One of the following MUST be true about God

[RDD_1210]

What part of He's already taken upon Himself the pains and suffering of all men is difficult to understand? He's already enabled us to be healed and given us Immortality.

So in plain English explain to me like I'm 5 years old why children are allowed to suffer and die.

I don't know how I can be clearer than my Second post on this thread.

Of course you don't.

 

[RDD_1210]

So the evil you hate in the world. Is that Evil part of Gods plan?

There needs to be opposition in all things. How could we choose good over evil if evil isn't a choice?

So God chooses to give kids cancer. God tells people to shoot kids at school? Or God sees it and decides not to stop it? Which is it?

 

[KevinWestern]

So then God is powerless....or doesn't exist to begin with. I'll go with the latter.

Powerless? why? Because he lets us make mistakes without intervening?

Again, I view life as a journey of personal and collective growth and without free will we would have neither of those things.

I think you’re simplifying things too much, and relying a lot on your human perspective (vs an overall macro perspective of how things work in unison with one another).

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Simplifying? I am trying to understand how terrible things can happen to innocent people every day and people still believe that a God is out there looking for us. It doesn't make any sense and don't give me that "we're not supposed to understand his plan" because that's the laziest possible answer that is the equivalent of raising a white flag. You might as well say, I don't know but I don't care...I'll just continue to believe anyway, despite the logic of the situation telling me otherwise.

Let me ask you; do you believe that the point of our existence (on this planet) is for everyone to be completely comfortable, and that's it? Perhaps all of us are to be given huts on an endless beach, and some space to just lay around all day (getting tan). Unlimited food and no issues whatsoever.

Would that be a meaningful existence in your view?

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[Avatar4321]

So God isn't all powerful then? That would go back to my 3rd option. God is incompetent.

Nope you're forgetting one thing God gave the Angels and man freewill to choose right from wrong.

He is also wrong in terms of time. "One day" may simply not yet be here. But since he dimly recognizes that things have not yet come to the point where humans behave in a way consistent with the ultimate goal, RDD just ignores that time element.

RDD ain't all that bright.

I don't believe he isn't that bright at all. He just doesn't want to look at the situation from a different perspective. He doesn't want to consider things contrary to his conclusions for whatever reason.

 

[RDD_1210]

As usual, your desired conclusion simply does not logically follow from the premises.

God may be more than powerful enough to interfere with our free will, for example, but simply committed to not doing so.

And of course, in that case, His lack of action leaves no trace of any proof that He exists, but that is not at all the same as using His inaction as "proof" that He does not exist.

Try to learn SOME logic. It could help you some day.

You are trying to justify something that you've never seen, yet you claim is all powerful, all loving and yet still can't/won't prevent kids from dying from cancer.....and you're telling ME to learn to use logic?? That's priceless.

Let's blame God for our choices.

I don't blame God for anything. Since he doesn't exist. Our choices are our own.

 

[RDD_1210]

Perhaps, but who are we to decide when a situation "needs" God to step in?


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An child suffering and dying is a pretty worthy situation. No?

Again… free will. We must learn from our mistakes.

If God swooped in every time a kid was sick and dying, or everytime a war was about to begin, or evertime you weren’t paying attention and was about to get struck by a truck… what would be the point of our existence? What lessons would we learn? What habbits would we be forced to recognize and change internally?

I don’t believe it’s God’s job to be our police officer; he's instead guiding us on our personal growth.

And again, it's all relative! We're living in a relative paradise compared to the folks in Medieval Europe, where 99% were poor and would die of disease or some other violent means by 40.

Yet we still complain... See where I'm getting at?

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So you think our progress as a society is because God guided us? So if all the death and destruction is part of our lesson, why bother praying? It's all a part of Gods plan, so there is no point in praying since his plan is set.

 

[KevinWestern]

So the evil you hate in the world. Is that Evil part of Gods plan?

There needs to be opposition in all things. How could we choose good over evil if evil isn't a choice?

So God chooses to give kids cancer. God tells people to shoot kids at school? Or God sees it and decides not to stop it? Which is it?

Perhaps the shootings are a bi-product of something we (as a society) are not doing correctly and must learn to fix.

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[DarkLion]

None of the above. You answered the question yourself. None of these events make any sense and would leave any sane person wondering how God plays a part in those events occuring. You answered it! ( Are you sane? )

He doesn't!

