Petition to Put an End to Teachers' Unions in Public Education!

[Olivia]

And they get taxed MORE by being forced to pay dues in non-right-to-work States...and thier money is laundered to go to politicians...and the Union Leadership for THIER power...

I loathe them. Don't fall into the trap.

There are work rules and laws in place. Unions have outlived thier usefulness and become what they rallied against in thier early years. THEY have become part of the problem.

And by the way? THEY are Corporations unto themselves...

Thier product is LABOR...

If YOU can't get along on your merits, and command a salary in the marketplace without a third party speaking for you? What GOOD are you?

You have become a prostitute. And YOU aren't calling the shots for yourself.

Is that any different then working for a big corporation, the Military, and any special interest group? I take note that you loathe them and that's enough for you, I just don't see why or you haven't convinced me why. I think you should appreciate a hard working class adding to Fed Reserve verses being on Welfare soaking it up. I am sure you have your reasons, I just don't know what they are or how to make sense of it.

Union and ALL jobs are a choice, if you don't like them, simple don't work for a Unionized company. Myself with our Country in the financial abyss we are in, I'll appreciate any tax paying worker.

Military isn't UNIONIZED.

Infact? I think it's a crime to have Government workers in a UNION. Even FDR said as much.

I never said that the Military is unionized. The Military is no different getting their funding, pay checks then a governemnt Union person, though, or one on welfare for that matter.

 

[The T]

Is that any different then working for a big corporation, the Military, and any special interest group? I take note that you loathe them and that's enough for you, I just don't see why or you haven't convinced me why. I think you should appreciate a hard working class adding to Fed Reserve verses being on Welfare soaking it up. I am sure you have your reasons, I just don't know what they are or how to make sense of it.

Union and ALL jobs are a choice, if you don't like them, simple don't work for a Unionized company. Myself with our Country in the financial abyss we are in, I'll appreciate any tax paying worker.

Military isn't UNIONIZED.

Infact? I think it's a crime to have Government workers in a UNION. Even FDR said as much.

I never said that the Military is unionized. The Military is no different getting their funding, pay checks then a governemnt Union person, though, or one on welfare for that matter.

You should have not even mentioned them.

 

[Olivia]

Military isn't UNIONIZED.

Infact? I think it's a crime to have Government workers in a UNION. Even FDR said as much.

I never said that the Military is unionized. The Military is no different getting their funding, pay checks then a governemnt Union person, though, or one on welfare for that matter.

You should have not even mentioned them.

No I should have in the context to your reply. It wasn't just the Military is was all special interest groups.

 

[rhodescholar]

Nope, after 74 years on this earth and spending 30 years as a slave in corporate america I have learned there is WITHOUT A DOUBT CLASSES. I am a middle class american. I will die one. I have not taken a dollar of unemployment or handouts. I do take SS which I have paid into. My fellow americans are middle classers. This you are limited by your imagination sounds like the same BS GARBAGE as the AMERICAN DREAM that we so often heard about in school. What a crock of BS that was.

YOU are FOS. You could have gone into Sales and worked hard and earned a high salary, but chose not to, so who is to blame?

 

[initforme]

I'm not blaming anyone. Where did you read that. I'm simply pointing out yes there are Classes out there. Some I would help in a dire circumstance. Some I would not. Depends on who it is. Middle classers are my fellow americans you could say.

 

[taichiliberal]

Petition Text: In the Spirit of Democracy, Independence and Authentic Progressivism, the People of the United States remain to be skeptical on America's Future. There have been program initiatives for many years to better our children's circumstances from the tyranny of the Teachers' Unions. In all disrespect, We the People are frustrated with these program initiatives because quite frankly, they do not work. There have been an increase of funding towards this system but it failed to improve our circumstance as well, this is due to the nature of the contracts by the Teachers' Unions. Greed. We the People hereby petition the Obama Administration to take full initiative in eliminating such unions from this public service, namely "Public Education".

Sign the Petition: http://wh.gov/Tu2

Why?

1. Public Education is a Public Service Career.
2. Public Education Receives Thousands to Millions of Dollars on a Monthly Basis.
3. Program Initiatives like "Race to the Top" or "No Child Left Behind" Don't Work.
4. Teachers' Benefits are Extraodinary Because It's State (Federal) Owned.

