Open Borders

[Againsheila]

Buddhist practice kindness. Libra in astrology shows the scale. It means balance. It means to weigh both sides of an issue.

I just happen to pick the least popular side to debate in immigration. Why not?

Gee, my sister in law from Thailand is a Buddist and she hates it when you call an illegal alien an immigrant, she considers it an insult to her. Having had to compete with illegals for jobs when she got here, she wasn't too happy with them at all, still isn't.

 

[dilloduck]

Buddhist practice kindness. Libra in astrology shows the scale. It means balance. It means to weigh both sides of an issue.

I just happen to pick the least popular side to debate in immigration. Why not?

Probably because you are personally invested in on side of the argument but hey---nothing sayd you ahve to be "balanced" all the time.

 

[sky dancer]

Gee, my sister in law from Thailand is a Buddist and she hates it when you call an illegal alien an immigrant, she considers it an insult to her. Having had to compete with illegals for jobs when she got here, she wasn't too happy with them at all, still isn't.

Of course Sheila. All Buddhists don't think alike. Your sister in law has every right to feel as she does.

I'm sorry she feels insulted.

The truth is we do call people who move to this country for a better life immigrants--including the ones who sneak in without passports and visa.

 

[sky dancer]

I seriously doubt it...they aren't doing YOUR job.

Believe it or not, I enjoyed that job, especially the flight benefits. Heck I got to go to Japan, first class both directions for $350. Pay was crap but hey, first class on a 777, no way in heck I could ever afford that otherwise.

Sounds like a cool job.

 

[sky dancer]

Probably because you are personally invested in on side of the argument but hey---nothing sayd you ahve to be "balanced" all the time.

Not really. I'm not terribly invested in the immigration argument. It's the language arguments that interest me. How we frame the debate. I'm open to all possibilities.

 

[dilloduck]

Not really. I'm not terribly invested in the immigration argument. It's the language arguments that interest me. How we frame the debate. I'm open to all possibilities.

We all probably better be open to any possiblilty because we're sure not running the show.

 

[sky dancer]

We all probably better be open to any possiblilty because we're sure not running the show.

True enough. The whole situation is a mess.

 

[Againsheila]

Sounds like a cool job.

It was, and I miss it. I truly think our government should do something to bring those jobs back to this country.

 

[sky dancer]

It was, and I miss it. I truly think our government should do something to bring those jobs back to this country.

I agree. What would it take?

 

[Againsheila]

I agree. What would it take?

Someone other than the democrats or the republicans in charge.

 

[sky dancer]

Someone other than the democrats or the republicans in charge.

Who do you have in mind? Ron Paul for 2012?

 

[Againsheila]

Who do you have in mind? Ron Paul for 2012?

actually, I think it's too late. I think Americans lost their chance this last election to get a 3rd party into power without a bloody revolution and I think from this point on the only way to fix our country is a bloody revolution. We're in another depression and this one is worse than the last one. I don't see a way out of it. I just don't know which is coming first, the civil war, or the revolution. All I know is that America as we know it will no longer exist within 10 years.

And yep, I hope and pray I'm wrong.

 

[bk1983]

It was, and I miss it. I truly think our government should do something to bring those jobs back to this country.

Our government is not the ones who can bring back outsourced jobs.

Unless you are willing to take a pay cut. Businesses only have one

ultimate goal and that is to make money. If a company can slash 40%

from their operating budget by moving it overseas who is the gov't to

stop them? If you have two options with your goal being to succed and

maximize profits, one employess will cost you $9 an hour the other will do

the same job for $4 an hour. Who do you think will be chosen?

 

[Ravi]

I love Ravi's strategy. Make a claim. When this claim is disproven, ignore the evidence, and restate the claim. Well done.

You're just being silly now, aren't you? Or do you honestly think migrant and/or undocumented farmworkers started around the time of your bud Chavez? Ever hear of slavery? How about all the asian farmworkers in the 1800s? The Irish? To name but a few. All integrated.

 

[catzmeow]

You're just being silly now, aren't you? Or do you honestly think migrant and/or undocumented farmworkers started around the time of your bud Chavez? Ever hear of slavery? How about all the asian farmworkers in the 1800s? The Irish? To name but a few. All integrated.

