Plenty of "Good Guys with Guns" But 6 Injured Anyway

[Spoonman]

I'm looking for ideas that aren't easy to go around. I appreciate you have ideas, but just don't think they would make a difference. I think you'd need armed guards at the gate and a metal detector to be effective. Don't see that as practical. And you couldn't do that at a walmart.

The ideas would not completely remove all potential death in the event a determined, and suicidal, person decides to kill people. The best step would be to work on better prevention, as in work place mediation for problems ect.

And since there is virtually no way to guarantee 100% safety, the best ideas are those that limit the loss of life.

Considering how easy it is to make a bomb or lethal gas, there pretty much can be no guarantee of safety. Clorox and Windex can be combined to make chlorine gas. That has the potential to kill more people than died in the shooting in Kennesaw.

I agree with you. This is why I believe in magazine cap limits. These shooters are often stopped at reload.

really. give us one real example of where a shooter was stopped at reload. another total lie by brain

 

[eflatminor]

Takes soooooo long to reload a semi automatic firearm...

[ame="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NxzrahUUTi8"]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NxzrahUUTi8[/ame]

 

[Brain357]

The ideas would not completely remove all potential death in the event a determined, and suicidal, person decides to kill people. The best step would be to work on better prevention, as in work place mediation for problems ect.

And since there is virtually no way to guarantee 100% safety, the best ideas are those that limit the loss of life.

Considering how easy it is to make a bomb or lethal gas, there pretty much can be no guarantee of safety. Clorox and Windex can be combined to make chlorine gas. That has the potential to kill more people than died in the shooting in Kennesaw.

I agree with you. This is why I believe in magazine cap limits. These shooters are often stopped at reload.

really. give us one real example of where a shooter was stopped at reload. another total lie by brain

See Giffords shooting. Many, many more examples out there.

 

[martybegan]

I'm looking for ideas that aren't easy to go around. I appreciate you have ideas, but just don't think they would make a difference. I think you'd need armed guards at the gate and a metal detector to be effective. Don't see that as practical. And you couldn't do that at a walmart.

The ideas would not completely remove all potential death in the event a determined, and suicidal, person decides to kill people. The best step would be to work on better prevention, as in work place mediation for problems ect.

And since there is virtually no way to guarantee 100% safety, the best ideas are those that limit the loss of life.

Considering how easy it is to make a bomb or lethal gas, there pretty much can be no guarantee of safety. Clorox and Windex can be combined to make chlorine gas. That has the potential to kill more people than died in the shooting in Kennesaw.

I agree with you. This is why I believe in magazine cap limits. These shooters are often stopped at reload.

you got proof of that?

 

[WinterBorn]

I'm looking for ideas that aren't easy to go around. I appreciate you have ideas, but just don't think they would make a difference. I think you'd need armed guards at the gate and a metal detector to be effective. Don't see that as practical. And you couldn't do that at a walmart.

The ideas would not completely remove all potential death in the event a determined, and suicidal, person decides to kill people. The best step would be to work on better prevention, as in work place mediation for problems ect.

And since there is virtually no way to guarantee 100% safety, the best ideas are those that limit the loss of life.

Considering how easy it is to make a bomb or lethal gas, there pretty much can be no guarantee of safety. Clorox and Windex can be combined to make chlorine gas. That has the potential to kill more people than died in the shooting in Kennesaw.

I agree with you. This is why I believe in magazine cap limits. These shooters are often stopped at reload.

Eh, magazine capacity isn't an issue have much worry about on either side.

I own two semi-automatic pistols. One comes with a 10 round magazine and is a .22. The other has magazine capacity of 8 rounds (7 in the stock version), but I can reload in under 2 seconds. So the ability to stop the shooter during reloads has more to do with the inability of the shooter than the limits on capacity.

Even with a revolver, using speedloaders and a bit of practice the reload can go faster than the people around you can react. Unless the shooter is within your reach (and you have been counting the shots fired) replying on grabbing him as he reloads is asking to be shot.

