Our National Debt, spending addiction and deficit spending is problem 1

[otto105]

Dims are the ones who put most of the spending in the appropriations bills, douchebag. Then the Dim House and Dim Senate approved it.

Did the former president not have congress from 2017-19?

 

[Lesh]

When do Dims care about it?

Democrats aren't the ones whining about it hypocrite

 

[Harpy Eagle]

It's "your definition," not "our definition," you fucking scumbag.

That is not what your post said.

 

[Harpy Eagle]

They spend about 10% of what Dims spend.

So is it 20 times more or 10%, make up your mind.

 

[SavannahMann]

This is something that the Left and Right agree on, to an extent. The problem is in the fixes proposed by the two sides.

The Left wants to cut Military spending as much as possible, increase taxes, to reduce the difference between income and spending for the Government.

The Right wants to gut social programs, reduce taxes, and increase spending on the Military and Border security.

Both sides are wrong, and both are right.

Rush Limbaugh when he was still with us, and the Conservatives always argue that the answer to Gasoline prices is greater supply. We need to drill, and drill everywhere, to get more oil, to satisfy the need for cheap fuels for vehicles. Increase the supply they scream until they are red in the face.

When we talk about Budget Deficits however, the Right doesn’t even want to consider increasing the supply of money. Then suddenly it is about conservation, a solution that is scoffed at when used for gasoline.

Either we need to start cutting programs, both Defense and Intelligence, as well as social, or we need to get more money flowing into the coffers.

Want to get rich? Invent a Stealth Porta Potty. One that is invisible on radar. The Defense Department will buy a million of the things.

Everything is stealth now. And it is silly as shit. Right now the Air Force is drooling and spending money on the next generation fighter. Nothing could beat the F-15 but that was old. It wasn’t stealth. So we got the F-22, but it was so expensive we couldn’t afford many. So we got the F-35 which was cheaper, but still so expensive that the Air Force retired hundreds of planes to afford another fifty F-35’s.

The US Air Force is trimming its fighter force. Here are the 4 jets it wants to fight future wars.

US Air Force officials say the service's current seven fighter airframes are too expensive to maintain, and the plan to trim the force down to four.

www.businessinsider.com

Now that sounds fine, but planes are not the whole answer. The whole answer includes time in the air for the pilots to practice. And they’re not getting nearly enough of those hours.

Pilots are flying 17 hours per month, but it’s still not enough, Air Force secretary says

Air Force Secretary Heather Wilson on Thursday refuted reports that the service’s pilots are only flying nine or 10 hours per month.

www.airforcetimes.com

Between ten and seventeen hours per month for most Air Force Pilots. That means the guy driving the commuter plane flying over your house sometime today, is getting more hours in two days than these guys are getting a month, and he flys a hell of a lot more than two days a month. Hell many private pilots are getting more hours than our Air Line of defense.

So money is being wasted buying new planes, if our pilots are so inexperienced that they can’t fly the damned things for all they are worth.

Navy Ships sit at the dock most of the time, and that means that training suffers, the sailors don’t get experience, and the officers spend more time doing brain teaser training than actually commanding the ship.

The result is a fire that destroyed an entire ship in San Diego, the Chain of Command didn’t train, or practice, so the sailors were unsure what to do when a fire broke out.

Ships that collide because the systems are not standardized between ships. And there is no hard and fast policy on what is the acceptable standard. Just if you bump someone else, you have failed to maintain standards.

Our military is rapidly becoming a joke. Untrained people, who aren’t getting the field time they need to become competent, and maintain such competence, is being reduced because of budget constraints. We have state of the art equipment we can’t use because we can’t afford to fix it. All while the generals are in Washington explaining why we need the newer more expensive programs approved for our defense.

It not only cost money to procure the equipment for a military. You have to spend the money to train them, and keep training them. Otherwise you have an inspection ready unit that will fail combat. Money for ammunition for the simple riflemen. Money to take them into the field and have them practice battle maneuver.

