[POLL] - Liberals, how much is a "fair share?" - Taxes

[Gadawg73]

Barney Frank ended Blue Lining...well financed Blacks who were habitually denied loans based upon locale.

Bullshit. There's no evidence such a thing ever occurred.

In the meanwhile, the "terrified" CEOs ordered every loan officer to not only approve every Black applicant but EVERY application.
And they did it by bypassing the well defined Loan Application software with paper applications.

And yes, I know this because I know someone who is currently auditing THOUSANDS of these approved loans.
How did he get this job?
He never approved a loan without the software.

Yeah, CEOs were "forced"; give me a break!

Yeah, that happened after they started enforcing the CRA. If banks didn't give out a certain number of loans to blacks, qualified or not, the bank were denied permission to expand.

Why would a bank give a loan to an unqualified borrower unless it was forced?

That's what happens when left-wing scumbags start using government's regulatory powers for social engineering.

Ever hear of Fees and Commissions?
I worked on Wall Street for 16 years and all I ever heard from MBAs was, "By the time the sh!t hits the fan, I'll be gone.".
GW, by 2006, knew the economy was NOT recovering from the DOT COM bust so his administration ignored any and all warnings of bad loans and shady investments.
Please provide a list of CEOs who, during the GW years, were approving loans left and right, who were prosecuted; heck...investigated.

Your ideology is blinding you to what actually occurred.

Bull shit. You must have had your head up your ass on the Street.
Bush went to Congress how many times stating that Fannie and Freddie needed to be restructured? The dot com bust had little to no effect on the home building that drove the economy for decades. Dot com stocks were not involved in the financial meltdown from bad loans that were over appraised with little to no oversight on borrowing. "If they breathe fund them" was the cry from mortgage brokers signing them up and AAA ratings on the bundled mortgages for investors.

 

[PMZ]

Basically government enabled banks to screw people. Thanks government! More evidence that both parties should be done away with.

Companies are profit motivated to screw people. They don't need any help from government. In fact, typically, government is in the way of the screwing.

Yet not in this case and many others. Even the government is good at screwing people as you point out in your support of unfair taxes. Companies are profit motivated for profit. Fanny and Freddy just gave them an opportunity to screw people over. This is the governments fault by root cause.

Only if you don't apply the facts.

The facts say that banks thought they'd stuck oil by signing folks up for mortgages that they couldn't afford and then immediately selling them to investors as safe investments. The investors thought that banks still believed in due diligence and bought the risk blindly.

All the while Greenspan fueled the whole gang bang with ultra low interest rates. A good time was had by all until the band needed to be paid. The Great Recession.

 

[PMZ]

Basically government enabled banks to screw people. Thanks government! More evidence that both parties should be done away with.

Companies are profit motivated to screw people. They don't need any help from government. In fact, typically, government is in the way of the screwing.

Yeah, you're a big supporter of capitalism. Not a Marxist bone in your body, is there, worm?

FYI, government screws us all 100 times worse than all the companies who ever wanted to screw us put together. Obamacare is the biggest screwing we've gotten in the last 40 years.

You've never heard of profit motive? Make more money regardless of the cost to others?

 

[PMZ]

Basically government enabled banks to screw people. Thanks government! More evidence that both parties should be done away with.

Companies are profit motivated to screw people. They don't need any help from government. In fact, typically, government is in the way of the screwing.

Government is in the way of the screwing? The truth is, Obama works in concert with his pals who are running a green energy money laundering operation which is plundering our national treasury.

Obama has been instrumental in taxing hard working people's earned wages living in our nation’s inner cities, and then transfer their earned wages to his pals who start up phony green energy businesses whose primary object is to get rich by plundering our national treasury?

