Palestinian Talks, lectures, & interviews.

[P F Tinmore]

RE: Palestinian Talks, lectures, & interviews.
SUBTOPIC: Opposing View to Palestine Talks
⁜→ P F Tinmore and Company
(OPENING)

In the last 80 years, the concept of terrorism and its uses has expanded enormously. The two basic perceptions (the general population holds) of terrorism are (1) "CREDIBLE THREAT" and (2) the use of violence to the degree that it is a "CRIMINAL."

1938 Terrorist Convention
View attachment 1011612

(COMMENT)

Article 17 International Covenant on Civil and Political Rights (ICCPR)​

2. Everyone has the right to the protection of the law against such interference or attacks.

Article 20. International Covenant on Civil and Political Rights​

1. Any propaganda for war shall be prohibited by law.

2. Any advocacy of national, racial, or religious hatred that constitutes incitement to discrimination, hostility, or violence shall be prohibited by law.

Principles of International Law Concerning Friendly Relations and Co-operation among States

Every State has the duty to refrain in its international relations from the threat or use of force against the territorial integrity or political independence of any State, or in any other manner inconsistent with the purposes of the United Nations.

Recalling the duty of States to refrain in their international relations from military, political, economic, or any other form of coercion aimed against the political independence or territorial integrity of any State,


(COMMENT)

Well, that is a matter that has yet to be determined.

Article 1. Montevideo Convention on Rights and Duties of States. December 26, 1933.​

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The state as a person of international law should possess the following qualifications: a) a permanent population; b) a defined territory; c) government; and d) capacity to enter into relations with the other states.​

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Article 2. Montevideo Convention on Rights and Duties of States. December 26, 1933.​

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The federal state shall constitute a sole person in the eyes of international law.​

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Article 3. Montevideo Convention on Rights and Duties of States. December 26, 1933.​

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The political existence of the state is independent of recognition by the other states. Even before recognition the state has the right to defend its integrity and independence, to provide for its conservation and prosperity, and consequently to organize itself as it sees fit, to legislate upon its interests, administer its services, and to define the jurisdiction and competence of its courts.​

There are over 30 countries in the European Union. The European Union represents the body that establishes the authority behind the EU System of Law and adjudication and the EU Council.

Most Respectfully,
R

Nice duck.

BTW, where is Israel's defined territory?

 

[P F Tinmore]

In the last 80 years, the concept of terrorism and its uses has expanded enormously. The two basic perceptions (the general population holds) of terrorism are (1) "CREDIBLE THREAT" and (2) the use of violence to the degree that it is a "CRIMINAL."

Load of hooey. It is just political name calling typical of colonial projects.

 

[P F Tinmore]

There are over 30 countries in the European Union. The European Union represents the body that establishes the authority behind the EU System of Law and adjudication and the EU Council.

That is only about 7% of the world. Only the countries who bend over for Israel.

 

[P F Tinmore]

the use of violence to the degree that it is a "CRIMINAL."

Again, what might those be?

 

[P F Tinmore]

Germany tosses crumbs at Gaza while arming Israel and Ukraine to the teeth​

 

[RoccoR]

RE: Palestinian Talks, lectures, & interviews.
SUBTOPIC: Opposing View to Palestine Talks
⁜→ P F Tinmore, et al,

(OPENING)

Some questions are asked just for embossing purposes. I'm not quite sure what the purpose of this set of questions. I suppose (not knowing for sure) what the protocol is in the case of the I don't suppose that the Israel Prosecutor will charge the Islamic Resistance fighters with terrorism, but the Israelis could if they wanted (under Article 68 of the Fourth Geneva convention.

Again, what might those be?

(COMMENT)

I suspect that there are many many more terrorist events by the Islamic Resistance Movement (HAMAS). This list is an excerpt from the Global Terrorism Database (GTD) from May 2019 - 2020. Rocket and Mortar attacks are excluded from the first list.

The next set of incidents is related exclusively to Rocket and Mortar.

I apologize for the split presentation here and the minimal period covered., I assure you that it is representative of the truth. There simply more attacks going back into history and moving forward to the present.

Most Respectfully,
R

 

[P F Tinmore]

RE: Palestinian Talks, lectures, & interviews.
SUBTOPIC: Opposing View to Palestine Talks
⁜→ P F Tinmore, et al,

(OPENING)

Some questions are asked just for embossing purposes. I'm not quite sure what the purpose of this set of questions. I suppose (not knowing for sure) what the protocol is in the case of the I don't suppose that the Israel Prosecutor will charge the Islamic Resistance fighters with terrorism, but the Israelis could if they wanted (under Article 68 of the Fourth Geneva convention.

View attachment 1011941
View attachment 1011934

(COMMENT)

I suspect that there are many many more terrorist events by the Islamic Resistance Movement (HAMAS). This list is an excerpt from the Global Terrorism Database (GTD) from May 2019 - 2020. Rocket and Mortar attacks are excluded from the first list.

View attachment 1011945

The next set of incidents is related exclusively to Rocket and Mortar.

