Passion of the Christ: Most Beautiful Love Story of all time

[JBeukema]

I gave her a list some time ago of problems with her story. She never refuted any of them.

 

[N4mddissent]

that and his last words were why GOD HAVE YOU FORSAKEN ME THEN IT WAS FORGIVE THEM MY FATHER FOR THEY DONT KNOW WHAT THEY DO. i know the pain he went throuh and why he did it you dont have to understand you dont have to know. I know where i'm going in the end and that is all that matters. And one person that made news went to go see that movie he had killed somone and after waching that movie he turn himself in. And others became christians after that movie.

That's his last words in Luke. In Matthew and Mark it is, "my god, my god, why have you forsaken me". In John it is, "It is finished". They don't agree. Just like they don't agree on the time or the day. In the synoptics, the last supper is the passover meal. In John it states the passover meal had not been eaten. John also states that it was the 6th hour (noon) when Jesus was crucified, while mark says the 3rd hour (around 9:00).

N4, you have many witnesses that recorded what they either heard themselves or were told. None of them disagree, it's just different words heard by different people.

lol and if they all said they heard the very same thing at the same time, you would claim they were all copying each other.

And would you please post the scripture locations that you're talking about? Would appreciate it thanks...or are you using the same internet lists that JB uses?

Why don't you two come up with ONE problem you have with the Bible instead of slapping a list up without paying any attention to the responses? I don't have time to go on your wild rabbit chases. I'll do my best to answer. There are some mysteries, there are some things we're not supposed to know, but most of these kinds of posts are just anything you can slap up from an internet source.

Pick ONE please, and stand by it.

Personally I prefer to use the Holman Christian Standard translation. But it is convenient while online to use the Bible Gateway (which has the Holman) or the NET bible. The Gateway is searchable.

I don't need them to say the same thing to believe they copied each other. I think for the most part they did copy each other. At least I'm pretty sure Matthew copied from Mark. You state they all heard different things, so that alone brings into question the reliability of their accounts.

The reason for slapping up lists of problems is that it points out the silliness of the mental acrobatics of apologetics. Excusing away one discrepency could be accepted. But coming up with explanations for all of these discrepencies at once makes it sound like what it is- making excuses. And these are just a tiny portion of discrepencies with just the crucifixion account. It's not like I listed all of the discrepencies in the gospels.

I didn't notice any responses, but I'll go back and check. I know many of the apologetics and find them woefully unconvincing, especially when taken as a whole.

Finally, if witnesses in court stated different accounts of what someone said before they
died we would most definitely say their accounts disagree. It's not as if Luke says he stated "my god, my god,..." and then stated "Father, into your hands..." or John includes either of the other two statements. These are the last words of a man they believed was the messiah and the son of the one true god. They managed to agree on many of his sermons and parables, but the last words uttered as he was executed just weren't that important to get right. We end up with 3 completely different, non-overlapping accounts of everything he said from the time he was crucified until he died. Bullocks. They put down what they needed him to say to get across the particular message the author was trying to present.

Just like they tried to shoehorn his geneology so that Matthew and Luke don't agree. And don't tell me one was the geneology of Mary. She was a Levite and not of the line of David. Matthew can't even count the names in his own geneology. It was all an attempt to support their claims of Jesus as messiah.

 

[Anguille]

That's his last words in Luke. In Matthew and Mark it is, "my god, my god, why have you forsaken me". In John it is, "It is finished". They don't agree. Just like they don't agree on the time or the day. In the synoptics, the last supper is the passover meal. In John it states the passover meal had not been eaten. John also states that it was the 6th hour (noon) when Jesus was crucified, while mark says the 3rd hour (around 9:00).

N4, you have many witnesses that recorded what they either heard themselves or were told. None of them disagree, it's just different words heard by different people.

lol and if they all said they heard the very same thing at the same time, you would claim they were all copying each other.

And would you please post the scripture locations that you're talking about? Would appreciate it thanks...or are you using the same internet lists that JB uses?

Why don't you two come up with ONE problem you have with the Bible instead of slapping a list up without paying any attention to the responses? I don't have time to go on your wild rabbit chases. I'll do my best to answer. There are some mysteries, there are some things we're not supposed to know, but most of these kinds of posts are just anything you can slap up from an internet source.

Pick ONE please, and stand by it.

