On this 4th of July........Don’t forget to thank a Liberal

[JakeStarkey]

The courts advice were followed.

 

[rightwinger]

In other words, their beliefs were totally different from yours.

The phrase "liberals of their time" is utterly meaningless since you allow the term "liberal" to mean virtually anything. All you're proving is what huge weasel you are.

The Dufus claims the Founding Fathers wanted a huge government controlling every aspect of our lives.

The founding fathers were incapable of forming a large government. The US was deeply in debt and had a weak economy
If they didn’t want future generations forming huge governments......they would have banned it

"The Tenth Amendment is the foundation of the Constitution."
- Thomas Jefferson

Amendment X
The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the states, are reserved to the states respectively, or to the people.


If you want I can post about 35 letters from the FF on limited government.
Weatherman, educating the left since 1978

Nothing in the tenth amendment prohibits a big government

Courts have upheld that for generations

Courts upheld women not voting for generations too.
So what was your point again?

Liberals did not get around to that one until 1920

 

[Weatherman2020]

The Dufus claims the Founding Fathers wanted a huge government controlling every aspect of our lives.

The founding fathers were incapable of forming a large government. The US was deeply in debt and had a weak economy
If they didn’t want future generations forming huge governments......they would have banned it

"The Tenth Amendment is the foundation of the Constitution."
- Thomas Jefferson

Amendment X
The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the states, are reserved to the states respectively, or to the people.


If you want I can post about 35 letters from the FF on limited government.
Weatherman, educating the left since 1978

Nothing in the tenth amendment prohibits a big government

Courts have upheld that for generations

Courts upheld women not voting for generations too.
So what was your point again?

Liberals did not get around to that one until 1920

Senate vote on 19th Amendment:
Republicans 9% opposed.
Democrats 41% opposed.

United States Constitution and Citizenship Day: 19th Amendment

Keep digging, this is fun.

 

[JakeStarkey]

That was before the GOP was recaptured by the hard right wing of party.

 

[Ame®icano]

The FFs would be horrified by the fascistic tendencies of the GOP's right wing today.

American was unable to show that anyone said government could do whatever it wanted to do, which was absolute nonsense.

American forgot to tell you that it was the Dem party in Congress that said 'no' to court packing SCOTUS.

American admits taxation is legal.

The 'general welfare cause' is an issue for SCOTUS and Congress.

The slave owners of the 1850s and the KKK of the 1950s were conservatives.

They were Democrats. Keep ignoring that northern Democrats were also pro slavery. Were they conservatives?

Interesting how Democrats were always doing things that they later accuse Republicans of doing, regardless that every single thing Democrats stared under their name, Republicans ended.

 

[Ame®icano]

Yes, the FFs world was far different than ours today.

Segregation and Jim Crow were conservative institutions and belief.

Pipe dream. segregationist Wilson was Progressive Democrat.

Jim Crow laws were just Democrats being buthurt for losing their slaves.

 

[Ava]

Our founding fathers were the most liberal thinkers of their era

Imagine believing that all men were created equal, that royalty were no better than anyone else, that common people should vote

Conservatives supported the King ....that is where the power was

Our liberal founding fathers risked all to create a new nation

Without having time or desire to go through this thread I have to answer with a name I hope others have listed: Barack Hussein Obama. My nomination for Thank A Liberal. He brought us a great president. REAL hope and LOTS of change and he is only beginning. Love you, President Trump.

 

[Ame®icano]

Are you insane tonight, OK?

Taxing and Spending Clause - Wikipedia
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Taxing_and_Spending_Clause
The Taxing and Spending Clause (which contains provisions known as the General Welfare Clause) and the Uniformity Clause, Article I, Section 8, Clause 1 of the United States Constitution, grants the federal government of the United States its power of taxation.

