Outrage Grows After Undocumented Father Arrested in Front of Daughter Near School

[Eloy]

Let's see, nobody on the left seemed concerned when Obama authorized the execution, by drone strike, of an American citizen in front of his son. Oh yeah, his son didn't get a chance to sob, he was also torn to bits as was a friend. Illegals who commit crimes or have been convicted of committing crimes in the U.S. will be deported. Get used to it.

You are changing the subject. Not an uncommon thing on USMessageBoard, it must be admitted.

The main part of this story was the little girl crying. His (her) comment is right in line with the discussion.

You are mistaken. This thread is about federal police kidnapping an American girl's father for deportation when they had him in custody decades ago not President Obama.

 

[Eloy]

Romulo Avelica-Gonzalez was dropping off his daughters at school in Los Angeles on Tuesday when he was arrested by U.S. Immigration and Customs Enforcement. His 13-year-old daughter, Fatima, sobbed as she recorded her father being handcuffed in front of her and her mother.

Avelica-Gonzalez, 48, who has been living in the United States for over 20 years, had just finished dropping off his 12-year-old daughter in the Highland Park neighborhood when he was detained. His 19-year-old daughter, Jocelyn, who was at work during the incident, told the LAist that a car had been following her father since the moment he left the house.

“My dad dropped off my first sister and then when he turned around, they turned on their light,” Jocelyn said. “My dad was really scared. He didn’t want to pull over, but he did. As soon as he did, one car went in front of his truck and one in back of his truck. They took him out and they arrested him.”

In the video, Fatima can be heard loudly weeping as her father is detained by men wearing jackets and vests marked “POLICE.” (Los Angeles officials have asked ICE agents to stop identifying themselves as such.) Her mother asks one of the officers in Spanish how to proceed before turning to her daughter and telling her: “Don’t cry, honey. Don’t cry. We have to be strong.”

Avelica-Gonzalez, the father of four U.S. citizens, was detained over a DUI conviction nearly 10 years ago and a two decade-old incident involving an incorrect registration sticker, according to a local ABC affiliate.

Harrowing Video Captures Teen Sobbing As ICE Arrests Her Dad On The Way To School | The Huffington Post
-------------

Welcome to Trump's America, ripping families apart to create fear.

I can relate to both sides to this.
I once was given the orders to go fire a teacher who had stolen confidential information / property to use
to take clients from a school for a competing tutoring business.
Clearly this was a violation of school property and grounds for dismissal.

but the way I went about it, I confronted and removed the teacher
in front of very upset students. The parents and students and teacher
were crying to each other over the phone afterwards, because no advance
warning was given and it was very traumatizing. We could have called in the parents with the
teacher and let them know what was happening right after telling
the teacher in private, and reduce the shock and upset.

So there are ways to take action civilly and orderly
where it doesn't have to traumatize the children affected.

Police coming to get parents who have violated parole
or probation often run into these confrontations that
make the kids "hate the police," so it causes severe damage
unless people plan ahead and set up better procedures.

The added benefitsd: by setting up agreed processes to begin with
not only are the community members made knowledgeable of laws and policing,
but the real problem people will get screened out if they have no
intention of complying ad cooperating with authorities. So the police
will already know which people are able to be law abiding
and which ones are truly criminally abusive, so they don't confuse the two.

So there are ways to take action civilly and orderly
where it doesn't have to traumatize the children affected.

His kids knew he was an illegal immigrant

They were willingly aiding and abetting a fugitive

A crime doesn't stop being a crime because
you consider it to be stupid or unfair.

They were all aware of the risk of getting caught
but, why worry bout it, the laws aren't enforced

He didn't worry about being removed from the country
or his family, when he foolishly decided...yeah,
being an illegal and driving drunk is a smart thing to do.

I think it was a good thing, the way it went down
It's important for children to realize...choices have consequences
Not agreeing with our laws doesn't make them above the law!

School of Hard Knocks-101

I didn't say or imply ANY of that keepitreal

I am saying to avoid escalating the confrontations by having a procedure set up in advance, where all residents agree to follow the laws and process.

I am saying to obey the laws and teach/train all community members to comply.

Sorry this wasn't clear. it is possible to be compassionate for both the citizens and govt/law enforcement AND uphold and enforce laws to deter and correct any breaches. It's not like one has to compromise the other.

Good govt is like good parenting.
You don't wait until you catch the kids breaking rules to suddenly ditch all kinds of scary punishment to deter them. The proper way is to teach, mentor and model the standard that you want to see enforced.

If we SKIP that step and don't teach people the laws and set up means for people to follow lawful process, can we wonder why people get thrown in jail with charges BEFORE they ever read what their rights are?

When we run classrooms, the teacher has all the students write out and ESTABLISH the rules of the classroom from DAY ONE.

We don't teach people the process of laws and enforcement processes, and don't require them to go through training, pass tests and sign agreements to follow the laws. We do this for drivers to get licenses. Why not do this for people to have rights and privileges of citizenship? Don't you think teaching people the laws and the responsibilities for compliance in advance might work to reduce problems? And that's why teachers do this in schools, and that's why we test and license drivers before letting them drive on the roads?

Why not do the same with law enforcement?

Teaching undocumented residents the laws will not change their status.
There is an inherent lack of justice in deporting ordinary law-abiding residents especially after living for decades as a law-abiding person and going on to marry and becoming a parent.
The federal government should understand this.
When Donald Trump said he wanted undocumented persons (normally Mexicans and others from Central America) deported, even he specified he meant career criminals (those guilty of murder, armed robbery, rapists, etc.) but over-zealous uniformed Immigration and Naturalization personnel are sweeping quite ordinary people into the net. The people were told by the president that it would be mean hombres who were to be targeted but something else, something inherently in-American, something ugly is happening instead.

There is nothing "ugly" about removing people that don't belong here. These are not "ordinary law biding citizens" these are people who illegally came to this country or illegally overstayed their Visa.

I don't know of any law or part of our immigration system that says if you sneak in, stay out of trouble for a few decades, all is well with us. If there is such a law, please post it with a link. Until that time, if you are not supposed to be here, you can and will get kicked out no matter how much trouble you do or don't cause.

Your inability or refusal to empathize with the child and her father is why you see no ugliness in this event.
By all accounts, the father was an ordinary law-abiding person. A DUI conviction being used to portray him as a criminal is unreasonable when there are murderers, armed robbers, and rapists on the loose.

Judges do take into consideration a previous record before passing judgement. It would be cruel to do otherwise. This is not a law but it is common jurisprudence. Judges do not look at people in an absolutist way but take into consideration mitigating circumstances, for example if an offender has been staying on the right side of the law for decades and has been responsible with a life in the United States, married and raising a family. Treating a good father-of-four the same as a career criminal is unjust.
Mitigating Circumstances in Sentencing
The father has done no harm and has a clean record for two decades. A judge will sentence accordingly.

