Open Minded Agnostic Atheist

[sealybobo]

my goal is to have as many good moments like these before I die. I don’t worry about an afterlife. I like to think people like me get in. And no religion has proven to me to be real so I don’t care what Jesus Moses Mohammad or Joseph Smith said

Precisely. Religion is not about the afterlife, and those Christian denominations that have their roots in Judaism remember this. Religion is about learning how to live this life in service to what is loving and good.

My first experience of Joseph Smith was when I was fourteen years old, a Catholic school kid who was completely unknowing of what a Mormon was or the Mormon faith. One day I say this book called the Book of Mormon on the public library table. Curious, I flipped through it, reading quite a few passages. I set it aside thinking, "That sounds like it was written by a 14-year-old boy!" Years later when a member of the LDS church was telling me about how her Church was founded, she seemed quite affronted when she told me Joseph Smith was 14 when he wrote the Book of Mormon. I couldn't help it. I burst out giggling, but she didn't get the joke.

As far as Moses, Jesus, and any other Biblical character for that matter: I don't believe every word written in the Bible had me in mind. On the other hand, there is also a great deal of good advice, very appropriate and very useful in my life. I do pay great attention to those.

As far as religion being a way they control the masses, take for example what Baptist’s taught to their slaves. The lord said to cope with your horrible lives. Cope. Not change. They told the slaves to just wait till they see the pearly gates in heaven. Baptist taught them dying was the only solution.

 

[sealybobo]

I am totally open to the idea that god is real I just don’t believe any religions are real. I like debating with theists who agree religions are man made up. I agree the universe and this planet are amazing. And it seems like it’s too perfect and there has to be some higher power. But we know so little still. Maybe there are other universes? Maybe there was is or will be life around every star eventually. Maybe not as advance as us but maybe more. And maybe the spirit lives on forever after you die. Just seems like wishful thinking to me. But I hope so. These are unknowable things.

So far I see no evidence of god and I don’t believe one exists. Everything can be explained scientifically. What can’t, may never be known. Those gaps aren’t god.

This is one of the best posts on religion I've ever seen!

The big questions: Who am I? Why an I here? How did I get here? Is there more to life than arguing politics at USMB?

I come to usmb because I enjoy it. I haven’t been on as much because I have a boat and it’s summertime. Plus sales are down because of corona so I don’t fuck around during the day like I did when things were good.

I truly love you guys even you conservatives. God bless you if he exists.

I grew up Roman Catholic, but I find I read Chabad almost daily. I appreciate their sense of community, brotherhood and love of fellow man.

Enjoy your journey Sealy, it's yours to discover

My girlfriend calls herself a Scientologist. When she came from Belarus her new mail order step dad sent her to some classes. She can’t explain the religion to me but whatever she learned in those classes she liked. Of course she’s not a real member like her rich step father. He’s like a level 5. Tom cruise is like a 12. She’s probably level 1

 

[Meriweather]

yes, if heaven exists us atheists go too. Tell me which Christian church agrees with that?

The Catholic Catechism for one. No, it does not say "Atheists or non-Christians go to heaven." It notes that Jesus commissioned the faithful to spread the Good News all over the earth. This does not mean where the Church or people failed in promoting belief, God is now helpless, He has no choice but to direct people to hell. We do what we can, and leave the rest in God's loving and merciful hands.

One of my favorite parables is that of the vineyard workers. Some went to the vineyard at the very beginning of the day. Some did not get there until day's end. Yet everyone received precisely the same reward. You might say that I got there early in the day, my grandfather perhaps not until day's end. My bonus is that I had an entire day in the vineyard! I'm betting my grandfather is fine with entering at day's close.

 

[Meriweather]

I don’t think you are a real Christian

Do tell me. What is a Christian? And what does a "real" Christian believe that I do not?

 

[Meriweather]

So you cherry pick.

Cherry pick what? Are you claiming that because I don't go out to slaughter all the Amalekites, I am clearly cherry picking Biblical directions? Do I need to become an owner of slaves as well?

 

[Meriweather]

As far as religion being a way they control the masses, take for example what Baptist’s taught to their slaves. The lord said to cope with your horrible lives. Cope. Not change. They told the slaves to just wait till they see the pearly gates in heaven. Baptist taught them dying was the only solution.

Is that teaching lasting throughout eternity or even all the days of mankind?

