Pass a test to use a protected right?

What Are Our "Rights"?

You hear an awful lot about our "rights" these days. And justly so-- our rights, in this country, are our most valuable possession, outside of life itself. And some people say that our basic rights, are even more important than life. When Patrick Henry defiantly told the British government during colonial times, "Give me liberty or give me death!", he was stating that he considered a life without liberty, to be worse than no life at all (death).

So, what are our rights?

The Declaration of Independence mentions a few, and implies that there are others. So does the Constitution-- in fact, it names many, and categorically states that those aren't the only rights people have.

The Declaration says that among our rights, are "Life, Liberty, and the Pursuit of Happiness". It also says that these were given to us "by [our] Creator". Take that as you will, depending on whatever religious outlook you hold. But one of the implications is that, wherever our rights came from, they were NOT granted us by government, or by our fellow men at all. We had them long before government existed. And these various government documents simply say that government cannot take them away or interfere with them.

Here we refer, of course, only to normal law-abiding citizens. The Constitution contains the phrase "except by due course of law" in many places. If you rob someone, assault him, destroy his property, murder him etc., then you can legitimately be deprived of liberty (you go to jail), property (you get fined), or even life in some extreme cases (Death Penalty). Outside of such lawbreaking, your rights are held inviolate.

But today, our "rights" seem to be multiplying without end. This is not necessarily bad-- as we said, rights are extremely valuable. But, are we getting ahead of ourselves, granting to ourselves so many things under the name of "rights"?

"Old Rights"

Some are pretty indisputable, such as the ones mentioned in the Declaration. The ones mentioned in the Constitution, especially in the first ten Amendments (which was even called the "Bill of Rights" by its authors), are similarly vital... though they seem to be undergoing a methodical erosion. Freedom of religion, right to peaceably assemble, freedom of speech and of the press, the right to keep and bear arms, etc. all are very basic, and it is scary to think of trying to exist in a country in which any of these do not exist.

New "rights"

But lately we have heard about other "rights", such as the right to work, the right to decent medical treatment, the right to a decent standard of living. These all sound salutary-- what kind of society would we have, if working for a living were forbidden, decent health care were forbidden, etc.?

But there is a big gap between "forbidden" and "compulsory". The rights found in the country's founding documents, are compulsory, to the extent that we all have them whether we want them or not (who wouldn't want them?), and no one can take them away.

What about, say, the right to decent medical treatment? Those who favor this "right", point out that they don't necessarily mean the rare, exotic, super-expensive treatments; nor "elective" procedures such as cosmetic liposuction or a luxury suite in the hospital. They usually mean that, if you get sick or injured, you have the "right" to have a doctor look at you, make sure the problem isn't unusually dangerous, and administer the routine treatments needed to help you on the way back to good health. An absence of such routine treatment, could occasionally put your life in peril, obviously-- a simple broken bone could lead to infection if untreated, and possibly far more. But there are differences between the "Old Rights", as we've called the ones in the founding documents, and these "New 'Rights'".

Your "right to life" protects something that no man gave you-- you simply had it, from the day you were born. Nobody had to go to extraordinary effort to create it for you, outside of natural processes that move forward on their own without deliberate effort or guidance by humans, government, etc.

Same with the "right to liberty". You were your own man, as it were, the day you were born. Nobody had to go to special effort to create that status for you. In fact, they would have had to go to considerable effort to take those things away, by deliberately coming to you and killing you; or by building a jail and imprisoning you etc. If they leave you alone, you have life and liberty, and can pursue happiness. They have to work at it to deprive you of those things.

The Difference in the "New 'Rights'"

But this isn't the case with what we've called "New 'Rights'". In order for you to get the kind of routine medical treatment its advocates describe, somebody has to stop what he is doing and perform work for you-- the doctor who examines you, the clerk who sets up your appointment, the people who built the office or hospital where you get treatment.

If this routine medical treatment is to be called a "right" on par with our "Old Rights", doesn't that mean that you must be given it when needed? And doesn't it follow, then, that others must be compelled to do the normal things needed to treat you?

Uh-oh.

How does this compulsion upon those others (doctors, clerks etc.) fit in with THEIR rights? They "have" to treat you? What if their schedules are full-- do they have to bump another patient to make room for you? What if they were spending precious quality time with their families-- do they have to abandon their own kids, to fulfill your "right" to treatment that only they can give? Doesn't this fit the description of "involuntary servitude"?

