Personal responsibility vs. Public safety net

[ThePickledPunk]

Anyone else notice how all the leftists here pounced on the punk about his handling of his medical bills while completely avoiding the premise of the thread?

Expanding the public safety net comes with some drawbacks you narrow-minded, misinformed fuckchops. Pretending otherwise just means you're stupid and/or intellectually dishonest.

Their misapprehension of my settlements and billing practices in general made me a convenient cop-out

 

[rightwinger]

mmmkay...I researched this a bit.

It is against federal law to charge different rates for the same procedure. However, the hospitals can and do offer discounts to insurance companies (I'm guessing to get them to steer patients to them). The uninsured aren't offered discounts because the hospitals need to make up their loss to the insurance companies.

And when they don't make up their losses, they raise prices.

So the PukingPunk is still a leach, the insurance companies suck and this doesn't take away from the argument that health care in this country is unaffordable for millions.

Healthcare is unaffordable for millions. But for approximately 200 million it is affordable.

Tell that to your employer. Millions of them are reducing or dropping coverage

 

[ThePickledPunk]

mmmkay...I researched this a bit.

It is against federal law to charge different rates for the same procedure. However, the hospitals can and do offer discounts to insurance companies (I'm guessing to get them to steer patients to them). The uninsured aren't offered discounts because the hospitals need to make up their loss to the insurance companies.

And when they don't make up their losses, they raise prices.

So the PukingPunk is still a leach, the insurance companies suck and this doesn't take away from the argument that health care in this country is unaffordable for millions.

Healthcare is unaffordable for millions. But for approximately 200 million it is affordable.

Tell that to your employer. Millions of them are reducing or dropping coverage

Gonna get a lot worse with a public option....

 

[rightwinger]

Healthcare is unaffordable for millions. But for approximately 200 million it is affordable.

Tell that to your employer. Millions of them are reducing or dropping coverage

Gonna get a lot worse with a public option....

Public option will offer a low cost option to keep costs low. To compete, private companies will have to provide better coverage

 

[Ravi]

And what insurance company? If it is true that all the insurance companies negotiate for discounts, how would the hospital decide what an insurance company that doesn't exist would charge?

I do know that whatever my insurance company doesn't pay, I must pay for myself or go without. No insurance company pays 100%

The providers settled with me for the amount customarily charged insurance companies for those services. My current insurance pays 100%

What company do you have?

 

[Ravi]

Anyone else notice how all the leftists here pounced on the punk about his handling of his medical bills while completely avoiding the premise of the thread?

Expanding the public safety net comes with some drawbacks you narrow-minded, misinformed fuckchops. Pretending otherwise just means you're stupid and/or intellectually dishonest.

Or the third option...your thread OP was boring.

 

[PatekPhilippe]

What kind of country do we want to be?

Do we want people begging in the streets to feed their children?
Do we want people sleeping in the streets?
Do we want people wandering among us carrying infectious disease?
Do we want people dying in the streets?

That is how third world countries operate. There is no "safety net" in third world countries. You live or die based on your lot in life.

We are the wealtiest country on earth. How do we want to be known based on our treatment of citizens?

Shouldn't we strive for the best?

I don't see that happening today. What country do you live in? Why do you liberals care so much about what everyone else thinks about us. Are you that fucking insecure? That much of a fucking crybaby that acceptance by your peers is more important than your own well being?

The fact is this. There are some needs that the government should provide for it's people but it shouldn't place an unnecessary burden on those people. This is the dilemma. Someone will always be pissed off that they didn't get what they wanted.

 

[PatekPhilippe]

mmmkay...I researched this a bit.

It is against federal law to charge different rates for the same procedure. However, the hospitals can and do offer discounts to insurance companies (I'm guessing to get them to steer patients to them). The uninsured aren't offered discounts because the hospitals need to make up their loss to the insurance companies.

And when they don't make up their losses, they raise prices.

So the PukingPunk is still a leach, the insurance companies suck and this doesn't take away from the argument that health care in this country is unaffordable for millions.

