Our National Debt, spending addiction and deficit spending is problem 1

[AntonToo]

There is a current claim, repeated by the media, that our national debt is $28.08 TRILLION.
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At this point and noting the accelerating rate of deficit spending, the proportion of payment of just interest on the debt to “revenues” is unquestionably going to become much much larger. Like a person who can’t handle their own household budget, the government will “borrow” ever more just to pay interest. Of course, the government will probably in just “print” money but this makes each dollar increasingly less valuable. (And some will tell us that inflation isn’t a big deal.

Now consider, the $28 TRILLION DEBT figure is phony. It doesn’t include unfunded mandates like pensions. Anyone care to take a stab at THAT one?

You Think The Deficit Is Bad? Federal Unfunded Liabilities Exceed $127 Trillion

The federal unfunded liabilities are catastrophic for future taxpayers and economic growth.

www.forbes.com

I know that most liberals and progressives and economic authorities like AOC will dismiss this as pure right wing hysteria, but for reasonable people, I suggest that our addiction to spending and debt and deficit spending is the most urgent problem we face as a nation.

nope, I don't buy it for a second.

If you Republicans/Conservatives really belived it's problem#1 then you'd agree to put your tax-cutting and millitary spending dogmas aside and agree to compromise - a raise in taxes along with cutting spending. A Grand Bargain like that is the only way we are ever seriously getting budget under control.

 

[BackAgain]

Bullshit.

If you Republicans/Conservatives really belived it's problem#1 then you'd agree to put your tax-cutting dogmas aside and agree to compromise - a raise in taxes along with cutting spending. Because a Grand Bargain like that is the only way we are ever seriously getting budget under control.

Nonsense. You’re engaged in silly liberoidal fantasy speak.

We should have a flat tax across the board for individuals. It should be strictly linked to an annual balanced budget. Of course, we should have no corporate taxes at all. That’s not all:

In order make amends for our past irresponsible national fiscal behavior, we should make it a mandatory part of the annual balanced budget that the first item of the Budget should be paying the next fiscal year’s Interest on the national debt with the second item being a significant pay down on the outstanding principle portion of that national debt.

 

[AntonToo]

Nonsense. You’re engaged in silly liberoidal fantasy speak.

We should have a flat tax across the board for individuals. It should be strictly linked to an annual balanced budget. Of course, we should have no corporate taxes at all. That’s not all:

In order make amends for our past irresponsible national fiscal behavior, we should make it a mandatory part of the annual balanced budget that the first item of the Budget should be paying the next fiscal year’s Interest on the national debt with the second item being a significant pay down on the outstanding principle portion of that national debt.

And there you have it ladies and gentlemen.

A conservative's true priorities under the all the talk and pretense to fiscal sanity.

 

[SavannahMann]

No military is ever 100% ready, not even the Wehrmacht on the day it invaded France.

Ok. So are they ready enough to fight China? How about Russia?

 

[BackAgain]

And there you have it ladies and gentlemen.

A conservative's true priorities under the all the talk and pretense to fiscal sanity.

Way to articulate your well-reasoned thinking process on the matter.

Your mommy would be proud of you.

 

[AntonToo]

Way to articulate your well-reasoned thinking process on the matter.

Your mommy would be proud of you.

I articulated it just fine. Like most dime-a-dozen conservatives you are operating on tax-cut cult fantasies that are incompatible with actually getting something serious done on deficits in this country.

Want me to prove it? Ok, who in your idea of pay-down of national deficit/debt actually pays in more?

 

[BackAgain]

I articulated it just fine. Like most dime-a-dozen conservatives you are operating on tax-cut cult fantasies that are incompatible with actually getting something done on deficits in this country.

Want me to prove it? Ok, who in your idea of pay-down of national deficit/debt actually pays in more?

No you didn’t articulate it at all. And your feeble use of ad hominem doesn’t provide you with so much as a fig lead of cover.

Even your final sentence effort to set up what you imagine is a good old “gotchya” is a fail. The point is not to quibble with your vague notions of “who” pays more. The point is to get us the fuck out of our insane and insanely dangerous dependence on debts and deficits.

You and your fellow Luddite economic theorists simply refuse to acknowledge that this much national debt is dangerous and unsustainable. And our National dependence on the drug of “deficit spending” needs to be corrected. Some addictions are actually bad things.

 

[AntonToo]

No you didn’t articulate it at all. And your feeble use of ad hominem doesn’t provide you with so much as a fig lead of cover.

Even your final sentence effort to set up what you imagine is a good old “gotchya” is a fail. The point is not to quibble with your vague notions of “who” pays more. The point is to get us the fuck out of our insane and insanely dangerous dependence on debts and deficits.

You and your fellow Luddite economic theorists simply refuse to acknowledge that this much national debt is dangerous and unsustainable. And our National dependence on the drug of “deficit spending” needs to be corrected. Some addictions are actually bad things.

And so it is proven.

You can't answer that simple question. You won't compromise and agree to ANY rasing revenues to go along with spending cuts to get this fixed.

