One of the following MUST be true about God

[RDD_1210]

I will go with Door Number 1, Monty.

I mean, that's the logical conclusion.

Do you know what logic is? You can't present a false dilemna and come up with a logical conclusion. By definition, when you present a false dilemna you are aren't using logic.

It's only a false dilemma in the mind of someone who is brainwashed in to thinking he is immortal.

 

[RDD_1210]

You should, and also look into astral projection.

I think if you pursue those two (at some point) in a dedicated manner, I could guarantee you will have an entirely new outlook on what "god" is (or could be).

.

Like I said, I'm open to trying anything but it would take something dramatic to convince me to ignore all sensibility and the world we live in and believe in a higher power.

You have demonstrated that you are not open to jack squat. You won't even attempt to look through the questions you posed or consider what others have told you. You asked your questions to try to "prove" a presupposed conclusion you have. You're begging the question.

I'm pretty sure you are the one who bases his entire belief system on the notion that we are immortal yet have exactly ZERO evidence to suggest that's even remotely true.

 

[KevinWestern]

Why are believers not the luckiest little bastards to roam the planet?

If God is, why do those who worship Him seem no luckier than those who don't worship Him?

How do you know they're no luckier?

Sometimes I visit my buddies who live in southern Illinois (which can be a very religious place) and they seem to be very happy and living with a sense of purpose, honor, ect. They're usually more family oriented too, which can be nice. Often times my city friends don't fall into that same category, and can tend to be lost/cynical, ect.

Obviously, just a generalization here but (through my own personal experiences) religious/spiritual folk tend to be happier than non-religious people. Again, is it the structure? The sense of striving for that higher whatever? I don't know...

Just a personal observation...

.

 

[AVG-JOE]

False Dilemna.

Correct.

Why does God allow young children to get cancer and die from cancer?

Is there any possibility that a God who DOES exist might "permit" it for reasons that have nothing to do with anything any of us are evolved enough to even begin to grasp?

Yep.

It might be, for example, that in the GRAND scheme of things, our entire lives amount to nothing more than an inconsequential flash in the pan. Perhaps our lives here in this realm amount to nothing more than a barely perceptible moment of our total existence?

Maybe God uses all these things as part of some test or sorting process; but that in the end, nobody is fundamentally hurt (even a child dying of cancer in this realm) because no part of our existence in this realm amounts to much of anything in the bigger picture.

Since the "choices" offered by the author of the silly OP don't include any of the many other possibilities, the claim that it has to be one of those three options is plainly false and rather ploddingly stupid.

It's not a possibility. It's reality. Our mortal state is a probationary state where we can obtain a physical body and have experiece so that we can learn good from evil and learn to choose the good.

The Lord's plan of happiness comes with counsel on how we can make choices to become happy and uplift and edify the rest of the human race. He has given us the ability to overcome our sinful natures and overcome physical death through His Beloved Son.

According to whom?

 

[RDD_1210]

Again… free will. We must learn from our mistakes.

If God swooped in every time a kid was sick and dying, or everytime a war was about to begin, or evertime you weren’t paying attention and was about to get struck by a truck… what would be the point of our existence? What lessons would we learn? What habbits would we be forced to recognize and change internally?

I don’t believe it’s God’s job to be our police officer; he's instead guiding us on our personal growth.

And again, it's all relative! We're living in a relative paradise compared to the folks in Medieval Europe, where 99% were poor and would die of disease or some other violent means by 40.

Yet we still complain... See where I'm getting at?

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I understand if God is too busy to swoop in and save EVERY child every time.....

How about once?​

How do you know he hasn't swooped in at least once? Kids are saved from horrible fates/situations every day.


.

Law of averages. Certainly more plausible than a fickle and temperamental "god"

 

[KevinWestern]

Law of averages. Certainly more plausible than a fickle and temperamental "god"

I was just responding to a Q asked by Joe. Personally, I don't believe he "swoops" in on daily basis.

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[koshergrl]

Why are believers not the luckiest little bastards to roam the planet?

If God is, why do those who worship Him seem no luckier than those who don't worship Him?

Believers are the happiest people on the planet.

Luck, meh, God doesn't deal in luck. And your perception of "luck" is not what Christians are seeking, or what they desire...or what their reward will be.

 

[petro]

So based upon a couple of posts above, only believers are capable of happiness and a productive fruitful life. I call BS on that generalization. Many in the world find a sense of purpose without what we consider the crutch of organized religion. I choose to live my life questioning all knowledge including scientific query and religious views with an open mind, what I would call true free will.