Let us take a look at the list who have profited off working people‘s earned wages being transferred to them by Obama:


• Beacon Power Corp: Received $43 million in federal loan guaranteed in 2009 and also received $29 million in PA grants – Bankrupt in October 2011

• Ener1 (parent company of EnerDel): Received $118.5 million in federal loan guarantees — Bankrupt in January 2012 – has since exited bankruptcy

• Evergreen Solar: Received $58 million in MA loan guarantees (an undisclosed portion sourced from federal ARRA block grant) — Bankrupt in August 2011 with $485.6 million in debt

• Solyndra: Received $535 million in federal loan guarantees in 2009 and $25.1 million in CA tax credit — Bankrupt in August 2011

• SpectraWatt: Received $500,000 in federal loan guarantees in 2009 — Bankrupt in August 2011

• Babcock and Brown: Received $178 million in federal grants in December 2009 (4 months after it went bust) – Bankrupt in early 2009

• Mountain Plaza Inc.: Received $424,000 in federal grants through TN Department of Transportation in 2009 — Bankrupt in 2003 and again in June 2010

• Solar Trust of America (parent company: Solar Millennium): Received $2.1 billion loan guarantee in April 2011 – Bankrupt in April 2012
Other Subsidized Green Energy Companies in decline:

• A123: Received $300 million in federal grants and $135 million in MI grants — Declining orders and have forced multiple layoffs

• Amonix, Inc.: Received $5.9 million in federal tax credits in 2009 through ARRA — Laid off 2/3 of work force

• First Solar: Received $3 billion in federal loan guarantees — Biggest S&P loser in 2011, CEO fired

• Fisker Automotive: $529 million in federal loan guarantees — Multiple 2012 sales prediction downgrades for first car release, delivery and cash flow troubles; Assembling cars in Finland

• Johnson Controls: Received $299 million in federal grants in 2009 — Low demand caused cancellation of a new factory, operating at half capacity

• Nevada Geothermal: Received $98.5 million in federal loan guarantees in 2009 — Defaulting on long-term debt obligations, 85% drop in stock value

• Sun Power: Received $1.2 billion in federal loan guarantees — Debt exceeds assets; French oil company took over last fall

• Abound Solar: Received $400 million in federal loans in 2012 — ½ work force laid off

• BrightSource Energy: $1.6 billion federal loan approved in April 2012 – loan obtained through political connections with the administration; absent the loan, Brightsource’s solar power purchase would have fallen through.

see:Green Energy’s Bankruptcy Blackout

BTW, 80% of Obama green jobs money goes to Obama donors.
And you have the nerve to tell us Government is in the way of the screwing?

JWK

"To lay with one hand the power of the government on the property of the citizen and with the other to bestow upon favored individuals, to aid private enterprises and build up private fortunes [Obama’s Solyndra, Chevy Volt, Fisker, Exelon swindling deals] is none the less a robbery because it is done under forms of law and called taxation." ____ Savings and Loan Assc. v. Topeka,(1875).

Technology development is a risky business. Too risky for business. When all is said and done, and the pioneers have taken the risk, there will be huge winners and many losers. But the winners will repower the world. And save the world from the dregs of fossil fuels.

 

[Gadawg73]

Companies are profit motivated to screw people. They don't need any help from government. In fact, typically, government is in the way of the screwing.

Yet not in this case and many others. Even the government is good at screwing people as you point out in your support of unfair taxes. Companies are profit motivated for profit. Fanny and Freddy just gave them an opportunity to screw people over. This is the governments fault by root cause.

Only if you don't apply the facts.

The facts say that banks thought they'd stuck oil by signing folks up for mortgages that they couldn't afford and then immediately selling them to investors as safe investments. The investors thought that banks still believed in due diligence and bought the risk blindly.

All the while Greenspan fueled the whole gang bang with ultra low interest rates. A good time was had by all until the band needed to be paid. The Great Recession.

Where in all of that mumbo jumbo is the due diligence requirement that investors should do on their own before they invest their money?

 

[PMZ]

Yet not in this case and many others. Even the government is good at screwing people as you point out in your support of unfair taxes. Companies are profit motivated for profit. Fanny and Freddy just gave them an opportunity to screw people over. This is the governments fault by root cause.

Only if you don't apply the facts.

The facts say that banks thought they'd stuck oil by signing folks up for mortgages that they couldn't afford and then immediately selling them to investors as safe investments. The investors thought that banks still believed in due diligence and bought the risk blindly.

All the while Greenspan fueled the whole gang bang with ultra low interest rates. A good time was had by all until the band needed to be paid. The Great Recession.

Where in all of that mumbo jumbo is the due diligence requirement that investors should do on their own before they invest their money?

