Open Borders

[Gunny]

It's not a blame game Rav, it's fact. Didn't you read my reply up a couple posts?

Things change. What may have worked two hundred years ago, a hundred years ago, twenty years ago may be disastrous today. Not to mention that the number of illegal aliens in this country used to be next to nothing compared to today.

Oh no ... not the "Great Melting Pot," "give us your tired, your poor, ..." argument again. That was fine when we lived in a sparsely populated nation. We can't even sustain ourselves anymore and the do-gooders are cracking me up. Our economy's in shambles and they STILL want to let illegals come in here and overburden it some more.

Like I always say about wannabe-intellectual, leftwingnuts ... they make relative arguments to the point of not even defending one's self. Yeah, screw us and our economy and our way of life. Let's feel sorry for the poor illegals who have helped drag it down to where it is.

 

[sky dancer]

Did you expect it to be initiated without resistance ?

Of course not. I probably won't see it in my lifetime. It's just the direction the world is going.

Consequently, it makes sense to talk about it. We have already moved toward allowing free trade of goods and services. The free movement of people is next.

 

[dilloduck]

Of course not. I probably won't see it in my lifetime. It's just the direction the world is going.

Consequently, it makes sense to talk about it. We have already moved toward allowing free trade of goods and services. The free movement of people is next.

according to who ?

 

[Gunny]

Open borders is an idea that I'm interested in discussing. We do discuss political ideas here don't we?

Transnationalism is the wave of the future.

Current immigration policy is based on a historical racist and colonial relationship to third world countries.

Discussing an idea and dismissing whatever you don't want to hear are two completely different things.

Our current immigration policy is based on how many people you can cram in X amount of space and how many jobs there are for X amount of people.

Red herring alert. Nothing racist about it. An illegal alien is an illegal alien regardless race or nationality.

Transnationalism is self-destructive, and will lead to nothing but dragging us down to the level of the 3rd world. You may be striving for mediocrity. I am not.

 

[Gunny]

Of course not. I probably won't see it in my lifetime. It's just the direction the world is going.

Consequently, it makes sense to talk about it. We have already moved toward allowing free trade of goods and services. The free movement of people is next.

That's your misguided and uneducated opinion. The world will NEVER go that way.

 

[sky dancer]

The world will change and not always in the direction any one individual wants it to.

 

[sky dancer]

according to who ?

A long article I'm halfway through called Equality, Justice and the Problem of International Borders" the Case of Immigration Regulation by Harold Bauder

 

[sky dancer]

That's your misguided and uneducated opinion. The world will NEVER go that way.

Unless, you are God almighty, that statement you made is itself misguided. It is a logical fallacy called 'generalization'.

 

[dilloduck]

A long article I'm halfway through called Equality, Justice and the Problem of International Borders" the Case of Immigration Regulation by Harold Bauder

well tell Harold we gotta enough trouble with transexuals----we pass on the trans-national stuff.

 

[sky dancer]

well tell Harold we gotta enough trouble with transexuals----we pass on the trans-national stuff.

Here's the truth. The world population has gotten more mobile. Many people live in more than one country and have multiple citizen status.

We are all for free trade.

"Proponents of transnationalism seek to facilitate the flow of people, ideas, and goods between regions. They believe that it has increasing relevance with the rapid growth of globalization. They contend that it does not make sense to link specific nation-state boundaries with for instance migratory workforces, globalized corporations, global money flow, global information flow, and global scientific cooperation.

Transnationalism designates a recent shift in migration patterns. Migration used to be a rather directed movement with a point of departure and a point of arrival. It is nowadays increasingly turning into an ongoing movement between two or more social spaces. Facilitated by increased global transportation and telecommunication technologies, more and more migrants have developed strong transnational ties to more than one home country, blurring the congruence of social space and geographic space."
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Transnationalism



"There is a time and a place in the ceaseless human endeavor to change the world, when alternative visions, no matter how fantastic, provide the grist for shaping powerful forces for change."

David Harvey

 

[dilloduck]

Here's the truth. The world population has gotten more mobile. Many people live in more than one country and have multiple citizen status.

We are all for free trade.

"There is a time and a place in the ceaseless human endeavor to change the world, when alternative visions, no matter how fantastic, provide the grist for shaping powerful forces for change."

David Harvey

well tell David I think the change he's talking about sucks too. I don't WANT to be a citizen of the world.

 

[sky dancer]

well tell David I think the change he's talking about sucks too. I don't WANT to be a citizen of the world.

Sure honey. I'll be sure and tell him that. I am an American citizen and a citizen of the world.

 

[dilloduck]

Sure honey. I'll be sure and tell him that. I am an American citizen and a citizen of the world.

Who did ya vote for in the last international election ?

 

[sky dancer]

Who did ya vote for in the last international election ?

Barack Obama

 

[dilloduck]

Barack Obama

How did he do in China ?

 

[sky dancer]

How did he do in China ?

Not so well. They think he may favor human rights for the Tibetans.

 

[dilloduck]

Not so well. They think he may favor human rights for the Tibetans.

You mean China doesn't let people just walk in an out of their country and do anything they want ???

 

[AVG-JOE]

That's not true at all. Legal residents, if laid off, are intitled to unemployment. Many legal immigrants come over here and have organizations to help them to live off the system. These organizations are free to them and many of them get our tax dollars to function. We have no such organizations to help Americans learn to work the system.

At one time they tried to take ssi away from people who weren't citizens and the outcry was enourmous. The newspaper printed up a story of an old lady living in subsidized housing in Tacoma that had been living off the tax payer for decades. She didn't speak a word of English. She was not a citizen, but she was a legal resident (I don't know, maybe she was one of those granted amnesty).

O.k. o.k. - you guys are right... I mean that only citizens should be eligible for public services. I said it wrong. I will be the first to agree that a big part of the problem with the current reality is the strain that illegal visitors are putting on the public safety nets.

The answer is in knowing who is visiting and sending them home if they can't feed themselves. (making sure that they pay for the ticket home before they can re enter).

-Joe

 

[sky dancer]

You mean China doesn't let people just walk in an out of their country and do anything they want ???

No. That was Tibet who let the Chinese in to kill 1.2 million and descrate 6000 monasteries.

Thanks Mao.

 

[WillowTree]

What I'd like to do in this thread is discuss the idea of open borders. There is a book I'd like to read by Jason Riley, a writer for the Wall Street Journal editorial page called LET THEM IN.
Amazon.com: Customer Reviews: Let Them In: The Case for Open Borders

why don;'t you start by explaining how open borders work exactly,, who pays the bills? for medicine and for education,, are all countries expected to cooperate equally??? doyathink?