One of the following MUST be true about God

[RDD_1210]

Let me ask you; do you believe that the point of our existence (on this planet) is for everyone to be completely comfortable, and that's it? Perhaps all of us are to be given huts on an endless beach, and some space to just lay around all day (getting tan). Unlimited food and no issues whatsoever.

Would that be a meaningful existence in your view?

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Meaningful? Perhaps....what is meaningful is different for every person and every organism.

I've asked what you think of that existence. To me, it sounds boring.

Would people still experience the same thrill of mountain climbing if there wasn't the threat of death?
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Of course not. That thrill produces adrenalin which acts as an endorphin. It's that positive feeling and the sense of accomplishment that motivates people.

How does any of this prove the existence of God?

 

[RDD_1210]

So then why bother praying? Why worship a god who will just let his plan unfold how he wants anyway? Why spend time praying when these bad these "need to happen" for us to grow as a population?

Best explaination I've seen:

As soon as we learn the true relationship in which we stand toward God (namely, God is our Father, and we are His children), then at once prayer becomes natural and instinctive on our part (Matt. 7:7–11). Many of the so-called difficulties about prayer arise from forgetting this relationship. Prayer is the act by which the will of the Father and the will of the child are brought into correspondence with each other. The object of prayer is not to change the will of God but to secure for ourselves and for others blessings that God is already willing to grant but that are made conditional on our asking for them. Blessings require some work or effort on our part before we can obtain them. Prayer is a form of work and is an appointed means for obtaining the highest of all blessings.

So then why do parents prayers go unanswered as their children die a slow and painful death from cancer? Were those parents not praying hard enough?

 

[KevinWestern]

Meaningful? Perhaps....what is meaningful is different for every person and every organism.

I've asked what you think of that existence. To me, it sounds boring.

Would people still experience the same thrill of mountain climbing if there wasn't the threat of death?
.

Of course not. That thrill produces adrenalin which acts as an endorphin. It's that positive feeling and the sense of accomplishment that motivates people.

How does any of this prove the existence of God?

Well, you're arguing that god should step in every time a "bad thing" is to happen; my argument is that if he did this, he would totally eliminate any sense of danger in this world, and we would all become mindless drones sitting on a beach with endless food, learning nothing.

Without pain and suffering, we would never learn. And without pain and suffering we would know no true joy.
.

 

[RDD_1210]

So then why bother praying? Why worship a god who will just let his plan unfold how he wants anyway? Why spend time praying when these bad these "need to happen" for us to grow as a population?

I don't know, when did I say praying was a requirement? And who’s to say that when people pray they’re only praying to God? Perhaps there are spirits that exist on different planes than we do who may assist here or there if they believe the cause is worthy (to them).

Personally, I think “praying” is also a semi-offshoot of meditation, and meditation is a tool to get in touch with yourself, your environment, and (ultimately) god.

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And perhaps there is a giant pink bunny in the sky that watches everything we do and answers prayers at the same rate "God" answers them. Sure, that's a possibility too and there's just as much evidence for that possibility as there is for the existence of God.

A state of mind and being in touch with ones on state is one thing, but believing in a higher power is something that requires throwing all logic, and good sense out the window in order to justify.

 

[RDD_1210]

I've asked what you think of that existence. To me, it sounds boring.

Would people still experience the same thrill of mountain climbing if there wasn't the threat of death?
.

Of course not. That thrill produces adrenalin which acts as an endorphin. It's that positive feeling and the sense of accomplishment that motivates people.

How does any of this prove the existence of God?

Well, you're arguing that god should step in every time a "bad thing" is to happen; my argument is that if he did this, he would totally eliminate any sense of danger in this world, and we would all become mindless drones sitting on a beach with endless food, learning nothing.

Without pain and suffering, we would never learn. And without pain and suffering we would know no true joy.
.

I agree that without pain and suffering we wouldn't learn. Put your hand in the fire and you'll learn to not do that again. That's fine and makes sense. But that only reinforces my point that we are in control of our own lives and our own fates and there is no God watching out for us and guiding what we do.

 

[KevinWestern]

So then why bother praying? Why worship a god who will just let his plan unfold how he wants anyway? Why spend time praying when these bad these "need to happen" for us to grow as a population?