Healthcare is unaffordable for millions. But for approximately 200 million it is affordable.

Tell that to your employer. Millions of them are reducing or dropping coverage

No they're not.

 

[PatekPhilippe]

Tell that to your employer. Millions of them are reducing or dropping coverage

Gonna get a lot worse with a public option....

Public option will offer a low cost option to keep costs low. To compete, private companies will have to provide better coverage

BULLSHIT! You think the government option is going to be a cadillac plan? You're a fucking dumbass!!!!!!

 

[rightwinger]

What kind of country do we want to be?

Do we want people begging in the streets to feed their children?
Do we want people sleeping in the streets?
Do we want people wandering among us carrying infectious disease?
Do we want people dying in the streets?

That is how third world countries operate. There is no "safety net" in third world countries. You live or die based on your lot in life.

We are the wealtiest country on earth. How do we want to be known based on our treatment of citizens?

Shouldn't we strive for the best?

I don't see that happening today. What country do you live in? Why do you liberals care so much about what everyone else thinks about us. Are you that fucking insecure? That much of a fucking crybaby that acceptance by your peers is more important than your own well being?

The fact is this. There are some needs that the government should provide for it's people but it shouldn't place an unnecessary burden on those people. This is the dilemma. Someone will always be pissed off that they didn't get what they wanted.

Learn to read......."That is how third world countries operate. There is no "safety net" in third world countries. You live or die based on your lot in life."

 

[rightwinger]

Gonna get a lot worse with a public option....

Public option will offer a low cost option to keep costs low. To compete, private companies will have to provide better coverage

BULLSHIT! You think the government option is going to be a cadillac plan? You're a fucking dumbass!!!!!!

So why do you fear it so???

 

[Ravi]

And what insurance company? If it is true that all the insurance companies negotiate for discounts, how would the hospital decide what an insurance company that doesn't exist would charge?

I do know that whatever my insurance company doesn't pay, I must pay for myself or go without. No insurance company pays 100%

The providers settled with me for the amount customarily charged insurance companies for those services. My current insurance pays 100%

Also, what was the nature of your emergency back surgery? Emergency back surgery is rather rare, in fact I can only think of things that would take way more than $50,000 to fix.

Which one of these was yours and how did you get such good health coverage with a pre-existing condition?

When are Back Problems an Emergency?

 

[PatekPhilippe]

What kind of country do we want to be?

Do we want people begging in the streets to feed their children?
Do we want people sleeping in the streets?
Do we want people wandering among us carrying infectious disease?
Do we want people dying in the streets?

That is how third world countries operate. There is no "safety net" in third world countries. You live or die based on your lot in life.

We are the wealtiest country on earth. How do we want to be known based on our treatment of citizens?

Shouldn't we strive for the best?

I don't see that happening today. What country do you live in? Why do you liberals care so much about what everyone else thinks about us. Are you that fucking insecure? That much of a fucking crybaby that acceptance by your peers is more important than your own well being?

The fact is this. There are some needs that the government should provide for it's people but it shouldn't place an unnecessary burden on those people. This is the dilemma. Someone will always be pissed off that they didn't get what they wanted.

Learn to read......."That is how third world countries operate. There is no "safety net" in third world countries. You live or die based on your lot in life."

Your post insinuates that this is or could become the case here in America. I think you are wrong. We all know you think the government is here to give you something for nothing....just admit it...it will make you feel better about yourself and gain you a coddled acceptance by your left wing loon peers.

 

[PatekPhilippe]

Public option will offer a low cost option to keep costs low. To compete, private companies will have to provide better coverage

BULLSHIT! You think the government option is going to be a cadillac plan? You're a fucking dumbass!!!!!!

So why do you fear it so???

What's there to fear? It will not pass!

 

[rightwinger]

I don't see that happening today. What country do you live in? Why do you liberals care so much about what everyone else thinks about us. Are you that fucking insecure? That much of a fucking crybaby that acceptance by your peers is more important than your own well being?