 

[Dschrute3]

I'm gonna wait till the whole story comes out. Because clearly the purpose of this report was to illicit a knee-jerk reaction. The knee-jerk reaction is to blame the Immigration Officials.

But as with most stories, there's two sides. For instance, was this man wanted for any other crimes? I'm willing to wait for the whole thing to play out. If he isn't wanted for any other crimes, it's possible something reasonable can be worked out.

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

I can relate to both sides to this.
I once was given the orders to go fire a teacher who had stolen confidential information / property to use
to take clients from a school for a competing tutoring business.
Clearly this was a violation of school property and grounds for dismissal.

but the way I went about it, I confronted and removed the teacher
in front of very upset students. The parents and students and teacher
were crying to each other over the phone afterwards, because no advance
warning was given and it was very traumatizing. We could have called in the parents with the
teacher and let them know what was happening right after telling
the teacher in private, and reduce the shock and upset.

So there are ways to take action civilly and orderly
where it doesn't have to traumatize the children affected.

Police coming to get parents who have violated parole
or probation often run into these confrontations that
make the kids "hate the police," so it causes severe damage
unless people plan ahead and set up better procedures.

The added benefitsd: by setting up agreed processes to begin with
not only are the community members made knowledgeable of laws and policing,
but the real problem people will get screened out if they have no
intention of complying ad cooperating with authorities. So the police
will already know which people are able to be law abiding
and which ones are truly criminally abusive, so they don't confuse the two.

So there are ways to take action civilly and orderly
where it doesn't have to traumatize the children affected.

His kids knew he was an illegal immigrant

They were willingly aiding and abetting a fugitive

A crime doesn't stop being a crime because
you consider it to be stupid or unfair.

They were all aware of the risk of getting caught
but, why worry bout it, the laws aren't enforced

He didn't worry about being removed from the country
or his family, when he foolishly decided...yeah,
being an illegal and driving drunk is a smart thing to do.

I think it was a good thing, the way it went down
It's important for children to realize...choices have consequences
Not agreeing with our laws doesn't make them above the law!

School of Hard Knocks-101

I didn't say or imply ANY of that keepitreal

I am saying to avoid escalating the confrontations by having a procedure set up in advance, where all residents agree to follow the laws and process.

I am saying to obey the laws and teach/train all community members to comply.

Sorry this wasn't clear. it is possible to be compassionate for both the citizens and govt/law enforcement AND uphold and enforce laws to deter and correct any breaches. It's not like one has to compromise the other.

Good govt is like good parenting.
You don't wait until you catch the kids breaking rules to suddenly ditch all kinds of scary punishment to deter them. The proper way is to teach, mentor and model the standard that you want to see enforced.

If we SKIP that step and don't teach people the laws and set up means for people to follow lawful process, can we wonder why people get thrown in jail with charges BEFORE they ever read what their rights are?

When we run classrooms, the teacher has all the students write out and ESTABLISH the rules of the classroom from DAY ONE.

We don't teach people the process of laws and enforcement processes, and don't require them to go through training, pass tests and sign agreements to follow the laws. We do this for drivers to get licenses. Why not do this for people to have rights and privileges of citizenship? Don't you think teaching people the laws and the responsibilities for compliance in advance might work to reduce problems? And that's why teachers do this in schools, and that's why we test and license drivers before letting them drive on the roads?

Why not do the same with law enforcement?

Teaching undocumented residents the laws will not change their status.
There is an inherent lack of justice in deporting ordinary law-abiding residents especially after living for decades as a law-abiding person and going on to marry and becoming a parent.
The federal government should understand this.
When Donald Trump said he wanted undocumented persons (normally Mexicans and others from Central America) deported, even he specified he meant career criminals (those guilty of murder, armed robbery, rapists, etc.) but over-zealous uniformed Immigration and Naturalization personnel are sweeping quite ordinary people into the net. The people were told by the president that it would be mean hombres who were to be targeted but something else, something inherently in-American, something ugly is happening instead.

There is nothing "ugly" about removing people that don't belong here. These are not "ordinary law biding citizens" these are people who illegally came to this country or illegally overstayed their Visa.

I don't know of any law or part of our immigration system that says if you sneak in, stay out of trouble for a few decades, all is well with us. If there is such a law, please post it with a link. Until that time, if you are not supposed to be here, you can and will get kicked out no matter how much trouble you do or don't cause.

Your inability or refusal to empathize with the child and her father is why you see no ugliness in this event.
By all accounts, the father was an ordinary law-abiding person. A DUI conviction being used to portray him as a criminal is unreasonable when there are murderers, armed robbers, and rapists on the loose.

Judges do take into consideration a previous record before passing judgement. It would be cruel to do otherwise. This is not a law but it is common jurisprudence. Judges do not look at people in an absolutist way but take into consideration mitigating circumstances, for example if an offender has been staying on the right side of the law for decades and has been responsible with a life in the United States, married and raising a family. Treating a good father-of-four the same as a career criminal is unjust.
Mitigating Circumstances in Sentencing
The father has done no harm and has a clean record for two decades. A judge will sentence accordingly.

By all accounts, the father was an ordinary law-abiding person

Except the DUI... And the stolen car... And coming here illegally ( and probably using a stolen ID and SS number)...And ignoring his initial deportation order.
I'll miss him when he goes back to Mexico. He sounded like a swell guy.

 

[tycho1572]

Romulo Avelica-Gonzalez was dropping off his daughters at school in Los Angeles on Tuesday when he was arrested by U.S. Immigration and Customs Enforcement. His 13-year-old daughter, Fatima, sobbed as she recorded her father being handcuffed in front of her and her mother.

Avelica-Gonzalez, 48, who has been living in the United States for over 20 years, had just finished dropping off his 12-year-old daughter in the Highland Park neighborhood when he was detained. His 19-year-old daughter, Jocelyn, who was at work during the incident, told the LAist that a car had been following her father since the moment he left the house.

“My dad dropped off my first sister and then when he turned around, they turned on their light,” Jocelyn said. “My dad was really scared. He didn’t want to pull over, but he did. As soon as he did, one car went in front of his truck and one in back of his truck. They took him out and they arrested him.”

In the video, Fatima can be heard loudly weeping as her father is detained by men wearing jackets and vests marked “POLICE.” (Los Angeles officials have asked ICE agents to stop identifying themselves as such.) Her mother asks one of the officers in Spanish how to proceed before turning to her daughter and telling her: “Don’t cry, honey. Don’t cry. We have to be strong.”

Avelica-Gonzalez, the father of four U.S. citizens, was detained over a DUI conviction nearly 10 years ago and a two decade-old incident involving an incorrect registration sticker, according to a local ABC affiliate.

