Personally Opposed to Homosexuality?... Judge OK's Expulsion from College...

[Yurt]

The judge saw all the available evidence and issued a summary judgment. Do you understand how rarely judges do that, and how much it actually says about the merit of her case?

i don't think it goes to the merits of her case, rather, the strong opinion of the judge in this matter... what is interesting, is that this is a 48 page summary judgment...that is rare...but technically you are correct about the merits, i just voiced my opinion about the judge

the judge made good arguments and cited good case law, but i am not sure this will stand upon review, especially the summary judgment part...it is possible an appellate court will hear this de novo, unlikely...but will shall see

I haven't actually read the opinion myself, but you are correct that a 48 page order is unusual. I will take your word for it that the judge seems to be biased, but the way I read case law he is also right. This is a pretty simple issue of a student not meeting graduation requirements. Being a Christian myself I admire her principles, but she does not have a right to be exempted from course requirements.

and if i was in her shoes, i would have no problem counseling any homosexual....liars are immoral, people who have sex before marriage are immoral etc...but i am not her...and i have long ago given up the immoral bullshit and realized that jesus wasn't about that (but that is just my belief). that doesn't demean her beliefs as some have tried to do in this thread by saying she is the only christian or whatever objecting to this.....

the way this opinion stands...unless you go to a christian school, you cannot get your practicum to practice.....as our public schools should not endorse christian only principles, neither should our schools endorse only non christian principles.....

this has been the catch 22

 

[Quantum Windbag]

Nope, QWB, she is being punished for her beliefs. The appeal will consider all matters, including the internal memoranda of the faculty and administration, and it will find in the student's favor. A tax-supported institution may never audit a student's religious beliefs as correct or incorrect.

She is not being punished, she is just not being allowed to complete a class that she refuses to participate in.

 

[Valerie]

hey valerie.....here is the hearing and guess what....there was talk about the remediation as alleged:




http://blog.mlive.com/annarbornews_impact/2009/04/EMUhearing_transcript.pdf

care to change your mind that they were not forcing her to alter her beliefs?

Nope, they were merely asking her to alter her behavior and belief system as it relates to the degree requirements, not alter her religious beliefs.

Other Christians managed to pass the program, just not THIS Christian.

so they want her to alter her behavior and her belief system, which she has because of her christian beliefs, but its not about her christian beliefs

Oh my bad, I didn't realize bigotry was a religion.

 

[Valerie]

i don't think it goes to the merits of her case, rather, the strong opinion of the judge in this matter... what is interesting, is that this is a 48 page summary judgment...that is rare...but technically you are correct about the merits, i just voiced my opinion about the judge

the judge made good arguments and cited good case law, but i am not sure this will stand upon review, especially the summary judgment part...it is possible an appellate court will hear this de novo, unlikely...but will shall see

I haven't actually read the opinion myself, but you are correct that a 48 page order is unusual. I will take your word for it that the judge seems to be biased, but the way I read case law he is also right. This is a pretty simple issue of a student not meeting graduation requirements. Being a Christian myself I admire her principles, but she does not have a right to be exempted from course requirements.

and if i was in her shoes, i would have no problem counseling any homosexual....

liars are immoral, people who have sex before marriage are immoral etc...but i am not her...and i have long ago given up the immoral bullshit and realized that jesus wasn't about that (but that is just my belief).


that doesn't demean her beliefs as some have tried to do in this thread by saying she is the only christian or whatever objecting to this.....

the way this opinion stands...unless you go to a christian school, you cannot get your practicum to practice.....as our public schools should not endorse christian only principles, neither should our schools endorse only non christian principles.....

this has been the catch 22

I wasn't trying to demean her religion by comparing her to other Christians. I consider myself Christian. It's not true that Christians don't obtain counseling degrees.

It is not her religion that is the real issue, it's her inability to get over her individual sense of moral superiority to even have a counseling session with people who happen to be gay as a credit requirement toward a counseling degree.

Since you like the hypothetical...Pick any other issue a Christian might feel morally superior to their client over and ask the same questions. How can she become certified in a counseling program when she refuses to counsel her clientele?