Its funny how lefties, when they talk about "general welfare clause" conveniently forget the "common defense" part of the clause. Even funnier that they think that whatever Constitution means to them is exactly what it means to everyone. They always point how Constitution is written so long ago. So what? We go by the definitions of the words contained in the text based on the time when is written. You can't just change the definition to mean whatever you want it to means so you get some imaginary constitutional authority.

When they talk about "general welfare" they're implying that it means "welfare". "Welfare" was a system of payments towards low income people stemming from a great depression, and "general welfare" would be not just low income people but all Americans, therefore we have the power in the privilege to do whatever it is we want to do on behalf of all people, not just some.

This idea that government can always do whatever if feels is best for the greater good is something held by left wing dictators, socialist and communists. Now please explain how it makes sense that the federal government would outline 18 very specific powers they have, but then also say “oh...by the way, the general welfare clause overrides everything and gives us unlimited powers to do whatever we (leftists) want”...?

You clearly do not understand the Article or its component parts.

No one has ever said EXCEPT YOU that the government can always do whatever it feels.

Show us anyone of signficance in our American mainstream who has said that and I will show you a fool.

Huh?

Both of you, rightwinger and you are citing "general welfare clause" as government power that lefties use to push for their programs.

Sorry, neither one of you are of any significance, so lets give you few examples. I'm sure you can check the quotes below by googling.

Under FDR's threats to pack the courts in 1937, Supreme Court would find the Social Security Act constitutional, as a function of general welfare.

Or more recent, when Steny Hoyer was asked where Congress gets the authority to force Americans to buy health insurance, Congressmen said: "Well, in promoting the general welfare the Constitution obviously gives broad authority to Congress to effect that end. The end that we’re trying to effect is to make health care affordable, so I think clearly this is within our constitutional responsibility.”

Or when the same question was addressed to Pelosi, her answer was "Are you serious?"

Just like you now, can't reply to my question, but demand from me to answer yours. And I did, now is your turn, the same request: cite the text that of the Constitution that directs the Federal government to feed citizen A at the expense of citizen B. Go!

Social Security has withstood court challenges for 80 years. So have Medicare, Welfare Programs and even Obamacare

Your limited views of government responsibilities are not supported by the courts

Government responsibilities are enumerated in Article I. Section 8.

The words “general welfare” in the introduction to the enumerated powers of Article I Section 8 were never intended to be an object for extension of the power to tax and spend. The supreme court surrendered to the new deal on the most fundamental of constitutional issues. The Court executed the most abrupt change of face in its entire history.

Funny enough, they outsmarted themselves. because Article I, Section 9, Clause 5 says: “No Tax or Duty shall be laid on Articles exported from any State…” So let me get this straight, they meant for the “general welfare” clause to be unfettered from the 17 enumerated powers under Article I section 8, but this clause then must be subordinate to the Article I, Section 9 limitation.

You lefties are funny.

 

[Ame®icano]

LOL! Uh, no, liberalism in the 18th century bore no resemblance to modern American liberalism. You are smoking something if you think James Madison, Alexander Hamilton, Patrick Henry, Thomas Jefferson, and George Washington would be liberals in our day. They would view you and your fellow liberals as sick, immoral, and ignorant Jacobin radicals.

Our founders would be proud of today’s liberals ....they have the same values

They would be appalled at American Conservatism

The first shots of the Revolutionary War was when the government came to confiscate guns of citizens, Dufus. So we shot them.

Yeah, this OP is just hilarious. You hate to make fun of anyone, but . . . my goodness . . . to even think about comparing the founding fathers to modern American liberals shows a profound ignorance of American history.

The Left believe their physically assaulting children is just as brave as the Minutemen standing facing the most powerful and well trained Army in the world.

The right believes in sticking children in cages

Just another leftist policy that Republicans ended.

 

[Ame®icano]

To think of comparing and judging the Founders with today's conservatives and liberals is just silly.

However, today's far right and alt right Americans are, in fact, politically anti-freedom.

Proof: just read USMB daily.

They were the liberals of their time
Just like today’s liberals are the liberals of our time

In other words, their beliefs were totally different from yours.