Harrowing Video Captures Teen Sobbing As ICE Arrests Her Dad On The Way To School | The Huffington Post
-------------

Welcome to Trump's America, ripping families apart to create fear.

Can I assume you don't like having a president who believes laws apply to everyone?

 

[Dschrute3]

His kids knew he was an illegal immigrant

They were willingly aiding and abetting a fugitive

A crime doesn't stop being a crime because
you consider it to be stupid or unfair.

They were all aware of the risk of getting caught
but, why worry bout it, the laws aren't enforced

He didn't worry about being removed from the country
or his family, when he foolishly decided...yeah,
being an illegal and driving drunk is a smart thing to do.

I think it was a good thing, the way it went down
It's important for children to realize...choices have consequences
Not agreeing with our laws doesn't make them above the law!

School of Hard Knocks-101

I didn't say or imply ANY of that keepitreal

I am saying to avoid escalating the confrontations by having a procedure set up in advance, where all residents agree to follow the laws and process.

I am saying to obey the laws and teach/train all community members to comply.

Sorry this wasn't clear. it is possible to be compassionate for both the citizens and govt/law enforcement AND uphold and enforce laws to deter and correct any breaches. It's not like one has to compromise the other.

Good govt is like good parenting.
You don't wait until you catch the kids breaking rules to suddenly ditch all kinds of scary punishment to deter them. The proper way is to teach, mentor and model the standard that you want to see enforced.

If we SKIP that step and don't teach people the laws and set up means for people to follow lawful process, can we wonder why people get thrown in jail with charges BEFORE they ever read what their rights are?

When we run classrooms, the teacher has all the students write out and ESTABLISH the rules of the classroom from DAY ONE.

We don't teach people the process of laws and enforcement processes, and don't require them to go through training, pass tests and sign agreements to follow the laws. We do this for drivers to get licenses. Why not do this for people to have rights and privileges of citizenship? Don't you think teaching people the laws and the responsibilities for compliance in advance might work to reduce problems? And that's why teachers do this in schools, and that's why we test and license drivers before letting them drive on the roads?

Why not do the same with law enforcement?

Teaching undocumented residents the laws will not change their status.
There is an inherent lack of justice in deporting ordinary law-abiding residents especially after living for decades as a law-abiding person and going on to marry and becoming a parent.
The federal government should understand this.
When Donald Trump said he wanted undocumented persons (normally Mexicans and others from Central America) deported, even he specified he meant career criminals (those guilty of murder, armed robbery, rapists, etc.) but over-zealous uniformed Immigration and Naturalization personnel are sweeping quite ordinary people into the net. The people were told by the president that it would be mean hombres who were to be targeted but something else, something inherently in-American, something ugly is happening instead.

There is nothing "ugly" about removing people that don't belong here. These are not "ordinary law biding citizens" these are people who illegally came to this country or illegally overstayed their Visa.

I don't know of any law or part of our immigration system that says if you sneak in, stay out of trouble for a few decades, all is well with us. If there is such a law, please post it with a link. Until that time, if you are not supposed to be here, you can and will get kicked out no matter how much trouble you do or don't cause.

Your inability or refusal to empathize with the child and her father is why you see no ugliness in this event.
By all accounts, the father was an ordinary law-abiding person. A DUI conviction being used to portray him as a criminal is unreasonable when there are murderers, armed robbers, and rapists on the loose.

Judges do take into consideration a previous record before passing judgement. It would be cruel to do otherwise. This is not a law but it is common jurisprudence. Judges do not look at people in an absolutist way but take into consideration mitigating circumstances, for example if an offender has been staying on the right side of the law for decades and has been responsible with a life in the United States, married and raising a family. Treating a good father-of-four the same as a career criminal is unjust.
Mitigating Circumstances in Sentencing
The father has done no harm and has a clean record for two decades. A judge will sentence accordingly.

By all accounts, the father was an ordinary law-abiding person

Except the DUI... And the stolen car... And coming here illegally ( and probably using a stolen ID and SS number)...And ignoring his initial deportation order.
I'll miss him when he goes back to Mexico. He sounded like a swell guy.

That's why i wait till the whole story comes out. The report was designed to illicit a knee-jerk response against Immigration Officials. More 'Fake News.' He may have been wanted for other crimes. If not, i'm a fair-minded person. Something reasonable could be worked out.

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

I didn't say or imply ANY of that keepitreal

I am saying to avoid escalating the confrontations by having a procedure set up in advance, where all residents agree to follow the laws and process.

I am saying to obey the laws and teach/train all community members to comply.

Sorry this wasn't clear. it is possible to be compassionate for both the citizens and govt/law enforcement AND uphold and enforce laws to deter and correct any breaches. It's not like one has to compromise the other.

Good govt is like good parenting.
You don't wait until you catch the kids breaking rules to suddenly ditch all kinds of scary punishment to deter them. The proper way is to teach, mentor and model the standard that you want to see enforced.

If we SKIP that step and don't teach people the laws and set up means for people to follow lawful process, can we wonder why people get thrown in jail with charges BEFORE they ever read what their rights are?

When we run classrooms, the teacher has all the students write out and ESTABLISH the rules of the classroom from DAY ONE.

We don't teach people the process of laws and enforcement processes, and don't require them to go through training, pass tests and sign agreements to follow the laws. We do this for drivers to get licenses. Why not do this for people to have rights and privileges of citizenship? Don't you think teaching people the laws and the responsibilities for compliance in advance might work to reduce problems? And that's why teachers do this in schools, and that's why we test and license drivers before letting them drive on the roads?

Why not do the same with law enforcement?

Teaching undocumented residents the laws will not change their status.
There is an inherent lack of justice in deporting ordinary law-abiding residents especially after living for decades as a law-abiding person and going on to marry and becoming a parent.
The federal government should understand this.
When Donald Trump said he wanted undocumented persons (normally Mexicans and others from Central America) deported, even he specified he meant career criminals (those guilty of murder, armed robbery, rapists, etc.) but over-zealous uniformed Immigration and Naturalization personnel are sweeping quite ordinary people into the net. The people were told by the president that it would be mean hombres who were to be targeted but something else, something inherently in-American, something ugly is happening instead.

There is nothing "ugly" about removing people that don't belong here. These are not "ordinary law biding citizens" these are people who illegally came to this country or illegally overstayed their Visa.

I don't know of any law or part of our immigration system that says if you sneak in, stay out of trouble for a few decades, all is well with us. If there is such a law, please post it with a link. Until that time, if you are not supposed to be here, you can and will get kicked out no matter how much trouble you do or don't cause.

