Poll: Americans Want Obama to Negotiate

[jon_berzerk]

It's so simple. both sides are fucking wrong. in 2006 the stories were reversed. And they were both wrong then too....

Facts are we have to cut back on spending. The problem is that the two sides refuse to admit it. If they have control that is....

One side wants to cut spending and taxes.
The other side wants more taxes and more spending.

And they are still both wrong.

Best solution is to create more jobs to create a better tax base. And cut spending. But then that's just my own opinion........

the only way we are going to cut spending or at least balance the budget

is from a grass roots movement from the bottom up

it is well under way

 

[P@triot]

Let me just remind ya'll that social programs are not social-ISM.

I know that confuses the hell out of many of you.

They aren't?!? Now that is hilarious...

This is the idiot equivalent of those morons who say oral sex is not sex.

Here's a hint stupid - when something has the world in it (social programs), it is that thing (socialism)...

Dumbocrats get dumber by the day...

 

[P@triot]

Here Are Three Debt-Ceiling Lies You’ll Hear From the GOP This Week

2. Obama is a big hypocrite because he voted against a debt-limit increase while Bush was president.

Yes, he did cast such a vote, but no, he’s not a hypocrite, not even a small one. The reason is simple. Democrats made no threats when they cast their votes. They knew they were going to lose and had no real intention of winning.

It was March 16, 2006, when Obama cast the fateful vote. But the Democrats’ votes, Obama’s included, were purely symbolic. The Republicans controlled the Senate at the time, 55-45. The increase in the debt limit, the fourth in George W. Bush’s tenure, passed, 52-48, with three Republicans voting with all the Democrats.

But the Democrats knew they were going to lose. They were in the minority; duh. They did not choose to filibuster, which they could have done and which would have meant the Republicans needed 60 votes. If they’d done so, that would have been hardball, and in that case, Obama would have been a participant in a real threat against American creditworthiness. Even then it wouldn’t have been the same as what the GOP is doing now, unless those 45 Democrats had demanded, oh, that Bush rescind his tax cuts or his Medicare Part D bill or some other signal legislative achievement.

But the Democrats did no such thing. They cast symbolic votes to force Republicans to vote to increase the debt limit. So Obama’s 2006 vote means nothing and bears no resemblance to what’s going on today.​

So IOW, rather than do the right thing and vote for an increase in the debt ceiling, they instead chose to play petty partisan politics because their base loathed Bush. If symbolism means nothing, why did they do it?

Rationalization, confirmation bias and partisanship aren't just the provinces of the Right.

Symbolism


1. the practice of representing things by symbols, or of investing things with a symbolic meaning or character.

Is a symbolic vote that you KNOW does nothing the same as shutting down the government and defaulting? No.

Symbolic of what you fuck'n immature parasite?!? Do you have any idea what a moron you sound like [MENTION=24452]Seawytch[/MENTION]?

Are you really such a fuck'n child that you can't comprehend that the representatives are NOT sent to Washington to cast "symbolic votes"?

Do you realize you're such a fuck'n child, that you cannot criticize the Dumbocrats no matter what they do? You wildly jump from one foot to the next until you trip over yourself desperately trying to find a way to defend something they did?

You are one seriously fucked up little slave. Doesn't matter what they do - you'll defend it. XXXXXXX

 

[Seawytch]

So IOW, rather than do the right thing and vote for an increase in the debt ceiling, they instead chose to play petty partisan politics because their base loathed Bush. If symbolism means nothing, why did they do it?

Rationalization, confirmation bias and partisanship aren't just the provinces of the Right.

Symbolism


1. the practice of representing things by symbols, or of investing things with a symbolic meaning or character.

Is a symbolic vote that you KNOW does nothing the same as shutting down the government and defaulting? No.

Symbolic of what you fuck'n immature parasite?!? Do you have any idea what a moron you sound like [MENTION=24452]Seawytch[/MENTION]?

Are you really such a fuck'n child that you can't comprehend that the representatives are NOT sent to Washington to cast "symbolic votes"?

Do you realize you're such a fuck'n child, that you cannot criticize the Dumbocrats no matter what they do? You wildly jump from one foot to the next until you trip over yourself desperately trying to find a way to defend something they did?