You suggested that you didn't believe there was a point when Americans did this work themselves. As stated, there was. I even provided you with evidence of how illegal aliens were used to break the strikes used to improve the conditions for farm workers. You ignored it.

Exactly how many unskilled illegal workers do you think America can integrate before we stop being America, Ravi? Have you ever looked at the numbers of immigrants we currently are trying to integrate versus the numbers we've historically integrated? Your thinking patterns make no sense, whatsoever.

 

[WillowTree]

Open borders allow freedom of movement of people to come here and work and live. It does not grant citizenship. ID would still be necessary and whoever comes here must abide by our laws.

There already are people with dual citizenship.


It's just an idea, and one I'm investigating. I'm reading about it. Is it you idea that someone has to have every detail worked out in advance of a discussion?
How do you think we create anything? You start first with an idea and then you test it out.

Yes,, if you are going to back a project or an idea you probably should work out at least the big details such as who is going to pay the bill for education and for hea;th care?? I'm waiting for your answer.


and then tell me if all other countries must participate in your grandiose scheme of open borders,, is there equality for all? including US citizens??

 

[Againsheila]

Our government is not the ones who can bring back outsourced jobs.

Unless you are willing to take a pay cut. Businesses only have one

ultimate goal and that is to make money. If a company can slash 40%

from their operating budget by moving it overseas who is the gov't to

stop them? If you have two options with your goal being to succed and

maximize profits, one employess will cost you $9 an hour the other will do

the same job for $4 an hour. Who do you think will be chosen?

Sorry, but I'd already taken a pay cut. Some people at United had taken 3 of them. Labor is a VERY small percentage of the budget for a corporation. United is having more problems now, thanks to sending those jobs overseas. Even while I was working there, they opened that call center in India and there wasn't a day that went by that I didn't have to fix something that went wrong with those reservations taken by the people in India. Now that they have gone 24/7 in India, United is having REAL problems, only now they have to get fixed at the airports, which is why airport rage is so high. United's stock has plummeted. Their customer base has shrunk. In truth, they've lost more by sending our jobs to India than they gained. The CEO is just too stubborn to admit it. In fact, when people complained so much and instead of talking to the people in India, just kept dialing until they got an American, United responding by having ALL North American flight reservations handled in India. That caused them to lose even more customers.

Again labor is a VERY small percentage of the budget. Now, due to all their problems, instead of bringing back those jobs, they are charging for you to check ANY bags. Do you really think they are going to gain more customers with that decision?

When corporations figure out that their employees ARE a great part of the reason the corporation does well, maybe then things will get better. But I don't see that happening anytime soon. You do know "you get what you pay for" don't you?

 

[Ravi]

You suggested that you didn't believe there was a point when Americans did this work themselves. As stated, there was. I even provided you with evidence of how illegal aliens were used to break the strikes used to improve the conditions for farm workers. You ignored it.

Exactly how many unskilled illegal workers do you think America can integrate before we stop being America, Ravi? Have you ever looked at the numbers of immigrants we currently are trying to integrate versus the numbers we've historically integrated? Your thinking patterns make no sense, whatsoever.

For the most part, since we had slavery, non-citizens have done the majority of farm labor. A few exceptions to the rule do not change this fact.

As to how many illegal workers we can absorb, only the market can predict that. Don't know if you've noticed, but with the downturn in the economy reports are that many of them are leaving. I'd rather have a good economy and illegals than the alternative.

 

[sky dancer]

Yes,, if you are going to back a project or an idea you probably should work out at least the big details such as who is going to pay the bill for education and for hea;th care?? I'm waiting for your answer.


and then tell me if all other countries must participate in your grandiose scheme of open borders,, is there equality for all? including US citizens??

I'm not sure I back the idea yet. I am looking at it and reading about it. This is hardly the time or the environment in which to look at the OPen Border arguments thoughtfully.

Nonetheless, I plan to continue to read about it, and if people are interested, discuss the ideas with them.

 

[007]

They tried to bust a US citizen. Get it?

Oh big deal. Our legal system has sent innocent people to the electric chair too. Nothing is perfect. You deal with what you have to work with. So a hispanic, that was WITH the illegals got caught up in an ICE bust... well whoopty freagin' doo...

They caught the bad guys and the legal citizen was released. The raid was a success.