I don't know, when did I say praying was a requirement? And who’s to say that when people pray they’re only praying to God? Perhaps there are spirits that exist on different planes than we do who may assist here or there if they believe the cause is worthy (to them).

Personally, I think “praying” is also a semi-offshoot of meditation, and meditation is a tool to get in touch with yourself, your environment, and (ultimately) god.

.

And perhaps there is a giant pink bunny in the sky that watches everything we do and answers prayers at the same rate "God" answers them. Sure, that's a possibility too and there's just as much evidence for that possibility as there is for the existence of God.

A state of mind and being in touch with ones on state is one thing, but believing in a higher power is something that requires throwing all logic, and good sense out the window in order to justify.

Gotcha. Glad you know exactly how the universe works.

Let me ask you - how old are you? Likely 20-50 years?

Our Universe is estimated to be over 5 billion years old, and expands to infinite lengths in every single direction. Fact is, you simply have no clue as to what is possible and what is not possible (and neither do I).

I see you're trying to "mock" me in your reply, but quite frankly it comes off as arrogant and nothing more. I suggest you revise your thoughts!

.

 

[KevinWestern]

Of course not. That thrill produces adrenalin which acts as an endorphin. It's that positive feeling and the sense of accomplishment that motivates people.

How does any of this prove the existence of God?

Well, you're arguing that god should step in every time a "bad thing" is to happen; my argument is that if he did this, he would totally eliminate any sense of danger in this world, and we would all become mindless drones sitting on a beach with endless food, learning nothing.

Without pain and suffering, we would never learn. And without pain and suffering we would know no true joy.
.

I agree that without pain and suffering we wouldn't learn. Put your hand in the fire and you'll learn to not do that again. That's fine and makes sense. But that only reinforces my point that we are in control of our own lives and our own fates and there is no God watching out for us and guiding what we do.

Except... who created that fire? Who created the environment for the learning to occur? It certainly wasn't you or I.

I don't claim to know, but there's a possibility a "god" created those things.

 

[RDD_1210]

I don't know, when did I say praying was a requirement? And who’s to say that when people pray they’re only praying to God? Perhaps there are spirits that exist on different planes than we do who may assist here or there if they believe the cause is worthy (to them).

Personally, I think “praying” is also a semi-offshoot of meditation, and meditation is a tool to get in touch with yourself, your environment, and (ultimately) god.

.

And perhaps there is a giant pink bunny in the sky that watches everything we do and answers prayers at the same rate "God" answers them. Sure, that's a possibility too and there's just as much evidence for that possibility as there is for the existence of God.

A state of mind and being in touch with ones on state is one thing, but believing in a higher power is something that requires throwing all logic, and good sense out the window in order to justify.

Gotcha. Glad you know exactly how the universe works.

Let me ask you - how old are you? Likely 20-50 years?

Our Universe is estimated to be over 5 billion years old, and expands to infinite lengths in every single direction. Fact is, you simply have no clue as to what is possible and what is not possible (and neither do I).

I see you're trying to "mock" me in your reply, but quite frankly it comes off as arrogant and nothing more. I suggest you revise your thoughts!

.

I have NO clue how the universe works and that's the whole point. To attribute so much of the unknown to the workings of an imaginary being seems extremely lazy and an easy way out. I am fascinated by how we came to be, what is beyond our planet and everything about the way life works in harmony. I want to understand how it all works, and that's why I look for answers based upon information and reality.

Believing stories written by man in books from thousands of years ago claiming the existence of a hypocritical being that created everything and is perfect in every way yet allows terrible things to happen is lazy and conceited.

My mind is WAY more open to hearing the truth than anyone that gives up and just believes "God" is the answer.

 

[RDD_1210]

Well, you're arguing that god should step in every time a "bad thing" is to happen; my argument is that if he did this, he would totally eliminate any sense of danger in this world, and we would all become mindless drones sitting on a beach with endless food, learning nothing.

Without pain and suffering, we would never learn. And without pain and suffering we would know no true joy.
.

I agree that without pain and suffering we wouldn't learn. Put your hand in the fire and you'll learn to not do that again. That's fine and makes sense. But that only reinforces my point that we are in control of our own lives and our own fates and there is no God watching out for us and guiding what we do.

