Planned Parenthood caught trafficking in human body parts

[Faun]

Don't know why that would be a conditional consideration, since one deals with standard of living and the other is life itself. But sure lets talk about welfare. Forget about the abuse of it on the part of citizens,(which needs to be part of the conversation) let's talk about the abuse coming from govt. an immense amount of taxpayer money goes into welfare, then you pay for a gigantic bureaucracy, that then doles out breadcrumbs to the needy. I'm sure you would agree that not enough is given out to the needy, correct? And in this day and age isn't it possible that we can cut out the bureaucracy and be more efficient at getting the money to the people, and in turn giving them more money? And what is the point of welfare, is it dependence? And if not then why are more and more people becoming dependent on it under this administration supposedly for the little guy? Remember, 93 million have dropped out of the workforce, operant word being workforce, not people retiring. And look up the numbers for the increase in food stamps, pretty damning for a party that's trying to champion the lower and middle class

sorry in advance for being off topic ... but ...... 93 million people have not dropped out of the workforce.

 

[TemplarKormac]

 

[sakinago]

Don't know why that would be a conditional consideration, since one deals with standard of living and the other is life itself. But sure lets talk about welfare. Forget about the abuse of it on the part of citizens,(which needs to be part of the conversation) let's talk about the abuse coming from govt. an immense amount of taxpayer money goes into welfare, then you pay for a gigantic bureaucracy, that then doles out breadcrumbs to the needy. I'm sure you would agree that not enough is given out to the needy, correct? And in this day and age isn't it possible that we can cut out the bureaucracy and be more efficient at getting the money to the people, and in turn giving them more money? And what is the point of welfare, is it dependence? And if not then why are more and more people becoming dependent on it under this administration supposedly for the little guy? Remember, 93 million have dropped out of the workforce, operant word being workforce, not people retiring. And look up the numbers for the increase in food stamps, pretty damning for a party that's trying to champion the lower and middle class

sorry in advance for being off topic ... but ...... 93 million people have not dropped out of the workforce.

9.5 Million People Have Left the Workforce Under Obama

Report More Than 92 Million Americans Remain Out Of Labor Force CBS DC

Theres more articles I can cite from different sources. And I know it's off topic but I was responding to joeb and his assertion that he won't listen to a life argument until we back welfare to his satisfaction.

 

[JoeB131]

Yes. Less than 17.00 actually.

All free from WIC:

Bread/tortillas
Eggs/ cheese/ milk
Rice/beans/Tofu
Fresh veggies and fruit
Peanut butter
Iron rich cereal (boxed and hot)

To illustrate this point my shopping trip for Last Sunday Lunch and dinner.

We weren't talking about WIC, we were talking about SNAP. Way to move the goal-posts.

 

[JoeB131]

Don't know why that would be a conditional consideration, since one deals with standard of living and the other is life itself. But sure lets talk about welfare. Forget about the abuse of it on the part of citizens,(which needs to be part of the conversation) let's talk about the abuse coming from govt. an immense amount of taxpayer money goes into welfare, then you pay for a gigantic bureaucracy, that then doles out breadcrumbs to the needy.

Actually, Corky, got to stop you right here because again, you are a retard.

Check it out, Low Income Assistance is only 5.3% of the Federal Budget.

Meanwhile, "White People" entitlements of Social Security and Medicare make up 33% of the budget.

So, no we aren't lavishing a bunch of money on poor people, contrary to what people like you want to think.

 

[JoeB131]

And I also suspect you are for the need for culling the population, after all there almost 8 billion on the planet

I think we are already doing what we need to do control the world's population growth.

 

[JoeB131]

Theres more articles I can cite from different sources. And I know it's off topic but I was responding to joeb and his assertion that he won't listen to a life argument until we back welfare to his satisfaction.

Yes, unfortunately, your claims are all kind of retarded.

We have massive amounts of people 'leaving the workforce' because they are aging out of it, not because Obama didn't fix Bush's mess fast enough.

Now, we are going to at some point have to rethink our economic model because the current one doesn't work.

 

[aris2chat]

Just wait until Walker is elected President. He's already eliminated all state funding for Planned Parenthood in Wisconsin.