The problem with both our scientific knowledge and religion is that both raise more questions than answers. If God created everything, what created God? If the universe started with a singularity expanding into the massive universe we witness today, what was before the singularity? What came first, the chicken or the egg? These are questions that we may never have the answer for. Scientific query at least seeks to find these answers without using blind faith. Science at least is capable of altering theories as our knowledge expands of our known universe.

As I stated before, if this god exists, he IS a scientist. Just look at the mathematical nature of everything around us. I see this god as nothing more than an intelligent designer.

 

[Avatar4321]

Christ never rose from the dead, and neither will you. You were just told he did and you just didn't bother to ask for proof.

Excuse what behavior? I lead an honest and productive life because I choose to and it's what I feel is right. Not because I fear I am being judged by a higher power. Stop wasting your life admiring a make-believe entity.

Actually, it's quite the opposite. You are the one who didn't bother asking. I went to the source. You on the other hand find going to the source to find out the truth as something beneath you.

Honest productive life? You have the audacity to make that claim in a thread when you can't even ask an honest question and then claim you are honest? Who eactly do you think you aare kidding?

Stop being so arrogant and learn something for once in your life.

 

[RDD_1210]

Christ never rose from the dead, and neither will you. You were just told he did and you just didn't bother to ask for proof.

Excuse what behavior? I lead an honest and productive life because I choose to and it's what I feel is right. Not because I fear I am being judged by a higher power. Stop wasting your life admiring a make-believe entity.

Actually, it's quite the opposite. You are the one who didn't bother asking. I went to the source. You on the other hand find going to the source to find out the truth as something beneath you.

Honest productive life? You have the audacity to make that claim in a thread when you can't even ask an honest question and then claim you are honest? Who eactly do you think you aare kidding?

Stop being so arrogant and learn something for once in your life.

LOL, he went to the source he says. Now that's just too funny.

 

[PratchettFan]

1) God doesn't exist
2) God is incompetent
3) God doesn't give a shit

One of the three above statements must be true. Take a scenario that seems unexplainable when it comes to "Why would God do ____________?" Or 'Why would God allow _______"?

Children dying of cancer
Women being raped
Mass Genocide
The Holocaust
etc...

None of these events make any sense and would leave any sane person wondering how God plays a part in those events occurring. The answer is one of the above three options.

So which do you think is correct? 1, 2, 3?

I don't see why those are the only three options. How about, because God is letting us learn how to deal with things ourselves rather than fixing it for us? When I taught my kids how to ride a bike, there came a time when I just had to step back and watch.

So what lessons are to be learned by giving kids cancer or by letting a mother and infant die in a fire? What is god teaching us there?

If god is just going to step back and watch, why do people bother praying? He's just going to do what he wants anyway, right?

Your response seems to line up with my 3rd choice. God doesn't give a shit.

I have no idea. I don't know what is going on any more than you do. However, the point of that is we don't know - not that things must be the way we think they are. Your premise is that you do know and you assume God must think the same way you do. I don't accept that premise.

 

[Caroljo]

Most times people go through trials, they suffer pain in their lives.....and most come out of it a better person for it. Haven't you had times that you just don't know what you're going to do, how will you get through this mess? And you always come through "somehow"? Probably not.....
I've had these times. Prayer always helps me cope with anything going on. It doesn't mean I'm not going to suffer just because I'm a Christian. God puts roadblocks up, he see's how we handle these and most times, looking back on it all, I can see where he was going with it and I'm a better person because of it. Sometimes because of my suffering, I'm able to help someone else that finds themselves going through the same thing. There's a reason these things happen, we don't always understand it at the time....but we just need to trust that God is always with us and won't give us more than we can bear.

 

[Caroljo]

So if it's all a part of his Grand plan, why bother praying? He's going to do what he wants anyway including making children suffer. He's proven that he's capable of doing horrible things to innocent people so why bother praying?

There can be a Grand Scheme in which a baby getting cancer does not (in the VERY long term matter; but that does not mean that the death of a child is ever "necessary." So, it remains possible that a simple petition to the Almighty (i.e., a prayer) may change the outcome. Or maybe not.

But nothing I said is inconsistent with either free will or with my argument which is that YOUR false set of choices are false.

LOL, so God can change his plan for people, if they just pray hard enough? How the fuck do you reconcile the shit you spew?