The did their due diligence using their usual source, Standard and Poor's. Who suspected them to be part of the plot.

 

[bripat9643]

Companies are profit motivated to screw people. They don't need any help from government. In fact, typically, government is in the way of the screwing.

Government is in the way of the screwing? The truth is, Obama works in concert with his pals who are running a green energy money laundering operation which is plundering our national treasury.

Obama has been instrumental in taxing hard working people's earned wages living in our nation’s inner cities, and then transfer their earned wages to his pals who start up phony green energy businesses whose primary object is to get rich by plundering our national treasury?

Let us take a look at the list who have profited off working people‘s earned wages being transferred to them by Obama:


• Beacon Power Corp: Received $43 million in federal loan guaranteed in 2009 and also received $29 million in PA grants – Bankrupt in October 2011

• Ener1 (parent company of EnerDel): Received $118.5 million in federal loan guarantees — Bankrupt in January 2012 – has since exited bankruptcy

• Evergreen Solar: Received $58 million in MA loan guarantees (an undisclosed portion sourced from federal ARRA block grant) — Bankrupt in August 2011 with $485.6 million in debt

• Solyndra: Received $535 million in federal loan guarantees in 2009 and $25.1 million in CA tax credit — Bankrupt in August 2011

• SpectraWatt: Received $500,000 in federal loan guarantees in 2009 — Bankrupt in August 2011

• Babcock and Brown: Received $178 million in federal grants in December 2009 (4 months after it went bust) – Bankrupt in early 2009

• Mountain Plaza Inc.: Received $424,000 in federal grants through TN Department of Transportation in 2009 — Bankrupt in 2003 and again in June 2010

• Solar Trust of America (parent company: Solar Millennium): Received $2.1 billion loan guarantee in April 2011 – Bankrupt in April 2012
Other Subsidized Green Energy Companies in decline:

• A123: Received $300 million in federal grants and $135 million in MI grants — Declining orders and have forced multiple layoffs

• Amonix, Inc.: Received $5.9 million in federal tax credits in 2009 through ARRA — Laid off 2/3 of work force

• First Solar: Received $3 billion in federal loan guarantees — Biggest S&P loser in 2011, CEO fired

• Fisker Automotive: $529 million in federal loan guarantees — Multiple 2012 sales prediction downgrades for first car release, delivery and cash flow troubles; Assembling cars in Finland

• Johnson Controls: Received $299 million in federal grants in 2009 — Low demand caused cancellation of a new factory, operating at half capacity

• Nevada Geothermal: Received $98.5 million in federal loan guarantees in 2009 — Defaulting on long-term debt obligations, 85% drop in stock value

• Sun Power: Received $1.2 billion in federal loan guarantees — Debt exceeds assets; French oil company took over last fall

• Abound Solar: Received $400 million in federal loans in 2012 — ½ work force laid off

• BrightSource Energy: $1.6 billion federal loan approved in April 2012 – loan obtained through political connections with the administration; absent the loan, Brightsource’s solar power purchase would have fallen through.

see:Green Energy’s Bankruptcy Blackout

BTW, 80% of Obama green jobs money goes to Obama donors.
And you have the nerve to tell us Government is in the way of the screwing?

JWK

"To lay with one hand the power of the government on the property of the citizen and with the other to bestow upon favored individuals, to aid private enterprises and build up private fortunes [Obama’s Solyndra, Chevy Volt, Fisker, Exelon swindling deals] is none the less a robbery because it is done under forms of law and called taxation." ____ Savings and Loan Assc. v. Topeka,(1875).

Technology development is a risky business. Too risky for business. When all is said and done, and the pioneers have taken the risk, there will be huge winners and many losers. But the winners will repower the world. And save the world from the dregs of fossil fuels.

Business doesn't invest in technology that consumers don't want. That kind is definitely "too risky." Private business developed the airplane, the automobile, the light bulb, telephone, television, radio, transistor, integrated circuit, cell phone, flat screens and countless other innovations, so the idea that technological innovation is "too risky for business" is obvious horseshit put out by goosestepping Obama fluffers.

Green energy is clearly a boondoggle. It's a technology consumers don't want. That's why these "investments" always go down in flames. It's definitely "too risky."