Except... who created that fire? Who created the environment for the learning to occur? It certainly wasn't you or I.

I don't claim to know, but there's a possibility a "god" created those things.

Of course there is a possibility that God created those things. But if we're being honest, there is just as much of a chance that a 3 headed purple octopus created those things as well.

 

[KevinWestern]

I have NO clue how the universe works and that's the whole point. To attribute so much of the unknown to the workings of an imaginary being seems extremely lazy and an easy way out. I am fascinated by how we came to be, what is beyond our planet and everything about the way life works in harmony. I want to understand how it all works, and that's why I look for answers based upon information and reality.

Believing stories written by man in books from thousands of years ago claiming the existence of a hypocritical being that created everything and is perfect in every way yet allows terrible things to happen is lazy and conceited.

My mind is WAY more open to hearing the truth than anyone that gives up and just believes "God" is the answer.

I think you're confusing me with a Christian or a Muslim. I don't subscribe to any religion, and any thoughts I have on god, spirits, ect are all via my personal experiences through deep meditation and reflecting (and hearing about the experiences of modern individuals).

You should look into something called "Astral Projection"...

.

 

[KevinWestern]

I agree that without pain and suffering we wouldn't learn. Put your hand in the fire and you'll learn to not do that again. That's fine and makes sense. But that only reinforces my point that we are in control of our own lives and our own fates and there is no God watching out for us and guiding what we do.

Except... who created that fire? Who created the environment for the learning to occur? It certainly wasn't you or I.

I don't claim to know, but there's a possibility a "god" created those things.

Of course there is a possibility that God created those things. But if we're being honest, there is just as much of a chance that a 3 headed purple octopus created those things as well.

Not necessarily. A three headed purple octopus is pretty darn specific (and therefore the odds are quite low); "god" is a term to describe an undefined higher intelligence of some sort (non-specific, higher odds).

.

 

[RDD_1210]

I have NO clue how the universe works and that's the whole point. To attribute so much of the unknown to the workings of an imaginary being seems extremely lazy and an easy way out. I am fascinated by how we came to be, what is beyond our planet and everything about the way life works in harmony. I want to understand how it all works, and that's why I look for answers based upon information and reality.

Believing stories written by man in books from thousands of years ago claiming the existence of a hypocritical being that created everything and is perfect in every way yet allows terrible things to happen is lazy and conceited.

My mind is WAY more open to hearing the truth than anyone that gives up and just believes "God" is the answer.

I think you're confusing me with a Christian or a Muslim. I don't subscribe to any religion, and any thoughts I have on god, spirits, ect are all via my personal experiences through deep meditation and reflecting (and hearing about the experiences of modern individuals).

You should look into something called "Astral Projection"...

.

I am not making assumptions about you at all. All I know is that you somehow think an invisible entity has something to do with the world around us and I don't see how someone can believe that with everything we do know and even have yet to learn about the world.

 

[Avatar4321]

So then why do parents prayers go unanswered as their children die a slow and painful death from cancer? Were those parents not praying hard enough?

Again false dilemna. Just because we don't get the answer we may want, doesn't mean don't get answers.

You are also incorrectly assuming that the only prayer a parent will have is for healing. Many such prayers include prayers of peace through the stressful time. Prayers for strength to endure the trial. There could be prayer for countless other things.

You have however, demonstrated once again that you didn't actually read what I wrote. Or else you would have read:

The object of prayer is not to change the will of God but to secure for ourselves and for others blessings that God is already willing to grant but that are made conditional on our asking for them.

 

[RDD_1210]

Except... who created that fire? Who created the environment for the learning to occur? It certainly wasn't you or I.

I don't claim to know, but there's a possibility a "god" created those things.

Of course there is a possibility that God created those things. But if we're being honest, there is just as much of a chance that a 3 headed purple octopus created those things as well.

Not necessarily. A three headed purple octopus is pretty darn specific (and therefore the odds are quite low); "god" is a term to describe an undefined higher intelligence of some sort (non-specific, higher odds).

.

LOL, Ok God is a broader term and my one off example is pretty specific. Both are possible while highly unlikely.

 

[RDD_1210]

So then why do parents prayers go unanswered as their children die a slow and painful death from cancer? Were those parents not praying hard enough?

