Paid time off for me, no paid time off for you.

[Andylusion]

That is a valid concern. I freely admit, I'm not an expert on the subject.

View attachment 313462

View attachment 313463

What am I not seeing?

Massive price increases on EpiPens raise alarm

Regulations on "capitalism" is what you are missing.

Now this is ironic...

So I did some digging into this, just for amusement.

Once again, the socialists blow their own foot off, with socialism, and blame capitalism for their own incompetence.

You stupid brainless fools... This is level of absolute stupidity, is exactly why Trump got elected.

There are two specific reasons Epi-Pens went up in cost.

The cost of Epi-Pens was negotiated by Mylan and Insurance companies. As a result, prices were fairly stable.
Then the government got involved with ObamaCare, and deductibles dramatically increased, and as a result the cost of EpiPens were pushed onto consumers in higher prices, because the insurance companies were no longer involved.

So reason number one.... socialism.

And then the bigger of the two reasons, and most important....

A lack of free-market competition. Now that is fascinating isn't it.

Did you know that epinephrine is not even patented? Did you know that epinephrine has been synthesized since about 1906?

So let me ask you.... how is it that there is only one single supplier of epinephrine auto injectors in the entire US market?

Doesn't that make you curious? Are you not even a tad confused how in a free market, where it costs 10 cents to make a dose, and can be sold for $25, that not a single capitalist in the entire country thought.... "Hey I could make this, and sell it for $10, and make a killing!"?

Does your tiny little left-wing brain, not have the slightest curiosity as to why Capitalists always looking for a profit, have not jumped on this?

Well of course not. Of course you are not smart enough to ask questions, because if you were, you would ask, find out, and then stop being a left-winger.

Because the answer is... Government is why no capitalist has jumped into the epinephrine market. Government has prevented a free-market. And the result has been higher prices, and you idiots crying about Capitalism.

The irony is, you point to Europe, and yet Europe in this specific instance, is actually more capitalist, which is exactly way prices are lower. There are dozens of competitors in Europe, and because of competition in the market, the price is lower.

Reverse Voxsplaining: Drugs vs. Chairs

Let me ask Vox a question: when was the last time that America’s chair industry hiked the price of chairs 400% and suddenly nobody in the country could afford to sit down?

If a chair company decided to charge $300 for their chairs, somebody else would set up a woodshop, sell their chairs for $250, and make a killing – and so on until chairs cost normal-chair-prices again. When Mylan decided to sell EpiPens for $300, in any normal system somebody would have made their own EpiPens and sold them for less. It wouldn’t have been hard. Its active ingredient, epinephrine, is off-patent, was being synthesized as early as 1906, and costs about ten cents per EpiPen-load.

Why don’t they? They keep trying, and the FDA keeps refusing to approve them for human use. For example, in 2009, a group called Teva Pharmaceuticals announced a plan to sell their own EpiPens in the US. The makers of the original EpiPen sued them, saying that they had patented the idea epinephrine-injecting devices. Teva successfully fended off the challenge and brought its product to the FDA, which rejected it because of “certain major deficiencies”. As far as I know, nobody has ever publicly said what the problem was – we can only hope they at least told Teva.
​

You people are the reason we have problems with expensive health care. You people. You people on the left, with all your regulations, and government controls, you are the cause of high prices.

You stupid ignorant fools, are the cause of every single problem in our country.

If this was factual the prices wouldn't have plummeted after people demanded something be done.

What do you mean? People demanded something be done. What they did, was allow a competitor into the market. Logically with more competition, prices dropped.

IF they allowed even more competition, like Europe, prices would drop more.

The market is reacting exactly as expected given the level of free-market capitalism the government allowed.

When the government allowed very little... the prices went up.
As the government allowed a little more... the prices went down.

Once you research everything that affected Epipen, the market is behaving exactly as anyone with a thinking mind, would expect it too.

Obviously you were not paying attention. This was Senator Manchin's daughter and living in WV it was front page. It was nothing but pure greed. Manchin wasn't even able to defend it.

That isn't relevant to my point.

In a free-market capitalist system, alternatives to EpiPen would be on the market. Assuming that the information is accurate, that epinephrine has been around since 1906, that is not patented, that it costs 10 cents to synthesize, and if the hospital I posted above, can in fact make EpiPen alternatives for just $25 for a pack....

Then someone somewhere should have been able to offer cheaper alternatives to Mylon, for a fraction of the price, decades ago, and make millions doing so.

There is only one possible explanation for why this was not done. The market is not a free-market capitalist system, because the government regulations, and controlling agencies, has prevented people from entering the market.

In my research, there were a total of 5 different alternatives to the EpiPen operating elsewhere in the world. One from Canada, Sweden, and a few others.

Now that should give you a clue, that the Free-market Capitalist system works, when it is allowed to do so.

Because... the EpiPen was already cheaper in Europe, than in the US, and yet cheaper alternatives popped up in Europe in price competition, when the product is more expensive here. Obviously if the product is more expensive in the US, then there is a greater profit potential for cheaper alternatives here.

Then why was there no cheaper alternatives here in the US for decades?

Again.. the answer is obvious. Left-wing socialist regulations and controls prevented the introduction of alternatives.

Senator Manchin's daughter has nothing to do with that. Government controls and socialist regulations and agencies like the FDA prevented the introduction of alternatives.

Who, between the right-wing and left-wing, generally is in favor of more regulations and controls? And who is in favor of reducing regulations and controls?

Obviously left-wingers are the ones in favor of government control. Then after giving government control, the left-wing wants to complain that people in government use that control in their favor, like Senator Manchin's daughter.

Well, you can whine about Senator Manchin's daughter, but the reality is, those who supported government control in the first place, are the ones to blame for Senator Manchin's daughter being able to engage in whatever they did.