 

[Luddly Neddite]

By citing two examples out of hundreds of thousands of examples of criminals using firearms in the commission of their crime.

Thanks for making my point!



You keep using this word. I do not think you know what it means.



I don't need examples. I need actual evidence. Real statistics. You know, proof.

And further, that evidence will have to counter the OVERWHELMING evidence that criminals do not obtain firearms legally in one state and them take them to another, but that they obtain them illegally in the state in which they commit their crime. For example:

Five out of six gun-possessing felons obtained handguns from the secondary market and by theft, and “[the] criminal handgun market is overwhelmingly dominated by informal transactions and theft as mechanisms of supply.” - The Armed Criminal in America: A Survey of Incarcerated Felons , James D. Wright, Peter H. Rossi, National Institute of Justice (U.S.), 1985

The majority of handguns in the possession of criminals are stolen, and not necessarily by the criminals in question. - Targeting Guns: Firearms and Their Control, Gary Kleck, Aldine de Gruyter, 1997

Over 100,000 firearms are stolen in burglaries every year, and most of them likely enter the criminal market (i.e., are sold or traded to criminals). - Victimization During Household Burglary, Bureau of Justice Statistics, September 2010

Good luck!

So if guns are stolen from gun owners, aren't gun owners arming criminals? Sounds like gun ownership does more damage than good. NRA says you need a gun to protect your stuff, but owners get their guns stolen? Ouch.

if liberals didn't place restrictive gun laws on us making it impossible to carry our weapons as the 2nd amendment intended, gun owners wouldn't spend so much time separated from there guns now would we?

Stolen guns are the fault of liberals and their restrictive laws

EXACTLY what are those restrictive gun laws on us making it impossible to carry our weapons as the 2nd amendment intended liberals have placed on you?

 

[WinterBorn]

Hardly. You really don't think to deeply into this do you? For one thing, you're overlooking the millions of incidents where a good guy with a firearm defends himself. You're also overlooking the overwhelming evidence in other countries where banning civilian gun ownership does not result in less violent crime or a decreasing murder rate.

You're gonna have to think beyond soundbites here.



Riiight. Are firearm owners ALWAYS home with their weapons?

See how foolish you look?

Well the more believable stats I've seen are about 100,000 defenses per year. And last I checked there were like 232,000 guns stolen per year. Not a good ratio. How many of those defenders needed a gun because some other gun owner armed the criminal?

Btw, I'm not for banning guns. I want universal background checks, registration, and magazine capacity limits.

oh and BTW, the NRA, who you continue to bash has been pushing for safe storga legislaation as a way to prevent gun theft for years. they have even conducted studies that show states that do have safe storage legiislation report like 26% less gun thefts on average. Why don't you gun grabbing morons ever consider sensible legislation as recommended by the most significant resource on guns? instead you continue to attack people rights and pass legislation that has absolutely no benefit

Personally, I agree with the need for safe storage requirements. I have a gun safe and a pistol safe. Unless my guns are being transported or used, they are always locked away. I started the practice when I had small children around. I continue it now out of habit and to protect my investment.

 

[Luddly Neddite]

I agree with you. This is why I believe in magazine cap limits. These shooters are often stopped at reload.

really. give us one real example of where a shooter was stopped at reload. another total lie by brain

See Giffords shooting. Many, many more examples out there.

That one and others were taken down by an unarmed citizen while many shootings take place where an armed citizen didn't stop the shooter.

 

[Luddly Neddite]

Well the more believable stats I've seen are about 100,000 defenses per year. And last I checked there were like 232,000 guns stolen per year. Not a good ratio. How many of those defenders needed a gun because some other gun owner armed the criminal?