"In the U.S., the use of fetal tissue is regulated by law to prevent abuse. For example, women who donate their aborted fetuses for research are required to give their free and informed consent, and must not be asked to donate until after they have already decided to have an abortion. Fears that women are being coerced into abortions solely to obtain fetal tissue are irrational and unfounded.

In Canada, no laws exist at present on the handling and use of fetal tissue (a law is currently on the drawing board), but strict ethical guidelines are enforced by several independent research councils. Research funding is provided only to individuals and institutions that certify compliance with the guidelines. These cover much the same ground as the U.S. laws, including the requirement for informed consent from women without interfering with their abortion decision, and the obtainment of tissue through non-commercial means.

The only allegation currently under investigation by a U.S. Congressional committee is that two biomedical companies, acting as third parties in the collection of fetal tissue, are charging inflated handling fees to research institutions -- more than what is needed to cover costs. Let there be no doubt as to the unanimous pro-choice position on this -- if any type of illegal activity is happening -- and nothing has been proved as yet -- let's root it out and prosecute the perpetrators to the fullest extent of the law. [Ed note: In August 2001, these two companies and a Kansas abortion clinic were cleared of any wrongdoing, after an FBI investigation concluded no illegal activities had occurred].

As for the vicious gossip about doctors killing babies to "harvest" their organs, such hearsay is more suited to publication in the Weekly World News. These rumours originate from a single, anonymous source -- "Kelly," who claims to be a former worker at an organ donation company in Maryland. The scenes she describes constitute criminal behaviour, and a gross violation of medical ethics. If her claims are true, why is she hiding behind a pseudonym, instead of helping bring the perpetrators to justice? Why did she go to Life Dynamics with her "evidence", instead of the police? These stories and their source are simply not credible, and abortion providers are outraged by even the suggestion of such barbaric practices. [Ed note: In March 2000, in front of a Congressional committee, the stories of "Kelly" and Life Dynamics were completely discredited—"Kelly" was actually Lawrence Dean Alberty, a paid spy for Life Dynamics, and he and LDI apparently fabricated much of the "evidence".]"

More vicious lies from the Irish Lassie.

The video says otherwise, dumb ass.

The producers of the video, like you, are lying pieces of shit. It is not illegal to use fetal tissue in medical research. Since the video was taken a year ago and no one has been arrested to charged, pretty clear who is the dumbass here, Lassie.

It is not illegal to donate tissue or body parts, including aborted fetus, for medical research. The cost to remove, preserve, or transport can be chaged in the arrangment.
the $100 is not for the sale but the costs for the expenses of the tissue.
The transaction being discussed is not illegal, it is not an actual "sale" but the costs for the expenses

Once the fetal tissue is removed it is not longer up to the mother what happens to the tissue. It up to the clinc/hospital to dispose or donate for research.

 

[BlueGin]

Yes. Less than 17.00 actually.

All free from WIC:

Bread/tortillas
Eggs/ cheese/ milk
Rice/beans/Tofu
Fresh veggies and fruit
Peanut butter
Iron rich cereal (boxed and hot)

To illustrate this point my shopping trip for Last Sunday Lunch and dinner.

We weren't talking about WIC, we were talking about SNAP. Way to move the goal-posts.

Delete WIC. Same shopping trip... Buy just enough corn and veggies for one days meals.

Still under 17.00 at 16.23

BTW

I always included WIC since all low income women with children 5 and under qualify. Said so from the beginning. But you love to play word games so...

But

You are still wrong.

 

[JoeB131]

Delete WIC. Same shopping trip... Buy just enough corn and veggies for one days meals.

Still under 17.00 at 16.23

BTW

I always included WIC since all low income women with children 5 and under qualify. Said so from the beginning. But you love to play word games so...

But

You are still wrong.

I was talking about SNAP, not WIC.

Your claim was that you could serve three meals a day to a family of four for $17.00. Yeah, I guess if they don't eat meat or proteins, that would work.

"Hey, we gave you some corn! You should be happy to have more kids you can't afford. Hey, why are you going to that abortion clinic? Abortion makes Baby Jesus cry!!!"