Social programs? To eliminate fraud, we spend more money on oversight to insure nobody steals. We create jobs to have people who’s only job is the say no when someone asks mother may I? The program drowns in red tape, and those who are in imminent danger, who have an immediate need, are delayed to the point of any help being too late to do any good.

We are spending twenty dollars to prevent five dollars worth of theft. I’m not saying let the theft go, but lets be reasonable on how we deal with it.

Both are right, and both are wrong, and the problem will never be solved. Because in the modern era we have devolved into petulant children. So the nation is doomed, and it’s our fault. Not theirs, but ours.

 

[bripat9643]

This is something that the Left and Right agree on, to an extent. The problem is in the fixes proposed by the two sides.

The Left wants to cut Military spending as much as possible, increase taxes, to reduce the difference between income and spending for the Government.

The Right wants to gut social programs, reduce taxes, and increase spending on the Military and Border security.

Both sides are wrong, and both are right.

Rush Limbaugh when he was still with us, and the Conservatives always argue that the answer to Gasoline prices is greater supply. We need to drill, and drill everywhere, to get more oil, to satisfy the need for cheap fuels for vehicles. Increase the supply they scream until they are red in the face.

When we talk about Budget Deficits however, the Right doesn’t even want to consider increasing the supply of money. Then suddenly it is about conservation, a solution that is scoffed at when used for gasoline.

Either we need to start cutting programs, both Defense and Intelligence, as well as social, or we need to get more money flowing into the coffers.

Want to get rich? Invent a Stealth Porta Potty. One that is invisible on radar. The Defense Department will buy a million of the things.

Everything is stealth now. And it is silly as shit. Right now the Air Force is drooling and spending money on the next generation fighter. Nothing could beat the F-15 but that was old. It wasn’t stealth. So we got the F-22, but it was so expensive we couldn’t afford many. So we got the F-35 which was cheaper, but still so expensive that the Air Force retired hundreds of planes to afford another fifty F-35’s.

The US Air Force is trimming its fighter force. Here are the 4 jets it wants to fight future wars.

US Air Force officials say the service's current seven fighter airframes are too expensive to maintain, and the plan to trim the force down to four.

www.businessinsider.com

Now that sounds fine, but planes are not the whole answer. The whole answer includes time in the air for the pilots to practice. And they’re not getting nearly enough of those hours.

Pilots are flying 17 hours per month, but it’s still not enough, Air Force secretary says

Air Force Secretary Heather Wilson on Thursday refuted reports that the service’s pilots are only flying nine or 10 hours per month.

www.airforcetimes.com

Between ten and seventeen hours per month for most Air Force Pilots. That means the guy driving the commuter plane flying over your house sometime today, is getting more hours in two days than these guys are getting a month, and he flys a hell of a lot more than two days a month. Hell many private pilots are getting more hours than our Air Line of defense.

So money is being wasted buying new planes, if our pilots are so inexperienced that they can’t fly the damned things for all they are worth.

Navy Ships sit at the dock most of the time, and that means that training suffers, the sailors don’t get experience, and the officers spend more time doing brain teaser training than actually commanding the ship.

The result is a fire that destroyed an entire ship in San Diego, the Chain of Command didn’t train, or practice, so the sailors were unsure what to do when a fire broke out.

Ships that collide because the systems are not standardized between ships. And there is no hard and fast policy on what is the acceptable standard. Just if you bump someone else, you have failed to maintain standards.

Our military is rapidly becoming a joke. Untrained people, who aren’t getting the field time they need to become competent, and maintain such competence, is being reduced because of budget constraints. We have state of the art equipment we can’t use because we can’t afford to fix it. All while the generals are in Washington explaining why we need the newer more expensive programs approved for our defense.

It not only cost money to procure the equipment for a military. You have to spend the money to train them, and keep training them. Otherwise you have an inspection ready unit that will fail combat. Money for ammunition for the simple riflemen. Money to take them into the field and have them practice battle maneuver.