Sources:

True Costs of Public Education (From YouTube)
True Costs of Public Education (From Washington Post)

Where has education ever been made better by paying teachers less and making their jobs a less attractive career choice?

I don't have a problem with public unions -I have a problem with allowing them the privilege to go on strike. THAT should be banned. When a union goes on strike they are essentially claiming ownership of that which they are denying YOU.

Does my child's education belong to public service teachers? Do they have a right to deny my child a public school education? Do they have a greater right to extort taxpayers? Do they have a greater right to blackmail taxpayers by threatening to deprive my child of an education unless their demands are met?

The reason teacher's benefits are FAR beyond those of the average taxpayer who foots the bill for them -is because we don't elect union negotiators to office, do we? Public unions at ALL times have the best interests of their members before all else. Before the best interests of those who are actually footing the bills, before those of all children, before those of the state and before those of the nation.

What people do not realize is that public union members do NOT work for any elected official. They don't work for the governor, the mayor, the school board, the President, Congress, state legislators. They work for WE THE PEOPLE. So when they go on strike they aren't striking against a governor. They are striking against US. And the people who really pay the price for it are OUR CHILDREN. The quality of education children receive in public schools has been steadily declining since the creation of the teachers union. The exact opposite of what proponents claimed would happen. Only a surprise to those who do not understand the true nature of unions in the first place evidently.

When Democrats claim to represent the best interests of public union members -I believe them and so should everyone else. But that also means they are NOT representing the best interests of everyone else because that is a DIRECT CONFLICT OF INTEREST. How can they possibly have the best interests of those footing the bills and those on the receiving end of those bills? They already make NO bones about which of those two they elevated above the other -and THIS is what it looks like. A system where a career in public service not only pays more than the average salary and benefits of those in the private sector who must pay for them -it pays more than the comparable job in the private sector. Which is an OUTRAGE! There is a REASON that without the ability to blackmail taxpayers the pay of public service careers is a little less than the comparable job in the private sector. Every productive citizen who chooses a public service career of any kind has been removed from the ranks of those who foot the bills in this country and become essentially a parasite on the rest of us. What do you think happens by encouraging people to believe it pays better to be a parasite than a productive citizen working in the private sector? Public service unions in reality act as money laundering operations for one particular political party -the same one that claims to have their best interests at heart. They use union dues to funnel money to Democrat candidates, once elected they turn around and funnel money back to the unions. This is true of both public and private unions but with public unions at ALL times, every minute it is taxpayer funds being funneled between them, it is ALL taxpayers on the hook who are REALLY footing every fucking cent of the bills in the corrupt relationship specifically created for the mutual masturbatory relationship that exists between Democrats and public unions.

PUBLIC UNIONS ARE A MAJOR SOURCE OF POLITICAL CORRUPTION IN THIS COUNTRY but when they are given the privilege of being able to go on strike -it becomes their PRIMARY PURPOSE.

So now that teachers have been given the privilege to blackmail those footing the bills by withholding our child's education until we cave to their demands -let's see what we got in exchange. Gee, have we gotten a better quality of teacher for it? Uh -NO. Our kids fare pretty poorly compared to children in other nations who spend a FRACTION of what we do on education. Probably because they have so little money they actually teach the essentials instead of using it as a political indoctrination center! Have our children left public school better prepared for college? Uh -NO. Most freshmen coming from a public school have to take remedial English and math classes before they have the MINIMAL skills to handle college courses. Have those who do not go on to college left public school better prepared for a life of self-reliance and independence as a productive citizen (which is the real point of a public school education for those who did not realize that) Uh -hell NO. Public schools do NOT belong to those who happen to work in them -they belong to WE THE PEOPLE who pay ever fucking last cent that goes into them! Just like government does NOT belong to those who happen to work in them or got elected to some office -it belongs to WE THE PEOPLE who foot the bills for its very existence! When public unions go on strike they are claiming it belongs to THEM and THEM ALONE -and claim a right to decide what services you will and will not receive. While sticking YOU with all the bills for it. Including the salaries and benefits of those denying you the services you paid for.