Had you read your bible you'd know Satan is the one who causes sickness, murder, death, disease, not God! God is a healer! I am the LORD that healeth thee! - Exodus

Satan is the one who requested permission from God to touch Jobs body - Job had a hedge of protection around him. God allowed Satan to test his servant but not kill him. In the end Job was rewarded double fold for his trouble and affliction.

Your problem here is that you are blaming the wrong one. Blame Satan. He is the one who has come to steal ( your health ) Kill ( murder ) destroy ( chaos ) in your life. Understand? Read your bible.

- Jeremiah

And yet God allows Satan to do these things. You might say Satan is working on behalf of God, because if God objected he could simply destroy Satan, right? Or is Satan more powerful?

 

[RDD_1210]

Powerless? why? Because he lets us make mistakes without intervening?

Again, I view life as a journey of personal and collective growth and without free will we would have neither of those things.

I think you’re simplifying things too much, and relying a lot on your human perspective (vs an overall macro perspective of how things work in unison with one another).

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Simplifying? I am trying to understand how terrible things can happen to innocent people every day and people still believe that a God is out there looking for us. It doesn't make any sense and don't give me that "we're not supposed to understand his plan" because that's the laziest possible answer that is the equivalent of raising a white flag. You might as well say, I don't know but I don't care...I'll just continue to believe anyway, despite the logic of the situation telling me otherwise.

Let me ask you; do you believe that the point of our existence (on this planet) is for everyone to be completely comfortable, and that's it? Perhaps all of us are to be given huts on an endless beach, and some space to just lay around all day (getting tan). Unlimited food and no issues whatsoever.

Would that be a meaningful existence in your view?

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Meaningful? Perhaps....what is meaningful is different for every person and every organism.

 

[Avatar4321]

So God isn't all powerful then? That would go back to my 3rd option. God is incompetent.

Nope you're forgetting one thing God gave the Angels and man freewill to choose right from wrong.

So God gave man freewill but then he kills people when they don't do what he wants? Say, with a big flood that wipes out everyone but a man, his family and two of every animal. Why give people free will if he's just going to murder them when they don't behave how he wants.

You are never going to understand any of this until you let go of this limited mortal view.

When you look at things from an Eternal viewpoint, the answers aren't difficult to find at all. When you realize that mortality is but a small moment in our Eternal lives and that the Lord has the keys over life and death you would understand that there is no murder on God's part.

Murder is unlawful taking of life. God in his position as Creator holds the keys of life or death. He determines how long or short our life is regardless if we die in natural disasters or old age. Every single one of is is going to die regardless of the method we go out. The fact that it may be earlier in our life in circumstances we won't like doesn't make it murder.

And because of His Eternal Sacrifice, no matter when we die or how we die, God has given us all the gift of Immortality through the Resurrection. He has taken our sins and our physical pains upon Himself. Through His sacrifice, we are healed of all our sufferings and even our death.

You will never understand God from a believers perspective until you actually look at Him through a believers perspective. You can't look at Him through your perspective, ignore the believers perspective and declare your viewpoints as the only ones possible. It's completely illogical.

 

[RDD_1210]

There needs to be opposition in all things. How could we choose good over evil if evil isn't a choice?

So God chooses to give kids cancer. God tells people to shoot kids at school? Or God sees it and decides not to stop it? Which is it?

Perhaps the shootings are a bi-product of something we (as a society) are not doing correctly and must learn to fix.

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Perhaps it is. So then that means your answer is God sees it and chooses not to step in.

 

[KevinWestern]

So you think our progress as a society is because God guided us? So if all the death and destruction is part of our lesson, why bother praying? It's all a part of Gods plan, so there is no point in praying since his plan is set.

You seem to forget about all of the good stuff that happens in this world.

I'm not God, nor claim to know what he thinks, but I will say that I believe that the world operates on a giant balance. When kids in America get an abundance of cheap toys and giant homes, kids in China get to work 15 hour shifts and live in factory dormitories.

When one nation is reaping all of the resources of the planet, other suffering nations (who need those resources) end up starting wars.

If God were to intervene at every moment something "bad" was to happen, what lessons would we learn? That we could do anything and not fear the consequences?

.

 

[Avatar4321]

No? Then why do kids Die of cancer?

Oh, We're just not smart enough to understand that part of his plan. Right?

Tell me that's your lazy ass answer to a question that you know makes no sense when justifying the existence of an "all power, all loving" being that still will make children suffer.

Considering we've given you multiple reasons and you haven't considered any of them seriously, trying to claim we aren't smart enough to understand that part of the plan seems a bit disingenious.