This is an important difference between the rights envisioned by the country's founders, and the new "rights" advocated by more modern pundits. In order to secure your "old rights", people merely had to leave you alone... do nothing to bother you. in fact, they were required to. But these new so-called "rights", required that people go out of their way to actively contribute to you.

And that "requirement", in fact violates THEIR rights-- specifically, their right to liberty. They must be left free to live their lives as THEY chose-- free from compulsion to come and help you out. If they want to help you, that's fine-- often it's the decent and moral thing to do. But they cannot be forced to help you, no matter how much you need the help.

These new "rights", are in fact not rights at all. They are obligations upon others, imposed on them without their agreement or consent.

Beware of announcements that you have the "right" to this or that. Ask yourself if this "right", forces someone else to do something for you, that he didn't previously agree to. If it does, it's not a "right" possessed by you. It's an attempt by the announcer, to force others into servitude... an attempt, in fact, to violate the others' rights.
 
The Supreme Court has already ruled that is UNCONSTITUTIONAL and illegal. So anyone suggesting we require some sort of test before buying a firearm, you are not making either a reasonable or legal suggestion.
Wrong.

Requiring one to pass a test, such as the the gun safety course required in the District of Columbia, is in fact Constitutional:

“The court upheld other parts of the law, such as requiring gun owners to be fingerprinted and photographed and to complete a safety training course.”

Appeals court strikes down parts of DC's gun laws

And the law does require the applicant to pass the test, albeit open book:

“Take and pass a brief multiple-choice and true/false test based on information on DC’s firearms laws and regulations provided in this guide and the online training course. To pass, you must correctly answer at least 70 percent of the questions. The exam is designed to ensure that registrants are familiar with basic but essential information about firearms safety and laws. Applicants are allowed to refer to this guide while taking the test.”

Firearm Registration: Complete Registration Procedures | mpdc

You may not like it or agree with it, and consider it to be ridiculous and pointless, but it is Constitutional.

You might want to update your information, it's a bit dated...and conflicts with the latest rulings in DC, I believe.
 
BTW, if I flunk whatever test they require for me to buy a gun, or I refuse to take the test on grounds that they have no authority to test me, and they then deny me the right to buy one, they are flatly violating the 2nd amendment.
 
Frankly and with all sincerity, I don't care. December marks the 16th anniversary of Columbine and it marks the fact we have done nothing....at all. Reasonable people could have had a national discussion, but we haven't, lawmakers could have had hearings but we didn't, the gun problem can be boiled down to the basic fact that it is now at the intersection of crazy and easy, all magnified by the media fear that without a gun you surely will be a victim.

The gun problem is a human problem, we could fix it but we don't want to. So if government gets all big and bad over this problem just remember we could have done something once and now others may do it for you. Next time don't wait or let others do your talking for you.

Thank you for your mostly honest post. The claim the media fear mongers that you will be a victim w/o the right to bear arms is a complete and utter lie since we both know your leftist stations demand our rights be taken every time there is a shooting but say nothing when someone does defend themselves.

But thanks for showing your hatred of the Constitution and ignorance of why we have rights.

Of course you argue from the point of opinion so I'll take it with a grain of salt. I honestly never heard a leftist station of any kind demand that rights be taken away. I don't hate gun rights nor do I hate the constitution. I hate laziness and the inability to fix a problem that has grown worse and if that means you lose rights you only have yourself to blame for never showing at the table.

It's kinda hard to hear when you have your head up your ass.

FYI cupcake, I did my terms in elected office "at the table"...at the big boy table even. Don't recall seeing you there. I hate posers.

The only way you were at the big boy table was when your mommy was hand feeding you with a rubber spoon.

Keep telling yourself that, sweetie...if it makes you feel better.
 
Thank you for your mostly honest post. The claim the media fear mongers that you will be a victim w/o the right to bear arms is a complete and utter lie since we both know your leftist stations demand our rights be taken every time there is a shooting but say nothing when someone does defend themselves.

But thanks for showing your hatred of the Constitution and ignorance of why we have rights.

Of course you argue from the point of opinion so I'll take it with a grain of salt. I honestly never heard a leftist station of any kind demand that rights be taken away. I don't hate gun rights nor do I hate the constitution. I hate laziness and the inability to fix a problem that has grown worse and if that means you lose rights you only have yourself to blame for never showing at the table.
Of course you argue from the point of opinion so I'll take it with a grain of salt. I honestly never heard a leftist station of any kind demand that rights be taken away. thats a lie, it's impossible to watch the news and not know. I don't hate gun rights nor do I hate the constitution. clearly a lie, your statements make it clear. I hate laziness and the inability to fix a problem that has grown worse and if that means you lose rights you only have yourself to blame for never showing at the table this statement proves you have our Constitution and have no grasp of why we have the 2nd.