This is just like Hugo Chavez's daughter. So under Chavez, the government was directly involved in food markets. Not only did they enact price controls, but they also themselves started buying and distributing food. Of course after they ruined the market, that resulted in the biggest supplier of food, being the government. Hugo Chavez's daughter, setup a front company outside the country, to keep profits from rice from Argentina, at greatly increased prices, paid for by the Venezuelan people.
Hugo Chávez's Favorite Daughter Implicated In Argentinian Rice Corruption Scandal

Again, how was this able happen? Because in a free-market, where rice was sold at stores at voluntary prices, no one would be forced to pay excessive prices for rice from only one company left in the market.

Well obviously, because the public voted for Hugo Chavez, which destroyed the market, and the result was a monopoly that Hugo Chavez's daughter could exploit.

Ayn Rand has a great video on Youtube, about the two kinds of Capitalism. And specifically talks about this exact situation with EpiPen, and the Rice in Venezuela, all the way back in 50s or whenever this talk happened.



So once again, you can scream and yell about the companies, but ultimately it's the left-wingers and socialists that are to blame for everything.

 

[Andylusion]

And the wise diversify to minimize total risk. There are funds that pay lower returns but are safer. If you don't want the big risks and rewards the market provides, you don't have to invest in it.

You don't but as I have been pointing out, the markets still want to take your money.

Uhhh, everyone wants to take your money, if you'll give it to them. Notice that in a Capitalist society, you get something, goods or services, in exchange for your money.

You get that in any society so that is a bit of a moot point.

The Market wants your money, but it gives a return. That return is not guaranteed, so you take the risk of investing if you want to. The market can't steal your money.

Negative rates.

Again, name one bank, that is taking money out of accounts. You can't. I just posted that all the banks in my area, are still providing positive interest rates.

So AGAIN.... you can keep repeating that, and it just makes you look ignorant.

 

[Andylusion]

Agreed. I oppose all bailouts. Still does not change the fact the markets are working just fine without bailouts.

Then why are we going to bail them out again?

Why are you asking me? I'm a conservative. I'm against bailouts. Conservative pundits are against bailouts. We have been before there was even a Tea Party protesting bailouts.

Why are you asking me this? You are a Democrat, right? Democrats control the House of Representatives, and the House controls the purse of the entire government.

Why don't you talk to your Democrats, and tell them not to provide any money for bailouts. I'll support you in doing that.

I'm not a Democrat. I'm (I). Trump is going to do this. You support and will vote for him again despite your claims.

Well first, I didn't vote for him. I voted for Darrel Castle. Constitutionalist party.
I thought Trump was going to be a left-winger. And his morals suck.

But he has been exceptionally conservative, far more than I'd expect.

No politicians is going to be a perfect ideologue. If we only voted for perfect candidates, then we would have a authoritarian dictatorship by now. Because all people with good ideological positions, would never vote for any candidate, and only the crappiest people, voted for by the crappiest people, would be in office.

Based on what I've seen, Trump is still the best possible candidate.

And based on your posts, clearly you don't have any better option. If we on the right, did not vote for Trump, people like you who don't even know how the Federal Reserve works, saying myths about people having their retirement stolen by negative interest rates, and all the other non-stop nonsense you have been posting for the last 16 pages... clearly we would end up with an AOC type as president, and then we would still have bailouts, only we'd also have elimination of our liberties, socializing of industry, food lines, protest and riots, and end up cooking up the family dog to live.

Because that's what happens when ignorant people vote for ignorant people, and try and change the system.... Hugo Chavez in Venezuela, being voted for by all the people now starving, is a perfect example.

So yeah... I don't know what Trump will do. He might bailout some companies. We on the conservative right-wing will oppose him, and he might do it anyway.

Still way better... by a wide wide margin, than anything you have to offer.

Trump keeps pushing ‘negative' interest rates. What would that mean for your wallet?

Ok finally.... I'm assuming that if you provide the evidence, and I can blow up your argument with your own evidence, that you will stop saying utterly stupid and incompetent things.

FROM YOUR OWN ARTICLE:

But don’t worry about the idea of being charged by a bank to keep your money there. Any bank that did that would lose customers for other banks that didn’t. In countries that have tried negative interest rates, only large institutional investors have been charged.​

THE END.

You are done sir. From here on in this thread, I am going to copy and paste YOUR OWN ARTICLE, and the quote from YOUR OWN ARTICLE, and tell you to shut up.

 

[Andylusion]

Not true.

The reason Apple's stock pays a return, has nothing to do with the Federal Reserve, or socialism.

It has to do with Apple selling products, and making a profit.

My dividends, which I am still even now, collecting even with the market lower... is because Apple is still selling phones and computers, and making a profit.

No socialism is involved in this. The Fed is not bailing out Apple. The Fed is not boasting Apple's profit.

There is zero connection between the value of my stocks in companies like Apple, and their dividends, or their market value. It has to do with the profit of the company, and the value of the company.

Now we all know that the market has declined. And the reason is because investors are considering the possibility that there could be supply chain disruptions, and that this could hinder Apple Sales, and that this could hinder profits.

Again, what part of that equation has anything at all to do with the Federal Reserve? None.

So there is no socialism involved in the growth and profit of the market. You are just ignorant, and spewing nonsense someone told you, without any intellectual thought involved.

Fed injects trillions. The markets go up.....no one worked or sold a thing for this..........until it all pops again and the corporations come clamoring for another bail out.

Well already, your argument is false. Because according to you Fed is injecting trillions now, and the markets went down, and no one worked or sold a thing for this.

So, fail.