Personally I prefer to use the Holman Christian Standard translation. But it is convenient while online to use the Bible Gateway (which has the Holman) or the NET bible. The Gateway is searchable.

I don't need them to say the same thing to believe they copied each other. I think for the most part they did copy each other. At least I'm pretty sure Matthew copied from Mark. You state they all heard different things, so that alone brings into question the reliability of their accounts.

The reason for slapping up lists of problems is that it points out the silliness of the mental acrobatics of apologetics. Excusing away one discrepency could be accepted. But coming up with explanations for all of these discrepencies at once makes it sound like what it is- making excuses. And these are just a tiny portion of discrepencies with just the crucifixion account. It's not like I listed all of the discrepencies in the gospels.

I didn't notice any responses, but I'll go back and check. I know many of the apologetics and find them woefully unconvincing, especially when taken as a whole.

Finally, if witnesses in court stated different accounts of what someone said before they
died we would most definitely say their accounts disagree. It's not as if Luke says he stated "my god, my god,..." and then stated "Father, into your hands..." or John includes either of the other two statements. These are the last words of a man they believed was the messiah and the son of the one true god. They managed to agree on many of his sermons and parables, but the last words uttered as he was executed just weren't that important to get right. We end up with 3 completely different, non-overlapping accounts of everything he said from the time he was crucified until he died. Bullocks. They put down what they needed him to say to get across the particular message the author was trying to present.

Just like they tried to shoehorn his geneology so that Matthew and Luke don't agree. And don't tell me one was the geneology of Mary. She was a Levite and not of the line of David. Matthew can't even count the names in his own geneology. It was all an attempt to support their claims of Jesus as messiah.

Expect one of these :

There are some mysteries, there are some things we're not supposed to know,

 

[renoite]

I gave her a list some time ago of problems with her story. She never refuted any of them.

The reason is.. YOU don't have any vaild things to say.

 

[renoite]

NO ONE can prove GOD is not real. The point I was trying to make rather or not You think he is real the movie was a good movie rated 7 stars out of 10.

 

[AllieBaba]

The point I was trying to make is that I can safely guss your not a christian because those who are not tend to bash on us christians and think its no big deal how jesus died or why he died. So I never said anything about you.

Another thing I wanted to say about this. I didn't "bash" christians. And when you say I don't think it's a big deal how or why Jesus died, I would ask you to consider that I was the one who questioned why Jesus had to die when he had the power to forgive without being tortured. I think that is a big deal. You were the one who said it was okay not to understand why.

You can't know the mind of God, and you won't. The error is thinking you can and should.

The fact is, everything we do, everything that goes on in the world, is part of a Plan. And that plan is hidden from humans. You don't get it because you aren't supposed to yet. That's what the bible says.

What is so frustrating is that so many ignore what the bible says, and sneer at Christians for not applying their own desires, their own logic, to the bible and essentially rebeling against it. Well, if they did, they wouldn't be believers, and they wouldn't be saved. The bible tells us everything we need to know...and foremost is to trust God.

You either do or you don't. But there's something supremely evil in people who don't believe and who aren't saved minimizing the beliefs of those who do and are.

 

[JenT]

You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to N4mddissent again

Bummer, dude

Jen, if you don't even know your own holy book, then you should not speak about it.

Nobody knows it as well as we could, the Holy Spirit is always revealing new things in it to us, it's the Living Word

 

[JenT]

AwSOME MOVIE OWN IT. Very sad and it touched my heart I agree with you that I always knew GOD sent his only son to die for my sins. But I never thought how bad he went through till I Wached this movie. Yes it is just a movie but it is what really happend to him. Not going to wast my time with those bashing the lord. Because your a wast of time if you dont think he is real then so be it. But you dont have to bash us that do its a choice. You have yours and I have we have ours.

cryed at that part they beat him nearly to death and he had to carry his own cross. The other criminal's didn't get that kind of treatment. The only reason why jesus did was because he was calling him self KING of his people son of GOD. Think what you wish apone our faith the great thing about it. is you can't take it away. You can do anything you want. To try to destroy our love for GOD.

The movie told a great story the bio. Of jesus and what he did for his son's and daughter's even for those who have turn away from him. From those who bash his name. Those that taunt him. You will see in the end what us christians have been talking about when the world as we know it ends. Then maybe then you would think back and say I wish I would have listen or maybe not maybe hell is a better place for you and want to go I dont know your fate. But GOD does.