 

[Meriweather]

1. You just proved a point I make about how the Bible says everything. So much it even contradicts itself at times. I thought god was everywhere and in everything. Now you say there’s a verse that says gods only in the little things.

You missed the point, which is to seek God in small things.

 

[zaangalewa]

my goal is to have as many good moments like these before I die. I don’t worry about an afterlife. I like to think people like me get in. And no religion has proven to me to be real so I don’t care what Jesus Moses Mohammad or Joseph Smith said

Precisely. Religion is not about the afterlife, and those Christian denominations that have their roots in Judaism remember this. Religion is about learning how to live this life in service to what is loving and good.

My first experience of Joseph Smith was when I was fourteen years old, a Catholic school kid who was completely unknowing of what a Mormon was or the Mormon faith. One day I say this book called the Book of Mormon on the public library table. Curious, I flipped through it, reading quite a few passages. I set it aside thinking, "That sounds like it was written by a 14-year-old boy!" Years later when a member of the LDS church was telling me about how her Church was founded, she seemed quite affronted when she told me Joseph Smith was 14 when he wrote the Book of Mormon. I couldn't help it. I burst out giggling, but she didn't get the joke.

As far as Moses, Jesus, and any other Biblical character for that matter: I don't believe every word written in the Bible had me in mind. On the other hand, there is also a great deal of good advice, very appropriate and very useful in my life. I do pay great attention to those.

As far as religion being a way they control the masses, take for example what Baptist’s taught to their slaves. The lord said to cope with your horrible lives. Cope. Not change. They told the slaves to just wait till they see the pearly gates in heaven. Baptist taught them dying was the only solution.

Sorry - but this has nothing to do with the Christian religion. First of all slavery is not a theme of the Christian religion. The Christian religion was born in a world full of slaves. Example by thoughts: If a Christian slave holder has a Christian slave and the slave has a problem to do his job - what will happen? Exactly: the master will help his slave - what follows just simple because of the rules of love. That's perhaps the deeper reason, why slavery died out in Europe. The modern slavery has its roots in colonialism and is a totally new form of slavery. This form of slavery did never exist in Europe under Christians. So you have to think more about the political ideology of slave holders in the New World in this context. The Christian message is totally clear and has nothing to do with this, what you say what Baptistst had said here - what is nearly the exact opposite of this what baptism is:

-----
But now that faith has come, we are no longer under a guardian, for in Christ Jesus you are all sons of God, through faith. For as many of you as were baptized into Christ have put on Christ. There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither slave nor free, there is no male and female, for you are all one in Christ Jesus. And if you are Christ’s, then you are Abraham’s offspring, heirs according to promise.
-----

-----

 

[Meriweather]

2. I seeked god and didn’t find one.

I, too, sought God, and I did find Him.

 

[Meriweather]

3. I reached out to god to get a job once. Clearly I was a believer then. God had nothing to do with getting that job. In fact, that job sucked. Which led to another sucky job. Which led to this great job I have now.

i deny god exists. so he clearly has nothing to do with my current happiness and success. Why would he reward me?

And why would He punish you? God does not create the specific situations in which we may find ourselves. But whatever that situation is, He can be of help in working our way through, simply by helping us be the best we are in any given situation. Something you might say you can do without Him, so good for you.

 

[Meriweather]

I would tell those people god had nothing to do with their suffering just like god had nothing to do with my happiness.

im happy for the people who reach out to god and that makes them feel better. But if they reached out and suddenly things got better there is no connection. Do you watch Rick and Morty? They do an episode on this.

No, I haven't watched Rick and Morty. Nor have I ever credited God for the good things that have happened to me or blamed Him for the bad. My invariable reaction is, "Where do we go from here? What is the ideal way to proceed?"

 

[zaangalewa]

I am totally open to the idea that god is real I just don’t believe any religions are real. I like debating with theists who agree religions are man made up. I agree the universe and this planet are amazing. And it seems like it’s too perfect and there has to be some higher power. But we know so little still. Maybe there are other universes? Maybe there was is or will be life around every star eventually. Maybe not as advance as us but maybe more. And maybe the spirit lives on forever after you die. Just seems like wishful thinking to me. But I hope so. These are unknowable things.

So far I see no evidence of god and I don’t believe one exists. Everything can be explained scientifically. What can’t, may never be known. Those gaps aren’t god.

This is one of the best posts on religion I've ever seen!

The big questions: Who am I? Why an I here? How did I get here? Is there more to life than arguing politics at USMB?

