Physics and why LWIR can not warm oceans... Info for a Clueless Senator Markey and alarmists..

[SSDD]

a fucking refrigerator with a fucking flow of fucking FREON not phucking PHOTONS.

You think the second law applies to photons, but not to every other thing in the universe? Interesting. Tell me, other than photons, what else do you believe is exempt from the second law of thermodynamics?

 

[SSDD]

Sometimes he says energy is not heat, sometimes it is. Sometimes one Thermodynamics Law takes precedence, sometimes another. Sometimes he scoffs at Quantum Mechanics, at other times he he uses the most esoteric of its properties.

Unlike you, I don't make any claims at all about what heat is or isn't...that is all you. Believing you know a thing when clearly, you don't. As I have shown before, science remains unsure as to whether heat is a form of energy or a mode of energy transfer.

 

[SSDD]

Yup. That's just how SSDD rolls. He is impossible to converse with on certain topics, like this one.

Can you tell me what is going on in his mind? Is he a troll? He certainly fits the definition. Does he firmly believe his crap? Does he have a pride so rigid that he has to defend the indefensible to the point where he looks foolish and looses all self esteem?

Waiting for you to say other than photons what else do you believe is exempt from the second law...and explain how it is that you think that photons get a pass?

 

[SSDD]

You forgot that I did provide you with an example of thermal radiation from a cold object to an object 300 degrees warmer.The cold cosmic microwave background, CMB, at 2.7 degrees K can strike a radio antenna on earth at 300 degrees K.

Sorry, but you didn't...all you managed to do was show that you think a resonance frequency had a measurable temperature.

 

[SSDD]

Yup. That's just how SSDD rolls. He is impossible to converse with on certain topics, like this one.

Can you tell me what is going on in his mind? Is he a troll? He certainly fits the definition. Does he firmly believe his crap? Does he have a pride so rigid that he has to defend the indefensible to the point where he looks foolish and looses all self esteem?

He is just firmly set in a particular and peculiar way of thinking. No amount of arguments will get him off his fixed position. He's not smart enough to actually run things through in his head. Lots of people like that.

If you mean I don't think I am smart enough to make a claim that the second law does not support...no..I don't think I am that smart. I will continue to accept the second law as stated till such time as you write a paper providing proof that as it stands, it is wrong and get it rewritten.

 

[flacaltenn]

Now -- what else did I say about Radiative transfers that you take issues with SSDD???

 

[SSDD]

All semantics without any impact on the fundamentals. Some folks prefer to quibble about the difference between thermal ENERGY and thermal POWER.. And "heat" is generally considered to be thermal energy in motion or in transfer between objects..

Says the guy who believed that he knew that heat was a form of energy even though science remains unsure. I am sure that it isn't important to you because you believe you know...you believe.

What you have here -- is just an esoteric distinction that is made because some Physicists gets pissy that HEAT is only heat energy in motion.. Capice ???? NOT -- any kind of earth of earth-smashing refutation of basic science. By that definition -- a BTU is not a measure of "heat energy" not heat power...

What I have here is a perfectly valid point that neither you, nor anyone else can satisfactorily answer... Post up the second law...heat can't move from a cool object to a warm object and someone invariably pipes up....heat and energy are two different things...heat can't move from cool to warm but energy can....so is heat energy or not? The answer matters.

Listen up.. By that reasoning -- a battery does not store electricity. Because there is no electricity --- unless a current flows... Hopeless semantics..

Piss poor analogy flacaltenn...

hook that 1.5V battery up to a wire and run that wire to a 12V battery...do you think those electrons are going to disobey the second law and run up that wire from the 1.5V battery to the 12V battery? Do you think that they need to be intelligent in order to not at least try?

 

[flacaltenn]

a fucking refrigerator with a fucking flow of fucking FREON not phucking PHOTONS.

You think the second law applies to photons, but not to every other thing in the universe? Interesting. Tell me, other than photons, what else do you believe is exempt from the second law of thermodynamics?

The heat potential that photons carrry --- is NOT exempt from the 2nd law. You just don't know how to calculate the heat flow involved in radiative transfers. If you DID -- you would see that those flows OBEY the 2nd law in all instances where the flow is not so small that it is statistically determined.

And then you could clean your mind of doubt, focus on other things and enjoy life a LOT more..

 

[SSDD]

Now -- what else did I say about Radiative transfers that you take issues with SSDD???

Anything that you have said that runs contrary to the second law and its statement that energy doesn't move spontaneously from cool to warm. There are no observed examples because it simply doesn't happen.

 

[SSDD]

a fucking refrigerator with a fucking flow of fucking FREON not phucking PHOTONS.

You think the second law applies to photons, but not to every other thing in the universe? Interesting. Tell me, other than photons, what else do you believe is exempt from the second law of thermodynamics?

The heat potential that photons carrry --- is NOT exempt from the 2nd law. You just don't know how to calculate the heat flow involved in radiative transfers. If you DID -- you would see that those flows OBEY the 2nd law in all instances where the flow is not so small that it is statistically determined.

You are referring to a mathematical model...an unobservable, untestable, unmeasurable, unprovable mathematical model and nothing more.

And then you could clean your mind of doubt, focus on other things and enjoy life a LOT more..

You think I would be happier if I just believed in an unobservable, untestable, unmeasurable, unprovable mathematical model? I don't think so. I much prefer seeing what the consensus though that they knew fall to reality...one domino after another. The idea that back radiation happens will eventually fall in the face of reality as well.

 

[flacaltenn]

All semantics without any impact on the fundamentals. Some folks prefer to quibble about the difference between thermal ENERGY and thermal POWER.. And "heat" is generally considered to be thermal energy in motion or in transfer between objects..

