PolitiFact Sheet: 3 things to know about the 'gun show loophole'

[Chuz Life]

This is for those of you who believe there aren't that many private sales taking place or that most are to friends and family.
I'll just post a few but if you google gun classifieds you'll get pages and pages.


Shooter Swap

BUY SELL TRADE GUNS ONLINE. USED GUNS. TEXAS GUN SHOW | CLASSIFIEDS | AUCTIONS

Free Gun Classifieds - Buy Used Guns

Gun Classifieds | Free Local Used and New Gun Classified Listings. Pistols, Rifles, Shotguns, Ammo, Antique and Collectible Guns, and Gun Accessories. - gunlistings.org

Ad Listings - Idaho Gun Classifieds

Free Gun Classifieds. Buy and Sell Firearms Online.

Guns Classifieds

Damn!

I see your point!

So, Shut em all down and your prohibition on guns just might be as much of a success as the prohibitions on recreational drugs has been!

wait. . .

 

[Hutch Starskey]

About 15 years ago I went to a gun show and met a man in the parking lot and bought a 30 30 rifle and never even went into the display area. That's how it works.

Did he know you to be a felon, if not it has no bearing on this discussion.

Isn't that the problem with such a transaction?

No, it's not a problem, except for tyrant wannabes.

So as long as the seller is in the clear than it's all good?

if the seller is breaking the law he will be caught....he will get snitched out by the criminal when they are caught using the gun.......what is it about that process you guys can't understand....

Please....explain how a straw buyer would be stopped by a universal background check in a private sale.......

Like I said you miss the point.
Whether the seller knowingly sold to a felon or unknowingly sold to a felon, the result is the same. The felon has a gun.The problem is that without a check the seller has no way of knowing.

 

[Hutch Starskey]

This is for those of you who believe there aren't that many private sales taking place or that most are to friends and family.
I'll just post a few but if you google gun classifieds you'll get pages and pages.


Shooter Swap

BUY SELL TRADE GUNS ONLINE. USED GUNS. TEXAS GUN SHOW | CLASSIFIEDS | AUCTIONS

Free Gun Classifieds - Buy Used Guns

Gun Classifieds | Free Local Used and New Gun Classified Listings. Pistols, Rifles, Shotguns, Ammo, Antique and Collectible Guns, and Gun Accessories. - gunlistings.org

Ad Listings - Idaho Gun Classifieds

Free Gun Classifieds. Buy and Sell Firearms Online.

Guns Classifieds

Damn!

I see your point!

So, Shut em all down and your prohibition on guns just might be as much of a success as the prohibitions on recreational drugs has been!

wait. . .

Or don't shut them down and add checks to the transactions.

 

[OKTexas]

This is for those of you who believe there aren't that many private sales taking place or that most are to friends and family.
I'll just post a few but if you google gun classifieds you'll get pages and pages.


Shooter Swap

BUY SELL TRADE GUNS ONLINE. USED GUNS. TEXAS GUN SHOW | CLASSIFIEDS | AUCTIONS

Free Gun Classifieds - Buy Used Guns

Gun Classifieds | Free Local Used and New Gun Classified Listings. Pistols, Rifles, Shotguns, Ammo, Antique and Collectible Guns, and Gun Accessories. - gunlistings.org

Ad Listings - Idaho Gun Classifieds

Free Gun Classifieds. Buy and Sell Firearms Online.

Guns Classifieds

If you bothered to look, most of the ads are dealers.

 

[Chuz Life]

Did he know you to be a felon, if not it has no bearing on this discussion.

Isn't that the problem with such a transaction?

No, it's not a problem, except for tyrant wannabes.

So as long as the seller is in the clear than it's all good?

if the seller is breaking the law he will be caught....he will get snitched out by the criminal when they are caught using the gun.......what is it about that process you guys can't understand....

Please....explain how a straw buyer would be stopped by a universal background check in a private sale.......