You are one seriously fucked up little slave. Doesn't matter what they do - you'll defend it. XXXXXXX

What do you think the two score votes in the House to repeal the ACA were? The House GOP knew they were never going to get a repeal past the Senate and President Obama would never sign such a bill.

The difference is that when Senator Obama and others cast their symbolic vote, they did not throw a tantrum and shut down the government or threaten to default because they could not accomplish their goals legislatively. Know what they did then? They won elections.

 

[P@triot]

Symbolic of what you fuck'n immature parasite?!? Do you have any idea what a moron you sound like [MENTION=24452]Seawytch[/MENTION]?

Are you really such a fuck'n child that you can't comprehend that the representatives are NOT sent to Washington to cast "symbolic votes"?

Do you realize you're such a fuck'n child, that you cannot criticize the Dumbocrats no matter what they do? You wildly jump from one foot to the next until you trip over yourself desperately trying to find a way to defend something they did?

You are one seriously fucked up little slave. Doesn't matter what they do - you'll defend it. XXXXXXX

What do you think the two score votes in the House to repeal the ACA were? The House GOP knew they were never going to get a repeal past the Senate and President Obama would never sign such a bill.

The difference is that when Senator Obama and others cast their symbolic vote, they did not throw a tantrum and shut down the government or threaten to default because they could not accomplish their goals legislatively. Know what they did then? They won elections.

Symbolic of what [MENTION=24452]Seawytch[/MENTION]? You didn't answer the question - you ran from it (as usual). What were Obama and the Dumbocrats "symbolizing" when they ranted against raising the debt ceiling and then voted against it?

 

[Seawytch]

What do you think the two score votes in the House to repeal the ACA were? The House GOP knew they were never going to get a repeal past the Senate and President Obama would never sign such a bill.

The difference is that when Senator Obama and others cast their symbolic vote, they did not throw a tantrum and shut down the government or threaten to default because they could not accomplish their goals legislatively. Know what they did then? They won elections.

Symbolic of what [MENTION=24452]Seawytch[/MENTION]? You didn't answer the question - you ran from it (as usual). What were Obama and the Dumbocrats "symbolizing" when they ranted against raising the debt ceiling and then voted against it?

Spending on the unnecessary war.

 

[P@triot]

Symbolic of what [MENTION=24452]Seawytch[/MENTION]? You didn't answer the question - you ran from it (as usual). What were Obama and the Dumbocrats "symbolizing" when they ranted against raising the debt ceiling and then voted against it?

Spending on the unnecessary war.

You mean the same "unnecessary" war that the Dumbocrats voted for and which Obama has continued? You mean that "unnecessary" war?

Furthermore, since when do responsible adults - sent to represent the people - intentionally vote against their own wishes and the wishes of their constituents for "symbolism"? You support the buffoon's on the left destroying the nation so they can cast "symbolic" votes?

You continue to prove that the conservatives are the only adults in the room.

 

[JoeB131]

Spending on the unnecessary war.

You mean the same "unnecessary" war that the Dumbocrats voted for and which Obama has continued? You mean that "unnecessary" war?

Furthermore, since when do responsible adults - sent to represent the people - intentionally vote against their own wishes and the wishes of their constituents for "symbolism"? You support the buffoon's on the left destroying the nation so they can cast "symbolic" votes?

You continue to prove that the conservatives are the only adults in the room.

Democrats voted for that war on the assuption that information the PRESIDENT was giving them was on the level.

Which it wasn't, obviously.

 

[Seawytch]

Spending on the unnecessary war.

You mean the same "unnecessary" war that the Dumbocrats voted for and which Obama has continued? You mean that "unnecessary" war?

Furthermore, since when do responsible adults - sent to represent the people - intentionally vote against their own wishes and the wishes of their constituents for "symbolism"? You support the buffoon's on the left destroying the nation so they can cast "symbolic" votes?

You continue to prove that the conservatives are the only adults in the room.

The majority of Americans opposed Iraq at the time they voted. A much greater majority than the "majority" that oppose the ACA (since a huge chunk of those opposed include people who want more liberal health reform.

The Teabillies shut down the government (threw a tantrum) because they couldn't get their agenda passed legislatively (playing by the rules)...tell me that whopper about the GOP being the adults again.

 

[rightwinger]

You mean the same "unnecessary" war that the Dumbocrats voted for and which Obama has continued? You mean that "unnecessary" war?