Your inability or refusal to empathize with the child and her father is why you see no ugliness in this event.
By all accounts, the father was an ordinary law-abiding person. A DUI conviction being used to portray him as a criminal is unreasonable when there are murderers, armed robbers, and rapists on the loose.

Judges do take into consideration a previous record before passing judgement. It would be cruel to do otherwise. This is not a law but it is common jurisprudence. Judges do not look at people in an absolutist way but take into consideration mitigating circumstances, for example if an offender has been staying on the right side of the law for decades and has been responsible with a life in the United States, married and raising a family. Treating a good father-of-four the same as a career criminal is unjust.
Mitigating Circumstances in Sentencing
The father has done no harm and has a clean record for two decades. A judge will sentence accordingly.

By all accounts, the father was an ordinary law-abiding person

Except the DUI... And the stolen car... And coming here illegally ( and probably using a stolen ID and SS number)...And ignoring his initial deportation order.
I'll miss him when he goes back to Mexico. He sounded like a swell guy.

That's why i wait till the whole story comes out. The report was designed to illicit a knee-jerk response against Immigration Officials. More 'Fake News.' He may have been wanted for other crimes. If not, i'm a fair-minded person. Something reasonable could be worked out.

Sure.....jail time here or go back to Mexico.....Maybe some of each?

 

[Eloy]

His kids knew he was an illegal immigrant

They were willingly aiding and abetting a fugitive

A crime doesn't stop being a crime because
you consider it to be stupid or unfair.

They were all aware of the risk of getting caught
but, why worry bout it, the laws aren't enforced

He didn't worry about being removed from the country
or his family, when he foolishly decided...yeah,
being an illegal and driving drunk is a smart thing to do.

I think it was a good thing, the way it went down
It's important for children to realize...choices have consequences
Not agreeing with our laws doesn't make them above the law!

School of Hard Knocks-101

I didn't say or imply ANY of that keepitreal

I am saying to avoid escalating the confrontations by having a procedure set up in advance, where all residents agree to follow the laws and process.

I am saying to obey the laws and teach/train all community members to comply.

Sorry this wasn't clear. it is possible to be compassionate for both the citizens and govt/law enforcement AND uphold and enforce laws to deter and correct any breaches. It's not like one has to compromise the other.

Good govt is like good parenting.
You don't wait until you catch the kids breaking rules to suddenly ditch all kinds of scary punishment to deter them. The proper way is to teach, mentor and model the standard that you want to see enforced.

If we SKIP that step and don't teach people the laws and set up means for people to follow lawful process, can we wonder why people get thrown in jail with charges BEFORE they ever read what their rights are?

When we run classrooms, the teacher has all the students write out and ESTABLISH the rules of the classroom from DAY ONE.

We don't teach people the process of laws and enforcement processes, and don't require them to go through training, pass tests and sign agreements to follow the laws. We do this for drivers to get licenses. Why not do this for people to have rights and privileges of citizenship? Don't you think teaching people the laws and the responsibilities for compliance in advance might work to reduce problems? And that's why teachers do this in schools, and that's why we test and license drivers before letting them drive on the roads?

Why not do the same with law enforcement?

Teaching undocumented residents the laws will not change their status.
There is an inherent lack of justice in deporting ordinary law-abiding residents especially after living for decades as a law-abiding person and going on to marry and becoming a parent.
The federal government should understand this.
When Donald Trump said he wanted undocumented persons (normally Mexicans and others from Central America) deported, even he specified he meant career criminals (those guilty of murder, armed robbery, rapists, etc.) but over-zealous uniformed Immigration and Naturalization personnel are sweeping quite ordinary people into the net. The people were told by the president that it would be mean hombres who were to be targeted but something else, something inherently in-American, something ugly is happening instead.

There is nothing "ugly" about removing people that don't belong here. These are not "ordinary law biding citizens" these are people who illegally came to this country or illegally overstayed their Visa.

I don't know of any law or part of our immigration system that says if you sneak in, stay out of trouble for a few decades, all is well with us. If there is such a law, please post it with a link. Until that time, if you are not supposed to be here, you can and will get kicked out no matter how much trouble you do or don't cause.

Your inability or refusal to empathize with the child and her father is why you see no ugliness in this event.
By all accounts, the father was an ordinary law-abiding person. A DUI conviction being used to portray him as a criminal is unreasonable when there are murderers, armed robbers, and rapists on the loose.

Judges do take into consideration a previous record before passing judgement. It would be cruel to do otherwise. This is not a law but it is common jurisprudence. Judges do not look at people in an absolutist way but take into consideration mitigating circumstances, for example if an offender has been staying on the right side of the law for decades and has been responsible with a life in the United States, married and raising a family. Treating a good father-of-four the same as a career criminal is unjust.
Mitigating Circumstances in Sentencing
The father has done no harm and has a clean record for two decades. A judge will sentence accordingly.

By all accounts, the father was an ordinary law-abiding person

Except the DUI... And the stolen car... And coming here illegally ( and probably using a stolen ID and SS number)...And ignoring his initial deportation order.
I'll miss him when he goes back to Mexico. He sounded like a swell guy.

The DUI and a car not properly registered two decades before is far from murder, armed robbery or rape.

 

[Bush92]

Romulo Avelica-Gonzalez was dropping off his daughters at school in Los Angeles on Tuesday when he was arrested by U.S. Immigration and Customs Enforcement. His 13-year-old daughter, Fatima, sobbed as she recorded her father being handcuffed in front of her and her mother.

Avelica-Gonzalez, 48, who has been living in the United States for over 20 years, had just finished dropping off his 12-year-old daughter in the Highland Park neighborhood when he was detained. His 19-year-old daughter, Jocelyn, who was at work during the incident, told the LAist that a car had been following her father since the moment he left the house.

“My dad dropped off my first sister and then when he turned around, they turned on their light,” Jocelyn said. “My dad was really scared. He didn’t want to pull over, but he did. As soon as he did, one car went in front of his truck and one in back of his truck. They took him out and they arrested him.”

In the video, Fatima can be heard loudly weeping as her father is detained by men wearing jackets and vests marked “POLICE.” (Los Angeles officials have asked ICE agents to stop identifying themselves as such.) Her mother asks one of the officers in Spanish how to proceed before turning to her daughter and telling her: “Don’t cry, honey. Don’t cry. We have to be strong.”

Avelica-Gonzalez, the father of four U.S. citizens, was detained over a DUI conviction nearly 10 years ago and a two decade-old incident involving an incorrect registration sticker, according to a local ABC affiliate.

Harrowing Video Captures Teen Sobbing As ICE Arrests Her Dad On The Way To School | The Huffington Post
-------------

Welcome to Trump's America, ripping families apart to create fear.

What growing is the number of illegals heading out of this country.