 

[Quantum Windbag]

i don't think it goes to the merits of her case, rather, the strong opinion of the judge in this matter... what is interesting, is that this is a 48 page summary judgment...that is rare...but technically you are correct about the merits, i just voiced my opinion about the judge

the judge made good arguments and cited good case law, but i am not sure this will stand upon review, especially the summary judgment part...it is possible an appellate court will hear this de novo, unlikely...but will shall see

I haven't actually read the opinion myself, but you are correct that a 48 page order is unusual. I will take your word for it that the judge seems to be biased, but the way I read case law he is also right. This is a pretty simple issue of a student not meeting graduation requirements. Being a Christian myself I admire her principles, but she does not have a right to be exempted from course requirements.

and if i was in her shoes, i would have no problem counseling any homosexual....liars are immoral, people who have sex before marriage are immoral etc...but i am not her...and i have long ago given up the immoral bullshit and realized that jesus wasn't about that (but that is just my belief). that doesn't demean her beliefs as some have tried to do in this thread by saying she is the only christian or whatever objecting to this.....

the way this opinion stands...unless you go to a christian school, you cannot get your practicum to practice.....as our public schools should not endorse christian only principles, neither should our schools endorse only non christian principles.....

this has been the catch 22

The thing is that even if it had been me a few years ago I do not think I would have had a problem talking to a depressed homosexual and not telling them that they are depressed because they are homosexual, which is about all a student counselor would be required to do. I have counseled in church and generally have no problem with separating a persons sin from their emotions. She doesn't have to affirm homosexuality to talk to a depressed teen who needs help, even if that teen is a homosexual.

 

[Valerie]

I haven't actually read the opinion myself, but you are correct that a 48 page order is unusual. I will take your word for it that the judge seems to be biased, but the way I read case law he is also right. This is a pretty simple issue of a student not meeting graduation requirements. Being a Christian myself I admire her principles, but she does not have a right to be exempted from course requirements.

and if i was in her shoes, i would have no problem counseling any homosexual....liars are immoral, people who have sex before marriage are immoral etc...but i am not her...and i have long ago given up the immoral bullshit and realized that jesus wasn't about that (but that is just my belief). that doesn't demean her beliefs as some have tried to do in this thread by saying she is the only christian or whatever objecting to this.....

the way this opinion stands...unless you go to a christian school, you cannot get your practicum to practice.....as our public schools should not endorse christian only principles, neither should our schools endorse only non christian principles.....

this has been the catch 22

The thing is that even if it had been me a few years ago I do not think I would have had a problem talking to a depressed homosexual and not telling them that they are depressed because they are homosexual, which is about all a student counselor would be required to do. I have counseled in church and generally have no problem with separating a persons sin from their emotions. She doesn't have to affirm homosexuality to talk to a depressed teen who needs help, even if that teen is a homosexual.

Yeah, I don't see anywhere where the school is requiring the content of her counsel...She just flat out refused to meet with them at all.

Regardless of WHO she is assigned to counsel, the issue here was not HOW she would counsel them, only WHETHER she would counsel them.

 

[Coyote]

I am pretty sure that counselors are required to get counseling to make sure that they do not allow personal problems to affect their professional work. That means I would say that the school is doing a good job in allowing a student to opt out of counseling people if they feel overwhelmed.

I think homophobic counselors should let potential clients know that they cannot counsel gays and lesbians.

Anyone that doesn't want to counsel gays and lesbians shouldn't counsel gays and lesbians.

Isn't this a win-win for counselors and queers?

The issue isn't who she chooses to counsel when she is a professional - once you are accredited, you can always refer a patient to someone who you feel might be better able to handle their issues.

But she is not accredited. And in order to get that degree she must show she can handle a variety of clients.

It's no different then a dental degree. They may choose to specialize in one particular area, but prior to that they go through a rotation in each of the dental specialties. They can't opt out of any particular area.

Why should this student be given preferential treatment?

 

[bodecea]

I think homophobic counselors should let potential clients know that they cannot counsel gays and lesbians.

Anyone that doesn't want to counsel gays and lesbians shouldn't counsel gays and lesbians.

Isn't this a win-win for counselors and queers?

The issue isn't who she chooses to counsel when she is a professional - once you are accredited, you can always refer a patient to someone who you feel might be better able to handle their issues.

But she is not accredited. And in order to get that degree she must show she can handle a variety of clients.

It's no different then a dental degree. They may choose to specialize in one particular area, but prior to that they go through a rotation in each of the dental specialties. They can't opt out of any particular area.

Why should this student be given preferential treatment?

Because she can be a martyr if she isn't given preferential treatment?

 

[Wicked Jester]

Yurt your the faggot talking about guys cock to dodge the issue. How is substituting the right answer with a religious answer not wrong.

