanistan and Iraq

That is $1 trillion right there

 

[daveman]

Thanks Dave....you seem more capable of specifics than the Tea Party

Have you really listened to the Tea Party, or are you relying on what you've been told?

NEA is literally pennies. Not worth the bandwidth in a serious discussion of cutting spending
Deptartment of Education could be reduced to a shell (it has 5000 employees now) and its funtions allocated to the states. This saves no money. It only shifts it to the states
HUD does more than housing projects and all its functions would have to be shifted to the state level. Taking money out of my right pocket instead of my left
Private enterprise can't save Amtrak, all they want is the Boston-NY-Washington run. Congress forced unprofitable runs through Red States which lose money.
Farm subsidies- cut them

You still don't have $1.3 Trillion in cuts yet, you are still about $1 trillion short. You have killed the programs liberals like, now you will hae to go after some conservative programs.

That was just a start, as I said. There are more liberal programs I'd cut.

But to please the liberals, I would change defense acquisition. Far too much waste. I would have Congress listen more to DoD when deciding defense appropriations than to Congressmen with defense contractors in their home states. If the USAF says they don't need any more C-17s, don't make them to buy any more. That forces the AF to hire more people to fly and maintain them, taking money from other programs.

I may not cut as much from Defense as the Left would like, however, because most bases have serious infrastructure issues. When I was at Kunsan AB in ROK 13 years ago, they were still finding wooden water mains in service that the Japanese had installed during their occupation.

I could see reducing our overseas bases in Europe. Russia's not likely to attack our allies.

Additional cuts in the military can come from expecting the EU and Japan to assume more responsibility for their own defense. Restructure our nuclear strategic mission. Do we really need 1500 warheads and the subs, air bases and aircraft to deliver them? Cut the number of Aircraft carrier task forces. Get the hell out of Afghanistan and Iraq

That is $1 trillion right there

Don't know as I'd cut the carriers. Nothing says "You all settle down and play nice" like a carrier battle group on the horizon.

I'm not willing to leave Iraq and Afghanistan until they're spun up and can take care of their own security, but the rest is certainly on the table.

 

[Zander]

Well liberals, here is a way to cut $343 BILLION from the next budget.



From the Heritage Foundation -
Table 1: Spending Cuts for FY 2012

(in millions of dollars)

Agriculture

$15,000
Replace farm subsidies with Farmer Savings Accounts and improved crop insurance.

$2,033
Eliminate the Foreign Agriculture Service.

$1,500
Merge all four agriculture outreach and research agencies and cut their budget in half.

$1,000
Fund the Food Safety and Inspection Service with user fees.

Commerce

$500
Eliminate business subsidies from the National Institute of Standards and Technology.

Community Development

$6,000
Eliminate the Community Development Block Grant program.

$598
Eliminate the Rural Utilities Service.

$523
Eliminate the Economic Development Administration.

$480
Eliminate NeighborWorks America (formerly the Neighborhood Reinvestment Corporation).

$200
Consolidate the Rural Housing and Development Programs and convert them into block grants.

$73
Eliminate the Appalachian Regional Commission.

$48
Eliminate the Denali Commission.

$31
Eliminate the Minority Development Business Agency.

$8
Eliminate the Delta Regional Authority.

Education

$8,000
Return Pell Grants to their 2009 funding level of $24 billion, which is still double the 2007 level.

$2,000
Trim Head Start by $2 billion and convert it into vouchers.

$2,000
Scale back the Education Department bureaucracy.

$1,500
Eliminate dozens of small and duplicative education grants.

$298
Eliminate state grants for Safe and Drug-Free Schools and Communities.

Energy and the Environment

$6,500
Reduce energy subsidies for commercialization and some research activities.

$600
Block grant and devolve Environmental Protection Agency grant programs.

$200
Restructure the Power Marketing Administrations to charge market-based rates.

$63
Eliminate the Science to Achieve Results Program.