Well now you're arguing crazy. We are going to have peace in this country and I don't care what rights you have that get trampled. You had a chance to talk, you had a chance to introduce your own rules or law, you chose nothing. You hunkered down and said we need to arm every one. I'm simple tired of it. I am a gun owner, I have taught my children how to handle guns, but I want some sanity back in this country and we let an evil go on and have done nothing about it. You have an opportunity to get out in front of this to control the conversation. If you don't others will make decisions for you. That shouldn't be hard to understand. If you want your rights get out and talk, left wing, right wing, we are part of the same eagle. you know?
So you have no respect for Constitutional rights??

OK, let's establish an IQ test for voting, to eliminate the idiots...

If we do, a Democrat won't be able to get elected dog catcher...

Nap time Bedowin you're falling flat.
Why???

Check the OP.

If it takes a "test" for one Constitutional right, it can take one for ANY of them.....

Otherwise, the only answer is stricter laws for gun crime


Use a gun in a crime, get an extended stay in prison




Actually shoot someone, get life...


Kill someone, FRY!!!
 
When will they realize, that countries with more guns per citizen, like Canada, still don't have higher gun violence rates.

It's an easy reacton to have...stop the guns! and stop the shootings....

But it'll never stop crazy people from getting guns.

I only wish one of those Umpqua CC students that carry would have gotten a clean shot off. If they would have, we'd be having a whole different conversation
 
I think the Left needs to stop pretending they want to just ban "assault weapons" and start admitting they want to ban all guns.


But you know what? I think if we banned all guns, it would have almost no impact on the homicide or suicide rate.

We don't have a problem with guns in America. We have a problem with violence.

We are descended from a special breed of people. The kind who can't sit still. The kind who want to go and go and go. The kind who blasted their way across a continent, and once we reached the opposite side, we couldn't stop blasting. Now we turn on ourselves and each other.
This is a lie.

'The left' has no desire whatsoever to 'ban' all guns – the notion is unfounded idiocy.

Liberals accept Heller as settled and accepted jurisprudence, liberals are themselves gun owners, and liberals have no interest in enacting additional regulatory measures inconsistent with that settled, accepted jurisprudence.
 
BTW, if I flunk whatever test they require for me to buy a gun, and they then deny me the right to buy it, they are flatly violating the 2nd amendment.

Yet another contradiction in their wacky ideology (if that is what you want to call it),. It's OK to take a test to exercise your right to bear arms, but it's not ok to take a test to exercise your "right". to vote. Imagine if we required them to take a test to talk or write in public...yeah, that would go over well. :lol:
 
You want to violate the law because of a minor problem? What next? Sorry but the Government won't be free to do anything they want because there are 300 million firearms in private hands. if only 3 percent resist that is a huge number of people armed and ready to fight to resist tyranny.

Here's a stat that may surprise you. 87,000 dead since Sandy Hook, 142 school shootings since Sandy Hook(Dec 2012), the government has all the power and if you think 300 million weapons is going to make a dent in their superior firepower you never served in the military.

That bogus number includes suicides and accidents...but I think you already knew that. I will tell you this from the sad experience of my own boy...just cuz you don't have a gun doesn't stop you from taking your own life (after you already tried once with a gun), nor does it guarantee that you won't die from some other kind of accident.

I also don't really like military posers like you. If you had served and actually learned your craft, you would know how TOTALLY STUPID your "make a dent in their superior firepower" BS is. What were you, a cook? You sure as hell have little knowledge of military history, strategy and tactics.

So death by gun suicide isn't a problem? you're a charlatan. People like you that have a greased up m60's and think that it is the best thing since pink lemonade are confused. The government blocks your cell phones, cuts power, stops gas deliveries, stops train deliveries, impedes travel between states, and in just a few days half the population is roaming the streets looking for food. You may have stockpiles, but you'll be busy fighting off your neighbor for them. Meanwhile, drones clean up, they don't even have to engage you to weaken you. I'm sorry, but whatever power you thought you had over the federal government is a pipe dream.