Social programs? To eliminate fraud, we spend more money on oversight to insure nobody steals. We create jobs to have people who’s only job is the say no when someone asks mother may I? The program drowns in red tape, and those who are in imminent danger, who have an immediate need, are delayed to the point of any help being too late to do any good.

We are spending twenty dollars to prevent five dollars worth of theft. I’m not saying let the theft go, but lets be reasonable on how we deal with it.

Both are right, and both are wrong, and the problem will never be solved. Because in the modern era we have devolved into petulant children. So the nation is doomed, and it’s our fault. Not theirs, but ours.

Are you actually proposing that our military not buy new arms and equipment?

The rest of your post is meaningless babble.

 

[Flash]

Big bloated out of control welfare state interventionist high taxation debt ridden government has always been this nation's greatest problem.

However, nobody gives a shit.

 

[SavannahMann]

Are you actually proposing that our military not buy new arms and equipment?

The rest of your post is meaningless babble.

What good is a super plane if nobody knows how to fly it? What good is a super rifle if we can’t afford to shoot it?

The navy came up with an amazing gun. A super gun. Only it cost $800,000 to shoot.

The USS Zumwalt Can't Fire Its Guns Because the Ammo Is Too Expensive

At $800,000 a round, the ammunition is simply too expensive for the Navy to afford.

www.popularmechanics.com

It was so expensive nobody could afford to pull the trigger.

That is what happens when you recklessly chase the newest latest greatest toy. You end up with an amazing piece of technology you can’t afford to use or replace.

We can’t replace any lost F-22. The Air Force is already talking about retiring the first Generation F-35’s. Too expensive to run.

So what do we do? Keep buying toys we can’t afford? Or increase the deficit even more so we can afford $800k a shot for a super gun.

When you read up on Torpedoes of World War II and the problems we had let me know.

 

[bripat9643]

What good is a super plane if nobody knows how to fly it?

What plan is that?

What good is a super rifle if we can’t afford to shoot it?

What is the name of this super rifle that we can't afford?

The navy came up with an amazing gun. A super gun. Only it cost $800,000 to shoot.

The USS Zumwalt Can't Fire Its Guns Because the Ammo Is Too Expensive

At $800,000 a round, the ammunition is simply too expensive for the Navy to afford.

www.popularmechanics.com

It was so expensive nobody could afford to pull the trigger.

Your own article says the navy is not buying that round and is opting for a cheaper round instead that only costs $1600

Try actually reading the articles you cite.

That is what happens when you recklessly chase the newest latest greatest toy. You end up with an amazing piece of technology you can’t afford to use or replace.

Looking like an imbecile is what happens when you don't read the articles you cite.

We can’t replace any lost F-22. The Air Force is already talking about retiring the first Generation F-35’s. Too expensive to run.

The Airforce typically produces a new First Line fighter every 20 years. Do you really want them to by taking on China with 40 year-old fighters?

So what do we do? Keep buying toys we can’t afford? Or increase the deficit even more so we can afford $800k a shot for a super gun.

When you read up on Torpedoes of World War II and the problems we had let me know.

We are not spending more than we can afford. That's anti-military bullshit. Do you really want to never buy a replacement for our current equipment? You haven't mentioned any solution for the problems you mention, which are all bullshit

 

[SavannahMann]

What plan is that?


What is the name of this super rifle that we can't afford?



Your own article says the navy is not buying that round and is opting for a cheaper round instead that only costs $1600

Try actually reading the articles you cite.



Looking like an imbecile is what happens when you don't read the articles you cite.


The Airforce typically produces a new First Line fighter every 20 years. Do you really want them to by taking on China with 40 year-old fighters?



We are not spending more than we can afford. That's anti-military bullshit. Do you really want to never buy a replacement for our current equipment? You haven't mentioned any solution for the problems you mention, which are all bullshit

The Air Force admits they aren’t ready to fight an advanced enemy like Russia. In the article I first posted. About the Air Force getting a handful of hours a month for their pilots, on average, which means those deployed are getting more, and those at home are getting even less to get an average that is so low.