Like I said you miss the point.
Whether the seller knowingly sold to a felon or unknowingly sold to a felon, the result is the same. The felon has a gun.The problem is that without a check the seller has no way of knowing.

Tell me something, shitstain. . . . how safe is a private individual going to be if he places a weapon up for sale and the ex con who shows up to buy the weapon is suddenly surprised by the seller with an intent to run a background check?

 

[OKTexas]

Did he know you to be a felon, if not it has no bearing on this discussion.

Isn't that the problem with such a transaction?

No, it's not a problem, except for tyrant wannabes.

So as long as the seller is in the clear than it's all good?

if the seller is breaking the law he will be caught....he will get snitched out by the criminal when they are caught using the gun.......what is it about that process you guys can't understand....

Please....explain how a straw buyer would be stopped by a universal background check in a private sale.......

Like I said you miss the point.
Whether the seller knowingly sold to a felon or unknowingly sold to a felon, the result is the same. The felon has a gun.The problem is that without a check the seller has no way of knowing.

So you claim this is a substantial problem, but you have yet to prove it to be the case. Claims don't cut it, prove it justifies rewriting the law.

 

[Divine Wind]

So what, fuck it right?
No skin off my back. Whether I sell it to him or someone else does he'll still get it.

Except when the girlfriend signs that form saying that she is buying the gun for herself and not for another party who is unable to purchase it themselves and is doing so under the threat of a felony charge, then maybe she won't do it.
As it stands now he'll come to your home in answer to your Craigslist ad and buy it from your shady ass himself with no questions asked.

First, straw purchases are illegal. Just enforce present law.

Second, you can't sell guns on Craigslist. craigslist | about > prohibited

 

[TooTall]

In Illinois you have to keep record of your sale for ten years if you are a private sale while also making sure the buyer has a FOID card.

I forgot the name of that crazy woman in the 1980's that caused most of the gun law changes within the state but she killed herself and if I remember some kids and the mother...

Gun laws in Illinois - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

How are those laws working out in Chicago where there seem to be a lot of guns and shooting deaths?

 

[kaz]

There is no universal check for PRIVATE gun sales, what part of that don't you understand?

Randal correctly said that, you keep arguing there are universal checks for LICENSED dealers. You aren't contradicting him

It's there for everyone to see dope. He asserted it more than once from the beginning.

Can you clarify what you think you're arguing? I thought you said that he said private gun sales are subject to background checks. Clearly he did not say that. He said they are not subject to background checks. What is it you think he said you think is wrong? Maybe I'm misunderstanding you

You're wrong.
I gave you a quote.
I said there is no federal law requiring background checks for private sales.
He responded with "bullshit".

That's pretty clear.

He keeps saying there is no Federal law requiring background checks for private sales as well, how does that make you think he's saying there is a Federal law requiring sales for background checks?

And he explained what he said "bullshit" to. You made it sound like there are mostly private sales going on at those events. He said his experience is they are mostly licensed dealers who do have to do background checks. Did you read his whole post or just the "bullshit?"

I'm not the only one calling him on it dude.
How can you be this far into a thread and still be so hopelessly lost?

He said "bullshit" and you proceeded to not grasp a word

 

[2aguy]

Did he know you to be a felon, if not it has no bearing on this discussion.

Isn't that the problem with such a transaction?

No, it's not a problem, except for tyrant wannabes.

So as long as the seller is in the clear than it's all good?

if the seller is breaking the law he will be caught....he will get snitched out by the criminal when they are caught using the gun.......what is it about that process you guys can't understand....

Please....explain how a straw buyer would be stopped by a universal background check in a private sale.......

Like I said you miss the point.
Whether the seller knowingly sold to a felon or unknowingly sold to a felon, the result is the same. The felon has a gun.The problem is that without a check the seller has no way of knowing.

And with the background check the felon will use his sister who has a clean record to buy the gun...just like they do at licensed gun dealers....with current background checks...

All you will have accomplished is make the price of my old gun go up because it now costs more because the buyer has to pay for a background check.