LOVE HIM OR NOT STAND UP AND BY HIM OR NOT CALL HIM YOUR HEAVENLY FATHER OR NOT. IT IS A CHOICE ONLY YOU CAN MAKE.

there are more GOD believers then none.... in the world

Yes, it was horrible but horrible was commonplace at the time. At least it was a fairly short period of suffering. How about Giordano Bruno. He was imprisoned, tortured and interrogated for about seven years before being found guilty. After being found guilty, an iron spike was shoved through his tongue and another was shoved through his palette- to silence his lying devil tongue. Then he was stripped and dragged through town and burned alive. Then, he didn't even get the decent burial of Jesus, his ashes were just dumped in a river.

This was because he refused to recant his personal dedication to his scientific beliefs and their implications and the church felt threatened. He made a sacrifice which was even more impressive than Jesus, since being divine meant that Jesus "knew" paradise would await him, but Bruno had no such assurances. Nevertheless he underwent all of these horrible things to stand up for the principles of scientific knowledge.

source?

 

[JenT]

You don't think Bruno was whipped while being tortured in prison for seven years? He was flogged and beaten and who knows what else. The inquisition was creative. SEVEN YEARS. All he had to do was say, "Everything in the bible is absolutely true, and I recant my beliefs in other solar systems, the infinite universe, and heliocentrism. Yet he endured torture for seven years. Nailing to a cross was horrible. But no more horrible than having an iron spike driven through your tongue and another through your palate. And Jesus didn't hang on the cross for weeks. According to Mark he was dead 6 hours after being crucified. And if he carried his cross all those miles, then the three synoptic gospels are false since they describe Simon carrying his cross for him.

And while it was no doubt bad, Jesus supposedly knew this was his entire purpose. He didn't have any other dreams to be taken from him since he knew he was destined for this end. Bruno probably had dreams and aspirations for the rest of his life. He had no way of knowing that his life would end with seven years of brutal torture and then be burned alive. I would take crucifixion over being burned alive. Being stripped and dragged through town was as humilating as the humiliations of Jesus and he too felt betrayed by his own countrymen who were murdering him.

Jesus suffering is overplayed to emphasize a certain theological framework. The movie "passion" is overhyped and biblically inaccurate just to spin a certain theological point of view. The crucifixion was nor more torturous than many incidents in the ancient world like Giordano Bruno who was tortured and killed by christians, or Hypatia of Alexandria the first female head of the great library, who was taken by christians, dragged naked through town to a christian church, had her skin flayed with bits of shell and pot shards, and then set ablaze. So excuse me if I don't find the suffering of Jesus a compelling argument for divinity nor a supreme example of sacrifice.

There was a lot of slaughtering from all sides. Those were gruesome times. Not so much of that known now but our fascination with torture on the silver screen is hardening the hearts of many.

I don't see what your point is though. No where in the Bible does it condone the torture of people. Men are evil, and if they enjoy evil all the more by claiming they are doing it in the name of God, doesn't mean it's so.

So all your complaints are ill founded without sources anyway.

 

[eagleseven]

AwSOME MOVIE OWN IT. Very sad and it touched my heart I agree with you that I always knew GOD sent his only son to die for my sins. But I never thought how bad he went through till I Wached this movie. Yes it is just a movie but it is what really happend to him. Not going to wast my time with those bashing the lord. Because your a wast of time if you dont think he is real then so be it. But you dont have to bash us that do its a choice. You have yours and I have we have ours.

cryed at that part they beat him nearly to death and he had to carry his own cross. The other criminal's didn't get that kind of treatment. The only reason why jesus did was because he was calling him self KING of his people son of GOD. Think what you wish apone our faith the great thing about it. is you can't take it away. You can do anything you want. To try to destroy our love for GOD.

The movie told a great story the bio. Of jesus and what he did for his son's and daughter's even for those who have turn away from him. From those who bash his name. Those that taunt him. You will see in the end what us christians have been talking about when the world as we know it ends. Then maybe then you would think back and say I wish I would have listen or maybe not maybe hell is a better place for you and want to go I dont know your fate. But GOD does.