 

[aris2chat]

>>The “sale” of organs, both adult and fetal, for transplantation is indeed illegal, but donation of tissue — both from aborted fetuses and from adults — is not. And payment for “reasonable” costs is also allowed under the law.

The video itself highlights a portion of title 42 of the U.S. code, which reads: “It shall be unlawful for any person to knowingly acquire, receive, or otherwise transfer any human organ for valuable consideration for use in human transplantation if the transfer affects interstate commerce.” The law does include fetal tissue in its definitions. It says that the term “valuable consideration” doesn’t include “reasonable payments” for removal, transportation, preservation and other associated costs.<<

>>The American Medical Association echoes this in its ethical guidelines on the issue: “Fetal tissue is not provided in exchange for financial remuneration above that which is necessary to cover reasonable expenses.<<

Unspinning the Planned Parenthood Video

 

[BlueGin]

Just wait until Walker is elected President. He's already eliminated all state funding for Planned Parenthood in Wisconsin.

"In the U.S., the use of fetal tissue is regulated by law to prevent abuse. For example, women who donate their aborted fetuses for research are required to give their free and informed consent, and must not be asked to donate until after they have already decided to have an abortion. Fears that women are being coerced into abortions solely to obtain fetal tissue are irrational and unfounded.

In Canada, no laws exist at present on the handling and use of fetal tissue (a law is currently on the drawing board), but strict ethical guidelines are enforced by several independent research councils. Research funding is provided only to individuals and institutions that certify compliance with the guidelines. These cover much the same ground as the U.S. laws, including the requirement for informed consent from women without interfering with their abortion decision, and the obtainment of tissue through non-commercial means.

The only allegation currently under investigation by a U.S. Congressional committee is that two biomedical companies, acting as third parties in the collection of fetal tissue, are charging inflated handling fees to research institutions -- more than what is needed to cover costs. Let there be no doubt as to the unanimous pro-choice position on this -- if any type of illegal activity is happening -- and nothing has been proved as yet -- let's root it out and prosecute the perpetrators to the fullest extent of the law. [Ed note: In August 2001, these two companies and a Kansas abortion clinic were cleared of any wrongdoing, after an FBI investigation concluded no illegal activities had occurred].

As for the vicious gossip about doctors killing babies to "harvest" their organs, such hearsay is more suited to publication in the Weekly World News. These rumours originate from a single, anonymous source -- "Kelly," who claims to be a former worker at an organ donation company in Maryland. The scenes she describes constitute criminal behaviour, and a gross violation of medical ethics. If her claims are true, why is she hiding behind a pseudonym, instead of helping bring the perpetrators to justice? Why did she go to Life Dynamics with her "evidence", instead of the police? These stories and their source are simply not credible, and abortion providers are outraged by even the suggestion of such barbaric practices. [Ed note: In March 2000, in front of a Congressional committee, the stories of "Kelly" and Life Dynamics were completely discredited—"Kelly" was actually Lawrence Dean Alberty, a paid spy for Life Dynamics, and he and LDI apparently fabricated much of the "evidence".]"

More vicious lies from the Irish Lassie.

The video says otherwise, dumb ass.

The producers of the video, like you, are lying pieces of shit. It is not illegal to use fetal tissue in medical research. Since the video was taken a year ago and no one has been arrested to charged, pretty clear who is the dumbass here, Lassie.

It is not illegal to donate tissue or body parts, including aborted fetus, for medical research. The cost to remove, preserve, or transport can be chaged in the arrangment.
the $100 is not for the sale but the costs for the expenses of the tissue.
The transaction being discussed is not illegal, it is not an actual "sale" but the costs for the expenses

Once the fetal tissue is removed it is not longer up to the mother what happens to the tissue. It up to the clinc/hospital to dispose or donate for research.

It is illegal to alter procedures to harvest organs. It is also illegal to donate tissue without consent from the patient.

 

[BlueGin]

Delete WIC. Same shopping trip... Buy just enough corn and veggies for one days meals.