The fact is this. There are some needs that the government should provide for it's people but it shouldn't place an unnecessary burden on those people. This is the dilemma. Someone will always be pissed off that they didn't get what they wanted.

Learn to read......."That is how third world countries operate. There is no "safety net" in third world countries. You live or die based on your lot in life."

Your post insinuates that this is or could become the case here in America. I think you are wrong. We all know you think the government is here to give you something for nothing....just admit it...it will make you feel better about yourself and gain you a coddled acceptance by your left wing loon peers.

I never said it could happen here. America, as a whole, has compassion, unlike some who post on this message board

 

[nodoginnafight]

IF you paid only what an insurance company would have paid - then who paid the typical deductibiles and co-pays?

Little light starting to come on now?

But given your history of flipping and flopping, dishonesty, and diversionary vulgarities, I have absolute no reason to believe that you have related an actual occurance with any degree of accuracy or with any understanding of what was actually going on.

You have zilch for credibility
You have lost your argument
You have demonstrated a limited capacity for understanding or depth
You have bored me beyond tears

Have a great day

sorry, fishmonger, but the doctor would have charged insurance 9k for my procedure. That is what I paid. Deductibles and copays are irrelevant. Bottom line- if i had insurance, the providers would not have gotten one cent more than they ended up receiving. If they would have charged insurance 9k, and insurance would have only paid 7k, leaving me to pay the other 2k- would that have made you happy? Because it would not have made a difference to the providers...

You have amused me with your foolish pursuit of a vilifying argument, when the reality is that I paid more than most in my situation would have, with or without insurance. Of course- being a leftist- you do not believe in personal responsibility. Which explains your position.

The deductibles and copays "are irrelevant"?????
Why are they "irrelevant"? It is because that's the part (at the very least) that you stuck everyone else with and you very much need to ignore those costs to hang onto your illusion of "personal responsibility?"

You see, I believe in REAL personal responsibility - not some figment of some hypocrite's imagination.

 

[Oldandtired]

Learn to read......."That is how third world countries operate. There is no "safety net" in third world countries. You live or die based on your lot in life."

Your post insinuates that this is or could become the case here in America. I think you are wrong. We all know you think the government is here to give you something for nothing....just admit it...it will make you feel better about yourself and gain you a coddled acceptance by your left wing loon peers.

I never said it could happen here. America, as a whole, has compassion, unlike some who post on this message board

Yes, America, as a whole, has compassion.

Such compassion is why many who can not do for themselves, have others assist them.
Interestingly, we are looking at the way other countries, that we are proud to be above in social issues, handle their healthcare and we want to emulate it.

And by the way...simple math...

4% profit...steady for years...yet premiums go up every year by double digit percentages.

Call me nuts.....but maybe the issue is finding why costs are rising and fix THAT issue? Afterall, OBVIOUSLY the government is going to have the same problem....

But of course...THAT is not written in....."we will do what profit comnpanies have not been able to do....keep costs down".....really? And exactly how?

That is coming from an administeation that spent $303,000 to create a $45,000 job...and called it a SUCCESS!

 

[judyd]

Your post insinuates that this is or could become the case here in America. I think you are wrong. We all know you think the government is here to give you something for nothing....just admit it...it will make you feel better about yourself and gain you a coddled acceptance by your left wing loon peers.

I never said it could happen here. America, as a whole, has compassion, unlike some who post on this message board

Yes, America, as a whole, has compassion.

Such compassion is why many who can not do for themselves, have others assist them.
Interestingly, we are looking at the way other countries, that we are proud to be above in social issues, handle their healthcare and we want to emulate it.

And by the way...simple math...

4% profit...steady for years...yet premiums go up every year by double digit percentages.

Call me nuts.....but maybe the issue is finding why costs are rising and fix THAT issue? Afterall, OBVIOUSLY the government is going to have the same problem....

But of course...THAT is not written in....."we will do what profit comnpanies have not been able to do....keep costs down".....really? And exactly how?