LOVE HIM OR NOT STAND UP AND BY HIM OR NOT CALL HIM YOUR HEAVENLY FATHER OR NOT. IT IS A CHOICE ONLY YOU CAN MAKE.

there are more GOD believers then none.... in the world

Yes, it was horrible but horrible was commonplace at the time. At least it was a fairly short period of suffering. How about Giordano Bruno. He was imprisoned, tortured and interrogated for about seven years before being found guilty. After being found guilty, an iron spike was shoved through his tongue and another was shoved through his palette- to silence his lying devil tongue. Then he was stripped and dragged through town and burned alive. Then, he didn't even get the decent burial of Jesus, his ashes were just dumped in a river.

This was because he refused to recant his personal dedication to his scientific beliefs and their implications and the church felt threatened. He made a sacrifice which was even more impressive than Jesus, since being divine meant that Jesus "knew" paradise would await him, but Bruno had no such assurances. Nevertheless he underwent all of these horrible things to stand up for the principles of scientific knowledge.

source?

The Galileo Project | Christianity | Giordano Bruno

 

[JenT]

Passion of the Christ is a glorified snuff film. Not my bag thanks.

That's what I imagined it must be when I first heard about it.

I understand why it would seem that way to someone that doesn't comprehend that what Christ suffered was the payment of sin, which is death. It belonged to us.

Sacrificing your own life like that for others is an act of love.

And those who have received it and are washed clean are filled with gratitude and awe.

But to those that don't see it, well, I see what you hate it. Because what you saw was the penalty of sin.

And when the accuser comes around and says that's what I deserve, I'm happy to have Christ stand up for me. It rocks when people stick up for you. But to stick up for us and take on our payment...wow.

 

[eagleseven]

You don't think Bruno was whipped while being tortured in prison for seven years? He was flogged and beaten and who knows what else. The inquisition was creative. SEVEN YEARS. All he had to do was say, "Everything in the bible is absolutely true, and I recant my beliefs in other solar systems, the infinite universe, and heliocentrism. Yet he endured torture for seven years. Nailing to a cross was horrible. But no more horrible than having an iron spike driven through your tongue and another through your palate. And Jesus didn't hang on the cross for weeks. According to Mark he was dead 6 hours after being crucified. And if he carried his cross all those miles, then the three synoptic gospels are false since they describe Simon carrying his cross for him.

And while it was no doubt bad, Jesus supposedly knew this was his entire purpose. He didn't have any other dreams to be taken from him since he knew he was destined for this end. Bruno probably had dreams and aspirations for the rest of his life. He had no way of knowing that his life would end with seven years of brutal torture and then be burned alive. I would take crucifixion over being burned alive. Being stripped and dragged through town was as humilating as the humiliations of Jesus and he too felt betrayed by his own countrymen who were murdering him.

Jesus suffering is overplayed to emphasize a certain theological framework. The movie "passion" is overhyped and biblically inaccurate just to spin a certain theological point of view. The crucifixion was nor more torturous than many incidents in the ancient world like Giordano Bruno who was tortured and killed by christians, or Hypatia of Alexandria the first female head of the great library, who was taken by christians, dragged naked through town to a christian church, had her skin flayed with bits of shell and pot shards, and then set ablaze. So excuse me if I don't find the suffering of Jesus a compelling argument for divinity nor a supreme example of sacrifice.

There was a lot of slaughtering from all sides. Those were gruesome times. Not so much of that known now but our fascination with torture on the silver screen is hardening the hearts of many.

I don't see what your point is though. No where in the Bible does it condone the torture of people. Men are evil, and if they enjoy evil all the more by claiming they are doing it in the name of God, doesn't mean it's so.

So all your complaints are ill founded without sources anyway.

Jesus' execution was brutal, but par for the course at the time. Remember, these were the people who watched prisoners battle to the death for fun.

 

[eagleseven]

No-where does the Bible support torture? Are you unfamilliar with the story of Sodom and Gomorrah?

I don't know about you, but God's setting several thousand people on fire sounds like torture to me...

Thank you God, for setting me on fire! Your kindness endures forever!

 

[JenT]

OKAY THEN if jesus suffering is overplayed then so is this other guy. his death didnt matter he wasnt real. and after jesus couldnt carry his cross anymore another man was made to help him. Then worship giordano bruno I dont care. GOD IS MY GOD AND I WOULD GO THROUGH WHAT GIORDANO BRUNO WENT THROUGH BEFORE i SAY OTHER WISE. I have compassion for everyone no death is the same but still death the differnts between giordano and JESUS is JESUS WAS THE SON OF GOD SENT TO DIE FOR YOU FOR ME FOR GIRODANO BRUNO.