 

[Eloy]

I didn't say or imply ANY of that keepitreal

I am saying to avoid escalating the confrontations by having a procedure set up in advance, where all residents agree to follow the laws and process.

I am saying to obey the laws and teach/train all community members to comply.

Sorry this wasn't clear. it is possible to be compassionate for both the citizens and govt/law enforcement AND uphold and enforce laws to deter and correct any breaches. It's not like one has to compromise the other.

Good govt is like good parenting.
You don't wait until you catch the kids breaking rules to suddenly ditch all kinds of scary punishment to deter them. The proper way is to teach, mentor and model the standard that you want to see enforced.

If we SKIP that step and don't teach people the laws and set up means for people to follow lawful process, can we wonder why people get thrown in jail with charges BEFORE they ever read what their rights are?

When we run classrooms, the teacher has all the students write out and ESTABLISH the rules of the classroom from DAY ONE.

We don't teach people the process of laws and enforcement processes, and don't require them to go through training, pass tests and sign agreements to follow the laws. We do this for drivers to get licenses. Why not do this for people to have rights and privileges of citizenship? Don't you think teaching people the laws and the responsibilities for compliance in advance might work to reduce problems? And that's why teachers do this in schools, and that's why we test and license drivers before letting them drive on the roads?

Why not do the same with law enforcement?

Teaching undocumented residents the laws will not change their status.
There is an inherent lack of justice in deporting ordinary law-abiding residents especially after living for decades as a law-abiding person and going on to marry and becoming a parent.
The federal government should understand this.
When Donald Trump said he wanted undocumented persons (normally Mexicans and others from Central America) deported, even he specified he meant career criminals (those guilty of murder, armed robbery, rapists, etc.) but over-zealous uniformed Immigration and Naturalization personnel are sweeping quite ordinary people into the net. The people were told by the president that it would be mean hombres who were to be targeted but something else, something inherently in-American, something ugly is happening instead.

There is nothing "ugly" about removing people that don't belong here. These are not "ordinary law biding citizens" these are people who illegally came to this country or illegally overstayed their Visa.

I don't know of any law or part of our immigration system that says if you sneak in, stay out of trouble for a few decades, all is well with us. If there is such a law, please post it with a link. Until that time, if you are not supposed to be here, you can and will get kicked out no matter how much trouble you do or don't cause.

Your inability or refusal to empathize with the child and her father is why you see no ugliness in this event.
By all accounts, the father was an ordinary law-abiding person. A DUI conviction being used to portray him as a criminal is unreasonable when there are murderers, armed robbers, and rapists on the loose.

Judges do take into consideration a previous record before passing judgement. It would be cruel to do otherwise. This is not a law but it is common jurisprudence. Judges do not look at people in an absolutist way but take into consideration mitigating circumstances, for example if an offender has been staying on the right side of the law for decades and has been responsible with a life in the United States, married and raising a family. Treating a good father-of-four the same as a career criminal is unjust.
Mitigating Circumstances in Sentencing
The father has done no harm and has a clean record for two decades. A judge will sentence accordingly.

By all accounts, the father was an ordinary law-abiding person

Except the DUI... And the stolen car... And coming here illegally ( and probably using a stolen ID and SS number)...And ignoring his initial deportation order.
I'll miss him when he goes back to Mexico. He sounded like a swell guy.

That's why i wait till the whole story comes out. The report was designed to illicit a knee-jerk response against Immigration Officials. More 'Fake News.' He may have been wanted for other crimes. If not, i'm a fair-minded person. Something reasonable could be worked out.

We have the whole story. There are cruel and heartless people who back-up the police every time, contrary to your belief.

 

[tycho1572]

I didn't say or imply ANY of that keepitreal

I am saying to avoid escalating the confrontations by having a procedure set up in advance, where all residents agree to follow the laws and process.

I am saying to obey the laws and teach/train all community members to comply.

Sorry this wasn't clear. it is possible to be compassionate for both the citizens and govt/law enforcement AND uphold and enforce laws to deter and correct any breaches. It's not like one has to compromise the other.

Good govt is like good parenting.
You don't wait until you catch the kids breaking rules to suddenly ditch all kinds of scary punishment to deter them. The proper way is to teach, mentor and model the standard that you want to see enforced.

If we SKIP that step and don't teach people the laws and set up means for people to follow lawful process, can we wonder why people get thrown in jail with charges BEFORE they ever read what their rights are?

When we run classrooms, the teacher has all the students write out and ESTABLISH the rules of the classroom from DAY ONE.

We don't teach people the process of laws and enforcement processes, and don't require them to go through training, pass tests and sign agreements to follow the laws. We do this for drivers to get licenses. Why not do this for people to have rights and privileges of citizenship? Don't you think teaching people the laws and the responsibilities for compliance in advance might work to reduce problems? And that's why teachers do this in schools, and that's why we test and license drivers before letting them drive on the roads?

Why not do the same with law enforcement?

Teaching undocumented residents the laws will not change their status.
There is an inherent lack of justice in deporting ordinary law-abiding residents especially after living for decades as a law-abiding person and going on to marry and becoming a parent.
The federal government should understand this.
When Donald Trump said he wanted undocumented persons (normally Mexicans and others from Central America) deported, even he specified he meant career criminals (those guilty of murder, armed robbery, rapists, etc.) but over-zealous uniformed Immigration and Naturalization personnel are sweeping quite ordinary people into the net. The people were told by the president that it would be mean hombres who were to be targeted but something else, something inherently in-American, something ugly is happening instead.

There is nothing "ugly" about removing people that don't belong here. These are not "ordinary law biding citizens" these are people who illegally came to this country or illegally overstayed their Visa.

I don't know of any law or part of our immigration system that says if you sneak in, stay out of trouble for a few decades, all is well with us. If there is such a law, please post it with a link. Until that time, if you are not supposed to be here, you can and will get kicked out no matter how much trouble you do or don't cause.

Your inability or refusal to empathize with the child and her father is why you see no ugliness in this event.
By all accounts, the father was an ordinary law-abiding person. A DUI conviction being used to portray him as a criminal is unreasonable when there are murderers, armed robbers, and rapists on the loose.

Judges do take into consideration a previous record before passing judgement. It would be cruel to do otherwise. This is not a law but it is common jurisprudence. Judges do not look at people in an absolutist way but take into consideration mitigating circumstances, for example if an offender has been staying on the right side of the law for decades and has been responsible with a life in the United States, married and raising a family. Treating a good father-of-four the same as a career criminal is unjust.
Mitigating Circumstances in Sentencing
The father has done no harm and has a clean record for two decades. A judge will sentence accordingly.

By all accounts, the father was an ordinary law-abiding person

Except the DUI... And the stolen car... And coming here illegally ( and probably using a stolen ID and SS number)...And ignoring his initial deportation order.
I'll miss him when he goes back to Mexico. He sounded like a swell guy.