Says the guy who believed that he knew that heat was a form of energy even though science remains unsure. I am sure that it isn't important to you because you believe you know...you believe.

What you have here -- is just an esoteric distinction that is made because some Physicists gets pissy that HEAT is only heat energy in motion.. Capice ???? NOT -- any kind of earth of earth-smashing refutation of basic science. By that definition -- a BTU is not a measure of "heat energy" not heat power...

What I have here is a perfectly valid point that neither you, nor anyone else can satisfactorily answer... Post up the second law...heat can't move from a cool object to a warm object and someone invariably pipes up....heat and energy are two different things...heat can't move from cool to warm but energy can....so is heat energy or not? The answer matters.

Listen up.. By that reasoning -- a battery does not store electricity. Because there is no electricity --- unless a current flows... Hopeless semantics..

Piss poor analogy flacaltenn...

hook that 1.5V battery up to a wire and run that wire to a 12V battery...do you think those electrons are going to disobey the second law and run up that wire from the 1.5V battery to the 12V battery? Do you think that they need to be intelligent in order to not at least try?

I would refrain from doing experiments that could blow up in your face -- until you understand the mechanics of those transfers.. Certainly those electrons are gonna be guided by the VOLTAGE (temperature) and RESISTANCE (thermal insulation values) of the sources and the path..

This is INDEED the case in the flow of IR photons in a radiative transfer as well.. UNDERSTAND THAT COMPLETELY before you reply. Before you make asinine statements about electrons running backwards.

Then I can blow your mind with the concept of "holes" running in the OPPOSITE direction in a semiconductor device...

 

[flacaltenn]

Now -- what else did I say about Radiative transfers that you take issues with SSDD???

Anything that you have said that runs contrary to the second law and its statement that energy doesn't move spontaneously from cool to warm. There are no observed examples because it simply doesn't happen.

NET FLOWS between objects of different temperature in radiative transfers obey the 2nd law. You have a mode of heat transfer that just has different propagation rules..

 

[flacaltenn]

I'm tired.. I want to SSDD to either ACKNOWLEDGE that radiative transfers are the 3rd form of heat transfer -- or not. Because that's what it says in the Thermo books.

And if he doesn't deny it -- He needs to explain HIS VERSION of how radiative heat transfers happen...

 

[Wuwei]

You think the second law applies to photons, but not to every other thing in the universe? Interesting. Tell me, other than photons, what else do you believe is exempt from the second law of thermodynamics?

You got that backwards. It's astounding that you think the second law applies to refrigerators but not everything else in the universe. Can you tell my why you think refrigerators explain atmospheric physics?

 

[SSDD]

I would refrain from doing experiments that could blow up in your face -- until you understand the mechanics of those transfers.. Certainly those electrons are gonna be guided by the VOLTAGE (temperature) and RESISTANCE (thermal insulation values) of the sources and the path..

In other words, they adhere to the second law of thermodynamics.

 

[flacaltenn]

a fucking refrigerator with a fucking flow of fucking FREON not phucking PHOTONS.

You think the second law applies to photons, but not to every other thing in the universe? Interesting. Tell me, other than photons, what else do you believe is exempt from the second law of thermodynamics?

The heat potential that photons carrry --- is NOT exempt from the 2nd law. You just don't know how to calculate the heat flow involved in radiative transfers. If you DID -- you would see that those flows OBEY the 2nd law in all instances where the flow is not so small that it is statistically determined.

You are referring to a mathematical model...an unobservable, untestable, unmeasurable, unprovable mathematical model and nothing more.

And then you could clean your mind of doubt, focus on other things and enjoy life a LOT more..

You think I would be happier if I just believed in an unobservable, untestable, unmeasurable, unprovable mathematical model? I don't think so. I much prefer seeing what the consensus though that they knew fall to reality...one domino after another. The idea that back radiation happens will eventually fall in the face of reality as well.

What mathematical model? How does light propagate? I measure individual photons all the time. I count them in bio-fluorescent markers that glow different colors with different protein tags added to the material..

I can count them, calculate the flow and works as advertised.. What's your problem with my model???

 

[SSDD]

NET FLOWS between objects of different temperature in radiative transfers obey the 2nd law. You have a mode of heat transfer that just has different propagation rules..

The second law of thermodynamics is all about gross flows...net flows are the product of unobservable, untestable, unmeasurable, unprovable mathematical models.

 

[Wuwei]

You forgot that I did provide you with an example of thermal radiation from a cold object to an object 300 degrees warmer.The cold cosmic microwave background, CMB, at 2.7 degrees K can strike a radio antenna on earth at 300 degrees K.

Sorry, but you didn't...all you managed to do was show that you think a resonance frequency had a measurable temperature.

Can you go into detail why you think the CMB did not strike radio dishes in 65 separate experiments even though scientists detected the radiation using those radio dishes.

 

[Wuwei]

The second law of thermodynamics is all about gross flows...net flows are the product of unobservable, untestable, unmeasurable, unprovable mathematical models.

Please supply a reference to experimental proof that the second law is valid.

 

[flacaltenn]

I would refrain from doing experiments that could blow up in your face -- until you understand the mechanics of those transfers.. Certainly those electrons are gonna be guided by the VOLTAGE (temperature) and RESISTANCE (thermal insulation values) of the sources and the path..

In other words, they adhere to the second law of thermodynamics.

Not rigorously no.. Because that's not a thermodynamic process. It's an electron charge driven process. But it's PROPAGATION equations are identical to propagation equations for heat in CONDUCTION for materials.

That's just ONE form of heat. There are 2 others that PROPAGATE differently.. That's where you are hopelessly mired..