Yes He CAN change his plan. If you knew anything about the Bible, you would know that when Moses led his people out of Egypt, during the time they were wandering God wanted to destroy the people for things they did and said and Moses prayed for them each time, and each time God let them live. Prayer works....I've seen it many times.

 

[Caroljo]

No there isn't. Prayer, as we've established, is a waste of time. Since God will do what he wants anyway prayer is pointless.

You haven't established anything. You havent even considered all the options.

I certainly have. They are all clearly laid out in the OP. Prayer is pointless and is mental masturbation at best.

It may be pointless to you because you don't believe. Prayer is strong and it does work. You may not always get the results that you were hoping for, but that's because God has other plans and it ALWAYS ends up for the best. If you've never experienced it, you will never understand it.

 

[koshergrl]

No, I have not tried meditation. I am certainly open to it. I have done Yoga and extensive breathing relaxation and understand the power behind it and am all for that. I am certainly not against trying anything.

You should, and also look into astral projection.

I think if you pursue those two (at some point) in a dedicated manner, I could guarantee you will have an entirely new outlook on what "god" is (or could be).

.

Like I said, I'm open to trying anything but it would take something dramatic to convince me to ignore all sensibility and the world we live in and believe in a higher power.

That's called being closed minded, in case you were wondering. You're setting yourself to reject everything except miracles.

 

[koshergrl]

You haven't established anything. You havent even considered all the options.

I certainly have. They are all clearly laid out in the OP. Prayer is pointless and is mental masturbation at best.

It may be pointless to you because you don't believe. Prayer is strong and it does work. You may not always get the results that you were hoping for, but that's because God has other plans and it ALWAYS ends up for the best. If you've never experienced it, you will never understand it.

Prayer is stupid!

He's going with astral projection.

 

[RDD_1210]

I don't see why those are the only three options. How about, because God is letting us learn how to deal with things ourselves rather than fixing it for us? When I taught my kids how to ride a bike, there came a time when I just had to step back and watch.

So what lessons are to be learned by giving kids cancer or by letting a mother and infant die in a fire? What is god teaching us there?

If god is just going to step back and watch, why do people bother praying? He's just going to do what he wants anyway, right?

Your response seems to line up with my 3rd choice. God doesn't give a shit.

I have no idea. I don't know what is going on any more than you do. However, the point of that is we don't know - not that things must be the way we think they are. Your premise is that you do know and you assume God must think the same way you do. I don't accept that premise.

You're right, I don't know....not with 100% certainty. The same that we don't know that Danny Devito isn't God himself or that Big Foot isn't real. ANYTHING is possible, but that doesn't mean anything is probable. Big difference and the facts and logic all point to God probably doesn't exist.

 

[RDD_1210]

There can be a Grand Scheme in which a baby getting cancer does not (in the VERY long term matter; but that does not mean that the death of a child is ever "necessary." So, it remains possible that a simple petition to the Almighty (i.e., a prayer) may change the outcome. Or maybe not.

But nothing I said is inconsistent with either free will or with my argument which is that YOUR false set of choices are false.

LOL, so God can change his plan for people, if they just pray hard enough? How the fuck do you reconcile the shit you spew?

Yes He CAN change his plan. If you knew anything about the Bible, you would know that when Moses led his people out of Egypt, during the time they were wandering God wanted to destroy the people for things they did and said and Moses prayed for them each time, and each time God let them live. Prayer works....I've seen it many times.

LOL, the fact that none of you can agree on what God can and can't do is amazing in itself.

 

[RDD_1210]

You haven't established anything. You havent even considered all the options.

I certainly have. They are all clearly laid out in the OP. Prayer is pointless and is mental masturbation at best.

It may be pointless to you because you don't believe. Prayer is strong and it does work. You may not always get the results that you were hoping for, but that's because God has other plans and it ALWAYS ends up for the best. If you've never experienced it, you will never understand it.

So if God is going to do what he wants to do anyway, why pray?

It ALWAYS ends up for the best? Tell that to a mother who loses her child to cancer.

Tell that to a parent who had a child gunned down at school.

It doesn't always end up for the best and there is no God.

 

[RDD_1210]

You should, and also look into astral projection.

I think if you pursue those two (at some point) in a dedicated manner, I could guarantee you will have an entirely new outlook on what "god" is (or could be).

.

Like I said, I'm open to trying anything but it would take something dramatic to convince me to ignore all sensibility and the world we live in and believe in a higher power.

That's called being closed minded, in case you were wondering. You're setting yourself to reject everything except miracles.

Do you accept that possibility that God doesn't exist and never has existed and is just a made up entity by man?