The phrase "liberals of their time" is utterly meaningless since you allow the term "liberal" to mean virtually anything. All you're proving is what huge weasel you are.

Liberalism is an evolving mindset

To say that because you don’t have the exact same beliefs as someone in 1775 you can’t be liberal is ridiculous

How much have the beliefs of the Republican Party changed since 1860? Does anyone say that because you do not believe exactly what Lincoln believed you can’t be a Republican?

You lefties evolve faster that anyone... right now, your right in between socialists and communists.

 

[rightwinger]

The founding fathers were incapable of forming a large government. The US was deeply in debt and had a weak economy
If they didn’t want future generations forming huge governments......they would have banned it

"The Tenth Amendment is the foundation of the Constitution."
- Thomas Jefferson

Amendment X
The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the states, are reserved to the states respectively, or to the people.


If you want I can post about 35 letters from the FF on limited government.
Weatherman, educating the left since 1978

Nothing in the tenth amendment prohibits a big government

Courts have upheld that for generations

Courts upheld women not voting for generations too.
So what was your point again?

Liberals did not get around to that one until 1920

Senate vote on 19th Amendment:
Republicans 9% opposed.
Democrats 41% opposed.

United States Constitution and Citizenship Day: 19th Amendment

Keep digging, this is fun.

What does that have to do with liberals and conservatives!

 

[rightwinger]

To think of comparing and judging the Founders with today's conservatives and liberals is just silly.

However, today's far right and alt right Americans are, in fact, politically anti-freedom.

Proof: just read USMB daily.

They were the liberals of their time
Just like today’s liberals are the liberals of our time

In other words, their beliefs were totally different from yours.

The phrase "liberals of their time" is utterly meaningless since you allow the term "liberal" to mean virtually anything. All you're proving is what huge weasel you are.

Liberalism is an evolving mindset

To say that because you don’t have the exact same beliefs as someone in 1775 you can’t be liberal is ridiculous

How much have the beliefs of the Republican Party changed since 1860? Does anyone say that because you do not believe exactly what Lincoln believed you can’t be a Republican?

You lefties evolve faster that anyone... right now, your right in between socialists and communists.

You need to listen to more Rush Limbaugh

 

[rightwinger]

Are you insane tonight, OK?

Taxing and Spending Clause - Wikipedia
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Taxing_and_Spending_Clause
The Taxing and Spending Clause (which contains provisions known as the General Welfare Clause) and the Uniformity Clause, Article I, Section 8, Clause 1 of the United States Constitution, grants the federal government of the United States its power of taxation.

Its funny how lefties, when they talk about "general welfare clause" conveniently forget the "common defense" part of the clause. Even funnier that they think that whatever Constitution means to them is exactly what it means to everyone. They always point how Constitution is written so long ago. So what? We go by the definitions of the words contained in the text based on the time when is written. You can't just change the definition to mean whatever you want it to means so you get some imaginary constitutional authority.

When they talk about "general welfare" they're implying that it means "welfare". "Welfare" was a system of payments towards low income people stemming from a great depression, and "general welfare" would be not just low income people but all Americans, therefore we have the power in the privilege to do whatever it is we want to do on behalf of all people, not just some.

This idea that government can always do whatever if feels is best for the greater good is something held by left wing dictators, socialist and communists. Now please explain how it makes sense that the federal government would outline 18 very specific powers they have, but then also say “oh...by the way, the general welfare clause overrides everything and gives us unlimited powers to do whatever we (leftists) want”...?

You clearly do not understand the Article or its component parts.

No one has ever said EXCEPT YOU that the government can always do whatever it feels.

Show us anyone of signficance in our American mainstream who has said that and I will show you a fool.

Huh?

Both of you, rightwinger and you are citing "general welfare clause" as government power that lefties use to push for their programs.

Sorry, neither one of you are of any significance, so lets give you few examples. I'm sure you can check the quotes below by googling.