You say it's problem #1 to you, but your priorities on taxes say otherwise.

 

[ClaireH]

Currently, interest on the public debt accounts for about five percent of the federal budget, certainly not unmanageable. And the real interest rate is essentially negative. This is certainly not the time to suddenly start reeling in the deficit. If anything, this is the time to borrow on the cheap to make investments in the future that will expand the economy and thereby increase the tax base.

Interest on the National Debt and How It Affects You

The interest on the national debt is how much the federal government pays on the outstanding public debt. Learn how it's calculated and what it means for you.

www.thebalance.com

I understand that reducing the deficit currently is not feasible in the minds of most, but when will it be “timely” to do so? Will future economic prosperity occur when the time is ripe to knock it out? As a realist I would say no, but as an idealist I would say of course. When will a majority on the hill agree that “now” is the time with the never-ending governmental overspending?

I don’t see it ever happening in the future. Money conditions are going to get worse instead of better for many years. The US will likely go into hyper inflation due to Biden's bumblers ineptness. It will require 2 terms of a true conservative leader to recover from the current mess that could have been avoided.

So what will happen? Nothing. Our elected congressional reps on the hill will, yet again, kick the can down the road saying that, “Well, the national debt can be handled later, knowing the likelihood is slim, so it never is reduced. Kicking the can down the curb is a good example of history repeating itself, no matter how dumb.

 

[Dragonlady]

Must of? Did you happen to mean “must have” you illiterate tool? And though it is incomprehensible to a phony like you, I dislike big deficit spending from both Parties.

Then stop the Republicans from spending without taxing. W passed Medicare Part D without a tax to pay for it. Pass a law that says "all new programs must be paid for". Republicans don't " tax and spend", they "cut and spend". Even worse, they cut the taxes the Dems created to fund programs, and then blame the social spending for driving up the deficit.

UNFUNDED TAX CUTS ARE DRIVING UP THE DEFICIT.

You blame both parties for the deficit but only one party doesn't bother to pay for what they buy.

 

[BackAgain]

And so it is proven.

You can't answer that simple question. You won't compromise and agree to ANY rasing revenues to go along with spending cuts to get this fixed.

You say it's problem #1 to you, but your priorities on taxes say otherwise.

No. The time for compromise with the vampires is done. The proper resolution is simply not in seizing more of what we earn. The resolution is to create a budget sensibly, live within it and spend less.

I don’t expect you to get it. But all we get in return for “compromise” with you ghouls is ever more spending requiring ever more “revenue.” Wash. Rinse. Repeat.

it is absolutely time to break the cycle. No to any more taxes. Enough is enough. Also no to more spending we can’t pay for already within our means. Cut the damn credit card. Admit the proportion of our budget dedicated to debt and debt management is way too damn big. Pay down the debt.

And you know one thing I do foresee if we do this? Tough times ahead. The political squabbles over the smaller pie and smaller pieces of that smaller pie will make legislators do something they really really don’t like to do: make difficult actual decisions. Tough fuckin’ luck.

 

[Harpy Eagle]

it is absolutely time to break the cycle. No to any more taxes. Enough is enough. Also no to more spending we can’t pay for already within our means. Cut the damn credit card. Admit the proportion of our budget dedicated to debt and debt management is way too damn big. Pay down the debt.

Who was the last person you voted for that stood for any of these things?

 

[BackAgain]

Then stop the Republicans from spending without taxing. W passed Medicare Part D without a tax to pay for it. Pass a law that says "all new programs must be paid for". Republicans don't " tax and spend", they "cut and spend". Even worse, they cut the taxes the Dems created to fund programs, and then blame the social spending for driving up the deficit.

UNFUNDED TAX CUTS ARE DRIVING UP THE DEFICIT.

You blame both parties for the deficit but only one party doesn't bother to pay for what they buy.

Government doesn’t “pay for tax cuts.”

Government cuts taxes and has less to spend.

It is the SPENDING that drives the deficit. Stop spending so Fucking much. Live within a responsible budget. Why do all the liberals seem to imagine that they have some moral high ground to reach into our wallets?

 

[Winston]

I understand that reducing the deficit currently is not feasible in the minds of most, but when will it be “timely” to do so? Will future economic prosperity occur when the time is ripe to knock it out? As a realist I would say no, but as an idealist I would say of course. When will a majority on the hill agree that “now” is the time with the never-ending governmental overspending?

I don’t see it ever happening in the future. Money conditions are going to get worse instead of better for many years. The US will likely go into hyper inflation due to Biden's bumblers ineptness. It will require 2 terms of a true conservative leader to recover from the current mess that could have been avoided.

So what will happen? Nothing. Our elected congressional reps on the hill will, yet again, kick the can down the road saying that, “Well, the national debt can be handled later, knowing the likelihood is slim, so it never is reduced. Kicking the can down the curb is a good example of history repeating itself, no matter how dumb.