Regardless, that's not a failure of capitalism, or the markets... that's a failure of your government control. If the government refuses to bail out Lehman Brothers, then Lehman Brothers just isn't bailed out.

Doesn't matter if someone comes clamoring for another bailout or not. You just don't give it.

Call your Democrats who control the purse of government, and tell them... no bailouts. I'm all for it. I support that.

Trump is leading the call for the bail outs. Bush bailed out the banks.

Right, and we opposed that.

Again... call up the Democrats in the House, and tell them no money for bailouts.

I don't get what your point is.

Get to a point. What do you want me to do?

Vote for someone worse, because you don't like Trump? How is putting someone 100X worse in his place, going to improve anything?

What should you do? Quit trying to pretend this is some sort of partisan problem.

Ok. Done.

Now what?

Get to a point. What do you want me to do?

 

[Andylusion]

Now that the Republicans gave into passing out free money, that's going to put us yet another trillion into debt, what does anybody want to bet it won't do shit for the economy, the market, or individuals suffering the financial effects of this virus?

Agreed. I oppose bailouts entirely. And it won't help. Just more debt, and more problems trying to pay off debt in the future.

 

[Andylusion]

Uhhh, everyone wants to take your money, if you'll give it to them. Notice that in a Capitalist society, you get something, goods or services, in exchange for your money.

You get that in any society so that is a bit of a moot point.

The Market wants your money, but it gives a return. That return is not guaranteed, so you take the risk of investing if you want to. The market can't steal your money.

Negative rates.

It's still your choice to invest in the markets. They can't raid your bank account or take the coffee can from under your bed.

How many times do I need to point this out? They want to raid your bank accounts now with negative rates. This is how desperate they are. And this is suppose to be the greatest system ever devised?

Trump keeps pushing ‘negative' interest rates. What would that mean for your wallet?

FROM YOUR OWN ARTICLE:

But don’t worry about the idea of being charged by a bank to keep your money there. Any bank that did that would lose customers for other banks that didn’t. In countries that have tried negative interest rates, only large institutional investors have been charged.​

THE END.

 

[Andylusion]

Well if we give no help to workers who have lost their jobs and have no income now how do you expect them to eat and feed their kids? For working folk living check to check this means survival.

Well, like any smart and intelligent person, you save money. I have thousands of dollars in the bank. I have this because I was taught, like most people should, that you should save for a rainy day.

That's why we have truisms and phrases like "A rainy day fund". That's why such statements exist.

Of course I had to live on less than I make. And thus even with my $25,000 a year income, that mean spending, less than $25,000 a year.

That's how you pay for kids to eat, when you have a job loss situation.

In short.... don't live check to check. And don't give me this crap that you can't. I was saving money back when I was only making $19,000 a year.

 

[Andylusion]

Not true.

The reason Apple's stock pays a return, has nothing to do with the Federal Reserve, or socialism.

It has to do with Apple selling products, and making a profit.

My dividends, which I am still even now, collecting even with the market lower... is because Apple is still selling phones and computers, and making a profit.

No socialism is involved in this. The Fed is not bailing out Apple. The Fed is not boasting Apple's profit.

There is zero connection between the value of my stocks in companies like Apple, and their dividends, or their market value. It has to do with the profit of the company, and the value of the company.

Now we all know that the market has declined. And the reason is because investors are considering the possibility that there could be supply chain disruptions, and that this could hinder Apple Sales, and that this could hinder profits.

Again, what part of that equation has anything at all to do with the Federal Reserve? None.

So there is no socialism involved in the growth and profit of the market. You are just ignorant, and spewing nonsense someone told you, without any intellectual thought involved.

Fed injects trillions. The markets go up.....no one worked or sold a thing for this..........until it all pops again and the corporations come clamoring for another bail out.

Well already, your argument is false. Because according to you Fed is injecting trillions now, and the markets went down, and no one worked or sold a thing for this.

So, fail.

Regardless, that's not a failure of capitalism, or the markets... that's a failure of your government control. If the government refuses to bail out Lehman Brothers, then Lehman Brothers just isn't bailed out.

Doesn't matter if someone comes clamoring for another bailout or not. You just don't give it.

Call your Democrats who control the purse of government, and tell them... no bailouts. I'm all for it. I support that.

Trump is leading the call for the bail outs. Bush bailed out the banks.

Right, and we opposed that.

Again... call up the Democrats in the House, and tell them no money for bailouts.

I don't get what your point is.

Get to a point. What do you want me to do?

Vote for someone worse, because you don't like Trump? How is putting someone 100X worse in his place, going to improve anything?

No one is worse than the orange incompetent psychopath

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ Triggered

You need to color your avatar orange. it would just be fitting, since clearly the orange man is on your mind anyway.

 

[Andylusion]

Extreme situations never end. Neither do normal ones.

Right, we are never going to end the socialist policies for the market........

and you're never going to stop being pissed about shit you can't change that doesn't fit into your defend the 1% mantra.

move on.

Did you see the remarks by Mark Cuban? I posted them but no one wanted to reply. Things are changing.

Talking to you is a fucking circular logic beating.

Facts seem to bother you.

How would you know either way? You haven't posted facts yet. In fact you posted an article that directly contradicted everything you've been saying the last 16 pages.

 

[Andylusion]

Well if we give no help to workers who have lost their jobs and have no income now how do you expect them to eat and feed their kids? For working folk living check to check this means survival.

You simply go on unemployment, just like you would if you got laid off.

Trump doesn't know this?

https://www.washingtonpost.com/us-policy/2020/03/17/trump-coronavirus-stimulus-package/

He knows it, but is caving into the pressure. Passing out checks isn't going to help many people, and certainly not the economy. So what happens if this is the new norm? What if this virus can't be totally wiped out? Are we going to be doing this every flu season?