Government Reform

$44,000
Halve federal program payment errors by 2012, especially by reducing Medicare errors and earned income tax credit errors.
Tighten oversight by spending $5 billion on new resources, such as updated computer systems, and then recover $49 billion in payment errors.

$20,000
Rescind unobligated balances after 36 months.

$12,500
Halve the $25 billion spent to maintain vacant federal properties.

$10,000
Cut the federal employee travel budget to $4 billion (half of FY 2000 spending).

$3,000
Freeze federal pay until it can be reformed.

$1,000
Suspend acquisition of federal office space.

$600
Trim the federal vehicle fleet by 20 percent (a reduction of 100,000 vehicles).

$300
Cut the House and Senate budgets back to the 2008 level of $2.2 billion.

$215
Eliminate the Presidential Election Campaign Fund.

$100
Tighten controls on federal employee credit cards and cut down on delinquencies.

$70
Require federal employees to fly coach on domestic flights.

Health Care

$6,200
Reform Medigap.

$5,000
Repeal Obamacare (larger savings in later years).

$3,700
Require Medicare home health co-payments.

$673
Eliminate the Maternal and Child Health Block Grant.

$414
Eliminate Health Professions grants.

$327
Eliminate Title X Family Planning.

$150
Eliminate the National Health Service Corps.

$98
Repeal Rural Health Outreach and Flexibility grants.

Homeland Security

$2,700
Eliminate most homeland security grants to states and allow states to finance their own programs.

Income Security

$500
Better enforce eligibility requirements for food stamps.

Interior



$1,500
Open the coastal plain of the Arctic National Wildlife Refuge to leasing.
(The savings are leasing revenues, which are classified as negative spending in the federal budget.)

$200
Suspend federal land purchases.

International

$2,636
Eliminate the Development Assistance Program.

$625
Eliminate the State Department’s education and cultural exchange programs.

$321
Eliminate the International Trade Administration’s trade promotion activities or charge the beneficiaries.

$183
Eliminate the Democracy Fund.

$68
Eliminate the International Trade Commission and transfer oversight of intellectual property rights to the Treasury Department.

$56
Eliminate the Trade and Development Agency.

$29
Eliminate the Overseas Private Investment Corporation.

$19
Eliminate the East–West Center.

$17
Eliminate the United States Institute of Peace.

$2
Eliminate the Japan–United States Friendship Commission.

Justice

$7,334
Eliminate all Justice Department grants except those from the Bureau of Justice Statistics and the National Institute of Justice,
thereby empowering states to finance their own justice programs.

$398
Eliminate the Legal Services Corporation.

$32
Eliminate the Justice Department’s Community Relations Service.

$30
Eliminate the duplicative Office of National Drug Control Policy.

$26
Reduce funding for the Justice Department’s Civil Rights Division by 20 percent
because of its policy against race-neutral enforcement of the law.

$4
Eliminate the State Justice Institute.

Labor



$4,300
Eliminate failed federal job training programs.

$2,000
Eliminate the ineffective Job Corps.

$576
Eliminate the Senior Community Service Employment Program.

National Science Foundation

$1,700
Reduce National Science Foundation funding to 2008 levels.

$86
Eliminate National Science Foundation spending on elementary and secondary education.

Transportation

$45,000
Devolve the federal highway program and most transit spending to the states.

$1,900
Privatize Amtrak.

$1,009
Eliminate grants to large and medium-sized hub airports.

$554
Eliminate the Maritime Administration.

$125
Eliminate the Essential Air Service Program.

Treasury

$26,646
Eliminate the additional child refundable credit.

$103
Eliminate the Community Development Financial Institutions Fund.

Veterans

$2,500
Cap increases in Department of Veterans Affairs health care spending.

$1,930
Reduce Veterans’ Disability Compensation to account for Social Security Disability Insurance payments.

Cross-Agency and Other

$60,000
Repeal unspent stimulus spending.

$8,000
Switch to using the “Superlative CPI” in funding calculations.