View attachment 1011955
View attachment 1011954
View attachment 1011952

I apologize for the split presentation here and the minimal period covered., I assure you that it is representative of the truth. There simply more attacks going back into history and moving forward to the present.

Most Respectfully,
R

The main question was about the settlers: Are they civilians or not? According to the Geneva Accord they are not. Even according to the Israelis they are not.
In 2003 we went to Cairo. The Egyptians asked whether Hamas is ready to stop the martyrdom operations or not. We gave the Egyptians a better offer. We were ready to have an agreement to stop targeting civilians [on] both sides. The army is supposed to fight, but civilians should be out of it. The Egyptians agreed and passed it on to the Israelis.


Ariel Sharon sent Efraim Halevi, who was the head of Shin Bet at the time. The Egyptians, who were the mediators, negotiated with Halevi. When we reached the definition of civilians, we accepted the definition put forward by the Geneva Accord. The Israelis were surprised, as they did not expect that. We said that the settlers are not civilians and the answer was, yes, they are not.

A Dialogue with Hamas - Part 1 - Worldpress.org

Hamas leader Ousama Hamdan discusses the resistance movement, the Hebron attacks, and Hamas' relationships with Islamic Jihad, Islamic groups in Gaza, and Syria.

www.worldpress.org

So then, where do you get this terrorist canard?

 

[Sherlock Holmes]

Norman Finkelstein: Everything you know about Israel is wrong​

Some of the comments:

About 10 years ago, I went to a movie theater here in the states and, while waiting in line, got into a conversation with one of the young ticket takers. I learned he was a dual citizen of the US/Israel and he was of age to go into the Israeli military and said he was looking forward to it so "I can kill some Palestinians." That's an exact quote. My wife and I were stunned.

My cousin went to a conference in Israel years ago and took a tour. The guide took the group to the wall with Palestine and told them to take a good look at the animals not humans on the other side. That is all we need to know. But the atrocities go on--45 killed in refugee camp today

Lived in Boston in the 80s and had a Jewish friend that visited Israel. He said that they were the rudest people he’d ever encountered. Hubris and arrogance have been the downfall of many people throughout history and many have thought they too were chosen by g-d.

These facts that Dr Finkelstein brings up about Israeli society are totally true. I visited Israel back in 2003 and spent a lot of time in the West Bank. It was truly an apartheid society. Palestinians and Israelis on the West Bank bank lived in completely different areas. Palestinians could only travel on certain roads and walk on certain streets. Otherwise, they would be arrested. Israelis treated the Palestinians like dirt. It reminded me of how blacks were treated in the Old South. It was disturbing and things have gotten a lot worse since then!

I used to run a cafe in north India where 1000s of young Israelis would come and spend months traveling after they finished their service. To say that they thought Palestinians were sub human would be an understatement. They openly talked about killing or driving them all out of greater Israel. They were pretty vile characters and this was before Oct 7.

 

[Sherlock Holmes]

Gaza: Watch George Galloway's incredible interview with Laura Loomer​

 

[RoccoR]

RE: Palestinian Talks, lectures, & interviews.
SUBTOPIC: The Settlers of the West Bank
⁜→ P F Tinmore, et al,

It sounds like it should be a matter that is relatively easy to answer.

The main question was about the settlers: Are they civilians or not? According to the Geneva Accord they are not. Even according to the Israelis they are not.

(COMMENT)

Both sides of the question can agree with the other - yet not follow and use this agreed position. And yet! Neither side practices the agreed-upon position when it becomes time to implement it outside the political environment.

In 2003 we went to Cairo. The Egyptians asked whether Hamas is ready to stop the martyrdom operations or not. We gave the Egyptians a better offer. We were ready to have an agreement to stop targeting civilians [on] both sides. The army is supposed to fight, but civilians should be out of it. The Egyptians agreed and passed it on to the Israelis.

So then, where do you get this terrorist canard?

(COMMENT)

Terrorism is not like a game on the sports field. Terrorism is a sinister appearance that is executed to spread fear and apprehension. Yes, the soccer game on the field has rules that both sides agree upon. But the game fans in the parking lot may set car bombs and the game fans may activate suicide bombers. The game fans may use the ambulances to maneuver through the traffic and may have a cache of weapons in the hospital. But the next day the photos by the news media with still images portraying the government's rough handling of unarmed civilians unacceptable. And the civilians will again be apprehensive about attending the next game.

This is just a very thin and shot backstory to answer the question. And in the last quarter century, the will be many on both sides of the issue(s) who have had harrowing experiences that have inspired fear that will last a lifetime.

Just My Thought,

Most Respectfully,
R

 

[P F Tinmore]

RE: Palestinian Talks, lectures, & interviews.
SUBTOPIC: The Settlers of the West Bank
⁜→ P F Tinmore, et al,

It sounds like it should be a matter that is relatively easy to answer.


(COMMENT)

Both sides of the question can agree with the other - yet not follow and use this agreed position. And yet! Neither side practices the agreed-upon position when it becomes time to implement it outside the political environment.