 

[2aguy]

And another major reason to oppose universal background checks....

The gun control Bait and Switch......read the following....

you think that universal background checks are meant to stop felons......and since I have shown you they won't, why do the gun grabbers keep pushing them.......

How Everytown’s background check law impedes firearms safety training and self-defense



The Bloomberg system applies to every firearms “transfer.” In normal firearms law, a “transfer” means “a permanent exchange of title or possession and does not include gratuitous temporary exchanges or loans.” Chow v. State. 393 Md. 431, 473, 903 A.2d 388, 413 (2006).



However, the Bloomberg laws create a very different definition. For example, the Washington state law says that “ ‘Transfer’ means the intended delivery of a firearm to another person without consideration of payment or promise of payment including, but not limited to, gifts and loans.” Rev. Code Wash. § 9.41.010(25).

In other words, it applies to sharing a gun while target shooting on one’s own property, or to lending a gun to a neighbor for a weekend hunting trip.

Under the Bloomberg system, transfers may take place only at a gun store. The transfer must be conducted exactly as if the retailer were selling a firearm out of her inventory. So the transferee (the neighbor borrowing the hunting gun) must fill out ATF Form 4473; the retailer must contact the FBI or its state counterpart for a background check on the transferee; and then, the retailer must take custody of the gun and record the acquisition in her Acquisition and Disposition book. Finally, the retailer hands the gun to the transferee and records the disposition in her Acquisition and Disposition book. A few days later, after the hunting trip is over, the process must be repeated for the neighbor to return the gun to the owner; this time, the owner will be the “transferee,” who will fill out Form 4473 and undergo the background check.
--------------
Safety training

Sensible firearms policy should encourage, not impede, safety instruction. The Bloomberg laws do just the opposite. They do so by making ordinary safety training impossible unless it takes place at a corporate target range. (The federal S. 374 allows transfers “at a shooting range located in or on premises owned or occupied by a duly incorporated organization organized for conservation purposes or to foster proficiency in firearms.”)


----

Another element of safety instruction is teaching students how to safely load and unload a gun. This is typically done by using real guns along with inert dummy ammunition. (The dummy ammunition is orange so that it can instantly be distinguished from real ammunition.) During the course of instruction, the instructors and students may “transfer” firearms dozens of times, with each transfer lasting only seconds or minutes.

Under the Bloomberg laws, the above activities are allowed only if they take place at a firing range owned by a corporation.

Pre-Bloomberg, these classes had been commonly offered in office buildings, churches, schools, and homes.

Limiting the classes to target ranges makes the classes much more inconvenient.

Target ranges are often located on the outskirts of town, not where most people live.

In rural areas, there may be many places where shooting is lawful and safe, but the nearest corporate-owned shooting range may be far away.

The likely result will be fewer people taking safety classes. ( And this is the goal....)
***************
The next article in the series...private sharing on private property, with a link to long term storage article...

Sharing firearms for informal target shooting: Another legitimate activity outlawed by Everytown’s ‘universal background checks’

Here are two things that a person might do with a firearm: 1. Sell the firearm to a complete stranger in a parking lot. 2. Share the firearm with a friend, while target shooting on one’s own property. Michael Bloomberg’s “Everytown” lobby is promoting “universal background checks” as a means of addressing activity No. 1. But the Bloomberg laws also outlaw activity No. 2. In a previous post, I detailed how the unusual Bloomberg laws about “background checks” for “private sales” constrict safety training and self-defense; and also obstruct safe storage. This post addresses another non-sales activity, firearms sharing.
*************
How background checks affect long term storage when owner is away and wants to leave guns with friends...
Safe storage of firearms: The harms from Bloomberg’s strange background check system
Although the Bloomberg system is promoted as addressing private sales of firearms, the Bloomberg laws as written apply to all firearms loans — whether for a few seconds or a few weeks. There are some limited exceptions (e.g., certain family members, or at a corporate target range). But these exceptions do not apply to safe storage situations.