 

[RDD_1210]

So you think our progress as a society is because God guided us? So if all the death and destruction is part of our lesson, why bother praying? It's all a part of Gods plan, so there is no point in praying since his plan is set.

You seem to forget about all of the good stuff that happens in this world.

I'm not God, nor claim to know what he thinks, but I will say that I believe that the world operates on a giant balance. When kids in America get an abundance of cheap toys and giant homes, kids in China get to work 15 hour shifts and live in factory dormitories.

When one nation is reaping all of the resources of the planet, other suffering nations (who need those resources) end up starting wars.

If God were to intervene at every moment something "bad" was to happen, what lessons would we learn? That we could do anything and not fear the consequences?

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So then why bother praying? Why worship a god who will just let his plan unfold how he wants anyway? Why spend time praying when these bad these "need to happen" for us to grow as a population?

 

[Avatar4321]

So if you subscribe to the "We were given free will" theory, then God doesn't really have any power over what happens to people. That's up to each of us to decide, correct?

There is nothing incompatible with free will and the sovereignty of God. Free agency is and always was part of the plan. The fact that He respects our agency doesn't mean things are out of His control.

 

[KevinWestern]

Simplifying? I am trying to understand how terrible things can happen to innocent people every day and people still believe that a God is out there looking for us. It doesn't make any sense and don't give me that "we're not supposed to understand his plan" because that's the laziest possible answer that is the equivalent of raising a white flag. You might as well say, I don't know but I don't care...I'll just continue to believe anyway, despite the logic of the situation telling me otherwise.

Let me ask you; do you believe that the point of our existence (on this planet) is for everyone to be completely comfortable, and that's it? Perhaps all of us are to be given huts on an endless beach, and some space to just lay around all day (getting tan). Unlimited food and no issues whatsoever.

Would that be a meaningful existence in your view?

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Meaningful? Perhaps....what is meaningful is different for every person and every organism.

I've asked what you think of that existence. To me, it sounds boring.

Would people still experience the same thrill of mountain climbing if there wasn't the threat of death? The lowest of lows makes the highest of highs more significant and joyful. Remember that...
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[RDD_1210]

No? Then why do kids Die of cancer?

Oh, We're just not smart enough to understand that part of his plan. Right?

Tell me that's your lazy ass answer to a question that you know makes no sense when justifying the existence of an "all power, all loving" being that still will make children suffer.

Considering we've given you multiple reasons and you haven't considered any of them seriously, trying to claim we aren't smart enough to understand that part of the plan seems a bit disingenious.

You haven't given a single reason. Because "it's part of his plan" is a cop-out for people who don't have an answer.

 

[Avatar4321]

So then why bother praying? Why worship a god who will just let his plan unfold how he wants anyway? Why spend time praying when these bad these "need to happen" for us to grow as a population?

Best explaination I've seen:

As soon as we learn the true relationship in which we stand toward God (namely, God is our Father, and we are His children), then at once prayer becomes natural and instinctive on our part (Matt. 7:7–11). Many of the so-called difficulties about prayer arise from forgetting this relationship. Prayer is the act by which the will of the Father and the will of the child are brought into correspondence with each other. The object of prayer is not to change the will of God but to secure for ourselves and for others blessings that God is already willing to grant but that are made conditional on our asking for them. Blessings require some work or effort on our part before we can obtain them. Prayer is a form of work and is an appointed means for obtaining the highest of all blessings.

 

[Avatar4321]

No? Then why do kids Die of cancer?

Oh, We're just not smart enough to understand that part of his plan. Right?

Tell me that's your lazy ass answer to a question that you know makes no sense when justifying the existence of an "all power, all loving" being that still will make children suffer.

Considering we've given you multiple reasons and you haven't considered any of them seriously, trying to claim we aren't smart enough to understand that part of the plan seems a bit disingenious.

You haven't given a single reason. Because "it's part of his plan" is a cop-out for people who don't have an answer.

Then you need to reread because you're question has been answered multiple times by multiple people and "Its part of his plan" wasnt the answer given.

 

[KevinWestern]

So then why bother praying? Why worship a god who will just let his plan unfold how he wants anyway? Why spend time praying when these bad these "need to happen" for us to grow as a population?

I don't know, when did I say praying was a requirement? And who’s to say that when people pray they’re only praying to God? Perhaps there are spirits that exist on different planes than we do who may assist here or there if they believe the cause is worthy (to them).

Personally, I think “praying” is also a semi-offshoot of meditation, and meditation is a tool to get in touch with yourself, your environment, and (ultimately) god.

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