This has been the norm for a long time. I didn't see you complaining when the Fed was "stimulating" the markets for years.

Yeah, because facts seem to bother you. That's why you keep repeating lies.

 

[Andylusion]

and you're never going to stop being pissed about shit you can't change that doesn't fit into your defend the 1% mantra.

move on.

Did you see the remarks by Mark Cuban? I posted them but no one wanted to reply. Things are changing.

Talking to you is a fucking circular logic beating.

Facts seem to bother you.

Not at all.

Fucking idiots who make shit up as they go, yes.

Jim Cramer praises Mark Cuban’s bailout suggestions: ‘So tired of the rich profiting from every cataclysm’

Well that's kind of dumb.

There are two kinds of rich. The rich that invest wisely and reap rewards for wise investments, and the rich who make money off the government.

Stop voting for people who support bailouts and giving money out. After 2009, I voted against every single senator, or house member, of voted in favor of the bailouts. That includes Obama by the way.

If everyone did that, this wouldn't happen.

The irony is, you not only keep voting for the people who bailout everyone, but now you say "Well we should give out more bailouts, since the rich are getting a bailout".

And don't deny that, you have said as much in previous posts.

So you are part of the problem.

But most of the rich, who get wealthy off of Cataclysm, are simply being wise investors. There is nothing wrong with that.

In fact, I'm doing the exact same thing as the rich right now. The stock market, as you are aware, has crashed quite a bit. I'm buying stock. Stocks are on sale.

The way most of the rich get wealthy during a crash, is because they are buying, when everyone else is selling. Then when the market bounces back, they end up making hundreds of millions.

There is nothing evil in that. If you sell your stock, because you saw the market fall, and I'm the one buying your stock, because I know the market will recover.... that's not me being evil, that's you being stupid.

My being smart, and you being dumb, is not morally wrong.

 

[Andylusion]

He knows it, but is caving into the pressure. Passing out checks isn't going to help many people, and certainly not the economy. So what happens if this is the new norm? What if this virus can't be totally wiped out? Are we going to be doing this every flu season?

This has been the norm for a long time. I didn't see you complaining when the Fed was "stimulating" the markets for years.

I'm talking about the virus being part of our life, just like the flu is. You just joined the forum last July. You don't know what my past opinion was on the feds or the market. It's been discussed here repeatedly.

It's one thing to help those who are affected by this problem, but to pass out checks to everybody whether they are working or not is the wrong approach to this. As you know, I am a Trump supporter, and I'm telling you he's wrong on this decision. It's not going to solve any problems.

Just like everything else Trump says. Well, just like everything else Trump actually does.

I know what Trump has done and is doing. Most everything he does is right. If Hillary or anybody else from the left were in charge right now, they'd still be ushering foreigners into the country making this problem ten times worse than it is now. While Trump was expanding his travel ban to China and other places, the Democrats said he was taking action out of racism, and even passed a bill to eliminate his original travel ban.

I don't care if you hate him or not, but just be glad he's leading our country during these trying times. It could have been much worse if Hillary got in.

No one was banned.

Whether you admit it or not, Trump has taken correct actions. And the fact is, all the people who oppose him, have said they wanted open boarders and trying to limit people entering the country is racism. I've heard them say it.

So regardless of what beef you have with Trump, and no matter how legitimate some of those beefs might be.... all the alternatives would be worse. Just a fact.

 

[pknopp]

Massive price increases on EpiPens raise alarm

Regulations on "capitalism" is what you are missing.

Now this is ironic...

So I did some digging into this, just for amusement.

Once again, the socialists blow their own foot off, with socialism, and blame capitalism for their own incompetence.

You stupid brainless fools... This is level of absolute stupidity, is exactly why Trump got elected.

There are two specific reasons Epi-Pens went up in cost.

The cost of Epi-Pens was negotiated by Mylan and Insurance companies. As a result, prices were fairly stable.
Then the government got involved with ObamaCare, and deductibles dramatically increased, and as a result the cost of EpiPens were pushed onto consumers in higher prices, because the insurance companies were no longer involved.

So reason number one.... socialism.

And then the bigger of the two reasons, and most important....

A lack of free-market competition. Now that is fascinating isn't it.

Did you know that epinephrine is not even patented? Did you know that epinephrine has been synthesized since about 1906?

So let me ask you.... how is it that there is only one single supplier of epinephrine auto injectors in the entire US market?

Doesn't that make you curious? Are you not even a tad confused how in a free market, where it costs 10 cents to make a dose, and can be sold for $25, that not a single capitalist in the entire country thought.... "Hey I could make this, and sell it for $10, and make a killing!"?

Does your tiny little left-wing brain, not have the slightest curiosity as to why Capitalists always looking for a profit, have not jumped on this?

Well of course not. Of course you are not smart enough to ask questions, because if you were, you would ask, find out, and then stop being a left-winger.

Because the answer is... Government is why no capitalist has jumped into the epinephrine market. Government has prevented a free-market. And the result has been higher prices, and you idiots crying about Capitalism.

The irony is, you point to Europe, and yet Europe in this specific instance, is actually more capitalist, which is exactly way prices are lower. There are dozens of competitors in Europe, and because of competition in the market, the price is lower.

Reverse Voxsplaining: Drugs vs. Chairs

Let me ask Vox a question: when was the last time that America’s chair industry hiked the price of chairs 400% and suddenly nobody in the country could afford to sit down?

If a chair company decided to charge $300 for their chairs, somebody else would set up a woodshop, sell their chairs for $250, and make a killing – and so on until chairs cost normal-chair-prices again. When Mylan decided to sell EpiPens for $300, in any normal system somebody would have made their own EpiPens and sold them for less. It wouldn’t have been hard. Its active ingredient, epinephrine, is off-patent, was being synthesized as early as 1906, and costs about ten cents per EpiPen-load.