I never claimed to worship Bruno. I have no doubt you are committed to your belief. Bruno was most definitely a real person, and I don't believe my post indicated Jesus was not. My entire point is that Jesus' suffering is sometimes portrayed as some ultimate, unimaginable suffering, but there were many humans who underwent suffering equally and often more severe than the suffering described in the passion, without the benefit of certainty of their destiny nor a paradise awaiting after death.

Furthermore, Jesus' suffering was unnecessary since being all-powerful he could have forgiven the world without undergoing his torture. He could have avoided it by simply willing the sins of the world to be forgiven. The passion was superfluous. Or would you argue that he was not all-powerful?

God is loving but He is also JUST. And I think heaven is extremely complex. God will not just wink at sin. His goal is to become one with us, to indwell us, to communion with us. And if we are full of unrepentant sin, God will not mix with sin.

Because of Melchisedek I think there are beings in heaven that we don't comprehend yet. And they are watching the demonstration of God's majesty, justice, mercy and love.

 

[JenT]

Okay back to the movie. The movie was an awsome. I dont like subtitles but this movie was a great movie to wach. out of 10 stars it was rated a 7

Hi renoite, we haven't really met, nice posts, thanks! I enjoy your writing.

But on this one, I'd say it made 10 stars out of 10 stars. Those who rated it any less, well, it seems the ratings were either very high or very low and it balanced out in the middle.

But the movie broke box office records, and many saw it over and over again, it was a huge success worldwide, sort of just showed all the critics they were by far the mnority and biased.

 

[JenT]

that and his last words were why GOD HAVE YOU FORSAKEN ME THEN IT WAS FORGIVE THEM MY FATHER FOR THEY DONT KNOW WHAT THEY DO. i know the pain he went throuh and why he did it you dont have to understand you dont have to know. I know where i'm going in the end and that is all that matters. And one person that made news went to go see that movie he had killed somone and after waching that movie he turn himself in. And others became christians after that movie.

That's his last words in Luke. In Matthew and Mark it is, "my god, my god, why have you forsaken me". In John it is, "It is finished". They don't agree. Just like they don't agree on the time or the day. In the synoptics, the last supper is the passover meal. In John it states the passover meal had not been eaten. John also states that it was the 6th hour (noon) when Jesus was crucified, while mark says the 3rd hour (around 9:00).

Did you ever post which Scriptures you're getting this from?

 

[JenT]

You know, it's interesting how a movie like the passion likes to show vivid gory detail when doing so would support a particular point of view. I wonder if the christian community would be as accepting of a violent and bloody film showing children having their heads bashed against rocks, spilling their brains while animals, old men, and wives were butchered with knives at the command of Yahweh, sometimes followed by the caputure and enslavement of all the young virgins. Or perhaps a graphic depiction of the human sacrifice of Jepthah's daughter. Ritual sacrifice was pretty gruesome. Perhaps an exceedingly gory depiction of children being mauled by a bear sent by god because the children thought a prophet's bald head was funny. Instead of Moses declaring that the children should bring freedom to the people at the end of The Ten Commandments (which is not even close to what moses says in the bible), we could have the sequel show the genocidal extermination of hundreds of thousands of men, women, and children depicted in the bible while the Israelites claimed their "promised land". Don't cover it up. It's the word of god.

I'M going to make a safe guss and say that your not a christian. THE MOVIE WAS GREAT NONE CHRISTIANS WENT TO GO SEE THAT MOVIE. My uncle dont belieave in GOD and he thought it was a good movie. He sat down and wached it with me. But I bet you and among others wach scary moives with blood and killing and rape. Movies are made movies are wached but this Movie was made by a christian man. Lets say GOD isnt real still is a good movie rather or not he his. But in fact he is real.