Where did I say that death by suicide wasn't a problem? How about addressing what I say, rather than what you wish I said. It's what people who have been to the table do...you might want to learn it yourself if you ever find a high chair.

My son committed suicide you moron...yeah, I take it kind of seriously, no matter what means they use. Using your wacky logic I should respond "So death by suicide of any means isn't a problem"...it's just about as stupid and dishonest, which seems to be your MO.
 
We banned booze......we got bootleggers. (Al Capone)

We banned drugs........we got drug kingpins. (Lucky Luciano)

Does any sound thinking person believe we should ban guns???
 
All our rights have some limitations . They are not limitless .

Even free speech . You can't go yelling your head off at 2am .
 
Pass a citizenship test for citizenship, then pass a gun-ownership test for gun-ownership, whether a natural born citizen or not. It can be lawfully accomodated.
Our mass killings are out of control and it is totally un-American not to think out-of-the-box towards rectifying this issue.
We can keep our 2nd amendment rights and elevate public safety, too!
Alright! I'm open to your suggestions how we can do that.
 
You want to violate the law because of a minor problem? What next? Sorry but the Government won't be free to do anything they want because there are 300 million firearms in private hands. if only 3 percent resist that is a huge number of people armed and ready to fight to resist tyranny.

Here's a stat that may surprise you. 87,000 dead since Sandy Hook, 142 school shootings since Sandy Hook(Dec 2012), the government has all the power and if you think 300 million weapons is going to make a dent in their superior firepower you never served in the military.
If you think the military will stand with the government you never served in the military.
There isn't going to be an armed insurrection.

And if there was, the military would stand with the government. I say that as a retired vet.
As a retired vet, I say differently. I spent long years of my life defending the Constitution and the rights it so succinctly catalogs. We have the right, no an obligation, to defend ourselves, even from...or more exactly, specifically from an out-of-control government.
 
'The left' has no desire whatsoever to 'ban' all guns – the notion is unfounded idiocy.

Nice semantics game...you are correct, it's not about left or right, it's about statists and what statists do because, well, they're statists. A statist's number one priority is the perpetuation of the State...and people running around fairly well armed is a threat to their ability to perpetuate the State if the citizens have other notions. Statists also love order and control.

I personally know of many statists serving in government at all levels who make no bones about their wish to disarm all Americans, other than perhaps for rimfire and maybe shotguns...long as you register them and pay a tax (statists love revenue even more than they love order and control). Obviously they only admit this in private...or by mistake, and no I am not going to name names because that would be tacky and compromise my own intelligence gathering capabilities.
 
Frankly and with all sincerity, I don't care. December marks the 16th anniversary of Columbine and it marks the fact we have done nothing....at all. Reasonable people could have had a national discussion, but we haven't, lawmakers could have had hearings but we didn't, the gun problem can be boiled down to the basic fact that it is now at the intersection of crazy and easy, all magnified by the media fear that without a gun you surely will be a victim.

The gun problem is a human problem, we could fix it but we don't want to. So if government gets all big and bad over this problem just remember we could have done something once and now others may do it for you. Next time don't wait or let others do your talking for you.

Thank you for your mostly honest post. The claim the media fear mongers that you will be a victim w/o the right to bear arms is a complete and utter lie since we both know your leftist stations demand our rights be taken every time there is a shooting but say nothing when someone does defend themselves.

But thanks for showing your hatred of the Constitution and ignorance of why we have rights.

Of course you argue from the point of opinion so I'll take it with a grain of salt. I honestly never heard a leftist station of any kind demand that rights be taken away. I don't hate gun rights nor do I hate the constitution. I hate laziness and the inability to fix a problem that has grown worse and if that means you lose rights you only have yourself to blame for never showing at the table.

It's kinda hard to hear when you have your head up your ass.

FYI cupcake, I did my terms in elected office "at the table"...at the big boy table even. Don't recall seeing you there. I hate posers.

The only way you were at the big boy table was when your mommy was hand feeding you with a rubber spoon.

Keep telling yourself that, sweetie...if it makes you feel better.

So you call grown men sweetie, were you raised in a female dominant family? Just a question of course, nothing implied.
 
When will they realize, that countries with more guns per citizen, like Canada, still don't have higher gun violence rates.

It's an easy reacton to have...stop the guns! and stop the shootings....

But it'll never stop crazy people from getting guns.

I only wish one of those Umpqua CC students that carry would have gotten a clean shot off. If they would have, we'd be having a whole different conversation

It's like I've said repeatedly:

We have two parties in this country: One believes they can legislate mortality, and the other believes they can legislate morality. The truth is neither can really be legislated.