She (Secretary of the Air Force Heather Wilson) noted that even when air crews go abroad and fly combat missions, such as those against violent extremists such as the Islamic State, they’re not practicing skills that would be required for a high-end fight against an advanced adversary such as Russia.

So with what we are spending now, we’re not able to fight China or Russia. So buying more toys we’re able to use even less doesn’t make any sense.

Let me put it this way. A man is determined to kill you. What scares you more? A guy who practices shooting three times a week with an old Bolt Action Hunting style rifle chambered for the old 30.06 round. Or a guy who spent thirty thousand dollars on a rifle chambered for .338 Lapua and has fired it exactly twice since he got it and hasn’t been shooting in three years?

Personally the guy with the hunting rifle would worry me more. He knows that rifle, and he is far more familiar with shooting. He’s already spun up, and ready to go. If the guy with the incredibly expensive rifle comes after you, either he’s going to be unprepared, or he’s going to take time to train up.

The Military is the same way. I watched a propaganda documentary about the C-5 Galaxy. They were following a plane to Afghanistan. They started filming during the preparations. The first thing they had to do was take the plane up and practice a mid air refueling. None of the pilots had done one in over a year.

So what they are saying is that if an emergency had occurred, the pilots flying the C-5 could not fly straight there, even with mid air refueling capability, because nobody had practiced it. How much practice do you think the pilots driving the F-22’s are getting?

But hey, lets talk about fighting Russia or China. You mentioned China, so let’s go with that.

Air Force Wants to Cut 421 Old Fighters, Buy 304 New Ones | Air & Space Forces Magazine

The Air Force will ask Congress to retire 421 legacy aircraft through 2026, replacing them with just 304 new fighters, according to talking points obtained by Air & Space Forces Magazine.

www.airforcemag.com

China isn’t retiring the older planes. China is adding planes. We aren’t. The Air Force wants to get rid of 431 planes to be able to field 305 planes. Now, even if you are home schooled you should realize that 305 is less than 431.

But we’re fighting China. So let’s talk about it. We know our Pilots aren’t ready for that war. The Secretary of the Air Force said so. The awesome Stealth crap is already screwed to hell. So let’s start with that.

Will China's "Meter Wave Radar" Put An End To The U.S. Air Force's Stealth Dominance?

While the physics of the Chinese claims seem plausible, it is important to remember that the effectiveness of a military sensor depends on a variety of factors.

nationalinterest.org

Our side says sure, that the meter Radar can detect Stealth Aircraft, but it can’t be used to guide weapons, and it isn’t distinct. In other words, you know there is a flight of aircraft to the south, and about how far away, but that’s all.

That’s all? Really? So the enemy could flood the air with tons of aircraft and attack our Stealth fighters, which we don’t have very many to begin with, and even if we shoot down four, which I doubt, for every one we lose, we lose because we can’t afford to lose the plane. We don’t have the capability to replace the F-22’s do we? When they shut the line down they destroyed the tools to make more. So what we have, is literally all we have, or can get.

So now we’re on to the F-35’s. With us selling them to everyone, including having Turkey involved in the development is there any doubt that Russia has a detailed set of Blueprints now? If they have it, do you think that China doesn’t?

Remember Turkey was kicked out of the F-35 program before delivery of the first aircraft because they were buying Air Defense Equipment from Russia, and the fear was they would give the F-35’s to Russia.

Turkey Wants Compensation for Ouster from US-Led F-35 Jet Program

Turkish President Recep Tayyip Erdogan said he hoped to meet U.S. President Joe Biden at the G-20 meeting in Rome to discuss the F-35 project.

www.military.com

And don’t pretend that Turkey did not have full knowledge of the program, because they were part of the parts procurement program and their removal from the program is blamed on the engines costing even more.