Sadists all over the world thought it was a good movie. You can guess what you like about me, but it doesn't affect any points I've made. Primarily because whether I believe the events in the bible are true or not, I have presented my points using your premise that the bible is true. Your bet that I watch scary movies with blood, killing, and rape is completely baseless. I've made no wild assumptions about your nature, character, or what activities you engage in to make my points. I've been neither rude toward you personally nor have I disparaged you with unsupported projections. And the christian man who made that movie was also arrested for dui and made a large number of anti-semetic comments. I've never had a dui and I have never been anti-semetic. Yet you disparage me and praise him. Perhaps you should reconsider whether your basis of "christian" for determining the quality of an individual might not lead you to some erroneous conclusions.

How many sadists did you talk to? Most audiences I saw came out wiping the tears from their faces, completely touched and moved by what Christ did for us.

Sadists? I bet most didn't go anywhere near it.

 

[AllieBaba]

No-where does the Bible support torture? Are you unfamilliar with the story of Sodom and Gomorrah?

I don't know about you, but God's setting several thousand people on fire sounds like torture to me...

Thank you God, for setting me on fire! Your kindness endures forever!

That story is a classic example of God not torturing. He told Lot he would spare the city if ONE GOOD MAN could be found.

That night, citizens came to Lot's house to rape the angels who brought the news. God let loose.

 

[JenT]

You don't think Bruno was whipped while being tortured in prison for seven years? He was flogged and beaten and who knows what else. The inquisition was creative. SEVEN YEARS. All he had to do was say, "Everything in the bible is absolutely true, and I recant my beliefs in other solar systems, the infinite universe, and heliocentrism. Yet he endured torture for seven years. Nailing to a cross was horrible. But no more horrible than having an iron spike driven through your tongue and another through your palate. And Jesus didn't hang on the cross for weeks. According to Mark he was dead 6 hours after being crucified. And if he carried his cross all those miles, then the three synoptic gospels are false since they describe Simon carrying his cross for him.

And while it was no doubt bad, Jesus supposedly knew this was his entire purpose. He didn't have any other dreams to be taken from him since he knew he was destined for this end. Bruno probably had dreams and aspirations for the rest of his life. He had no way of knowing that his life would end with seven years of brutal torture and then be burned alive. I would take crucifixion over being burned alive. Being stripped and dragged through town was as humilating as the humiliations of Jesus and he too felt betrayed by his own countrymen who were murdering him.

Jesus suffering is overplayed to emphasize a certain theological framework. The movie "passion" is overhyped and biblically inaccurate just to spin a certain theological point of view. The crucifixion was nor more torturous than many incidents in the ancient world like Giordano Bruno who was tortured and killed by christians, or Hypatia of Alexandria the first female head of the great library, who was taken by christians, dragged naked through town to a christian church, had her skin flayed with bits of shell and pot shards, and then set ablaze. So excuse me if I don't find the suffering of Jesus a compelling argument for divinity nor a supreme example of sacrifice.

There was a lot of slaughtering from all sides. Those were gruesome times. Not so much of that known now but our fascination with torture on the silver screen is hardening the hearts of many.

I don't see what your point is though. No where in the Bible does it condone the torture of people. Men are evil, and if they enjoy evil all the more by claiming they are doing it in the name of God, doesn't mean it's so.

So all your complaints are ill founded without sources anyway.

Jesus' execution was brutal, but par for the course at the time. Remember, these were the people who watched prisoners battle to the death for fun.

Eagle, I know there are wickedly brutal things that can be done to a man, but can you imagine any that would bring a body to the point that it was not recognized as human? There were hours of unrecorded time that Jesus spent with the Roman soldiers, where what they did to him was probably unimaginable.

But what truly convinces me that no one went further than Christ is that I can't believe God would ask any of us to suffer what He, Himself, would not.

And what I think tormented Christ more than anything else was, once He BECAME sin (Scripture says so) He was separated from the Father for the first time in all eternity.

I don't think Satan held back any punches.

God went through it. He would not lay down His life for us, only to let one of His own suffer more than He volunteered Himself.

 

[JenT]

No-where does the Bible support torture? Are you unfamilliar with the story of Sodom and Gomorrah?

I don't know about you, but God's setting several thousand people on fire sounds like torture to me...

Thank you God, for setting me on fire! Your kindness endures forever!

Then the LORD rained brimstone and fire on Sodom and Gomorrah, from the LORD out of the heavens. 25 So He overthrew those cities, all the plain, all the inhabitants of the cities, and what grew on the ground.

None of us knows how long it took or how painful. The Bible doesn't say. not a way I would want to go but I can't think of any ways of death that I would, except Rapture.