$6,000
Repeal the Davis–Bacon Act.

$2,250
Eliminate Federal Communications Commission funding for school Internet service.

$2,000
Ban project labor agreements on all federally funded construction projects.

$1,000
Eliminate the Small Business Administration, which unnecessarily intervenes in free markets.

$736
Eliminate the National Community Service programs, such as AmeriCorps.

$253
Eliminate the Institute of Museum Services and Library Services.

$140
Eliminate the National Endowment for the Humanities.

$133
Eliminate the National Endowment for the Arts.

$61
Eliminate Army Corps of Engineers funding for beach replenishment projects.

$10
Eliminate the Commission of Fine Arts.

$8
Eliminate the National Capital Planning Commission.

$5
Eliminate the Advisory Council on Historic Preservation.

Total



$343,207 million

How to Cut the Federal Budget | The Heritage Foundation

 

[daveman]

I have a thought on that. I say let the Military use DOD Personnel, on the gun ranges, when they are really really bad, the Military gets to use live ammo. Keep the Bureaucrat's in shape, on their toes, and really, really, agreeable. Cut down on Weenies real quick.

 

[Samson]

I too will be interested in seeing what the revived GOP will do with its control over the House.

I suspect that our TEA PARTY folks are going to be sorely disappointed when they finally realize that its going to be business as usual in Washington.

They are going to be, much as the right wing evangelists were, shocked when they see that the RNC leopard isn't going to change its spots.

But time will tell.

I see gridlock.

And before some of you cheer that gridlock, know that gridlock means that the tax cuts will automatically be repealed, and that the Obama HC plan will go into effect, too.

There's soemthing there for everybody to hate.

Indeed the RNC (Dem-Lite) will not change their spots.

On to 2012.

By then the Tea Party will have learned from 2010, and will only be more powerful, absorbing much of the R's and many Blue Dog Dems, leaving a very clear choice between purely conservative, and liberal candidates.

 

[Sallow]

actually there are major Strategic Advantages to a coordinated Military. Still different units play by different rules. I really support the Idea of a strong National Guard, that is controlled by the consent of the Governors, on loan to the President. I bet the Indian Tribes that are no more would have better appreciated National Guard Troops minding their own business What do you think? Then again I really appreciate how our Military responds to Natural Disasters around the world. There is no PR that can compare to that. Being in the right place at the right time, making the difference. When the Fed goes against one or a few States, it may take the day. When the Fed pisses off 66% to 75% of the States, it will lose.

Some of this I can get behind. Along with the idea that we should not be knocking over governments we don't like..because we don't like them. There will be of course, times we need to spank some other countries because they are involved in stupid things like genocide. But our actions should be limited, quick and lethal. The Balkans (which I agreed with) and Panama (which I didn't) should be the Templates along with the first American/Iraq war.

But we also should be able to do this far more cheaply then we do it today.

 

[Samson]

Well liberals, here is a way to cut $343 BILLION from the next budget.



From the Heritage Foundation -
Table 1: Spending Cuts for FY 2012

(in millions of dollars)

$26,646
Eliminate the additional child refundable credit.

How to Cut the Federal Budget | The Heritage Foundation

WTF???

$26,646
"Eliminate the additional child refundable credit?"

Am I supposed to be getting some sort of credit for having kids?

 

[Cuyo]

How do you think you did? Is that $1.3 trillion worth? Do we have our balanced budget?

Oh, no. That was just a start.

And I know the government is not supposed to be a jobs program, but it doesn't change the fact that unemployment would rise and we'd all suffer as a consequence...

So you're not willing to decrease the size of the government.

Doing so now would have severe repercussions; severe to the point that it's not even worth discussing because the BOGSATs won't let it happen. When the economy is burgeoning, perhaps. But predictably, no it's not a big priority of mine. I don't find the size of government to be overwhelmingly large or over burdensome. I'm also of the opinion that some things are better handled in the public interest; And yes that means the government.