 

[bripat9643]

Only if you don't apply the facts.

The facts say that banks thought they'd stuck oil by signing folks up for mortgages that they couldn't afford and then immediately selling them to investors as safe investments. The investors thought that banks still believed in due diligence and bought the risk blindly.

All the while Greenspan fueled the whole gang bang with ultra low interest rates. A good time was had by all until the band needed to be paid. The Great Recession.

Where in all of that mumbo jumbo is the due diligence requirement that investors should do on their own before they invest their money?

The did their due diligence using their usual source, Standard and Poor's. Who suspected them to be part of the plot.

The bottom line is that Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac guaranteed many of these loans.

 

[PMZ]

Government is in the way of the screwing? The truth is, Obama works in concert with his pals who are running a green energy money laundering operation which is plundering our national treasury.

Obama has been instrumental in taxing hard working people's earned wages living in our nation’s inner cities, and then transfer their earned wages to his pals who start up phony green energy businesses whose primary object is to get rich by plundering our national treasury?

Let us take a look at the list who have profited off working people‘s earned wages being transferred to them by Obama:


• Beacon Power Corp: Received $43 million in federal loan guaranteed in 2009 and also received $29 million in PA grants – Bankrupt in October 2011

• Ener1 (parent company of EnerDel): Received $118.5 million in federal loan guarantees — Bankrupt in January 2012 – has since exited bankruptcy

• Evergreen Solar: Received $58 million in MA loan guarantees (an undisclosed portion sourced from federal ARRA block grant) — Bankrupt in August 2011 with $485.6 million in debt

• Solyndra: Received $535 million in federal loan guarantees in 2009 and $25.1 million in CA tax credit — Bankrupt in August 2011

• SpectraWatt: Received $500,000 in federal loan guarantees in 2009 — Bankrupt in August 2011

• Babcock and Brown: Received $178 million in federal grants in December 2009 (4 months after it went bust) – Bankrupt in early 2009

• Mountain Plaza Inc.: Received $424,000 in federal grants through TN Department of Transportation in 2009 — Bankrupt in 2003 and again in June 2010

• Solar Trust of America (parent company: Solar Millennium): Received $2.1 billion loan guarantee in April 2011 – Bankrupt in April 2012
Other Subsidized Green Energy Companies in decline:

• A123: Received $300 million in federal grants and $135 million in MI grants — Declining orders and have forced multiple layoffs

• Amonix, Inc.: Received $5.9 million in federal tax credits in 2009 through ARRA — Laid off 2/3 of work force

• First Solar: Received $3 billion in federal loan guarantees — Biggest S&P loser in 2011, CEO fired

• Fisker Automotive: $529 million in federal loan guarantees — Multiple 2012 sales prediction downgrades for first car release, delivery and cash flow troubles; Assembling cars in Finland

• Johnson Controls: Received $299 million in federal grants in 2009 — Low demand caused cancellation of a new factory, operating at half capacity

• Nevada Geothermal: Received $98.5 million in federal loan guarantees in 2009 — Defaulting on long-term debt obligations, 85% drop in stock value

• Sun Power: Received $1.2 billion in federal loan guarantees — Debt exceeds assets; French oil company took over last fall

• Abound Solar: Received $400 million in federal loans in 2012 — ½ work force laid off

• BrightSource Energy: $1.6 billion federal loan approved in April 2012 – loan obtained through political connections with the administration; absent the loan, Brightsource’s solar power purchase would have fallen through.

see:Green Energy’s Bankruptcy Blackout

BTW, 80% of Obama green jobs money goes to Obama donors.
And you have the nerve to tell us Government is in the way of the screwing?

JWK

"To lay with one hand the power of the government on the property of the citizen and with the other to bestow upon favored individuals, to aid private enterprises and build up private fortunes [Obama’s Solyndra, Chevy Volt, Fisker, Exelon swindling deals] is none the less a robbery because it is done under forms of law and called taxation." ____ Savings and Loan Assc. v. Topeka,(1875).

Technology development is a risky business. Too risky for business. When all is said and done, and the pioneers have taken the risk, there will be huge winners and many losers. But the winners will repower the world. And save the world from the dregs of fossil fuels.