Furthermore, since when do responsible adults - sent to represent the people - intentionally vote against their own wishes and the wishes of their constituents for "symbolism"? You support the buffoon's on the left destroying the nation so they can cast "symbolic" votes?

You continue to prove that the conservatives are the only adults in the room.

Democrats voted for that war on the assuption that information the PRESIDENT was giving them was on the level.

Which it wasn't, obviously.

Democrats voted for war because Republicans framed it as .....if you don't vote for war you support the terrorists

Democrats like Hillary caved

 

[SFC Ollie]

Democrats voted for that war on the assuption that information the PRESIDENT was giving them was on the level.

Which it wasn't, obviously.

Democrats voted for war because Republicans framed it as .....if you don't vote for war you support the terrorists

Democrats like Hillary caved

Do you really want us to dig up the Hillary quotes about how Saddam had WMD?

 

[deltex1]

I coined a new term today that fits the OP. The word is "negrotiate"...fits the man to a tee....

It means "to negotiate from behind an impenetrable facade of white guilt, political correctness, reverse racism, and a fawning and fearful fourth estate".

Any questions?

 

[P@triot]

You mean the same "unnecessary" war that the Dumbocrats voted for and which Obama has continued? You mean that "unnecessary" war?

Furthermore, since when do responsible adults - sent to represent the people - intentionally vote against their own wishes and the wishes of their constituents for "symbolism"? You support the buffoon's on the left destroying the nation so they can cast "symbolic" votes?

You continue to prove that the conservatives are the only adults in the room.

The majority of Americans opposed Iraq at the time they voted. A much greater majority than the "majority" that oppose the ACA (since a huge chunk of those opposed include people who want more liberal health reform.

The Teabillies shut down the government (threw a tantrum) because they couldn't get their agenda passed legislatively (playing by the rules)...tell me that whopper about the GOP being the adults again.

First of all, you're making up your own version of history again. You're lying (as usual) about the "majority" and the numbers who opposed the Iraq war.

But more importantly (to this argument), it doesn't matter what the American people thought. They were not casting votes. The representatives in Congress were, and the Dumbocrats supported the war.

Not one single Republican voted for the AHCA. But the majority of Dumbocrats supported operations in Iraq to remove Saddam Hussein.

As far as shutting down the government - they were doing exactly what they were sent to Washington to do - stop the immature Dumbocrats from spending this country into collapse. And they did it legally.

And since Obama and the Dumbocrats whailed and howled about not raising the debt ceiling when Bush was president and when we were $9 trillion LESS in debt than we are now - and your explanation is they were wasting votes for "symbolism" - yes, you have proved that the Republican's are the only adults in the room.

One quick question for you Seawytch... if we're not going to uphold the debt ceiling, why have a debt ceiling? It serves no purpose since you Dumbocrats seem to believe it should be automatically raised without question...

 

[P@triot]

I coined a new term today that fits the OP. The word is "negrotiate"...fits the man to a tee....

It means "to negotiate from behind an impenetrable facade of white guilt, political correctness, reverse racism, and a fawning and fearful fourth estate".

Any questions?

 

[Contumacious]

Poll: Americans Want Obama to Negotiate

Wut?


Why would a man who has a MANdate from the parasitic faction, which constitutes a power house in domestic politics , be required to negotiate?

Was Hitler require to negotiate with the Juden?

Were slave owners require to negotiate with Negroes?

.

 

[JoeB131]

Democrats voted for war because Republicans framed it as .....if you don't vote for war you support the terrorists

Democrats like Hillary caved

Do you really want us to dig up the Hillary quotes about how Saddam had WMD?

Hillary made those quotes on the assumption the information she was getting from the Bush Administration was accurate.

Okay, here's the thing. The intelligence community got it completely wrong and were wrong pretty much back to the Clinton years. Probably because they were overcompensating for how wrong they got it before the Gulf War when they underestimated Saddam's capabilities.

But as Commander in Cheif, it really was Bush's responsibility to make DAMNED SURE Saddam had WMD's before he sent 5000 men off to pointless death.

He didn't do that.

 

[rightwinger]

Democrats voted for war because Republicans framed it as .....if you don't vote for war you support the terrorists

Democrats like Hillary caved

Do you really want us to dig up the Hillary quotes about how Saddam had WMD?