The DUI and a car not properly registered two decades before is far from murder, armed robbery or rape.

You forgot to mention being here illegally.

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

I didn't say or imply ANY of that keepitreal

I am saying to avoid escalating the confrontations by having a procedure set up in advance, where all residents agree to follow the laws and process.

I am saying to obey the laws and teach/train all community members to comply.

Sorry this wasn't clear. it is possible to be compassionate for both the citizens and govt/law enforcement AND uphold and enforce laws to deter and correct any breaches. It's not like one has to compromise the other.

Good govt is like good parenting.
You don't wait until you catch the kids breaking rules to suddenly ditch all kinds of scary punishment to deter them. The proper way is to teach, mentor and model the standard that you want to see enforced.

If we SKIP that step and don't teach people the laws and set up means for people to follow lawful process, can we wonder why people get thrown in jail with charges BEFORE they ever read what their rights are?

When we run classrooms, the teacher has all the students write out and ESTABLISH the rules of the classroom from DAY ONE.

We don't teach people the process of laws and enforcement processes, and don't require them to go through training, pass tests and sign agreements to follow the laws. We do this for drivers to get licenses. Why not do this for people to have rights and privileges of citizenship? Don't you think teaching people the laws and the responsibilities for compliance in advance might work to reduce problems? And that's why teachers do this in schools, and that's why we test and license drivers before letting them drive on the roads?

Why not do the same with law enforcement?

Teaching undocumented residents the laws will not change their status.
There is an inherent lack of justice in deporting ordinary law-abiding residents especially after living for decades as a law-abiding person and going on to marry and becoming a parent.
The federal government should understand this.
When Donald Trump said he wanted undocumented persons (normally Mexicans and others from Central America) deported, even he specified he meant career criminals (those guilty of murder, armed robbery, rapists, etc.) but over-zealous uniformed Immigration and Naturalization personnel are sweeping quite ordinary people into the net. The people were told by the president that it would be mean hombres who were to be targeted but something else, something inherently in-American, something ugly is happening instead.

There is nothing "ugly" about removing people that don't belong here. These are not "ordinary law biding citizens" these are people who illegally came to this country or illegally overstayed their Visa.

I don't know of any law or part of our immigration system that says if you sneak in, stay out of trouble for a few decades, all is well with us. If there is such a law, please post it with a link. Until that time, if you are not supposed to be here, you can and will get kicked out no matter how much trouble you do or don't cause.

Your inability or refusal to empathize with the child and her father is why you see no ugliness in this event.
By all accounts, the father was an ordinary law-abiding person. A DUI conviction being used to portray him as a criminal is unreasonable when there are murderers, armed robbers, and rapists on the loose.

Judges do take into consideration a previous record before passing judgement. It would be cruel to do otherwise. This is not a law but it is common jurisprudence. Judges do not look at people in an absolutist way but take into consideration mitigating circumstances, for example if an offender has been staying on the right side of the law for decades and has been responsible with a life in the United States, married and raising a family. Treating a good father-of-four the same as a career criminal is unjust.
Mitigating Circumstances in Sentencing
The father has done no harm and has a clean record for two decades. A judge will sentence accordingly.

By all accounts, the father was an ordinary law-abiding person

Except the DUI... And the stolen car... And coming here illegally ( and probably using a stolen ID and SS number)...And ignoring his initial deportation order.
I'll miss him when he goes back to Mexico. He sounded like a swell guy.

The DUI and a car not properly registered two decades before is far from murder, armed robbery or rape.

The DUI and a car not properly registered two decades

Yeah, the DUI and stolen car was a while ago.

far from murder, armed robbery or rape.

Yes it is. And still plenty to deport him for.

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

Teaching undocumented residents the laws will not change their status.
There is an inherent lack of justice in deporting ordinary law-abiding residents especially after living for decades as a law-abiding person and going on to marry and becoming a parent.
The federal government should understand this.
When Donald Trump said he wanted undocumented persons (normally Mexicans and others from Central America) deported, even he specified he meant career criminals (those guilty of murder, armed robbery, rapists, etc.) but over-zealous uniformed Immigration and Naturalization personnel are sweeping quite ordinary people into the net. The people were told by the president that it would be mean hombres who were to be targeted but something else, something inherently in-American, something ugly is happening instead.

There is nothing "ugly" about removing people that don't belong here. These are not "ordinary law biding citizens" these are people who illegally came to this country or illegally overstayed their Visa.

I don't know of any law or part of our immigration system that says if you sneak in, stay out of trouble for a few decades, all is well with us. If there is such a law, please post it with a link. Until that time, if you are not supposed to be here, you can and will get kicked out no matter how much trouble you do or don't cause.

Your inability or refusal to empathize with the child and her father is why you see no ugliness in this event.
By all accounts, the father was an ordinary law-abiding person. A DUI conviction being used to portray him as a criminal is unreasonable when there are murderers, armed robbers, and rapists on the loose.

Judges do take into consideration a previous record before passing judgement. It would be cruel to do otherwise. This is not a law but it is common jurisprudence. Judges do not look at people in an absolutist way but take into consideration mitigating circumstances, for example if an offender has been staying on the right side of the law for decades and has been responsible with a life in the United States, married and raising a family. Treating a good father-of-four the same as a career criminal is unjust.
Mitigating Circumstances in Sentencing
The father has done no harm and has a clean record for two decades. A judge will sentence accordingly.

By all accounts, the father was an ordinary law-abiding person

Except the DUI... And the stolen car... And coming here illegally ( and probably using a stolen ID and SS number)...And ignoring his initial deportation order.
I'll miss him when he goes back to Mexico. He sounded like a swell guy.

That's why i wait till the whole story comes out. The report was designed to illicit a knee-jerk response against Immigration Officials. More 'Fake News.' He may have been wanted for other crimes. If not, i'm a fair-minded person. Something reasonable could be worked out.

We have the whole story. There are cruel and heartless people who back-up the police every time, contrary to your belief.

We have the whole story.

Then why the kidnapping lie?

 

[rhodescholar]

And I even posted the LETTER for you, with important parts bolded.

Asshole mongoloid, does it say ANYWHERE in that letter that the ICE agents are not legally allowed to identify themselves as police? Did the letter cite ANY STATUE, anywhere that makes it a criminal act for ICE agents to do so?

No it did not fucktard, it simply REQUESTED they stop doing so.

Funny how you are so ready to attack American law enforcement for following the law, but are so quick to give a pass to illegal aliens invading the US - and breaking the law. Perhaps you should fucking leave on the next ship transport back to Honduras with them, chimp.