Still under 17.00 at 16.23

BTW

I always included WIC since all low income women with children 5 and under qualify. Said so from the beginning. But you love to play word games so...

But

You are still wrong.

I was talking about SNAP, not WIC.

Your claim was that you could serve three meals a day to a family of four for $17.00. Yeah, I guess if they don't eat meat or proteins, that would work.

"Hey, we gave you some corn! You should be happy to have more kids you can't afford. Hey, why are you going to that abortion clinic? Abortion makes Baby Jesus cry!!!"

So... skip pizza. Buy oatmeal ,honey, bread, peanut butter and jelly. Or hot dogs and buns (all sold at DT).

Still under 17.00.

I can create meals under 17.00 from store ads all day long. Face it ... You are full of crap.

Chicken kabobs were also listed btw... Pretty sure that is protein.

 

[JoeB131]

So... skip pizza. Buy oatmeal ,honey, bread, peanut butter and jelly. Or hot dogs and buns (all sold at DT).

Still under 17.00.

I can create meals under 17.00 from store ads all day long. Face it ... You are full of crap.

Yeah. Fuck those poor people, they can eat oatmeal!!! How dare they want to eat real meat.

Real meat is for WHITE PEOPLE!!!!

And don't you dare think about going to planned parenthood to get an abortion!!!!

Boy, you wingnuts have no idea how fucked up you sound, do you?

 

[JoeB131]

Again- we are talking about $17.00 a day for a family of four. That works out to $1.41 per person per meal.

 

[BlueGin]

Delete WIC. Same shopping trip... Buy just enough corn and veggies for one days meals.

Still under 17.00 at 16.23

BTW

I always included WIC since all low income women with children 5 and under qualify. Said so from the beginning. But you love to play word games so...

But

You are still wrong.

I was talking about SNAP, not WIC.

Your claim was that you could serve three meals a day to a family of four for $17.00. Yeah, I guess if they don't eat meat or proteins, that would work.

"Hey, we gave you some corn! You should be happy to have more kids you can't afford. Hey, why are you going to that abortion clinic? Abortion makes Baby Jesus cry!!!"

Of course you want to ignore WIC. It doesn't fit in your fake scenario. Keep in mind that kids over 5 also qualify for free breakfast and lunch at school.

And during the summer at parks and recreation programs, Children's choice programs Etc...

So really. They would only rely on mom for dinner.

 

[BlueGin]

So... skip pizza. Buy oatmeal ,honey, bread, peanut butter and jelly. Or hot dogs and buns (all sold at DT).

Still under 17.00.

I can create meals under 17.00 from store ads all day long. Face it ... You are full of crap.

Yeah. Fuck those poor people, they can eat oatmeal!!! How dare they want to eat real meat.

Real meat is for WHITE PEOPLE!!!!

And don't you dare think about going to planned parenthood to get an abortion!!!!

Boy, you wingnuts have no idea how fucked up you sound, do you?

The Lib WIC program lists oatmeal as an approved item. Take it up with them.

 

[JoeB131]

Of course you want to ignore WIC. It doesn't fit in your fake scenario. Keep in mind that kids over 5 also qualify for free breakfast and lunch at school.

And during the summer at parks and recreation programs, Children's choice programs Etc...

So really. They would only rely on mom for dinner.

So they get five meals out of 21 a week (those little bastards better not get any snacks, dammit!!!) and you think "Problem solved"?

So why all this hostility towards poor people?

 

[BlueGin]

Again- we are talking about $17.00 a day for a family of four. That works out to $1.41 per person per meal.

Libs want to crank out the entitlement programs... And then deny low income people get them and use them.

You are still wrong. But keep whining.

 

[BlueGin]

Of course you want to ignore WIC. It doesn't fit in your fake scenario. Keep in mind that kids over 5 also qualify for free breakfast and lunch at school.

And during the summer at parks and recreation programs, Children's choice programs Etc...

So really. They would only rely on mom for dinner.

So they get five meals out of 21 a week (those little bastards better not get any snacks, dammit!!!) and you think "Problem solved"?

So why all this hostility towards poor people?

Try 10. Leaving mom extra SNAP money for the weekend.