Why don’t they? They keep trying, and the FDA keeps refusing to approve them for human use. For example, in 2009, a group called Teva Pharmaceuticals announced a plan to sell their own EpiPens in the US. The makers of the original EpiPen sued them, saying that they had patented the idea epinephrine-injecting devices. Teva successfully fended off the challenge and brought its product to the FDA, which rejected it because of “certain major deficiencies”. As far as I know, nobody has ever publicly said what the problem was – we can only hope they at least told Teva.
​

You people are the reason we have problems with expensive health care. You people. You people on the left, with all your regulations, and government controls, you are the cause of high prices.

You stupid ignorant fools, are the cause of every single problem in our country.

If this was factual the prices wouldn't have plummeted after people demanded something be done.

What do you mean? People demanded something be done. What they did, was allow a competitor into the market. Logically with more competition, prices dropped.

IF they allowed even more competition, like Europe, prices would drop more.

The market is reacting exactly as expected given the level of free-market capitalism the government allowed.

When the government allowed very little... the prices went up.
As the government allowed a little more... the prices went down.

Once you research everything that affected Epipen, the market is behaving exactly as anyone with a thinking mind, would expect it too.

Obviously you were not paying attention. This was Senator Manchin's daughter and living in WV it was front page. It was nothing but pure greed. Manchin wasn't even able to defend it.

That isn't relevant to my point.

In a free-market capitalist system, alternatives to EpiPen would be on the market. Assuming that the information is accurate, that epinephrine has been around since 1906, that is not patented, that it costs 10 cents to synthesize, and if the hospital I posted above, can in fact make EpiPen alternatives for just $25 for a pack....

Then someone somewhere should have been able to offer cheaper alternatives to Mylon, for a fraction of the price, decades ago, and make millions doing so.

There is only one possible explanation for why this was not done. The market is not a free-market capitalist system, because the government regulations, and controlling agencies, has prevented people from entering the market.

In my research, there were a total of 5 different alternatives to the EpiPen operating elsewhere in the world. One from Canada, Sweden, and a few others.

Now that should give you a clue, that the Free-market Capitalist system works, when it is allowed to do so.

Because... the EpiPen was already cheaper in Europe, than in the US, and yet cheaper alternatives popped up in Europe in price competition, when the product is more expensive here. Obviously if the product is more expensive in the US, then there is a greater profit potential for cheaper alternatives here.

Then why was there no cheaper alternatives here in the US for decades?

Again.. the answer is obvious. Left-wing socialist regulations and controls prevented the introduction of alternatives.

Senator Manchin's daughter has nothing to do with that. Government controls and socialist regulations and agencies like the FDA prevented the introduction of alternatives.

Who, between the right-wing and left-wing, generally is in favor of more regulations and controls? And who is in favor of reducing regulations and controls?

Obviously left-wingers are the ones in favor of government control. Then after giving government control, the left-wing wants to complain that people in government use that control in their favor, like Senator Manchin's daughter.

Well, you can whine about Senator Manchin's daughter, but the reality is, those who supported government control in the first place, are the ones to blame for Senator Manchin's daughter being able to engage in whatever they did.

This is just like Hugo Chavez's daughter. So under Chavez, the government was directly involved in food markets. Not only did they enact price controls, but they also themselves started buying and distributing food. Of course after they ruined the market, that resulted in the biggest supplier of food, being the government. Hugo Chavez's daughter, setup a front company outside the country, to keep profits from rice from Argentina, at greatly increased prices, paid for by the Venezuelan people.
Hugo Chávez's Favorite Daughter Implicated In Argentinian Rice Corruption Scandal

Again, how was this able happen? Because in a free-market, where rice was sold at stores at voluntary prices, no one would be forced to pay excessive prices for rice from only one company left in the market.

Well obviously, because the public voted for Hugo Chavez, which destroyed the market, and the result was a monopoly that Hugo Chavez's daughter could exploit.

Ayn Rand has a great video on Youtube, about the two kinds of Capitalism. And specifically talks about this exact situation with EpiPen, and the Rice in Venezuela, all the way back in 50s or whenever this talk happened.



So once again, you can scream and yell about the companies, but ultimately it's the left-wingers and socialists that are to blame for everything.

The free market capitalists do not want free market capitalism to work. I've said all along that I will go right along the day the Fed is shut down. Until that happens there is no use in even discussing it.

 

[pknopp]

You don't but as I have been pointing out, the markets still want to take your money.

Uhhh, everyone wants to take your money, if you'll give it to them. Notice that in a Capitalist society, you get something, goods or services, in exchange for your money.

You get that in any society so that is a bit of a moot point.

The Market wants your money, but it gives a return. That return is not guaranteed, so you take the risk of investing if you want to. The market can't steal your money.

Negative rates.

Again, name one bank, that is taking money out of accounts. You can't. I just posted that all the banks in my area, are still providing positive interest rates.

So AGAIN.... you can keep repeating that, and it just makes you look ignorant.

I'm done since you will not discuss this honestly.

 

[Andylusion]

Now this is ironic...

So I did some digging into this, just for amusement.

Once again, the socialists blow their own foot off, with socialism, and blame capitalism for their own incompetence.

You stupid brainless fools... This is level of absolute stupidity, is exactly why Trump got elected.

There are two specific reasons Epi-Pens went up in cost.

The cost of Epi-Pens was negotiated by Mylan and Insurance companies. As a result, prices were fairly stable.
Then the government got involved with ObamaCare, and deductibles dramatically increased, and as a result the cost of EpiPens were pushed onto consumers in higher prices, because the insurance companies were no longer involved.