Under FDR's threats to pack the courts in 1937, Supreme Court would find the Social Security Act constitutional, as a function of general welfare.

Or more recent, when Steny Hoyer was asked where Congress gets the authority to force Americans to buy health insurance, Congressmen said: "Well, in promoting the general welfare the Constitution obviously gives broad authority to Congress to effect that end. The end that we’re trying to effect is to make health care affordable, so I think clearly this is within our constitutional responsibility.”

Or when the same question was addressed to Pelosi, her answer was "Are you serious?"

Just like you now, can't reply to my question, but demand from me to answer yours. And I did, now is your turn, the same request: cite the text that of the Constitution that directs the Federal government to feed citizen A at the expense of citizen B. Go!

Social Security has withstood court challenges for 80 years. So have Medicare, Welfare Programs and even Obamacare

Your limited views of government responsibilities are not supported by the courts

Government responsibilities are enumerated in Article I. Section 8.

The words “general welfare” in the introduction to the enumerated powers of Article I Section 8 were never intended to be an object for extension of the power to tax and spend. The supreme court surrendered to the new deal on the most fundamental of constitutional issues. The Court executed the most abrupt change of face in its entire history.

Funny enough, they outsmarted themselves. because Article I, Section 9, Clause 5 says: “No Tax or Duty shall be laid on Articles exported from any State…” So let me get this straight, they meant for the “general welfare” clause to be unfettered from the 17 enumerated powers under Article I section 8, but this clause then must be subordinate to the Article I, Section 9 limitation.

You lefties are funny.

Nice try.......name some court decisions that support your view

 

[Ame®icano]

To think of comparing and judging the Founders with today's conservatives and liberals is just silly.

However, today's far right and alt right Americans are, in fact, politically anti-freedom.

Proof: just read USMB daily.

They were the liberals of their time
Just like today’s liberals are the liberals of our time

In other words, their beliefs were totally different from yours.

The phrase "liberals of their time" is utterly meaningless since you allow the term "liberal" to mean virtually anything. All you're proving is what huge weasel you are.

Liberalism is an evolving mindset

To say that because you don’t have the exact same beliefs as someone in 1775 you can’t be liberal is ridiculous

How much have the beliefs of the Republican Party changed since 1860? Does anyone say that because you do not believe exactly what Lincoln believed you can’t be a Republican?

You lefties evolve faster that anyone... right now, your right in between socialists and communists.

You need to listen to more Rush Limbaugh

I don't have to. You just elected self declared socialist in New York and even calling her "future of Democrat party".

 

[percysunshine]

Conservatives are the only liberals remaining. Everyone else is a moonbat.

 

[Ame®icano]

Its funny how lefties, when they talk about "general welfare clause" conveniently forget the "common defense" part of the clause. Even funnier that they think that whatever Constitution means to them is exactly what it means to everyone. They always point how Constitution is written so long ago. So what? We go by the definitions of the words contained in the text based on the time when is written. You can't just change the definition to mean whatever you want it to means so you get some imaginary constitutional authority.

When they talk about "general welfare" they're implying that it means "welfare". "Welfare" was a system of payments towards low income people stemming from a great depression, and "general welfare" would be not just low income people but all Americans, therefore we have the power in the privilege to do whatever it is we want to do on behalf of all people, not just some.

This idea that government can always do whatever if feels is best for the greater good is something held by left wing dictators, socialist and communists. Now please explain how it makes sense that the federal government would outline 18 very specific powers they have, but then also say “oh...by the way, the general welfare clause overrides everything and gives us unlimited powers to do whatever we (leftists) want”...?

You clearly do not understand the Article or its component parts.

No one has ever said EXCEPT YOU that the government can always do whatever it feels.

Show us anyone of signficance in our American mainstream who has said that and I will show you a fool.

Huh?

Both of you, rightwinger and you are citing "general welfare clause" as government power that lefties use to push for their programs.