Excuse me but, who's side are you on?......The homosexuals who wouldn't be counseled?

Just curious?

 

[Wicked Jester]

I think homophobic counselors should let potential clients know that they cannot counsel gays and lesbians.

Anyone that doesn't want to counsel gays and lesbians shouldn't counsel gays and lesbians.

Isn't this a win-win for counselors and queers?

The issue isn't who she chooses to counsel when she is a professional - once you are accredited, you can always refer a patient to someone who you feel might be better able to handle their issues.

But she is not accredited. And in order to get that degree she must show she can handle a variety of clients.

It's no different then a dental degree. They may choose to specialize in one particular area, but prior to that they go through a rotation in each of the dental specialties. They can't opt out of any particular area.

Why should this student be given preferential treatment?

So, a homosexual student should be FORCED to counsel someone who may believe that all homosexuals should be shot in the head?

Your dental school analogy is absolutely ludicrous.

 

[mal]

I consider myself Christian. It's not true that Christians don't obtain counseling degrees.

So then you Believe that Homosexuality is a Sin and shouldn't be Embraced?



peace...

 

[manifold]

She probably should've just said she can't counsel queers because she's worried about catching the aids. That probably would've worked.

The bottom line folks is choices have consequences. Always have, always will. Choose wisely.

 

[Valerie]

I consider myself Christian. It's not true that Christians don't obtain counseling degrees.

So then you Believe that Homosexuality is a Sin and shouldn't be Embraced?



peace...

Not at all.

It's not true that counseling by professional standards requires anyone to "embrace" homosexuality or give up their religious beliefs.

mal often tries to make things up to prove a point that doesn't exist.

Yes, I see that now...

 

[Samson]

Like what, for example?

Do you think the many problems that may plague a homosexual are identical to those that may bother a heterosexual?

Or are they dealing with additional issues that the heterosexual is not?

How those additional problems may affect someone with dealing with their life while having a minority sexual orientation are not only numerous, but ones no heterosexual would even have to deal with at all.

And that is not even touching on how a homosexual may feel about his own sexual orientation -unhappy, confused, angry, stoic, accepting, etc -or what kind of outcome they are hoping for.

Additional Problems?

I'm not arguing that queers might or might not have "additional problems."

I'm wondering, since you mentioned them, what they may be: can you give one example?

Well, can anyone else?

 

[mal]

I consider myself Christian. It's not true that Christians don't obtain counseling degrees.

So then you Believe that Homosexuality is a Sin and shouldn't be Embraced?



peace...

Not at all.

It's not true that counseling by professional standards requires anyone to "embrace" homosexuality or give up their religious beliefs.

Show me in the Old and New Testaments where it says anything about Homosexuality other than it being Sin and Abomination equal to Beastiality...

When you can't, you need to Reconsider your choice in Faiths.

Do you Embrace Homosexuality as Equal and not Sin?



peace...

 

[bodecea]

Now this NOM group...aren't they the sweetest thing? And where have we heard this guy Larry Adams' argument before?

NOM Sign: Lynch Gay Couples to Save Marriage | The Bilerico Project

Recommend listening to the video as well as reading the article.

 

[mal]

Now this NOM group...aren't they the sweetest thing? And where have we heard this guy Larry Adams' argument before?

NOM Sign: Lynch Gay Couples to Save Marriage | The Bilerico Project

Recommend listening to the video as well as reading the article.

They Islamic?... Cause that's what the Religion of Peace, Love and Tolerance does with your Kind in the ME...

But you don't Complain about what they ACTUALLY DO to Homosexuals, do you...

Why is that?



peace...

 

[Wicked Jester]

I'll ask again.....Do you lib's believe that a homosexual student should be FORCED to council a fellow student who may abjectly believe that all homo's should be shot in the head?

 

[bodecea]

I'll ask again.....Do you lib's believe that a homosexual student should be FORCED to council a fellow student who may abjectly believe that all homo's should be shot in the head?

Certainly. And I would not be surprised if some gay psychologists have had to counsel such violent behavior in the past. After all...those people REALLY need counseling. Lots of counseling before they end up hurting someone.

 

[Samson]

I'll ask again.....Do you lib's believe that a homosexual student should be FORCED to council a fellow student who may abjectly believe that all homo's should be shot in the head?

Hey, I'm confused by the question.

Do you mean

"Should ANY student who hates homosexuals be forced to council a queer?"