So reason number one.... socialism.

And then the bigger of the two reasons, and most important....

A lack of free-market competition. Now that is fascinating isn't it.

Did you know that epinephrine is not even patented? Did you know that epinephrine has been synthesized since about 1906?

So let me ask you.... how is it that there is only one single supplier of epinephrine auto injectors in the entire US market?

Doesn't that make you curious? Are you not even a tad confused how in a free market, where it costs 10 cents to make a dose, and can be sold for $25, that not a single capitalist in the entire country thought.... "Hey I could make this, and sell it for $10, and make a killing!"?

Does your tiny little left-wing brain, not have the slightest curiosity as to why Capitalists always looking for a profit, have not jumped on this?

Well of course not. Of course you are not smart enough to ask questions, because if you were, you would ask, find out, and then stop being a left-winger.

Because the answer is... Government is why no capitalist has jumped into the epinephrine market. Government has prevented a free-market. And the result has been higher prices, and you idiots crying about Capitalism.

The irony is, you point to Europe, and yet Europe in this specific instance, is actually more capitalist, which is exactly way prices are lower. There are dozens of competitors in Europe, and because of competition in the market, the price is lower.

Reverse Voxsplaining: Drugs vs. Chairs

Let me ask Vox a question: when was the last time that America’s chair industry hiked the price of chairs 400% and suddenly nobody in the country could afford to sit down?

If a chair company decided to charge $300 for their chairs, somebody else would set up a woodshop, sell their chairs for $250, and make a killing – and so on until chairs cost normal-chair-prices again. When Mylan decided to sell EpiPens for $300, in any normal system somebody would have made their own EpiPens and sold them for less. It wouldn’t have been hard. Its active ingredient, epinephrine, is off-patent, was being synthesized as early as 1906, and costs about ten cents per EpiPen-load.

Why don’t they? They keep trying, and the FDA keeps refusing to approve them for human use. For example, in 2009, a group called Teva Pharmaceuticals announced a plan to sell their own EpiPens in the US. The makers of the original EpiPen sued them, saying that they had patented the idea epinephrine-injecting devices. Teva successfully fended off the challenge and brought its product to the FDA, which rejected it because of “certain major deficiencies”. As far as I know, nobody has ever publicly said what the problem was – we can only hope they at least told Teva.
​

You people are the reason we have problems with expensive health care. You people. You people on the left, with all your regulations, and government controls, you are the cause of high prices.

You stupid ignorant fools, are the cause of every single problem in our country.

If this was factual the prices wouldn't have plummeted after people demanded something be done.

What do you mean? People demanded something be done. What they did, was allow a competitor into the market. Logically with more competition, prices dropped.

IF they allowed even more competition, like Europe, prices would drop more.

The market is reacting exactly as expected given the level of free-market capitalism the government allowed.

When the government allowed very little... the prices went up.
As the government allowed a little more... the prices went down.

Once you research everything that affected Epipen, the market is behaving exactly as anyone with a thinking mind, would expect it too.

Obviously you were not paying attention. This was Senator Manchin's daughter and living in WV it was front page. It was nothing but pure greed. Manchin wasn't even able to defend it.

That isn't relevant to my point.

In a free-market capitalist system, alternatives to EpiPen would be on the market. Assuming that the information is accurate, that epinephrine has been around since 1906, that is not patented, that it costs 10 cents to synthesize, and if the hospital I posted above, can in fact make EpiPen alternatives for just $25 for a pack....

Then someone somewhere should have been able to offer cheaper alternatives to Mylon, for a fraction of the price, decades ago, and make millions doing so.

There is only one possible explanation for why this was not done. The market is not a free-market capitalist system, because the government regulations, and controlling agencies, has prevented people from entering the market.

In my research, there were a total of 5 different alternatives to the EpiPen operating elsewhere in the world. One from Canada, Sweden, and a few others.

Now that should give you a clue, that the Free-market Capitalist system works, when it is allowed to do so.

Because... the EpiPen was already cheaper in Europe, than in the US, and yet cheaper alternatives popped up in Europe in price competition, when the product is more expensive here. Obviously if the product is more expensive in the US, then there is a greater profit potential for cheaper alternatives here.

Then why was there no cheaper alternatives here in the US for decades?

Again.. the answer is obvious. Left-wing socialist regulations and controls prevented the introduction of alternatives.

Senator Manchin's daughter has nothing to do with that. Government controls and socialist regulations and agencies like the FDA prevented the introduction of alternatives.

Who, between the right-wing and left-wing, generally is in favor of more regulations and controls? And who is in favor of reducing regulations and controls?

Obviously left-wingers are the ones in favor of government control. Then after giving government control, the left-wing wants to complain that people in government use that control in their favor, like Senator Manchin's daughter.

Well, you can whine about Senator Manchin's daughter, but the reality is, those who supported government control in the first place, are the ones to blame for Senator Manchin's daughter being able to engage in whatever they did.

This is just like Hugo Chavez's daughter. So under Chavez, the government was directly involved in food markets. Not only did they enact price controls, but they also themselves started buying and distributing food. Of course after they ruined the market, that resulted in the biggest supplier of food, being the government. Hugo Chavez's daughter, setup a front company outside the country, to keep profits from rice from Argentina, at greatly increased prices, paid for by the Venezuelan people.
Hugo Chávez's Favorite Daughter Implicated In Argentinian Rice Corruption Scandal

Again, how was this able happen? Because in a free-market, where rice was sold at stores at voluntary prices, no one would be forced to pay excessive prices for rice from only one company left in the market.

Well obviously, because the public voted for Hugo Chavez, which destroyed the market, and the result was a monopoly that Hugo Chavez's daughter could exploit.