I come to usmb because I enjoy it. I haven’t been on as much because I have a boat and it’s summertime. Plus sales are down because of corona so I don’t fuck around during the day like I did when things were good.

I truly love you guys even you conservatives. God bless you if he exists.

I grew up Roman Catholic, but I find I read Chabad almost daily. I appreciate their sense of community, brotherhood and love of fellow man.

Enjoy your journey Sealy, it's yours to discover

My girlfriend calls herself a Scientologist.

Scientology is nothing else than a criminal organisation. Scientology has absolutelly nothing to do with religion. Your girlfriend has a damned dangerous problem now.

When she came from Belarus her new mail order step dad sent her to some classes. She can’t explain the religion to me but whatever she learned in those classes she liked. Of course she’s not a real member like her rich step father. He’s like a level 5. Tom cruise is like a 12. She’s probably level 1

 

[BreezeWood]

Athiest.

The first thing I will ask god when I see him is which religion was right. I think his answer will be none of them.

In fact this is what god told Joseph Smith in 1800. Told him to start a new one. True story.

The first thing I will ask god when I see him (them) is which religion was right.

.
perhaps, the one prescribed during antiquity for admission to the Everlasting - the triumph of good vs evil - for those that might attempt the challenge. from the beginning.

 

[Fort Fun Indiana]

You can't be an agnostic atheist.

Sure you can. Atheism strictly means not accepting a belief in any gods. Agnostic atheism is also not knowing if gods exist or not (which is actually most atheists). Gnostic atheists "know" gods don't exist.

 

[Grumblenuts]

^Bingo.

Atheism is one thing: A lack of belief in gods.
Atheism is not an affirmative belief that there is no god nor does it answer any other question about what a person believes. It is simply a rejection of the assertion that there are gods. Atheism is too often defined incorrectly as a belief system. To be clear: Atheism is not a disbelief in gods or a denial of gods; it is a lack of belief in gods.

{*}
Atheism is not a belief system nor is it a religion.
While there are some religions that are atheistic (certain sects of Buddhism, for example), that does not mean that atheism is a religion. To put it in a more humorous way: If atheism is a religion, then not collecting stamps is a hobby.

* {Also important to seriously consider and bear in mind since many still don't get it.}

 

[Grumblenuts]

Gnostic - Belief that the God (or gods) we worship are in fact evil tricksters and that a secret knowledge is preventing us from the true God.

Taken as a proper noun that may or may not serve. As I read it, Gnosticism was an early form of Christianity. Entirely different in its normal adjective form though. It just means to know or claim affirmative knowledge of something as opposed to one making no such claims / being agnostic. One claiming to be an "agnostic atheist" is therefore just your run of the mill atheist.

How you defined the term "Atheist - There is no god" fits one claiming to be a "gnostic atheist." Beats me how one can make an affirmative knowledge claim while simultaneously claiming lack of belief in gods? Such self-proclaimed "gnostic atheists" are clearly confused and self-contradictory at best. But there apparently being no more suitable term available, I suppose "gnostic atheist" must continue to serve for the purpose.

"Agnostic - There may or may not be a god, but open to know more." - An agnostic is really just an atheist who's confused or too chicken to admit it. Everyone claims to be "open to know more." That's just feel good BS tacked on to distract from the falsely implied dichotomy. Just as there are those claiming to be "gnostic"- and "agnostic atheists," some claim to be "gnostic"- and "agnostic agnostics." Wait? Whaa?

Yep. There may be a god or gods. Don't claim to know. Lack any such knowledge. That's an atheist. That's also an agnostic. Dunno. Pretend I'm from Missouri and show me some scientific evidence.. then perhaps I'll know something other than myriad miraculous stories and theories that annoy my critical thinking skills no end.

 

[buttercup]

I am totally open to the idea that god is real I just don’t believe any religions are real. I like debating with theists who agree religions are man made up. I agree the universe and this planet are amazing. And it seems like it’s too perfect and there has to be some higher power. But we know so little still. Maybe there are other universes? Maybe there was is or will be life around every star eventually. Maybe not as advance as us but maybe more. And maybe the spirit lives on forever after you die. Just seems like wishful thinking to me. But I hope so. These are unknowable things.

So far I see no evidence of god and I don’t believe one exists. Everything can be explained scientifically. What can’t, may never be known. Those gaps aren’t god.