Here is the problem, and it has happened time and time again. I mean you can take it back to the 1950's, but lets keep it more contemporary. Clinton and Obama both kicked ass when it comes to stimulating the economy. Clinton actually ran a surplus for a while, and he retired all the 30 year Treasuries and replaced them with shorter term, and lower interest rate, bonds. I mean I don't know if you remember the Gore v. Bush election, but one of the critical issues was what the government was going to do with its budget surplus. Gore was going to do like Clinton, pay down that deficit. But Bush, well he was going to "give it back" to the American people. Those magic taxcuts, you know, the ones that don't cost anything because the taxcut fairy will show up and government income will increase. A damn fairy tale from hell when marginal tax rates are already low. I mean if they are north of 70%, like under Kennedy, then yeah, maybe so. But at rates less than 40%, no way in hell. And I would be happy to show how Reagan found that out within the first two years of his first term. Mostly because I worked for the OMB and was screaming it wasn't going to work from the getgo.

But that is the thing. If some miracle prevailed, Biden got all his legislation passed, we borrowed more money and INVESTED, I mean most Republicans are all about "investing", except when it comes to the government. But if we invested all that money, borrowed on the cheap, and expanded the frontier curve---basic Macroeconomics 101, it will result in increased revenue. But then some slick talking, bought and bossed Republican, Joe Manchin comes to mind, will stroll in and promise those magic fairy tale taxcuts and BAM, we will be right back where we started, IF WE ARE LUCKY. What history as shown is that we will seeing increasing deficits.

I mean it is so obvious for anyone with any real Economics training. But that is a lost art, destroyed by organizations like the Koch brothers, But then, that is another story. Everyone often bitches about Hitler, and yes, his social policies were an abomination. But his economic policies, they provided real dividends for the German people. To this very day, some of his public works projects still provide dividends to the German people. That is what we could do, if Republicans were not so bought and bossed by the corporations and the elite and would put this country first, above their own desire for continued power. But you don't have to turn to Hitler. You can look no further than Franklin Roosevelt and the CCC, to find public works projects that, even today, almost a century later, still provide increased economic efficiencies that have expanded that frontier curve. Like the Outer Banks of North Carolina.

 

[BackAgain]

Who was the last person you voted for that stood for any of these things?

Again with that line? You keep swinging and missing. I’m not interested in giving you a platform on which to deflect. The import of that faux question is inevitably more about the failure of our two main political Parties and some babbling bullshit about some 3d Party.

Go create a thread. This isn’t that thread.

 

[Winston]

Government doesn’t “pay for tax cuts.”

Government cuts taxes and has less to spend.

it’s the SPENDING that drives the deficit. Stop spending so ducking much. Live within a responsible budget. Why do all the liberals seem to imagine that they have some moral high ground to reach into our wallets?

Lets say you are working a job, and your regular salary pays you enough to pay your bills. But you could work overtime, and you could use those additional earnings to buy Cryptocurrency, or Telsa stock. But no, you say you don't want the overtime because it would just give you more money to spend. But you got a friend that does exactly that, works overtime and buys Tesla stock. He retires rich as hell, and you don't have a pot to piss in. That is pretty much what you are saying. You want the government to not have a pot to piss in.

 

[Harpy Eagle]

Again with that line? You keep swinging and missing. I’m not interested in giving you a platform on which to deflect. The import of that faux question is inevitably more about the failure of our two main political Parties and some babbling bullshit about some 3d Party.

Go create a thread. This isn’t that thread.

So again, the biggest problem we are facing and you choose to do nothing but talk about it on an internet political forum. You will not even base your own vote off of the biggest problem we face.

Kind of makes you sound like a fraud

 

[BackAgain]

Lets say you are working a job, and your regular salary pays you enough to pay your bills. But you could work overtime, and you could use those additional earnings to buy Cryptocurrency, or Telsa stock. But no, you say you don't want the overtime because it would just give you more money to spend. But you got a friend that does exactly that, works overtime and buys Tesla stock. He retires rich as hell, and you don't have a pot to piss in. That is pretty much what you are saying. You want the government to not have a pot to piss in.

A dramatic but faux analysis.

It is true that if I want more money I could work some overtime. But the government doesn’t produce anything. When the government wants to spend more, it must seize more of OUR income.

Nobody opposed to more taxation is suggesting that they shouldn’t be left with a pot to piss in. Your “argument” is trite and completely unconvincing hyperbole.

 

[bripat9643]

Ok. So are they ready enough to fight China? How about Russia?

What part of "no military is ever 100% ready" didn't you understand?

 

[bripat9643]

nope, I don't buy it for a second.

If you Republicans/Conservatives really belived it's problem#1 then you'd agree to put your tax-cutting and millitary spending dogmas aside and agree to compromise - a raise in taxes along with cutting spending. A Grand Bargain like that is the only way we are ever seriously getting budget under control.

Raising taxes is absolutely off the table. For every dollar we increase taxes, Dims always spend 4 more. Republican's have been compromising the last 80 years. Where did that get us? $30 trillion in debt.

It's time for Dims to walk the plank and cut something,.