So your real question should be -when did allowing teachers to band together for the purpose of blackmailing taxpayers and threaten to deny your child an education until their demands are met -improve the quality of education? No one ever puts a gun to the head of someone who chooses a career as a public servant. You don't like the pay and benefits of that public service job? Go find another job and preferably one that helps pay the salaries and benefits of those IN those jobs! There has NEVER been a shortage of public servants and never been a shortage of public school teachers, never been a shortage of people willing to step into the shoes of someone who leaves public service of any kind -the sooner you realize why that is, the better for all of us! Unionizing them not only did NOT improve the quality of teachers, it guaranteed that unlike the past - getting rid of the most incompetent ones is nearly impossible. Who foots the real bill for that? YOUR KID WITH A SHITTY EDUCATION that leaves him unprepared for adulthood as an independent, productive member of society and definitely unprepared for college that now requires an average of TWO YEARS to make up for what they should have learned in public schools but didn't! Do you SERIOUSLY not know why that it is? Just one of THOUSANDS of examples of how teachers claim to be "teaching": my sister's 10 year old kid was forced to watch every episode of West Wing when it was on -so kids could get a picture of what life as a wonderful, caring and liberal President was like and the problems he faced, the mean-spirited opponents who stood in the way of his ability to just dole out blessing all over the place, etc etc and the kids left class openly admiring that "President" and in full support of his wonderful agenda! Wow -no doubt that helped them distinguish between reality and fantasy. To say nothing of the blatant political indoctrination which is ALL this was about in the first place!

So your real question should be -when did allowing teachers to blackmail those who foot the bills by threatening to deny your child an education, when did over paying teachers and allowing them to insist we over-value the services they provide -ever improve the quality of education? What did we REALLY get for all that? Next time you hear an adult say "We was going here" or you can't read what someone wrote at all because it's illegible and then find out what it says is "I looked around at the beautiful seen in front of me" -after which they go on to tell you how Republicans want dirty air and want dirty water and how they want more rape in the country -you know EXACTLY what you got for it. Those who support the system as it exists deserve nothing better -but do your kids also deserve nothing better?

So the legal right to strike automatically equates blackmail in your mind, ehh? Maybe you should do a little honest research as to WHY unions go on strike?

PATCO, despite it's contractual agreement not to strike, did so to draw attention to the FACT that the owners and managers of the PRIVATE industry that receives FEDERAL subsidy (the airline industry), WERE NOT ADDRESSING ISSUES THAT PUT THE GENERAL POPULATION AT RISK. So good old Ronnie Raygun busts the unions, and let's the airline management off the hook....and in the 30 years hence you've had news reports about problems with traffic controllers, airplane repair.....all the stuff that PATCO wanted to be addressed.

So much for your nonsense about "blackmail"

Teachers' unions go on strike when the state and federal gov't want to pull funding from school districts that leave the teachers holding the bag with regards to supplies, new equipment and class size. The neocon/teabagger bullhorns in the media point to EXCEPTIONS and NOT the rule of bad teachers and those gaming the system.....wailing about exhorbitant salaries WITHOUT pointing out the FACT that it takes about 20 years for a teacher to reach a high salary (but only if they pay for additional schooling to get a masters degree). Teacher's are controlled by the input of the parents....so if the parents want them gone THEY must get involved with the PTA, the school board, their local politicians.

Scapegoating teacher unions is an old tactic by money grubbing politicians and idealogues hell bent on creating a quasi-caste system via an educational tier system. A little publicized dirty secret about the much vaunted success of voucher school program is that any student in this program that doesn't meet the grade standard gets dumped back into the public school system.,,the public school system is suddenly found with "low grade scores".

No one is saying that the public school system is perfect, but let's not try to pass off exaggerations and distortions as the truth.

Next time, get ALL your facts straight before you try to justify the latest neocon/teabagger propaganda.

 

[initforme]

And you want to amend the educational system? Start with scrapping the american dream garbage in the classrooms. That isnt reality and should be stopped.