Ayn Rand has a great video on Youtube, about the two kinds of Capitalism. And specifically talks about this exact situation with EpiPen, and the Rice in Venezuela, all the way back in 50s or whenever this talk happened.



So once again, you can scream and yell about the companies, but ultimately it's the left-wingers and socialists that are to blame for everything.

The free market capitalists do not want free market capitalism to work. I've said all along that I will go right along the day the Fed is shut down. Until that happens there is no use in even discussing it.

So you make up stuff, and then say there is no use in even discussion it, after discussing it for 16 pages or more.

you people....

 

[Andylusion]

Uhhh, everyone wants to take your money, if you'll give it to them. Notice that in a Capitalist society, you get something, goods or services, in exchange for your money.

You get that in any society so that is a bit of a moot point.

The Market wants your money, but it gives a return. That return is not guaranteed, so you take the risk of investing if you want to. The market can't steal your money.

Negative rates.

Again, name one bank, that is taking money out of accounts. You can't. I just posted that all the banks in my area, are still providing positive interest rates.

So AGAIN.... you can keep repeating that, and it just makes you look ignorant.

I'm done since you will not discuss this honestly.

FROM YOUR OWN ARTICLE:

But don’t worry about the idea of being charged by a bank to keep your money there. Any bank that did that would lose customers for other banks that didn’t. In countries that have tried negative interest rates, only large institutional investors have been charged.

THE END.

But we do agree on one thing.... you are in fact, Done.

 

[pknopp]

You get that in any society so that is a bit of a moot point.

The Market wants your money, but it gives a return. That return is not guaranteed, so you take the risk of investing if you want to. The market can't steal your money.

Negative rates.

Again, name one bank, that is taking money out of accounts. You can't. I just posted that all the banks in my area, are still providing positive interest rates.

So AGAIN.... you can keep repeating that, and it just makes you look ignorant.

I'm done since you will not discuss this honestly.

FROM YOUR OWN ARTICLE:

But don’t worry about the idea of being charged by a bank to keep your money there. Any bank that did that would lose customers for other banks that didn’t. In countries that have tried negative interest rates, only large institutional investors have been charged.

THE END.

But we do agree on one thing.... you are in fact, Done.

Trump wasn't aware of that when he called for it. You would think he would, wouldn't you?

Give me some of that: Trump renews call for negative U.S. interest rates

 

[Andylusion]

The Market wants your money, but it gives a return. That return is not guaranteed, so you take the risk of investing if you want to. The market can't steal your money.

Negative rates.

Again, name one bank, that is taking money out of accounts. You can't. I just posted that all the banks in my area, are still providing positive interest rates.

So AGAIN.... you can keep repeating that, and it just makes you look ignorant.

I'm done since you will not discuss this honestly.

FROM YOUR OWN ARTICLE:

But don’t worry about the idea of being charged by a bank to keep your money there. Any bank that did that would lose customers for other banks that didn’t. In countries that have tried negative interest rates, only large institutional investors have been charged.

THE END.

But we do agree on one thing.... you are in fact, Done.

Trump wasn't aware of that when he called for it. You would think he would, wouldn't you?

Give me some of that: Trump renews call for negative U.S. interest rates

Irrelevant. You claimed that negative interest rates were stealing money from retirement or seniors.

FROM YOUR OWN ARTICLE:

But don’t worry about the idea of being charged by a bank to keep your money there. Any bank that did that would lose customers for other banks that didn’t. In countries that have tried negative interest rates, only large institutional investors have been charged.

THE END.

Doesn't matter what Trump, did or did not know. Your argument is crap, and you need to stop saying it. Your own evidence contradicted your statement.

 

[iceberg]

If this was factual the prices wouldn't have plummeted after people demanded something be done.

What do you mean? People demanded something be done. What they did, was allow a competitor into the market. Logically with more competition, prices dropped.

IF they allowed even more competition, like Europe, prices would drop more.

The market is reacting exactly as expected given the level of free-market capitalism the government allowed.

When the government allowed very little... the prices went up.
As the government allowed a little more... the prices went down.

Once you research everything that affected Epipen, the market is behaving exactly as anyone with a thinking mind, would expect it too.

Obviously you were not paying attention. This was Senator Manchin's daughter and living in WV it was front page. It was nothing but pure greed. Manchin wasn't even able to defend it.

That isn't relevant to my point.

In a free-market capitalist system, alternatives to EpiPen would be on the market. Assuming that the information is accurate, that epinephrine has been around since 1906, that is not patented, that it costs 10 cents to synthesize, and if the hospital I posted above, can in fact make EpiPen alternatives for just $25 for a pack....

Then someone somewhere should have been able to offer cheaper alternatives to Mylon, for a fraction of the price, decades ago, and make millions doing so.

There is only one possible explanation for why this was not done. The market is not a free-market capitalist system, because the government regulations, and controlling agencies, has prevented people from entering the market.

In my research, there were a total of 5 different alternatives to the EpiPen operating elsewhere in the world. One from Canada, Sweden, and a few others.

Now that should give you a clue, that the Free-market Capitalist system works, when it is allowed to do so.

Because... the EpiPen was already cheaper in Europe, than in the US, and yet cheaper alternatives popped up in Europe in price competition, when the product is more expensive here. Obviously if the product is more expensive in the US, then there is a greater profit potential for cheaper alternatives here.

Then why was there no cheaper alternatives here in the US for decades?

Again.. the answer is obvious. Left-wing socialist regulations and controls prevented the introduction of alternatives.

Senator Manchin's daughter has nothing to do with that. Government controls and socialist regulations and agencies like the FDA prevented the introduction of alternatives.

Who, between the right-wing and left-wing, generally is in favor of more regulations and controls? And who is in favor of reducing regulations and controls?