Sorry, neither one of you are of any significance, so lets give you few examples. I'm sure you can check the quotes below by googling.

Under FDR's threats to pack the courts in 1937, Supreme Court would find the Social Security Act constitutional, as a function of general welfare.

Or more recent, when Steny Hoyer was asked where Congress gets the authority to force Americans to buy health insurance, Congressmen said: "Well, in promoting the general welfare the Constitution obviously gives broad authority to Congress to effect that end. The end that we’re trying to effect is to make health care affordable, so I think clearly this is within our constitutional responsibility.”

Or when the same question was addressed to Pelosi, her answer was "Are you serious?"

Just like you now, can't reply to my question, but demand from me to answer yours. And I did, now is your turn, the same request: cite the text that of the Constitution that directs the Federal government to feed citizen A at the expense of citizen B. Go!

Social Security has withstood court challenges for 80 years. So have Medicare, Welfare Programs and even Obamacare

Your limited views of government responsibilities are not supported by the courts

Government responsibilities are enumerated in Article I. Section 8.

The words “general welfare” in the introduction to the enumerated powers of Article I Section 8 were never intended to be an object for extension of the power to tax and spend. The supreme court surrendered to the new deal on the most fundamental of constitutional issues. The Court executed the most abrupt change of face in its entire history.

Funny enough, they outsmarted themselves. because Article I, Section 9, Clause 5 says: “No Tax or Duty shall be laid on Articles exported from any State…” So let me get this straight, they meant for the “general welfare” clause to be unfettered from the 17 enumerated powers under Article I section 8, but this clause then must be subordinate to the Article I, Section 9 limitation.

You lefties are funny.

Nice try.......name some court decisions that support your view

Try actually answering what I wrote, cause your delusional request has nothing to do with my post.

 

[Sun Devil 92]

The Dufus claims the Founding Fathers wanted a huge government controlling every aspect of our lives.

The founding fathers were incapable of forming a large government. The US was deeply in debt and had a weak economy
If they didn’t want future generations forming huge governments......they would have banned it

"The Tenth Amendment is the foundation of the Constitution."
- Thomas Jefferson

Amendment X
The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the states, are reserved to the states respectively, or to the people.


If you want I can post about 35 letters from the FF on limited government.
Weatherman, educating the left since 1978

Nothing in the tenth amendment prohibits a big government

Courts have upheld that for generations

Courts upheld women not voting for generations too.
So what was your point again?

Liberals did not get around to that one until 1920

Conservatives got there first.

Check out the history of Wyoming.

You know....Wyoming....more left wing that California.....

 

[Sun Devil 92]

Its funny how lefties, when they talk about "general welfare clause" conveniently forget the "common defense" part of the clause. Even funnier that they think that whatever Constitution means to them is exactly what it means to everyone. They always point how Constitution is written so long ago. So what? We go by the definitions of the words contained in the text based on the time when is written. You can't just change the definition to mean whatever you want it to means so you get some imaginary constitutional authority.

When they talk about "general welfare" they're implying that it means "welfare". "Welfare" was a system of payments towards low income people stemming from a great depression, and "general welfare" would be not just low income people but all Americans, therefore we have the power in the privilege to do whatever it is we want to do on behalf of all people, not just some.

This idea that government can always do whatever if feels is best for the greater good is something held by left wing dictators, socialist and communists. Now please explain how it makes sense that the federal government would outline 18 very specific powers they have, but then also say “oh...by the way, the general welfare clause overrides everything and gives us unlimited powers to do whatever we (leftists) want”...?

You clearly do not understand the Article or its component parts.

No one has ever said EXCEPT YOU that the government can always do whatever it feels.

Show us anyone of signficance in our American mainstream who has said that and I will show you a fool.

Huh?

Both of you, rightwinger and you are citing "general welfare clause" as government power that lefties use to push for their programs.

Sorry, neither one of you are of any significance, so lets give you few examples. I'm sure you can check the quotes below by googling.