 

[taichiliberal]

Somewhat correct. Their (teachers) jobs have been made an attractive career choice because of the unions. They do not have to perform to keep their jobs or get raises. They cannot be fired. They can be just as incompetent as you can imagine and still keep their jobs.

If teachers depended upon their PERFORMANCE to maintain a job (just as most non-government employees do), they would be humpin' to please by producing quality graduates. As it is, the average graduate from a big city high school is qualified for nothing other than a government job where they can sit on their asses, be overpaid for doing nothing and keep their jobs forever...like their incompetent teachers do. Hell they might even become teachers. After all, they don't really have to perform!

That makes a lot of sense...to a fucking liberal!

Freedom of speech requires that you withdraw that remark. Anyone of any political persuasion can reply to any thread at anytime in any manner they choose.

You need a masters degree (eventually) to teach in New York State. Pay teachers less, take away their power to negotiate pay and benefits, thus reducing the attractiveness of selecting teaching as a career and thus investing the tens of thousands of dollars needed to qualify,

and you think you'll get better people?

That is idiocy.

No one is denying that teachers should be free to negotiate for their pay and benefits. They should do so on an individual basis based on performance and responsibility, not on seniority and political persuasion.
I negotiated my own salary for nearly my whole career. I consistently out earned union workers in my field, certainly not because of my boyish good looks, either. I'm very good at what I do and people are willing to pay me quite well.

You make the fatal error that many anti-unionist do....you ASSUME that what you say is the standard rule for ALL unions in ALL situations.

It's not.

It takes about 20 years for vast majority of teachers in America to reach the salary level that the neocon/teabagger bullhorns are wailing about...and THAT in most cases is AFTER the teacher's pay out-of-pocket to obtain varying additional educational degrees. Seniority may have perks, but it's NOT an automatic advancement for both salary and position.

Curious: exactly what was your line of work were you out performed and out negotiated your union cousins?

 

[initforme]

The hypocrisy is there. There are those who say that people who demonize the rich are just envious. They then claim that everyone has a choice to become rich. If thats true, and envy is bad then why didnt they become a teacher? Why anyone would complain about a teachers salary when they try to educate the snot nosed bratty unruly kids is beyond me. I surely wouldnt want to deal with the kids today many of whom are total delinquents.

 

[taichiliberal]

And you want to amend the educational system? Start with scrapping the american dream garbage in the classrooms. That isnt reality and should be stopped.

Eludicate, my friend! After which, you can tell us what you would offer instead.

 

[initforme]

Let them know their odds of becoming wealthy are slim no matter how hard they work. Let them know they can expect(if they get a college education) to barely get by, and hope to die peacefully hopefully not on some lousy job but doing something they enjoy. There you have the new american dream. You like apples? How bout them apples.

 

[The T]

Let them know their odds of becoming wealthy are slim no matter how hard they work. Let them know they can expect(if they get a college education) to barely get by, and hope to die peacefully hopefully not on some lousy job but doing something they enjoy. There you have the new american dream. You like apples? How bout them apples.

What's college indoctrination got to do with anything?

 

[initforme]

Oh yes we would like to encourage them to not get educated so they can work, I mean toil for slave wages in some factory. Good idea. I guess you could just send them to my house instead of college and I will indoctrinate them.

 

[taichiliberal]

I've been teaching for 15 years and haven't been in a teachers union. Most of the time I've been in a parochial school, they could definitely use some unions there. Really. With that said, I've been in IBEW and the meat packers union/AFL-CIO in previous jobs. I really don't like what unions have become.

As for teaching, I do think unions serve a function regarding unsubstantiated accusations, unfair administrative dictates, etc. What I don't like about the teachers unions though, is serious. They protect bad teachers. That includes the grossly incompetent and even abusers of children.

The unions too, teachers and others, have become what they claim to abhor, top heavy with administrators and a bunch of bureaucrats. Dues are used to pay politicos rather than protect the workers and make the job of teaching more about the kids.

With the great number of teachers in unions, seems to me that they could be performing much better, at much lower cost to members. To do so also means that bad teachers would find no safe haven.

Unions really never had a function...

Not if one understands the philosophy of our economic model.

Lets just say business profits are only as good as the workers salary because they're the ones buying product...