That is coming from an administeation that spent $303,000 to create a $45,000 job...and called it a SUCCESS!

A big reason the costs are going up is because when an individual has health insurance, he doesn't usually question the cost. He knows what his deductible is, and that's all he is concerned with, so the providers can charge higher and higher amounts. If a person's insurance covers medications, he usually won't bother to shop around for the lowest price.

Also, when people have insurance, they tend to visit the doctor for everything--many times for conditions like colds which will usually go away on their own. And hypochondriacs can really drive up the costs. How many of us have worked with people who seem to go to the doctor for obscure complaints that never really turn out to be anything? They drive up the costs for everyone.

 

[Oldandtired]

I never said it could happen here. America, as a whole, has compassion, unlike some who post on this message board

Yes, America, as a whole, has compassion.

Such compassion is why many who can not do for themselves, have others assist them.
Interestingly, we are looking at the way other countries, that we are proud to be above in social issues, handle their healthcare and we want to emulate it.

And by the way...simple math...

4% profit...steady for years...yet premiums go up every year by double digit percentages.

Call me nuts.....but maybe the issue is finding why costs are rising and fix THAT issue? Afterall, OBVIOUSLY the government is going to have the same problem....

But of course...THAT is not written in....."we will do what profit comnpanies have not been able to do....keep costs down".....really? And exactly how?

That is coming from an administeation that spent $303,000 to create a $45,000 job...and called it a SUCCESS!

A big reason the costs are going up is because when an individual has health insurance, he doesn't usually question the cost. He knows what his deductible is, and that's all he is concerned with, so the providers can charge higher and higher amounts. If a person's insurance covers medications, he usually won't bother to shop around for the lowest price.

Also, when people have insurance, they tend to visit the doctor for everything--many times for conditions like colds which will usually go away on their own. And hypochondriacs can really drive up the costs. How many of us have worked with people who seem to go to the doctor for obscure complaints that never really turn out to be anything? They drive up the costs for everyone.

Your first paragraph is completely incorerect. It is proven that profits are NOT the driving factor of inurance premiums going up seeing as the profit in the industry has been pretty level for years...at about 4%

And exactly what is going to change with your second paragraph with the government getting involved? Or are you agreeing that we, the people, will be told by someone in an office many miles away whether or not we are ill enough to go see a doctor?

 

[ThePickledPunk]

IF you paid only what an insurance company would have paid - then who paid the typical deductibiles and co-pays?

Little light starting to come on now?

But given your history of flipping and flopping, dishonesty, and diversionary vulgarities, I have absolute no reason to believe that you have related an actual occurance with any degree of accuracy or with any understanding of what was actually going on.

You have zilch for credibility
You have lost your argument
You have demonstrated a limited capacity for understanding or depth
You have bored me beyond tears

Have a great day

sorry, fishmonger, but the doctor would have charged insurance 9k for my procedure. That is what I paid. Deductibles and copays are irrelevant. Bottom line- if i had insurance, the providers would not have gotten one cent more than they ended up receiving. If they would have charged insurance 9k, and insurance would have only paid 7k, leaving me to pay the other 2k- would that have made you happy? Because it would not have made a difference to the providers...

You have amused me with your foolish pursuit of a vilifying argument, when the reality is that I paid more than most in my situation would have, with or without insurance. Of course- being a leftist- you do not believe in personal responsibility. Which explains your position.

The deductibles and copays "are irrelevant"?????
Why are they "irrelevant"? It is because that's the part (at the very least) that you stuck everyone else with and you very much need to ignore those costs to hang onto your illusion of "personal responsibility?"

You see, I believe in REAL personal responsibility - not some figment of some hypocrite's imagination.

No, you dont. Because nobody was stuck covering any out of pocket expenses I might have incurred. I paid the providers what they would have received if I had insurance- not just what insurance might have paid. Your desire to vilify me has overtaken your ration. You are a typical lefty- incapable of thinking in the face of emotional hysteria. Nice try though, Muffintop.