Again false dilemna. Just because we don't get the answer we may want, doesn't mean don't get answers.

You are also incorrectly assuming that the only prayer a parent will have is for healing. Many such prayers include prayers of peace through the stressful time. Prayers for strength to endure the trial. There could be prayer for countless other things.

You have however, demonstrated once again that you didn't actually read what I wrote. Or else you would have read:

The object of prayer is not to change the will of God but to secure for ourselves and for others blessings that God is already willing to grant but that are made conditional on our asking for them.

Oh so God will save the child from dying, but ONLY if you ask him. That's some God.

 

[Avatar4321]

I agree that without pain and suffering we wouldn't learn. Put your hand in the fire and you'll learn to not do that again. That's fine and makes sense. But that only reinforces my point that we are in control of our own lives and our own fates and there is no God watching out for us and guiding what we do.

Which is the entire flaw with the thread. Your questioning isn't sincere. You are trying to prove a point rather than trying to learn and understand. Which is why you never will understand. In order to understand, you actually have to sincerely seek the answers.

Humble yourself. Seek knowledge and wisdom instead of trying to prove a point and you will obtain real answers for your questions. Ask and ye shall recieve, seek and ye shall find.

These are blessings you can obtain through prayer if you just do it.

 

[Avatar4321]

So then why do parents prayers go unanswered as their children die a slow and painful death from cancer? Were those parents not praying hard enough?

Again false dilemna. Just because we don't get the answer we may want, doesn't mean don't get answers.

You are also incorrectly assuming that the only prayer a parent will have is for healing. Many such prayers include prayers of peace through the stressful time. Prayers for strength to endure the trial. There could be prayer for countless other things.

You have however, demonstrated once again that you didn't actually read what I wrote. Or else you would have read:

The object of prayer is not to change the will of God but to secure for ourselves and for others blessings that God is already willing to grant but that are made conditional on our asking for them.

Oh so God will save the child from dying, but ONLY if you ask him. That's some God.

God has already saved the child from dying. He has already saved us all from dying. The resurrection ensures that we will all rise from the dead. Thus when and how we die is irrelevant in our already Immortal life.

 

[RDD_1210]

I agree that without pain and suffering we wouldn't learn. Put your hand in the fire and you'll learn to not do that again. That's fine and makes sense. But that only reinforces my point that we are in control of our own lives and our own fates and there is no God watching out for us and guiding what we do.

Which is the entire flaw with the thread. Your questioning isn't sincere. You are trying to prove a point rather than trying to learn and understand. Which is why you never will understand. In order to understand, you actually have to sincerely seek the answers.

Humble yourself. Seek knowledge and wisdom instead of trying to prove a point and you will obtain real answers for your questions. Ask and ye shall recieve, seek and ye shall find.

These are blessings you can obtain through prayer if you just do it.

No there isn't. Prayer, as we've established, is a waste of time. Since God will do what he wants anyway prayer is pointless.

 

[RDD_1210]

Again false dilemna. Just because we don't get the answer we may want, doesn't mean don't get answers.

You are also incorrectly assuming that the only prayer a parent will have is for healing. Many such prayers include prayers of peace through the stressful time. Prayers for strength to endure the trial. There could be prayer for countless other things.

You have however, demonstrated once again that you didn't actually read what I wrote. Or else you would have read:

Oh so God will save the child from dying, but ONLY if you ask him. That's some God.

God has already saved the child from dying. He has already saved us all from dying. The resurrection ensures that we will all rise from the dead. Thus when and how we die is irrelevant in our already Immortal life.

LOL. No one is coming back. No one has come back from the dead before and no one will in the future. Once you open your eyes and accept you get one shot at life you will have a much different tune.

 

[KevinWestern]

I am not making assumptions about you at all. All I know is that you somehow think an invisible entity has something to do with the world around us and I don't see how someone can believe that with everything we do know and even have yet to learn about the world.

Hey, I'm speaking from my own personal experience with meditation, astral projection, and other methods of spiritual exploration.

It's hard to describe these thoughts/beliefs via words because they don’t tend to translate very well. Again, I suggest you mediate and embark on your own spiritual journey (seeking answers) before ending up at those conclusions.

You might be surprised what you find.

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