Under FDR's threats to pack the courts in 1937, Supreme Court would find the Social Security Act constitutional, as a function of general welfare.

Or more recent, when Steny Hoyer was asked where Congress gets the authority to force Americans to buy health insurance, Congressmen said: "Well, in promoting the general welfare the Constitution obviously gives broad authority to Congress to effect that end. The end that we’re trying to effect is to make health care affordable, so I think clearly this is within our constitutional responsibility.”

Or when the same question was addressed to Pelosi, her answer was "Are you serious?"

Just like you now, can't reply to my question, but demand from me to answer yours. And I did, now is your turn, the same request: cite the text that of the Constitution that directs the Federal government to feed citizen A at the expense of citizen B. Go!

Social Security has withstood court challenges for 80 years. So have Medicare, Welfare Programs and even Obamacare

Your limited views of government responsibilities are not supported by the courts

Government responsibilities are enumerated in Article I. Section 8.

The words “general welfare” in the introduction to the enumerated powers of Article I Section 8 were never intended to be an object for extension of the power to tax and spend. The supreme court surrendered to the new deal on the most fundamental of constitutional issues. The Court executed the most abrupt change of face in its entire history.

Funny enough, they outsmarted themselves. because Article I, Section 9, Clause 5 says: “No Tax or Duty shall be laid on Articles exported from any State…” So let me get this straight, they meant for the “general welfare” clause to be unfettered from the 17 enumerated powers under Article I section 8, but this clause then must be subordinate to the Article I, Section 9 limitation.

You lefties are funny.

Nice try.......name some court decisions that support your view

The slaughterhouse cases.....

All of FDR's New Deal crap until he managed to get to one of the justices.......

 

[Sun Devil 92]

"The Tenth Amendment is the foundation of the Constitution."
- Thomas Jefferson

Amendment X
The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the states, are reserved to the states respectively, or to the people.


If you want I can post about 35 letters from the FF on limited government.
Weatherman, educating the left since 1978

Nothing in the tenth amendment prohibits a big government

Courts have upheld that for generations

Courts upheld women not voting for generations too.
So what was your point again?

Liberals did not get around to that one until 1920

Senate vote on 19th Amendment:
Republicans 9% opposed.
Democrats 41% opposed.

United States Constitution and Citizenship Day: 19th Amendment

Keep digging, this is fun.

What does that have to do with liberals and conservatives!

Left wingers didn't get around to anything in that regard.

You are NOT a liberal.

You are a sorry excuse for anything.....and even less.

 

[ThunderKiss1965]

The FFs would be horrified by the fascistic tendencies of the GOP's right wing today.

American was unable to show that anyone said government could do whatever it wanted to do, which was absolute nonsense.

American forgot to tell you that it was the Dem party in Congress that said 'no' to court packing SCOTUS.

American admits taxation is legal.

The 'general welfare cause' is an issue for SCOTUS and Congress.

The slave owners of the 1850s and the KKK of the 1950s were conservatives.

The Government has spread way beyond what the founding Fathers intended and it takes a Liberal interpretation of of The Bill of Rights and Constitution that allows things like segregation and Jim Crow which were exclusively a Democratic Party thing.

As it should

We are now the richest and most powerful nation on earth and there are a hundred times the number of people there were in Colonial times

The original intent was for a small Federal Government with anything not covered by the Constitution falling to the states to take care of but what your saying is the more people the country has the bigger the Fed should be. When does that stop ? The Fed is already the biggest employer in the US with 2.7 million employees and that doesn't even include military personnel. That's just wrong in a free society and seems more like what would happen in a Communist country.

The original “intent” was because each state was isolated geographically and the federal government was too poor and weak to maintain central control.
The size of the Federal government has not increased in fifty years while our population doubled

The intent was to never have an all powerful Federal Government. Read some of the subsequent writings by the founding fathers don't just make some shit up in an attempt to prove your point.