Btw, I'm not for banning guns. I want universal background checks, registration, and magazine capacity limits.

oh and BTW, the NRA, who you continue to bash has been pushing for safe storga legislaation as a way to prevent gun theft for years. they have even conducted studies that show states that do have safe storage legiislation report like 26% less gun thefts on average. Why don't you gun grabbing morons ever consider sensible legislation as recommended by the most significant resource on guns? instead you continue to attack people rights and pass legislation that has absolutely no benefit

Personally, I agree with the need for safe storage requirements. I have a gun safe and a pistol safe. Unless my guns are being transported or used, they are always locked away. I started the practice when I had small children around. I continue it now out of habit and to protect my investment.

Same here.

 

[eflatminor]

Personally, I agree with the need for safe storage requirements. I have a gun safe and a pistol safe. Unless my guns are being transported or used, they are always locked away. I started the practice when I had small children around. I continue it now out of habit and to protect my investment.

I too agree with the need for safe storage. When I leave the house, the firearms go into the safe. I suffered a burglary once. They did NOT get into the safe and therefore no firearms were taken.

However, imposing such a requirement by government brings on all kinds of issues, such as restricting the rights of poor people who may not be able to afford a safe.

 

[WinterBorn]

Personally, I agree with the need for safe storage requirements. I have a gun safe and a pistol safe. Unless my guns are being transported or used, they are always locked away. I started the practice when I had small children around. I continue it now out of habit and to protect my investment.

I too agree with the need for safe storage. When I leave the house, the firearms go into the safe. I suffered a burglary once. They did NOT get into the safe and therefore no firearms were taken.

However, imposing such a requirement by government brings on all kinds of issues, such as restricting the rights of poor people who may not be able to afford a safe.

Stack-On makes an 8 gun cabinet that sells for under $150. There are several manufacturers that make pistol safes for under $100. If you can't spend $100 on safe storage you obviously aren't going to be practicing much.

 

[WinterBorn]

Another complaint I hear from those who dislike the idea of a gun safe is that they cannot get to the gun in an emergency.

My g/f keeps her revolver in her nightstand. I keep my lock box on the bottom shelf of my nightstand. I sleep on the side of the bed towards the door. Late one night we were awakened by the sound of a huge crash and the dog going crazy. We both reacted by grabbing our gun and heading to the bedroom door. I got there first. So my lock box id not slow me down enough to matter. And it cost me just under $200 (3 or 4 years ago).

Luckily it turned out that a big tree limb had fallen against the house, but when the noise wakes you up you have more trouble identifying it.

 

[eflatminor]

Personally, I agree with the need for safe storage requirements. I have a gun safe and a pistol safe. Unless my guns are being transported or used, they are always locked away. I started the practice when I had small children around. I continue it now out of habit and to protect my investment.

I too agree with the need for safe storage. When I leave the house, the firearms go into the safe. I suffered a burglary once. They did NOT get into the safe and therefore no firearms were taken.

However, imposing such a requirement by government brings on all kinds of issues, such as restricting the rights of poor people who may not be able to afford a safe.

Stack-On makes an 8 gun cabinet that sells for under $150. There are several manufacturers that make pistol safes for under $100. If you can't spend $100 on safe storage you obviously aren't going to be practicing much.

Reasonable point.

 

[WinterBorn]

I too agree with the need for safe storage. When I leave the house, the firearms go into the safe. I suffered a burglary once. They did NOT get into the safe and therefore no firearms were taken.

However, imposing such a requirement by government brings on all kinds of issues, such as restricting the rights of poor people who may not be able to afford a safe.

Stack-On makes an 8 gun cabinet that sells for under $150. There are several manufacturers that make pistol safes for under $100. If you can't spend $100 on safe storage you obviously aren't going to be practicing much.

Reasonable point.

Thank you. I try to be a reasonable sort of fellow.

 

[Little-Acorn]

Most people seem to be missing the most important reason why all law-abiding citizens should be able to carry a gun wherever they want.

If concealed carry by responsible adults is allowed, most still won't bother to carry. But a few will. And a whacko who wants to mow down a bunch of kids in a school, or a bunch of people in a shopping mall, will know there's a pretty good chance he'll get stopped very quickly if he pulls out his weapon and starts shooting... and he won't know where the bullet will come from, so he can't take out that person in advance. And so, he'll be less likely to even try it in the first place, knowing that he probably won't succeed.