Every time people get killed in a spectacular way, Democrats believe they have to find a solution to the problem. Well guess what, there is no solution to the problem. It's going to continue no matter what you do.

Yesterday here in Cleveland a five month old was shot and killed. She is just one of several children shot and killed over the past month. Just prior to that, the city had their gun buy-back program. They would give people gift cards if they turned in their guns legal or not. No questions asked.

Well guess what, it didn't work very well.

"Liberals measure success by their intentions. Conservatives measure success by results."
Rush Limbaugh
 
'The left' has no desire whatsoever to 'ban' all guns – the notion is unfounded idiocy.

Nice semantics game...you are correct, it's not about left or right, it's about statists and what statists do because, well, they're statists. A statist's number one priority is the perpetuation of the State...and people running around fairly well armed is a threat to their ability to perpetuate the State if the citizens have other notions. Statists also love order and control.

I personally know of many statists serving in government at all levels who make no bones about their wish to disarm all Americans, other than perhaps for rimfire and maybe shotguns...long as you register them and pay a tax (statists love revenue even more than they love order and control). Obviously they only admit this in private...or by mistake, and no I am not going to name names because that would be tacky and compromise my own intelligence gathering capabilities.
Thank you for your mostly honest post. The claim the media fear mongers that you will be a victim w/o the right to bear arms is a complete and utter lie since we both know your leftist stations demand our rights be taken every time there is a shooting but say nothing when someone does defend themselves.

But thanks for showing your hatred of the Constitution and ignorance of why we have rights.

Of course you argue from the point of opinion so I'll take it with a grain of salt. I honestly never heard a leftist station of any kind demand that rights be taken away. I don't hate gun rights nor do I hate the constitution. I hate laziness and the inability to fix a problem that has grown worse and if that means you lose rights you only have yourself to blame for never showing at the table.

It's kinda hard to hear when you have your head up your ass.

FYI cupcake, I did my terms in elected office "at the table"...at the big boy table even. Don't recall seeing you there. I hate posers.

The only way you were at the big boy table was when your mommy was hand feeding you with a rubber spoon.

Keep telling yourself that, sweetie...if it makes you feel better.

So you call grown men sweetie, were you raised in a female dominant family? Just a question of course, nothing implied.

Nope, nice middle class blue collar urban family...dad was a cop, mom a housewife. Are you offended by being called sweetie, sweetie? It seems like you have some kind of problem with me using the term, since you are the one who saw fit to mention it. Are you an abortion survivor? Just a question, of course, nothing implied.
 
'The left' has no desire whatsoever to 'ban' all guns – the notion is unfounded idiocy.

Nice semantics game...you are correct, it's not about left or right, it's about statists and what statists do because, well, they're statists. A statist's number one priority is the perpetuation of the State...and people running around fairly well armed is a threat to their ability to perpetuate the State if the citizens have other notions. Statists also love order and control.

I personally know of many statists serving in government at all levels who make no bones about their wish to disarm all Americans, other than perhaps for rimfire and maybe shotguns...long as you register them and pay a tax (statists love revenue even more than they love order and control). Obviously they only admit this in private...or by mistake, and no I am not going to name names because that would be tacky and compromise my own intelligence gathering capabilities.
Of course you argue from the point of opinion so I'll take it with a grain of salt. I honestly never heard a leftist station of any kind demand that rights be taken away. I don't hate gun rights nor do I hate the constitution. I hate laziness and the inability to fix a problem that has grown worse and if that means you lose rights you only have yourself to blame for never showing at the table.

It's kinda hard to hear when you have your head up your ass.

FYI cupcake, I did my terms in elected office "at the table"...at the big boy table even. Don't recall seeing you there. I hate posers.

The only way you were at the big boy table was when your mommy was hand feeding you with a rubber spoon.

Keep telling yourself that, sweetie...if it makes you feel better.

So you call grown men sweetie, were you raised in a female dominant family? Just a question of course, nothing implied.

Nope, nice middle class blue collar urban family...dad was a cop, mom a housewife. Are you offended by being called sweetie, sweetie? It seems like you have some kind of problem with me using the term, since you are the one who saw fit to mention it. Are you an abortion survivor? Just a question, of course, nothing implied.

No, as I said nothing implied. I was just curious over the anomaly, I'm sorry that it struck an obvious nerve.
 

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