(COMMENT)

Terrorism is not like a game on the sports field. Terrorism is a sinister appearance that is executed to spread fear and apprehension. Yes, the soccer game on the field has rules that both sides agree upon. But the game fans in the parking lot may set car bombs and the game fans may activate suicide bombers. The game fans may use the ambulances to maneuver through the traffic and may have a cache of weapons in the hospital. But the next day the photos by the news media with still images portraying the government's rough handling of unarmed civilians unacceptable. And the civilians will again be apprehensive about attending the next game.

This is just a very thin and shot backstory to answer the question. And in the last quarter century, the will be many on both sides of the issue(s) who have had harrowing experiences that have inspired fear that will last a lifetime.

Just My Thought,

Most Respectfully,
R

You always dance around my point.

Hamas does not attack protected persons, i.e. civilians, as defined by the Geneva Accords.

Hamas only acts within Palestine's international borders.

Hamas has the legal right to fight against foreign domination by any means necessary including armed struggle.

The terrorist label is no more than political name calling.

 

[P F Tinmore]

"A society built on the ashes of another will always be violent" w/ Yara Hawari​

 

[RoccoR]

RE: Palestinian Talks, lectures, & interviews.
SUBTOPIC: The Settlers of the West Bank
⁜→ P F Tinmore, et al,

You always dance around my point.

Hamas does not attack protected persons, i.e. civilians, as defined by the Geneva Accords.

Hamas only acts within Palestine's international borders.

Hamas has the legal right to fight against foreign domination by any means necessary including armed struggle.

The terrorist label is no more than political name calling.

(COMMENT)

The concept that the Hostile Arab Palestinians (HoAP) hold in the determination of their borders total has long past - overtaken been overtaken by Political-Military (POL-MIL) events.

The Land of Palestine:

2. Palestine, which extends from the River Jordan in the east to the Mediterranean in the west and from Ras Al-Naqurah in the north to Umm Al-Rashrash in the south, is an integral territorial unit.
SOURCE: Document of General Principle & Policies

If this were true, the Hashemite Kingdom would be in Jeopardy. The entire Levant (plus much more) was taken by the Allied Powers after the Ottoman Empire fell following the Great War (World War I).

No matter what the unproductive, disruptive, fanatical, irrational, and HoAP that have wormed their way through time say today, the territory and the people were under the control of the Allied Powers. The political control of the Levant was in the hands of the Allied Powers.

.

​

I do not believe I danced around anything.

You always dance around my point.

Hamas only acts within Palestine's international borders.

Hamas has the legal right to fight against foreign domination by any means necessary including armed struggle.

(COMMENT)

There is no country called Gaza.
There is no (as described by the Islamic Resistance) as Palestine.
And Israel did not invade the Gaza Territory. It was the HoAP that invaded Israel.
.

You always dance around my point.

Hamas does not attack protected persons, i.e. civilians, as defined by the Geneva Accords.

.
(COMMENT)

The hell you say! It takes the deaf, dumb, and blind to look at the actions of the Islamic Resistance during the invasion, and Mayhem and say that the Islamic Resistance demonstrated honesty, integrity, and demonstrated any form of sound moral judgment in regards to the protections afforded by the Fourth Geneva Convention (GCIV).

Like I said before. The HoAP may say they recognize the values of the Humanitarian Laws and the GCIV. But they do not implement them.

Most Respectfully,
R

 

[Shusha]

Hamas does not attack protected persons, i.e. civilians, as defined by the Geneva Accords.

I understand your legal position with respect to the other comments on your post (not that I agree with them).

But where are you getting this?

 

[P F Tinmore]

I understand your legal position with respect to the other comments on your post (not that I agree with them).

But where are you getting this?

https://www.un.org/en/genocideprevention/documents/atrocity-crimes/Doc.33_GC-IV-EN.pdf

Right of peoples to self-determination - GA resolution - Question of Palestine

35/35. Importance of the universal realization of the right of peoples to self-determination and of the speedy granting of independence to colonial countries and peoples for the effective guarantee and observance of human rights A The General Assembly, Recalling its resolutions 2649 (XXV) of 30...

www.un.org

The 4 Armistice Agreements.

 

[Shusha]

https://www.un.org/en/genocideprevention/documents/atrocity-crimes/Doc.33_GC-IV-EN.pdf

Right of peoples to self-determination - GA resolution - Question of Palestine

35/35. Importance of the universal realization of the right of peoples to self-determination and of the speedy granting of independence to colonial countries and peoples for the effective guarantee and observance of human rights A The General Assembly, Recalling its resolutions 2649 (XXV) of 30...

www.un.org

The 4 Armistice Agreements.

Is there a specific Article you would refer me to?

 

[Shusha]

Specifically, I'm looking for some sort of legal argument for how Kfir and Ariel Bibas are not considered protected persons.

 

[P F Tinmore]

Specifically, I'm looking for some sort of legal argument for how Kfir and Ariel Bibas are not considered protected persons.

All other people held in occupied territory are protected by the Fourth Geneva Convention (GC IV), apart from very few exceptions, such as the nationals of the occupying power or its allies.

 

[P F Tinmore]

The concept that the Hostile Arab Palestinians (HoAP) hold in the determination of their borders total has long past - overtaken been overtaken by Political-Military (POL-MIL) events.

No they haven't.

link?