Many of these whackos aren't afraid to die. Many of them kill themselves when the cops finally start closing in. But even those want to rack up a huge body count before they die, to generate lurid headlines for weeks after they're gone. And the chance that they'll get stopped within their first few shots, will make a difference even to the insane ones who want all the headlines.

That's the greatest advantage of concealed carry. Not just blowing away the criminal after he fires the first few shots. But in stopping him from even trying in the first place. Even though he knows that most people where he's committing his crime still don't have guns, he knows that one or two might... and he won't know which one(s). A far different situation from what these shooters face today at our schools, shopping malls, and other so-called "gun-free zones".

 

[martybegan]

Personally, I agree with the need for safe storage requirements. I have a gun safe and a pistol safe. Unless my guns are being transported or used, they are always locked away. I started the practice when I had small children around. I continue it now out of habit and to protect my investment.

I too agree with the need for safe storage. When I leave the house, the firearms go into the safe. I suffered a burglary once. They did NOT get into the safe and therefore no firearms were taken.

However, imposing such a requirement by government brings on all kinds of issues, such as restricting the rights of poor people who may not be able to afford a safe.

There is a need for it, however the people who want to pass laws that start with this do just that, they are only STARTING with it. They add requirements like having the gun unloaded, requiring the gun to be in the safe AT ALL TIMES. Then they will get into the number of guns you can have, and the usual downward slope begins.

 

[Spoonman]

So if guns are stolen from gun owners, aren't gun owners arming criminals? Sounds like gun ownership does more damage than good. NRA says you need a gun to protect your stuff, but owners get their guns stolen? Ouch.

if liberals didn't place restrictive gun laws on us making it impossible to carry our weapons as the 2nd amendment intended, gun owners wouldn't spend so much time separated from there guns now would we?

Stolen guns are the fault of liberals and their restrictive laws

EXACTLY what are those restrictive gun laws on us making it impossible to carry our weapons as the 2nd amendment intended liberals have placed on you?

i work in NYC, I can not carry a gun in NYC. My gun sits at home and could be stolen.

If i live in NJ, i can get a permit to carry my gun to the range. i have to put it locked in the trunk and the bullets locked in the glove box. but if i an going to work or the store i have to leave the gun at home. you can't get a craay permit. my gun could be stolen.

 

[Spoonman]

Another complaint I hear from those who dislike the idea of a gun safe is that they cannot get to the gun in an emergency.

My g/f keeps her revolver in her nightstand. I keep my lock box on the bottom shelf of my nightstand. I sleep on the side of the bed towards the door. Late one night we were awakened by the sound of a huge crash and the dog going crazy. We both reacted by grabbing our gun and heading to the bedroom door. I got there first. So my lock box id not slow me down enough to matter. And it cost me just under $200 (3 or 4 years ago).

Luckily it turned out that a big tree limb had fallen against the house, but when the noise wakes you up you have more trouble identifying it.

and i think when you are in your house you have it accessible. the point of the safe is when you leave the premise

 

[Little-Acorn]

i work in NYC, I can not carry a gun in NYC. My gun sits at home and could be stolen.

If i live in NJ, i can get a permit to carry my gun to the range.

That's mighty white of them.

i have to put it locked in the trunk and the bullets locked in the glove box. but if i an going to work or the store i have to leave the gun at home. you can't get a craay permit. my gun could be stolen.

Yup, lots of bad things can happen when the government deliberately and repeatedly violates the U.S. Constitution.

 

[Spoonman]

I agree with you. This is why I believe in magazine cap limits. These shooters are often stopped at reload.

really. give us one real example of where a shooter was stopped at reload. another total lie by brain

See Giffords shooting. Many, many more examples out there.

ok give me a few others.

and i'm glad you brought this one up. you do know loughner bought his weapon after undergoing a background check and passing. So remeind us again how background checks are going to prevent these incidents like you claim.