Business doesn't invest in technology that consumers don't want. That kind is definitely "too risky." Private business developed the airplane, the automobile, the light bulb, telephone, television, radio, transistor, integrated circuit, cell phone, flat screens and countless other innovations, so the idea that technological innovation is "too risky for business" is obvious horseshit put out by goosestepping Obama fluffers.

Green energy is clearly a boondoggle. It's a technology consumers don't want. That's why these "investments" always go down in flames. It's definitely "too risky."

"Green energy is clearly a boondoggle."

Yeah, let's wait until fossil fuels are all gone then figure out alternatives in the cold and dark.

 

[bripat9643]

Technology development is a risky business. Too risky for business. When all is said and done, and the pioneers have taken the risk, there will be huge winners and many losers. But the winners will repower the world. And save the world from the dregs of fossil fuels.

Business doesn't invest in technology that consumers don't want. That kind is definitely "too risky." Private business developed the airplane, the automobile, the light bulb, telephone, television, radio, transistor, integrated circuit, cell phone, flat screens and countless other innovations, so the idea that technological innovation is "too risky for business" is obvious horseshit put out by goosestepping Obama fluffers.

Green energy is clearly a boondoggle. It's a technology consumers don't want. That's why these "investments" always go down in flames. It's definitely "too risky."

"Green energy is clearly a boondoggle."

Yeah, let's wait until fossil fuels are all gone then figure out alternatives in the cold and dark.

Wind and solar are never going to be adequate substitutes for coal and oil. That's the bottom line. When we absolutely have to go to a substitute, it will be nuclear. Shortly thereafter it will be fusion.

 

[itfitzme]

Yet not in this case and many others. Even the government is good at screwing people as you point out in your support of unfair taxes. Companies are profit motivated for profit. Fanny and Freddy just gave them an opportunity to screw people over. This is the governments fault by root cause.

Only if you don't apply the facts.

The facts say that banks thought they'd stuck oil by signing folks up for mortgages that they couldn't afford and then immediately selling them to investors as safe investments. The investors thought that banks still believed in due diligence and bought the risk blindly.

All the while Greenspan fueled the whole gang bang with ultra low interest rates. A good time was had by all until the band needed to be paid. The Great Recession.

Where in all of that mumbo jumbo is the due diligence requirement that investors should do on their own before they invest their money?

It always amazes me how some folk espouse the wonders of ths free market, calling for liberty and freedom, then complaining bitterly when the free market fails to live up to expectation and blaming that failure on thw government.

a) Freddie Mac and Fannie Mae were private enterprise entities.
b) Freddie Mac and Fannie Mae were, like all free market enterprises, price takers and market followers
c) The recession was precipitated by 1) Flippers, housing investors, that obtained low doc/no doc loans and walked away when thei ROI failed to mee expectations and 2) the deceleration of consumer credit as a whole.
d) The effects of flippers propogated up the money supply chain as MBSs tanked and CDS came due all at once.

The entire process was a systematic free market systematic failure as reasonably appropriate market expectations based on past market performance failed to pan out. The recession was, at its core, caused by the free market failing to meet its expectiom of randomness.

 

[bripat9643]

Only if you don't apply the facts.

The facts say that banks thought they'd stuck oil by signing folks up for mortgages that they couldn't afford and then immediately selling them to investors as safe investments. The investors thought that banks still believed in due diligence and bought the risk blindly.

All the while Greenspan fueled the whole gang bang with ultra low interest rates. A good time was had by all until the band needed to be paid. The Great Recession.

Where in all of that mumbo jumbo is the due diligence requirement that investors should do on their own before they invest their money?

It always amazes me how some folk espouse the wonders of ths free market, calling for liberty and freedom, then complaining bitterly when the free market fails to live up to expectation and blaming that failure on thw government.

a) Freddie Mac and Fannie Mae were private enterprise entities.

ROFL! Really? Who selected the CEO of Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac?

b) Freddie Mac and Fannie Mae were, like all free market enterprises, price takers and market followers

Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac are arms of the government and were used to implement a government policy of making loans available to unqualified borrowers.

c) The recession was precipitated by 1) Flippers, housing investors, that obtained low doc/no doc loans and walked away when thei ROI failed to mee expectations and 2) the deceleration of consumer credit as a whole.