Consider a person who will be away from home for an extended period, such as a member of the armed services being deployed overseas, a person going away to school, a family going on a long vacation, or someone evacuating her home due to a natural disaster. Such persons might wish to store firearms with a trusted friend or neighbor for months or years. Under the Bloomberg system, for the friend or neighbor to store the firearms, the following procedures must be followed:

The owner and the bailee must find a gun store that is willing to process the loan. The store must treat the loan as if it were selling a firearm out of its inventory. Under the threat of a five-year federal prison sentence for perjury, the bailee and gun store must answer the dozens of questions on ATF Form 4473. Next, the gun store contacts the FBI or a state counterpart for permission to proceed with the sale. Under ideal circumstances, permission to proceed is granted in less than 10 minutes.

The retailer then logs the gun into his Acquisition and Disposition record book, as an acquisition. He next logs the gun out of the record book, as a disposition. He hands the firearm to the bailee.

The process must be followed for every firearm.

If there are two are more handguns, the store must send additional forms to the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives. Depending on the state, a fee is charged for each background check requested.

The gun store, of course, will process this transaction only if it can charge a fee to compensate it for handling the paperwork. Unlike with an inventory sale, the gun store is not making any profit on the gun itself.

Later, when the bailor returns and is ready to take custody of her firearms, the entire process must be repeated, with bailor and bailee both taking all the guns to the gun store, before they may be returned to the bailor.

 

[OKTexas]

Isn't that the problem with such a transaction?

No, it's not a problem, except for tyrant wannabes.

So as long as the seller is in the clear than it's all good?

if the seller is breaking the law he will be caught....he will get snitched out by the criminal when they are caught using the gun.......what is it about that process you guys can't understand....

Please....explain how a straw buyer would be stopped by a universal background check in a private sale.......

Like I said you miss the point.
Whether the seller knowingly sold to a felon or unknowingly sold to a felon, the result is the same. The felon has a gun.The problem is that without a check the seller has no way of knowing.

And with the background check the felon will use his sister who has a clean record to buy the gun...just like they do at licensed gun dealers....with current background checks...

All you will have accomplished is make the price of my old gun go up because it now costs more because the buyer has to pay for a background check.

The real problem is the ghetto dwellers in cities think they fucking know it all, most have never seen how the rest of the country lives.

 

[Hutch Starskey]

So what, fuck it right?
No skin off my back. Whether I sell it to him or someone else does he'll still get it.

Except when the girlfriend signs that form saying that she is buying the gun for herself and not for another party who is unable to purchase it themselves and is doing so under the threat of a felony charge, then maybe she won't do it.
As it stands now he'll come to your home in answer to your Craigslist ad and buy it from your shady ass himself with no questions asked.

First, straw purchases are illegal. Just enforce present law.

Second, you can't sell guns on Craigslist. craigslist | about > prohibited

You can't do the transaction online but you can advertise all you wish online.

 

[Hutch Starskey]

It's there for everyone to see dope. He asserted it more than once from the beginning.

Can you clarify what you think you're arguing? I thought you said that he said private gun sales are subject to background checks. Clearly he did not say that. He said they are not subject to background checks. What is it you think he said you think is wrong? Maybe I'm misunderstanding you

You're wrong.
I gave you a quote.
I said there is no federal law requiring background checks for private sales.
He responded with "bullshit".

That's pretty clear.

He keeps saying there is no Federal law requiring background checks for private sales as well, how does that make you think he's saying there is a Federal law requiring sales for background checks?

And he explained what he said "bullshit" to. You made it sound like there are mostly private sales going on at those events. He said his experience is they are mostly licensed dealers who do have to do background checks. Did you read his whole post or just the "bullshit?"

I'm not the only one calling him on it dude.
How can you be this far into a thread and still be so hopelessly lost?

He said "bullshit" and you proceeded to not grasp a word

Dope.
Read the thread. Others called him on it as well. You are the only one questioning it.