Obviously left-wingers are the ones in favor of government control. Then after giving government control, the left-wing wants to complain that people in government use that control in their favor, like Senator Manchin's daughter.

Well, you can whine about Senator Manchin's daughter, but the reality is, those who supported government control in the first place, are the ones to blame for Senator Manchin's daughter being able to engage in whatever they did.

This is just like Hugo Chavez's daughter. So under Chavez, the government was directly involved in food markets. Not only did they enact price controls, but they also themselves started buying and distributing food. Of course after they ruined the market, that resulted in the biggest supplier of food, being the government. Hugo Chavez's daughter, setup a front company outside the country, to keep profits from rice from Argentina, at greatly increased prices, paid for by the Venezuelan people.
Hugo Chávez's Favorite Daughter Implicated In Argentinian Rice Corruption Scandal

Again, how was this able happen? Because in a free-market, where rice was sold at stores at voluntary prices, no one would be forced to pay excessive prices for rice from only one company left in the market.

Well obviously, because the public voted for Hugo Chavez, which destroyed the market, and the result was a monopoly that Hugo Chavez's daughter could exploit.

Ayn Rand has a great video on Youtube, about the two kinds of Capitalism. And specifically talks about this exact situation with EpiPen, and the Rice in Venezuela, all the way back in 50s or whenever this talk happened.



So once again, you can scream and yell about the companies, but ultimately it's the left-wingers and socialists that are to blame for everything.

The free market capitalists do not want free market capitalism to work. I've said all along that I will go right along the day the Fed is shut down. Until that happens there is no use in even discussing it.

So you make up stuff, and then say there is no use in even discussion it, after discussing it for 16 pages or more.

you people....

He talks in circles. each piece may seem different to him but he never seems to see the wake of contradictions he leaves behind.

 

[pknopp]

What do you mean? People demanded something be done. What they did, was allow a competitor into the market. Logically with more competition, prices dropped.

IF they allowed even more competition, like Europe, prices would drop more.

The market is reacting exactly as expected given the level of free-market capitalism the government allowed.

When the government allowed very little... the prices went up.
As the government allowed a little more... the prices went down.

Once you research everything that affected Epipen, the market is behaving exactly as anyone with a thinking mind, would expect it too.

Obviously you were not paying attention. This was Senator Manchin's daughter and living in WV it was front page. It was nothing but pure greed. Manchin wasn't even able to defend it.

That isn't relevant to my point.

In a free-market capitalist system, alternatives to EpiPen would be on the market. Assuming that the information is accurate, that epinephrine has been around since 1906, that is not patented, that it costs 10 cents to synthesize, and if the hospital I posted above, can in fact make EpiPen alternatives for just $25 for a pack....

Then someone somewhere should have been able to offer cheaper alternatives to Mylon, for a fraction of the price, decades ago, and make millions doing so.

There is only one possible explanation for why this was not done. The market is not a free-market capitalist system, because the government regulations, and controlling agencies, has prevented people from entering the market.

In my research, there were a total of 5 different alternatives to the EpiPen operating elsewhere in the world. One from Canada, Sweden, and a few others.

Now that should give you a clue, that the Free-market Capitalist system works, when it is allowed to do so.

Because... the EpiPen was already cheaper in Europe, than in the US, and yet cheaper alternatives popped up in Europe in price competition, when the product is more expensive here. Obviously if the product is more expensive in the US, then there is a greater profit potential for cheaper alternatives here.

Then why was there no cheaper alternatives here in the US for decades?

Again.. the answer is obvious. Left-wing socialist regulations and controls prevented the introduction of alternatives.

Senator Manchin's daughter has nothing to do with that. Government controls and socialist regulations and agencies like the FDA prevented the introduction of alternatives.

Who, between the right-wing and left-wing, generally is in favor of more regulations and controls? And who is in favor of reducing regulations and controls?

Obviously left-wingers are the ones in favor of government control. Then after giving government control, the left-wing wants to complain that people in government use that control in their favor, like Senator Manchin's daughter.

Well, you can whine about Senator Manchin's daughter, but the reality is, those who supported government control in the first place, are the ones to blame for Senator Manchin's daughter being able to engage in whatever they did.

This is just like Hugo Chavez's daughter. So under Chavez, the government was directly involved in food markets. Not only did they enact price controls, but they also themselves started buying and distributing food. Of course after they ruined the market, that resulted in the biggest supplier of food, being the government. Hugo Chavez's daughter, setup a front company outside the country, to keep profits from rice from Argentina, at greatly increased prices, paid for by the Venezuelan people.
Hugo Chávez's Favorite Daughter Implicated In Argentinian Rice Corruption Scandal

Again, how was this able happen? Because in a free-market, where rice was sold at stores at voluntary prices, no one would be forced to pay excessive prices for rice from only one company left in the market.

Well obviously, because the public voted for Hugo Chavez, which destroyed the market, and the result was a monopoly that Hugo Chavez's daughter could exploit.

Ayn Rand has a great video on Youtube, about the two kinds of Capitalism. And specifically talks about this exact situation with EpiPen, and the Rice in Venezuela, all the way back in 50s or whenever this talk happened.



So once again, you can scream and yell about the companies, but ultimately it's the left-wingers and socialists that are to blame for everything.

The free market capitalists do not want free market capitalism to work. I've said all along that I will go right along the day the Fed is shut down. Until that happens there is no use in even discussing it.

So you make up stuff, and then say there is no use in even discussion it, after discussing it for 16 pages or more.

you people....

He talks in circles. each piece may seem different to him but he never seems to see the wake of contradictions he leaves behind.

I get it. Trump's all out Socialism is embarrassing you.