The recession was precipitated by unqualified borrowers failing to make their payments on their mortgages. The flippers were nothing more than symptom of a problem created by bad government policy.

d) The effects of flippers propogated up the money supply chain as MBSs tanked and CDS came due all at once.

A government policy of forcing banks to grant mortgages to unqualified borrowers is what precipitated the problem. The flippers simply cashed in on a bad government policy. The flippers were a symptom, not a cause.

The entire process was a systematic free market systematic failure as reasonably appropriate market expectations based on past market performance failed to pan out. The recession was, at its core, caused by the free market failing to meet its expectiom of randomness.

There is no free market in mortgages, so that claim is obviously false. Government set the terms on mortgages by fiat. banks simply complied with those regulations. Then the Obama fluffers blame the banks for doing what they were told to do.

 

[itfitzme]

Where in all of that mumbo jumbo is the due diligence requirement that investors should do on their own before they invest their money?

It always amazes me how some folk espouse the wonders of ths free market, calling for liberty and freedom, then complaining bitterly when the free market fails to live up to expectation and blaming that failure on thw government.

a) Freddie Mac and Fannie Mae were private enterprise entities.

ROFL! Really? Who selected the CEO of Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac?



Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac are arms of the government and were used to implement a government policy of making loans available to unqualified borrowers.



The recession was precipitated by unqualified borrowers failing to make their payments on their mortgages. The flippers were nothing more than symptom of a problem created by bad government policy.

d) The effects of flippers propogated up the money supply chain as MBSs tanked and CDS came due all at once.

A government policy of forcing banks to grant mortgages to unqualified borrowers is what precipitated the problem. The flippers simply cashed in on a bad government policy. The flippers were a symptom, not a cause.

The entire process was a systematic free market systematic failure as reasonably appropriate market expectations based on past market performance failed to pan out. The recession was, at its core, caused by the free market failing to meet its expectiom of randomness.

There is no free market in mortgages, so that claim is obviously false. Government set the terms on mortgages by fiat. banks simply complied with those regulations. Then the Obama fluffers blame the banks for doing what they were told to do.

Real Estate Investors, the Leverage Cycle, and the Housing Market Crisis - Federal Reserve Bank of New York

The depth and breadth of your misperceptions of economics will require a lifetime to address. The single largest issue is the unstated assumptions amd paranoid delusions that drive your fantacies.

 

[Indeependent]

Bullshit. There's no evidence such a thing ever occurred.



Yeah, that happened after they started enforcing the CRA. If banks didn't give out a certain number of loans to blacks, qualified or not, the bank were denied permission to expand.

Why would a bank give a loan to an unqualified borrower unless it was forced?

That's what happens when left-wing scumbags start using government's regulatory powers for social engineering.

Ever hear of Fees and Commissions?
I worked on Wall Street for 16 years and all I ever heard from MBAs was, "By the time the sh!t hits the fan, I'll be gone.".
GW, by 2006, knew the economy was NOT recovering from the DOT COM bust so his administration ignored any and all warnings of bad loans and shady investments.
Please provide a list of CEOs who, during the GW years, were approving loans left and right, who were prosecuted; heck...investigated.

Your ideology is blinding you to what actually occurred.

Bull shit. You must have had your head up your ass on the Street.
Bush went to Congress how many times stating that Fannie and Freddie needed to be restructured? The dot com bust had little to no effect on the home building that drove the economy for decades. Dot com stocks were not involved in the financial meltdown from bad loans that were over appraised with little to no oversight on borrowing. "If they breathe fund them" was the cry from mortgage brokers signing them up and AAA ratings on the bundled mortgages for investors.

First sign that I've won the debate...you falling back on an ad hominem.

Notice you claim nothing of actual Wall Street experience?
All you have is Rush Limbaugh.

And, BTW, Limbaugh was gushing about how much of a genius GW was in doing nothing BECAUSE the Sub-Prime Mortgages amounted to less than 3% of all outstanding Mortgage dollars.

But of course, according to irrational ideologues (are there any other kind?), that measly <3% caused a Global Crash.