 

[Campbell]

PolitiFact Sheet: 3 things to know about the 'gun show loophole'


Calling it 'gun show' is imprecise because the gaping loophole in the federal law is much bigger than gun show...

Call it the gun-show-flea-market-parking-lot-craigs-list-garage-sale-internet-trailer-park loophole.

Professors at Northeastern and Harvard universities conducted a gun survey in 2015 that isn’t yet published. The national survey of 4,000 non-institutionalized adults found that 22 percent of the people who purchased guns -- at gun shows, stores or elsewhere -- underwent no background check, said Matthew Miller, professor of Health Sciences and Epidemiology at Northeastern University and co-director of the Harvard Injury Control Research Center.

When researchers excluded purchases between family and friends, that number dropped to 15 percent, which equates to approximately 5 million gun owners whose most recent purchase did not involve a background check.

5 Million gun purchases/trades/sales - with no background check.

How many where domestic abusers, dishonorable discharges, mentally ill, no fly lists?

Hell, how many are just suicidal. That ugly secret of gun deaths, the majority are suicides. And the pro-life party is okay with suicidal people owning guns.

Not in Illinois thankfully. You don't even need to adjudicated at mentally ill. If you are admitted to hospital program voluntarily, you lose your state gun permit for 5 years.

That's what I call sensible

Piss Poor logic but I don't care about that. Anybody who thinks an American citizen needs a weapon capable of firing 160RPM with magazines capable of supplying that has their head up their military ass.

Americans need the same weapons as the police and military....otherwise you set up a power differential that never helps the people...just ask the Mexicans who are murdered by their own police and military......who have aligned themselves with the drug cartels...they sure do need AR-15s.....a lot of them...and they can't get them...and they are dying in the 10s of thousands every year....

I was in the U S military for seven years and was familiarized with all weapon types.....a normal civilian does not have any reasonable use for a rapid fire assault weapon. Just because some Numbnuts gets his rocks off with a rifle doesn't mean ordinary people should have to tolerate it. Over half of our population agrees that prospective buyers should be subjected to background checks and just because a person wants a gun doesn't mean they're entitled to one.

 

[Chuz Life]

PolitiFact Sheet: 3 things to know about the 'gun show loophole'


Calling it 'gun show' is imprecise because the gaping loophole in the federal law is much bigger than gun show...

Call it the gun-show-flea-market-parking-lot-craigs-list-garage-sale-internet-trailer-park loophole.

Professors at Northeastern and Harvard universities conducted a gun survey in 2015 that isn’t yet published. The national survey of 4,000 non-institutionalized adults found that 22 percent of the people who purchased guns -- at gun shows, stores or elsewhere -- underwent no background check, said Matthew Miller, professor of Health Sciences and Epidemiology at Northeastern University and co-director of the Harvard Injury Control Research Center.

When researchers excluded purchases between family and friends, that number dropped to 15 percent, which equates to approximately 5 million gun owners whose most recent purchase did not involve a background check.

5 Million gun purchases/trades/sales - with no background check.

How many where domestic abusers, dishonorable discharges, mentally ill, no fly lists?

Hell, how many are just suicidal. That ugly secret of gun deaths, the majority are suicides. And the pro-life party is okay with suicidal people owning guns.

Not in Illinois thankfully. You don't even need to adjudicated at mentally ill. If you are admitted to hospital program voluntarily, you lose your state gun permit for 5 years.

That's what I call sensible

Piss Poor logic but I don't care about that. Anybody who thinks an American citizen needs a weapon capable of firing 160RPM with magazines capable of supplying that has their head up their military ass.

Americans need the same weapons as the police and military....otherwise you set up a power differential that never helps the people...just ask the Mexicans who are murdered by their own police and military......who have aligned themselves with the drug cartels...they sure do need AR-15s.....a lot of them...and they can't get them...and they are dying in the 10s of thousands every year....