Turkey’s removal from F-35 program to cause hike in engine price

By the end of the year, Turkey will no longer supply parts for the F-35's engine.

www.defensenews.com

So all the tech specs of the F-35 are in Beijing right now. Hell they have been for a couple years at the least if we’re being honest.

Sure we got more planes, but how many of them are combat aircraft? And then what? We invade China? They have more people than we have bullets.

And that war will go nuclear. It isn’t a guess, or an insane theory. The Navy will sink the Ballistic Missile Submarines, and that will mean the Nukes become a use them or lose them equation. Any guesses what our policy is about that? If you allow an enemy to remove your Nuclear weapons, you have lost, because they can strike you without any retaliation.

It is why we track and target submarines like the Ballistic Missile subs. So we can sink them if a war starts. It is why Russia tries to track ours, and why we target their known missile locations with ours. They targeted ours long ago as well.

Those Kansas Farms with Minuteman missiles underneath the soil are priority one targets for the Russians in case of a surprise attack. As are the bases for the bombers.

China is not dumb, so they also have the understanding that the Nukes are use them or lose them. And they’re not going to lose them quietly.

Ah hell. I’m wasting my time. You’re a fool of the propaganda type.

 

[Toro]

As if "conservatives" give a flying fuck about government spending and the deficit.

LOL

 

[bripat9643]

The Air Force admits they aren’t ready to fight an advanced enemy like Russia. In the article I first posted. About the Air Force getting a handful of hours a month for their pilots, on average, which means those deployed are getting more, and those at home are getting even less to get an average that is so low.

She (Secretary of the Air Force Heather Wilson) noted that even when air crews go abroad and fly combat missions, such as those against violent extremists such as the Islamic State, they’re not practicing skills that would be required for a high-end fight against an advanced adversary such as Russia.

So with what we are spending now, we’re not able to fight China or Russia. So buying more toys we’re able to use even less doesn’t make any sense.

Let me put it this way. A man is determined to kill you. What scares you more? A guy who practices shooting three times a week with an old Bolt Action Hunting style rifle chambered for the old 30.06 round. Or a guy who spent thirty thousand dollars on a rifle chambered for .338 Lapua and has fired it exactly twice since he got it and hasn’t been shooting in three years?

Personally the guy with the hunting rifle would worry me more. He knows that rifle, and he is far more familiar with shooting. He’s already spun up, and ready to go. If the guy with the incredibly expensive rifle comes after you, either he’s going to be unprepared, or he’s going to take time to train up.

The Military is the same way. I watched a propaganda documentary about the C-5 Galaxy. They were following a plane to Afghanistan. They started filming during the preparations. The first thing they had to do was take the plane up and practice a mid air refueling. None of the pilots had done one in over a year.

So what they are saying is that if an emergency had occurred, the pilots flying the C-5 could not fly straight there, even with mid air refueling capability, because nobody had practiced it. How much practice do you think the pilots driving the F-22’s are getting?

But hey, lets talk about fighting Russia or China. You mentioned China, so let’s go with that.

Air Force Wants to Cut 421 Old Fighters, Buy 304 New Ones | Air & Space Forces Magazine

The Air Force will ask Congress to retire 421 legacy aircraft through 2026, replacing them with just 304 new fighters, according to talking points obtained by Air & Space Forces Magazine.

www.airforcemag.com

China isn’t retiring the older planes. China is adding planes. We aren’t. The Air Force wants to get rid of 431 planes to be able to field 305 planes. Now, even if you are home schooled you should realize that 305 is less than 431.

But we’re fighting China. So let’s talk about it. We know our Pilots aren’t ready for that war. The Secretary of the Air Force said so. The awesome Stealth crap is already screwed to hell. So let’s start with that.

Will China's "Meter Wave Radar" Put An End To The U.S. Air Force's Stealth Dominance?