 

[Eloy]

Teaching undocumented residents the laws will not change their status.
There is an inherent lack of justice in deporting ordinary law-abiding residents especially after living for decades as a law-abiding person and going on to marry and becoming a parent.
The federal government should understand this.
When Donald Trump said he wanted undocumented persons (normally Mexicans and others from Central America) deported, even he specified he meant career criminals (those guilty of murder, armed robbery, rapists, etc.) but over-zealous uniformed Immigration and Naturalization personnel are sweeping quite ordinary people into the net. The people were told by the president that it would be mean hombres who were to be targeted but something else, something inherently in-American, something ugly is happening instead.

There is nothing "ugly" about removing people that don't belong here. These are not "ordinary law biding citizens" these are people who illegally came to this country or illegally overstayed their Visa.

I don't know of any law or part of our immigration system that says if you sneak in, stay out of trouble for a few decades, all is well with us. If there is such a law, please post it with a link. Until that time, if you are not supposed to be here, you can and will get kicked out no matter how much trouble you do or don't cause.

Your inability or refusal to empathize with the child and her father is why you see no ugliness in this event.
By all accounts, the father was an ordinary law-abiding person. A DUI conviction being used to portray him as a criminal is unreasonable when there are murderers, armed robbers, and rapists on the loose.

Judges do take into consideration a previous record before passing judgement. It would be cruel to do otherwise. This is not a law but it is common jurisprudence. Judges do not look at people in an absolutist way but take into consideration mitigating circumstances, for example if an offender has been staying on the right side of the law for decades and has been responsible with a life in the United States, married and raising a family. Treating a good father-of-four the same as a career criminal is unjust.
Mitigating Circumstances in Sentencing
The father has done no harm and has a clean record for two decades. A judge will sentence accordingly.

By all accounts, the father was an ordinary law-abiding person

Except the DUI... And the stolen car... And coming here illegally ( and probably using a stolen ID and SS number)...And ignoring his initial deportation order.
I'll miss him when he goes back to Mexico. He sounded like a swell guy.

The DUI and a car not properly registered two decades before is far from murder, armed robbery or rape.

You forgot to mention being here illegally.

I addressed the fact that he is undocumented but he did not hurt anyone. No harm was done. I have also mentioned a few times in this thread that he was brought before a judge for a DUI twenty years ago. Why was he not deported then? He was allowed to stay and in the meantime he has been rearing four children, two now grown.

 

[EvilCat Breath]

I can relate to both sides to this.
I once was given the orders to go fire a teacher who had stolen confidential information / property to use
to take clients from a school for a competing tutoring business.
Clearly this was a violation of school property and grounds for dismissal.

but the way I went about it, I confronted and removed the teacher
in front of very upset students. The parents and students and teacher
were crying to each other over the phone afterwards, because no advance
warning was given and it was very traumatizing. We could have called in the parents with the
teacher and let them know what was happening right after telling
the teacher in private, and reduce the shock and upset.

So there are ways to take action civilly and orderly
where it doesn't have to traumatize the children affected.

Police coming to get parents who have violated parole
or probation often run into these confrontations that
make the kids "hate the police," so it causes severe damage
unless people plan ahead and set up better procedures.

The added benefitsd: by setting up agreed processes to begin with
not only are the community members made knowledgeable of laws and policing,
but the real problem people will get screened out if they have no
intention of complying ad cooperating with authorities. So the police
will already know which people are able to be law abiding
and which ones are truly criminally abusive, so they don't confuse the two.

So there are ways to take action civilly and orderly
where it doesn't have to traumatize the children affected.

His kids knew he was an illegal immigrant

They were willingly aiding and abetting a fugitive

A crime doesn't stop being a crime because
you consider it to be stupid or unfair.

They were all aware of the risk of getting caught
but, why worry bout it, the laws aren't enforced

He didn't worry about being removed from the country
or his family, when he foolishly decided...yeah,
being an illegal and driving drunk is a smart thing to do.

I think it was a good thing, the way it went down
It's important for children to realize...choices have consequences
Not agreeing with our laws doesn't make them above the law!

School of Hard Knocks-101

I didn't say or imply ANY of that keepitreal

I am saying to avoid escalating the confrontations by having a procedure set up in advance, where all residents agree to follow the laws and process.

I am saying to obey the laws and teach/train all community members to comply.

Sorry this wasn't clear. it is possible to be compassionate for both the citizens and govt/law enforcement AND uphold and enforce laws to deter and correct any breaches. It's not like one has to compromise the other.

Good govt is like good parenting.
You don't wait until you catch the kids breaking rules to suddenly ditch all kinds of scary punishment to deter them. The proper way is to teach, mentor and model the standard that you want to see enforced.

If we SKIP that step and don't teach people the laws and set up means for people to follow lawful process, can we wonder why people get thrown in jail with charges BEFORE they ever read what their rights are?

When we run classrooms, the teacher has all the students write out and ESTABLISH the rules of the classroom from DAY ONE.

We don't teach people the process of laws and enforcement processes, and don't require them to go through training, pass tests and sign agreements to follow the laws. We do this for drivers to get licenses. Why not do this for people to have rights and privileges of citizenship? Don't you think teaching people the laws and the responsibilities for compliance in advance might work to reduce problems? And that's why teachers do this in schools, and that's why we test and license drivers before letting them drive on the roads?

Why not do the same with law enforcement?

Teaching undocumented residents the laws will not change their status.
There is an inherent lack of justice in deporting ordinary law-abiding residents especially after living for decades as a law-abiding person and going on to marry and becoming a parent.
The federal government should understand this.
When Donald Trump said he wanted undocumented persons (normally Mexicans and others from Central America) deported, even he specified he meant career criminals (those guilty of murder, armed robbery, rapists, etc.) but over-zealous uniformed Immigration and Naturalization personnel are sweeping quite ordinary people into the net. The people were told by the president that it would be mean hombres who were to be targeted but something else, something inherently in-American, something ugly is happening instead.

There is nothing "ugly" about removing people that don't belong here. These are not "ordinary law biding citizens" these are people who illegally came to this country or illegally overstayed their Visa.

I don't know of any law or part of our immigration system that says if you sneak in, stay out of trouble for a few decades, all is well with us. If there is such a law, please post it with a link. Until that time, if you are not supposed to be here, you can and will get kicked out no matter how much trouble you do or don't cause.

Your inability or refusal to empathize with the child and her father is why you see no ugliness in this event.
By all accounts, the father was an ordinary law-abiding person. A DUI conviction being used to portray him as a criminal is unreasonable when there are murderers, armed robbers, and rapists on the loose.