The less money you give a man the less money he can spend on products...

There is a balance between wages and cost but the government fucks that balance up by sticking the big brother hand out...

Obviously you haven't a clue about American history and unions....why unions were created and how they have helped create the vaunted middle class in this society as well as all the little perks in the work place that you and I take for granted.

Once you understand that, you'll realize how seriously flawed your statement is here.

 

[taichiliberal]

Let them know their odds of becoming wealthy are slim no matter how hard they work. Let them know they can expect(if they get a college education) to barely get by, and hope to die peacefully hopefully not on some lousy job but doing something they enjoy. There you have the new american dream. You like apples? How bout them apples.

First, you need to hit the quote button so people won't have to guess or search as to whom you are responding to.

Secondly, if you've got an axe to grind you should NOT take it out on children by trying to program them into being depressed little drudges that will accept some quasi-caste system.

Yes, more realism...NOT a pessimistic attitude.

 

[initforme]

America is slowly becoming a caste system. When the middle class is gone thats what we'll have.

 

[taichiliberal]

It seems with all the praise I've gotten for this petition I only have two signatures... What's up? Are you guys having a hard time registering for an account on the White House site?

People aren't buying into your incredibly bias and distortions, that's "what's up". Deal with it.

 

[taichiliberal]

America is slowly becoming a caste system. When the middle class is gone thats what we'll have.

True enough...but the attitude YOU displayed in your previous post would only hasten, not deter that path.

Letting kids know that learning a trade and NOT going through college is not a shameful thing....that's a starter.

 

[CT9]

Nope, after 74 years on this earth and spending 30 years as a slave in corporate america I have learned there is WITHOUT A DOUBT CLASSES. I am a middle class american. I will die one. I have not taken a dollar of unemployment or handouts. I do take SS which I have paid into. My fellow americans are middle classers. This you are limited by your imagination sounds like the same BS GARBAGE as the AMERICAN DREAM that we so often heard about in school. What a crock of BS that was.

that's your fault and your problem

You sound bitter....

My grandfather went from poor to rich as hell... and my father went from rich as hell to poor

It's all about you and what you do

That's the thing a lot of Americans don't like to deal with. If you don't get as rich as you would like to be it's on you. You simply failed to get there. Not everyone has the abilities needed to get rich

Oh is that too harsh for a lot of you too bad

Our ancestors lived in a world that was a lot more cut throat and we can't even handle failure or not quite achieving what we want it disgusts me.

 

[rhodescholar]

So the legal right to strike automatically equates blackmail in your mind, ehh? Maybe you should do a little honest research as to WHY unions go on strike? PATCO, despite it's contractual agreement not to strike, did so to draw attention to the FACT that the owners and managers of the PRIVATE industry that receives FEDERAL subsidy (the airline industry), WERE NOT ADDRESSING ISSUES THAT PUT THE GENERAL POPULATION AT RISK. So good old Ronnie Raygun busts the unions, and let's the airline management off the hook....and in the 30 years hence you've had news reports about problems with traffic controllers, airplane repair.....all the stuff that PATCO wanted to be addressed. So much for your nonsense about "blackmail"

Public employees do not have a "right" to unionize. Learn facts and the law, please. That privilege should never have been granted in the first place by an idiot mayor of my city...

Teachers' unions go on strike when the state and federal gov't want to pull funding from school districts that leave the teachers holding the bag with regards to supplies, new equipment and class size.

You are fucking beyond clueless. If you believe this BS above, I can see why the far left has been losing massive support in this country for 40 years.

Teacher's are controlled by the input of the parents....so if the parents want them gone THEY must get involved with the PTA, the school board, their local politicians.

Like in CT, where the fucking scumbag whore Weingarten made certain to keep parents out of the decision making process?

Scapegoating teacher unions is an old tactic

For the 100th time idiot, I support private sector unions - but there is NO JUSTIFICATION WHATSOEVER for public employee unions - NONE.

That you and every other leftist poster here refuses to acknowledge the systemic theft and corruption of allowing politicians to decide on providing ever-more generous contracts for people under them who can vote them in office is proof positive that the far left's opinion on this issue is DOA -- zero credibility, zilch.