I was in the U S military for seven years and was familiarized with all weapon types.....a normal civilian does not have any reasonable use for a rapid fire assault weapon. Just because some Numbnuts gets his rocks off with a rifle doesn't mean ordinary people should have to tolerate it. Over half of our population agrees that prospective buyers should be subjected to background checks and just because a person wants a gun doesn't mean they're entitled to one.

The Constitution says otherwise.

So go fuck yourself while you take some time to learn a thing or two about what the purpose of the 2nd amendment really is.

 

[kaz]

Can you clarify what you think you're arguing? I thought you said that he said private gun sales are subject to background checks. Clearly he did not say that. He said they are not subject to background checks. What is it you think he said you think is wrong? Maybe I'm misunderstanding you

You're wrong.
I gave you a quote.
I said there is no federal law requiring background checks for private sales.
He responded with "bullshit".

That's pretty clear.

He keeps saying there is no Federal law requiring background checks for private sales as well, how does that make you think he's saying there is a Federal law requiring sales for background checks?

And he explained what he said "bullshit" to. You made it sound like there are mostly private sales going on at those events. He said his experience is they are mostly licensed dealers who do have to do background checks. Did you read his whole post or just the "bullshit?"

I'm not the only one calling him on it dude.
How can you be this far into a thread and still be so hopelessly lost?

He said "bullshit" and you proceeded to not grasp a word

Dope.
Read the thread. Others called him on it as well. You are the only one questioning it.

Yet you can't provide a single quote where he said that. The one you provided so far had him saying that there is no gun check for private sales

 

[Divine Wind]

So what, fuck it right?
No skin off my back. Whether I sell it to him or someone else does he'll still get it.

Except when the girlfriend signs that form saying that she is buying the gun for herself and not for another party who is unable to purchase it themselves and is doing so under the threat of a felony charge, then maybe she won't do it.
As it stands now he'll come to your home in answer to your Craigslist ad and buy it from your shady ass himself with no questions asked.

First, straw purchases are illegal. Just enforce present law.

Second, you can't sell guns on Craigslist. craigslist | about > prohibited

You can't do the transaction online but you can advertise all you wish online.

Doubling down on your erroneous comment?? Dude, you can't sell guns on Craigslist. It's prohibited. Didn't you read the link?

 

[Hutch Starskey]

You're wrong.
I gave you a quote.
I said there is no federal law requiring background checks for private sales.
He responded with "bullshit".

That's pretty clear.

He keeps saying there is no Federal law requiring background checks for private sales as well, how does that make you think he's saying there is a Federal law requiring sales for background checks?

And he explained what he said "bullshit" to. You made it sound like there are mostly private sales going on at those events. He said his experience is they are mostly licensed dealers who do have to do background checks. Did you read his whole post or just the "bullshit?"

I'm not the only one calling him on it dude.
How can you be this far into a thread and still be so hopelessly lost?

He said "bullshit" and you proceeded to not grasp a word

Dope.
Read the thread. Others called him on it as well. You are the only one questioning it.

Yet you can't provide a single quote where he said that. The one you provided so far had him saying that there is no gun check for private sales

I gave you the fucking quote. Accept it or don't dope. I'm done with this.

 

[Hutch Starskey]

So what, fuck it right?
No skin off my back. Whether I sell it to him or someone else does he'll still get it.

Except when the girlfriend signs that form saying that she is buying the gun for herself and not for another party who is unable to purchase it themselves and is doing so under the threat of a felony charge, then maybe she won't do it.
As it stands now he'll come to your home in answer to your Craigslist ad and buy it from your shady ass himself with no questions asked.

First, straw purchases are illegal. Just enforce present law.

Second, you can't sell guns on Craigslist. craigslist | about > prohibited

You can't do the transaction online but you can advertise all you wish online.

Doubling down on your erroneous comment?? Dude, you can't sell guns on Craigslist. It's prohibited. Didn't you read the link?

I said online, not Craigslist dope.