Judges do take into consideration a previous record before passing judgement. It would be cruel to do otherwise. This is not a law but it is common jurisprudence. Judges do not look at people in an absolutist way but take into consideration mitigating circumstances, for example if an offender has been staying on the right side of the law for decades and has been responsible with a life in the United States, married and raising a family. Treating a good father-of-four the same as a career criminal is unjust.
Mitigating Circumstances in Sentencing
The father has done no harm and has a clean record for two decades. A judge will sentence accordingly.

There is an existing deportation order. He won't get to see a judge.

He's like Whitey Bulger who lived an exemplary life in Santa Monica.

 

[Eloy]

Teaching undocumented residents the laws will not change their status.
There is an inherent lack of justice in deporting ordinary law-abiding residents especially after living for decades as a law-abiding person and going on to marry and becoming a parent.
The federal government should understand this.
When Donald Trump said he wanted undocumented persons (normally Mexicans and others from Central America) deported, even he specified he meant career criminals (those guilty of murder, armed robbery, rapists, etc.) but over-zealous uniformed Immigration and Naturalization personnel are sweeping quite ordinary people into the net. The people were told by the president that it would be mean hombres who were to be targeted but something else, something inherently in-American, something ugly is happening instead.

There is nothing "ugly" about removing people that don't belong here. These are not "ordinary law biding citizens" these are people who illegally came to this country or illegally overstayed their Visa.

I don't know of any law or part of our immigration system that says if you sneak in, stay out of trouble for a few decades, all is well with us. If there is such a law, please post it with a link. Until that time, if you are not supposed to be here, you can and will get kicked out no matter how much trouble you do or don't cause.

Your inability or refusal to empathize with the child and her father is why you see no ugliness in this event.
By all accounts, the father was an ordinary law-abiding person. A DUI conviction being used to portray him as a criminal is unreasonable when there are murderers, armed robbers, and rapists on the loose.

Judges do take into consideration a previous record before passing judgement. It would be cruel to do otherwise. This is not a law but it is common jurisprudence. Judges do not look at people in an absolutist way but take into consideration mitigating circumstances, for example if an offender has been staying on the right side of the law for decades and has been responsible with a life in the United States, married and raising a family. Treating a good father-of-four the same as a career criminal is unjust.
Mitigating Circumstances in Sentencing
The father has done no harm and has a clean record for two decades. A judge will sentence accordingly.

By all accounts, the father was an ordinary law-abiding person

Except the DUI... And the stolen car... And coming here illegally ( and probably using a stolen ID and SS number)...And ignoring his initial deportation order.
I'll miss him when he goes back to Mexico. He sounded like a swell guy.

The DUI and a car not properly registered two decades before is far from murder, armed robbery or rape.

The DUI and a car not properly registered two decades

Yeah, the DUI and stolen car was a while ago.

far from murder, armed robbery or rape.

Yes it is. And still plenty to deport him for.

A decent judge would discount your moralizing.

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

There is nothing "ugly" about removing people that don't belong here. These are not "ordinary law biding citizens" these are people who illegally came to this country or illegally overstayed their Visa.

I don't know of any law or part of our immigration system that says if you sneak in, stay out of trouble for a few decades, all is well with us. If there is such a law, please post it with a link. Until that time, if you are not supposed to be here, you can and will get kicked out no matter how much trouble you do or don't cause.

Your inability or refusal to empathize with the child and her father is why you see no ugliness in this event.
By all accounts, the father was an ordinary law-abiding person. A DUI conviction being used to portray him as a criminal is unreasonable when there are murderers, armed robbers, and rapists on the loose.

Judges do take into consideration a previous record before passing judgement. It would be cruel to do otherwise. This is not a law but it is common jurisprudence. Judges do not look at people in an absolutist way but take into consideration mitigating circumstances, for example if an offender has been staying on the right side of the law for decades and has been responsible with a life in the United States, married and raising a family. Treating a good father-of-four the same as a career criminal is unjust.
Mitigating Circumstances in Sentencing
The father has done no harm and has a clean record for two decades. A judge will sentence accordingly.

By all accounts, the father was an ordinary law-abiding person

Except the DUI... And the stolen car... And coming here illegally ( and probably using a stolen ID and SS number)...And ignoring his initial deportation order.
I'll miss him when he goes back to Mexico. He sounded like a swell guy.

The DUI and a car not properly registered two decades before is far from murder, armed robbery or rape.

The DUI and a car not properly registered two decades

Yeah, the DUI and stolen car was a while ago.

far from murder, armed robbery or rape.

Yes it is. And still plenty to deport him for.

A decent judge would discount your moralizing.

As long as he gets deported.....discount all you want.

 

[Eloy]

There is nothing "ugly" about removing people that don't belong here. These are not "ordinary law biding citizens" these are people who illegally came to this country or illegally overstayed their Visa.

I don't know of any law or part of our immigration system that says if you sneak in, stay out of trouble for a few decades, all is well with us. If there is such a law, please post it with a link. Until that time, if you are not supposed to be here, you can and will get kicked out no matter how much trouble you do or don't cause.

Your inability or refusal to empathize with the child and her father is why you see no ugliness in this event.
By all accounts, the father was an ordinary law-abiding person. A DUI conviction being used to portray him as a criminal is unreasonable when there are murderers, armed robbers, and rapists on the loose.

Judges do take into consideration a previous record before passing judgement. It would be cruel to do otherwise. This is not a law but it is common jurisprudence. Judges do not look at people in an absolutist way but take into consideration mitigating circumstances, for example if an offender has been staying on the right side of the law for decades and has been responsible with a life in the United States, married and raising a family. Treating a good father-of-four the same as a career criminal is unjust.
Mitigating Circumstances in Sentencing
The father has done no harm and has a clean record for two decades. A judge will sentence accordingly.

By all accounts, the father was an ordinary law-abiding person

Except the DUI... And the stolen car... And coming here illegally ( and probably using a stolen ID and SS number)...And ignoring his initial deportation order.
I'll miss him when he goes back to Mexico. He sounded like a swell guy.

That's why i wait till the whole story comes out. The report was designed to illicit a knee-jerk response against Immigration Officials. More 'Fake News.' He may have been wanted for other crimes. If not, i'm a fair-minded person. Something reasonable could be worked out.

We have the whole story. There are cruel and heartless people who back-up the police every time, contrary to your belief.

We have the whole story.

Then why the kidnapping lie?

I saw the man being kidnapped in the video made by his distraught American daughter.

 

[rhodescholar]

Your inability or refusal to empathize with the child and her father is why you see no ugliness in this event. By all accounts, the father was an ordinary law-abiding person.

It is liberal, low IQ trash like this that makes the world such a fucked up place.

Scumbag, the father's PRESENCE in the country was a crime, he stole a job from an american, and he committed other crimes that luckily were not fatal while in the US.

The psychotic, diseased liberal mentality that apologizes for the worst behavior of whoever their pets are, no matter what they do, is just nauseating to see.