Good post, thanks for being honest. I'll share my 2 cents, if that's OK. I think one of the problems is that many people are led astray by false or empty religion, which, unfortunately, ends up keeping them away from God. There are also people who had a negative experience with false or empty religion, and they end up throwing out the baby with the bathwater, so to speak, by becoming atheists. That's basically what happened to me, I was a nonbeliever for many years, due to my experience with mere religion, as opposed to God. Years later, to my complete surprise, I became a born again believer (Christian) and that's a long story how it happened, but it had nothing to do with a church or even any person.

In the New Testament it's clear that Jesus had the highest criticism for those who were "religious" but didn't have God, people who were more focused on man-made traditions and false religious ideas.

So to sum that up: God/truth > religion.

But there is the other extreme, which I think should also be avoided, and that is to disbelieve ALL religion, in favor of a sort of vague belief in a higher power or impersonal "force." That reminds me of what C.S Lewis said about this topic. Here is an excerpt. (I added the bold.)

​

In a way I quite understand why some people are put off by Theology. I remember once when I had been giving a talk to the RA.F., an old, hardbitten officer got up and said, "I've no use for all that stuff. But, mind you, I'm a religious man too. I know there's a God. I've felt Him: out alone in the desert at night: the tremendous mystery. And that's just why I don't believe all your neat little dogmas and formulas about Him. To anyone who's met the real thing they all seem so petty and pedantic and unreal!"​

​

Now in a sense I quite agreed with that man. I think he had probably had a real experience of God in the desert. And when he turned from that experience to the Christian creeds, I think he really was turning from something real to something less real. In the same way, if a man has once looked at the Atlantic from the beach, and then goes and looks at a map of the Atlantic, he also will be turning from something real to something less real: turning from real waves to a bit of coloured paper. But here comes the point. The map is admittedly only coloured paper, but there are two things you have to remember about it. In the first place, it is based on what hundreds and thousands of people have found out by sailing the real Atlantic. In that way it has behind it masses of experience just as real as the one you could have from the beach; only, while yours would be a single isolated glimpse, the map fits all those different experiences together. In the second place, if you want to go anywhere, the map is absolutely necessary. As long as you are content with walks on the beach, your own glimpses are far more fun than looking at a map. But the map is going to be more use than walks on the beach if you want to get to America.​

​

Now, Theology is like the map. Merely learning and thinking about the Christian doctrines, if you stop there, is less real and less exciting than the sort of thing my friend got in the desert. Doctrines are not God: they are only a kind of map. But that map is based on the experience of hundreds of people who really were in touch with God— experiences compared with which any thrills or pious feelings you and I are likely to get on our own are very elementary and very confused. And secondly, if you want to get any further, you must use the map. You see, what happened to that man in the desert may have been real, and was certainly exciting, but nothing comes of it. It leads nowhere. There is nothing to do about it. In fact, that is just why a vague religion, all about feeling God in nature, and so on is so attractive. It is all thrills and no work; like watching the waves from the beach. But you will not get to Newfoundland by studying the Atlantic that way, and you will not get eternal life by simply feeling the presence of God in flowers or music. Neither will you get anywhere by looking at maps without going to sea. Nor will you be very safe if you go to sea without a map.​

There's more to be said, but I don't want this to be too long so I'll leave it at that for now.

 

[Grumblenuts]

But there is the other extreme, which I think should also be avoided, and that is to disbelieve ALL religion, in favor of a sort of vague belief in a higher power or impersonal "force."

Hi buttercup. Last I heard from my sister they were stuck in their Baja, Mx winter spot with dim prospects for much of anything coming or going such as fresh supplies . Things opening up there at all? No worries here far as extreme vague beliefs in higher powers or anything. In place of such concerns I've studied Nature's wheel works long and hard and have been enjoying a crystal clear picture of what makes the world go round, how we got here, where we all inevitably go, and so forth for quite a while. Decades now. At least. But, you know, to each their own. Love your sig poem.

 

[Blues Man]

You can't be an agnostic atheist.

Sure you can. Atheism strictly means not accepting a belief in any gods. Agnostic atheism is also not knowing if gods exist or not (which is actually most atheists). Gnostic atheists "know" gods don't exist.

Atheism is denying there are any gods

Agnosticism leaves the possibility of the existence of gods but will not state there are any gods without more proof or that there are gods but people can never really know them

If one admits to gods existing then says he is an atheist he is contradicting himself

 

[Grumblenuts]

Wrong again.