 

[Indeependent]

Only if you don't apply the facts.

The facts say that banks thought they'd stuck oil by signing folks up for mortgages that they couldn't afford and then immediately selling them to investors as safe investments. The investors thought that banks still believed in due diligence and bought the risk blindly.

All the while Greenspan fueled the whole gang bang with ultra low interest rates. A good time was had by all until the band needed to be paid. The Great Recession.

Where in all of that mumbo jumbo is the due diligence requirement that investors should do on their own before they invest their money?

It always amazes me how some folk espouse the wonders of ths free market, calling for liberty and freedom, then complaining bitterly when the free market fails to live up to expectation and blaming that failure on thw government.

a) Freddie Mac and Fannie Mae were private enterprise entities.
b) Freddie Mac and Fannie Mae were, like all free market enterprises, price takers and market followers
c) The recession was precipitated by 1) Flippers, housing investors, that obtained low doc/no doc loans and walked away when thei ROI failed to mee expectations and 2) the deceleration of consumer credit as a whole.
d) The effects of flippers propogated up the money supply chain as MBSs tanked and CDS came due all at once.

The entire process was a systematic free market systematic failure as reasonably appropriate market expectations based on past market performance failed to pan out. The recession was, at its core, caused by the free market failing to meet its expectiom of randomness.

You and PMZ have GOT to learn never to let FACTS get in the way of ideology.

 

[RKMBrown]

It always amazes me how some folk espouse the wonders of ths free market, calling for liberty and freedom, then complaining bitterly when the free market fails to live up to expectation and blaming that failure on thw government.

a) Freddie Mac and Fannie Mae were private enterprise entities.

ROFL! Really? Who selected the CEO of Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac?



Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac are arms of the government and were used to implement a government policy of making loans available to unqualified borrowers.



The recession was precipitated by unqualified borrowers failing to make their payments on their mortgages. The flippers were nothing more than symptom of a problem created by bad government policy.



A government policy of forcing banks to grant mortgages to unqualified borrowers is what precipitated the problem. The flippers simply cashed in on a bad government policy. The flippers were a symptom, not a cause.

The entire process was a systematic free market systematic failure as reasonably appropriate market expectations based on past market performance failed to pan out. The recession was, at its core, caused by the free market failing to meet its expectiom of randomness.

There is no free market in mortgages, so that claim is obviously false. Government set the terms on mortgages by fiat. banks simply complied with those regulations. Then the Obama fluffers blame the banks for doing what they were told to do.

Real Estate Investors, the Leverage Cycle, and the Housing Market Crisis - Federal Reserve Bank of New York

The depth and breadth of your misperceptions of economics will require a lifetime to address. The single largest issue is the unstated assumptions amd paranoid delusions that drive your fantacies.

What does that have to do with your blatant lies? You were FOS when you stated "Freddie Mac and Fannie Mae were private enterprise entities." Admit it, and move on. They were GSEs nimrod, not private enterprise entities.

 

[itfitzme]

Where in all of that mumbo jumbo is the due diligence requirement that investors should do on their own before they invest their money?

It always amazes me how some folk espouse the wonders of ths free market, calling for liberty and freedom, then complaining bitterly when the free market fails to live up to expectation and blaming that failure on thw government.

a) Freddie Mac and Fannie Mae were private enterprise entities.
b) Freddie Mac and Fannie Mae were, like all free market enterprises, price takers and market followers
c) The recession was precipitated by 1) Flippers, housing investors, that obtained low doc/no doc loans and walked away when thei ROI failed to mee expectations and 2) the deceleration of consumer credit as a whole.
d) The effects of flippers propogated up the money supply chain as MBSs tanked and CDS came due all at once.

The entire process was a systematic free market systematic failure as reasonably appropriate market expectations based on past market performance failed to pan out. The recession was, at its core, caused by the free market failing to meet its expectiom of randomness.

You and PMZ have GOT to learn never to let FACTS get in the way of ideology.

I have no ideology. All I have are data and facts. Clearly you don't know the difference.