Cost Hillary the Presidency in 2008

 

[Seawytch]

The majority of Americans opposed Iraq at the time they voted. A much greater majority than the "majority" that oppose the ACA (since a huge chunk of those opposed include people who want more liberal health reform.

The Teabillies shut down the government (threw a tantrum) because they couldn't get their agenda passed legislatively (playing by the rules)...tell me that whopper about the GOP being the adults again.

First of all, you're making up your own version of history again. You're lying (as usual) about the "majority" and the numbers who opposed the Iraq war.

No, little Puppy, I'm not lying. The vote occurred in 2006.

60 percent of Americans oppose Iraq war

And that 60 percent did not include people who thought the Iraq war didn't go far enough whereas the ACA opposition includes people who want single payer or a public option.

But more importantly (to this argument), it doesn't matter what the American people thought. They were not casting votes. The representatives in Congress were, and the Dumbocrats supported the war.

Not one single Republican voted for the AHCA. But the majority of Dumbocrats supported operations in Iraq to remove Saddam Hussein.

I'm pretty sure this has been done to death. ALL members of Congress were given bad information. We were literally lied into war with Iraq. We know this now in hindsight. Had they known before we invaded a country that hadn't attacked us and was no threat, the vote may have been quite different.

As far as shutting down the government - they were doing exactly what they were sent to Washington to do - stop the immature Dumbocrats from spending this country into collapse. And they did it legally.

While shutting down the government in a fit of pique may be "legal", it is childish and stupid, but then again so is the modern day GOP now that they have extra crunchy Teabilly berries mixed in.

And since Obama and the Dumbocrats whailed and howled about not raising the debt ceiling when Bush was president and when we were $9 trillion LESS in debt than we are now - and your explanation is they were wasting votes for "symbolism" - yes, you have proved that the Republican's are the only adults in the room.

You like to quote keep quoting only one part of that speech Senator Obama gave about raising the debt ceiling. Did you read the whole speech? Did you catch this part?

“Unfortunately, the principle was abandoned, and now the demands of budget discipline apply only to spending. As a result, tax breaks have not been paid for by reductions in Federal spending, and thus the only way to pay for them has been to increase our deficit to historically high levels and borrow more and more money. Now we have to pay for those tax breaks plus the cost of borrowing for them. Instead of reducing the deficit, as some people claimed, the fiscal policies of this administration and its allies in Congress will add more than $600 million in debt for each of the next five years. That is why I will once again co-sponsor the pay-go amendment and continue to hope that my colleagues will return to a smart rule that has worked in the past and can work again.”

Paygo was re-established in 2010.

One quick question for you Seawytch... if we're not going to uphold the debt ceiling, why have a debt ceiling? It serves no purpose since you Dumbocrats seem to believe it should be automatically raised without question...

I know this isn't something you hear very often, but you're right, we shouldn't have one. It is a nuclear weapon that should be taken out of the hands of every Congress and President.

Have you ever heard the phrase "How things look depend upon where you sit"? If you've served and advanced in the military, you'd understand that phrase in "real time" application.

You keep talking about the Democrats in 2006 opposing raising the debt ceiling and they are hypocritical about it, but what about folks like Senator Grassley (rhymes with Assly) who voted against the most recent raise to the debt ceiling. He followed then Senator Obama on the floor in 2006. Wanna hear what he said? Of course you don't, but here it is anyway:

“Mr. President, I urge my colleagues to vote in favor of final passage. Raising the debt limit is necessary to preserve the full faith and credit of the U.S. government.

“We cannot as a Congress pass spending bills and tax bills and then refuse to pay our bills. Refusing to raise the debt limit is like refusing to pay your credit card bill — after you’ve used your credit card.

“The time to control the deficits and debt is when we are voting on the spending bills and the tax bills that create it. Raising the debt limit is about meeting the obligations we have already incurred. We must meet our obligations. Vote for this bill.”

 

[BDBoop]

Do you really want us to dig up the Hillary quotes about how Saddam had WMD?

Cost Hillary the Presidency in 2008

So wouldn't the same hold true for 2016?

 

[Seawytch]

Cost Hillary the Presidency in 2008

So wouldn't the same hold true for 2016?

Time heals all wounds, as they say.