While the physics of the Chinese claims seem plausible, it is important to remember that the effectiveness of a military sensor depends on a variety of factors.

nationalinterest.org

Our side says sure, that the meter Radar can detect Stealth Aircraft, but it can’t be used to guide weapons, and it isn’t distinct. In other words, you know there is a flight of aircraft to the south, and about how far away, but that’s all.

That’s all? Really? So the enemy could flood the air with tons of aircraft and attack our Stealth fighters, which we don’t have very many to begin with, and even if we shoot down four, which I doubt, for every one we lose, we lose because we can’t afford to lose the plane. We don’t have the capability to replace the F-22’s do we? When they shut the line down they destroyed the tools to make more. So what we have, is literally all we have, or can get.

So now we’re on to the F-35’s. With us selling them to everyone, including having Turkey involved in the development is there any doubt that Russia has a detailed set of Blueprints now? If they have it, do you think that China doesn’t?

Remember Turkey was kicked out of the F-35 program before delivery of the first aircraft because they were buying Air Defense Equipment from Russia, and the fear was they would give the F-35’s to Russia.

Turkey Wants Compensation for Ouster from US-Led F-35 Jet Program

Turkish President Recep Tayyip Erdogan said he hoped to meet U.S. President Joe Biden at the G-20 meeting in Rome to discuss the F-35 project.

www.military.com

And don’t pretend that Turkey did not have full knowledge of the program, because they were part of the parts procurement program and their removal from the program is blamed on the engines costing even more.

Turkey’s removal from F-35 program to cause hike in engine price

By the end of the year, Turkey will no longer supply parts for the F-35's engine.

www.defensenews.com

So all the tech specs of the F-35 are in Beijing right now. Hell they have been for a couple years at the least if we’re being honest.

Sure we got more planes, but how many of them are combat aircraft? And then what? We invade China? They have more people than we have bullets.

And that war will go nuclear. It isn’t a guess, or an insane theory. The Navy will sink the Ballistic Missile Submarines, and that will mean the Nukes become a use them or lose them equation. Any guesses what our policy is about that? If you allow an enemy to remove your Nuclear weapons, you have lost, because they can strike you without any retaliation.

It is why we track and target submarines like the Ballistic Missile subs. So we can sink them if a war starts. It is why Russia tries to track ours, and why we target their known missile locations with ours. They targeted ours long ago as well.

Those Kansas Farms with Minuteman missiles underneath the soil are priority one targets for the Russians in case of a surprise attack. As are the bases for the bombers.

China is not dumb, so they also have the understanding that the Nukes are use them or lose them. And they’re not going to lose them quietly.

Ah hell. I’m wasting my time. You’re a fool of the propaganda type.

What a load of horseshit.

What's a "fool of the propaganda type?"

 

[SavannahMann]

What a load of horseshit.

What's a "fool of the propaganda type?"

You don’t address a single issue and scream We’re Number One!

 

[bripat9643]

You don’t address a single issue and scream We’re Number One!

I just correctly point out that you are full of shit.

 

[SavannahMann]

I just correctly point out that you are full of shit.

So you think Pilots can maintain maximum readiness for combat while not flying planes?

 

[bripat9643]

So you think Pilots can maintain maximum readiness for combat while not flying planes?

They are flying planes, dolt.

 

[SavannahMann]

They are flying planes, dolt.

They are flying between 9 and 17 hours a month. Those dropping bombs are flying more.

Are you saying a pilot who flies 9 hours a month is trained and prepared for war?

 

[bripat9643]

They are flying between 9 and 17 hours a month. Those dropping bombs are flying more.

Are you saying a pilot who flies 9 hours a month is trained and prepared for war?

They fly 17 hours a month, turd..

Pilots are flying 17 hours per month, but it’s still not enough, Air Force secretary says

 

[SavannahMann]

They fly 17 hours a month, turd..

Pilots are flying 17 hours per month, but it’s still not enough, Air Force secretary says

And the Air Force says they are not ready.

 

[bripat9643]

And the Air Force says they are not ready.

No military is ever 100% ready, not even the Wehrmacht on the day it invaded France.