This is data and facts;

http://www.newyorkfed.org/research/staff_reports/sr514.html

 

[RKMBrown]

Ever hear of Fees and Commissions?
I worked on Wall Street for 16 years and all I ever heard from MBAs was, "By the time the sh!t hits the fan, I'll be gone.".
GW, by 2006, knew the economy was NOT recovering from the DOT COM bust so his administration ignored any and all warnings of bad loans and shady investments.
Please provide a list of CEOs who, during the GW years, were approving loans left and right, who were prosecuted; heck...investigated.

Your ideology is blinding you to what actually occurred.

Bull shit. You must have had your head up your ass on the Street.
Bush went to Congress how many times stating that Fannie and Freddie needed to be restructured? The dot com bust had little to no effect on the home building that drove the economy for decades. Dot com stocks were not involved in the financial meltdown from bad loans that were over appraised with little to no oversight on borrowing. "If they breathe fund them" was the cry from mortgage brokers signing them up and AAA ratings on the bundled mortgages for investors.

First sign that I've won the debate...you falling back on an ad hominem.

Notice you claim nothing of actual Wall Street experience?
All you have is Rush Limbaugh.

And, BTW, Limbaugh was gushing about how much of a genius GW was in doing nothing BECAUSE the Sub-Prime Mortgages amounted to less than 3% of all outstanding Mortgage dollars.

But of course, according to irrational ideologues (are there any other kind?), that measly <3% caused a Global Crash.

What crash? All I saw was a market correction and a shit load of bailout money being handed out. You call that a crash?

 

[bripat9643]

It always amazes me how some folk espouse the wonders of ths free market, calling for liberty and freedom, then complaining bitterly when the free market fails to live up to expectation and blaming that failure on thw government.

a) Freddie Mac and Fannie Mae were private enterprise entities.

ROFL! Really? Who selected the CEO of Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac?



Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac are arms of the government and were used to implement a government policy of making loans available to unqualified borrowers.



The recession was precipitated by unqualified borrowers failing to make their payments on their mortgages. The flippers were nothing more than symptom of a problem created by bad government policy.



A government policy of forcing banks to grant mortgages to unqualified borrowers is what precipitated the problem. The flippers simply cashed in on a bad government policy. The flippers were a symptom, not a cause.

The entire process was a systematic free market systematic failure as reasonably appropriate market expectations based on past market performance failed to pan out. The recession was, at its core, caused by the free market failing to meet its expectiom of randomness.

There is no free market in mortgages, so that claim is obviously false. Government set the terms on mortgages by fiat. banks simply complied with those regulations. Then the Obama fluffers blame the banks for doing what they were told to do.

Real Estate Investors, the Leverage Cycle, and the Housing Market Crisis - Federal Reserve Bank of New York

The depth and breadth of your misperceptions of economics will require a lifetime to address. The single largest issue is the unstated assumptions amd paranoid delusions that drive your fantacies.

So we are supposed to believe some report by one of the institutions that caused the problem in the first place?

You might have some credibility of you ever took your lips off of Obama's dick.

 

[bripat9643]

It always amazes me how some folk espouse the wonders of ths free market, calling for liberty and freedom, then complaining bitterly when the free market fails to live up to expectation and blaming that failure on thw government.

a) Freddie Mac and Fannie Mae were private enterprise entities.
b) Freddie Mac and Fannie Mae were, like all free market enterprises, price takers and market followers
c) The recession was precipitated by 1) Flippers, housing investors, that obtained low doc/no doc loans and walked away when thei ROI failed to mee expectations and 2) the deceleration of consumer credit as a whole.
d) The effects of flippers propogated up the money supply chain as MBSs tanked and CDS came due all at once.

The entire process was a systematic free market systematic failure as reasonably appropriate market expectations based on past market performance failed to pan out. The recession was, at its core, caused by the free market failing to meet its expectiom of randomness.

You and PMZ have GOT to learn never to let FACTS get in the way of ideology.

I have no ideology. All I have are data and facts. Clearly you don't know the difference.

This is data and facts;

Real Estate Investors, the Leverage Cycle, and the Housing Market Crisis - Federal Reserve Bank of New York

You have government propaganda. The government never blames itself.

The claim that you don't have an ideology is too precious for words. True, it isn't rational or coherent, but it's still the ideology that says government can do no wrong - the market is always to blame.