Poll: Majority of Israelis Oppose Concessions

[Sweet_Caroline]

I would be willing to answer if I had an answer to give you. I have told you a few times my views. The fact that I am not telling you what you want to hear is a shame, because it shows you are trying to make me say what you want to hear. There is no Jewish culture, for the fourth time. There are different levels of observance, and one Jew may not be of the same culture as another. Obviously this comes as a complete surprise to you, but as they say, you learn something new every day.

i noticed your signature line invoking the jewish virtual library...

jewish culture - Google Search

"There is no Jewish culture, for the fourth time."

you may have to go there a fifth time ...i think jewish people have their own culture. traditions, way of life, foods, songs, places of worship,-- it's a culture. whether hasidic, orthodox.....or NEITHER -- you're all in that culture-circle. ,

Ok, I don't like chopped liver, I am low maintenance, I don't go to piano recitals, I am not a Jewish Princess, I haven't gone to college, I love my kids, I love my country, I shun designer labels, Israel is great but I wouldn't want to live there, I hate cooking, I have muslims as friends, I don't drive a flash car, I don't spend time at the gym, etc. Does every other Jew have a "culture" apart from me? Am I missing out on being part of this "culture" you are talking about?

 

[patrickcaturday]

i noticed your signature line invoking the jewish virtual library...

jewish culture - Google Search

"There is no Jewish culture, for the fourth time."

you may have to go there a fifth time ...i think jewish people have their own culture. traditions, way of life, foods, songs, places of worship,-- it's a culture. whether hasidic, orthodox.....or NEITHER -- you're all in that culture-circle. ,

Ok, I don't like chopped liver, I am low maintenance, I don't go to piano recitals, I am not a Jewish Princess, I haven't gone to college, I love my kids, I love my country, I shun designer labels, Israel is great but I wouldn't want to live there, I hate cooking, I have muslims as friends, I don't drive a flash car, I don't spend time at the gym, etc. Does every other Jew have a "culture" apart from me? Am I missing out on being part of this "culture" you are talking about?

I am afraid that at this point in time I not only am at a loss for words but also for ideas. If there is no Jewish Culture then I am forced to conclusions that will probably get me called either anti-Semetic or a Nazi, oh well in for a penny in for a pound. If there is no culture then the cultural mantra that has sustained the Jews as a people for the last 2000 years " next year in Jerusalem " is a lie and whatever meaning it had is lost even though in my opinion that meaning was not very good in the first place, and all it becomes is a mercenary cry about the greed of the Jewish people for land that is not theirs.

 

[Roudy]

Funny part is he posts an utterly bigoted statement like this, and then he SQUEALS about "Jewish racism". I guess he learned the Nazi art of turnspeak real well, accusing others of what you yourself are most guilty of.

Goebbels would have been proud of Squeal. His statement about Jews looked like it came out of 1930's Nazi Germany.

There are many typical of him on forums though. You know the type - some of my best friends are Jewish, I've been to Jewish diners, I had a Jewish best friend in school, I have nothing against Jews, blah blah blah. You can spot them a mile off. They cover their antisemitism very carefully but it soon surfaces.

i gave my analysis of your culture and did not extol any individuals. i said, as a culture, i don't like your people, based upon my interactions with many jewish people.

apparently, i have a lot of ccompany, seeing as how you are disliked everywhere you go, or so you allege, and by peoples who accept all cultures.

i am not particularly "sqealing" about jewish raccism particularly. i believe it is your poll that does that. i neither like people because they are jewish nor dislike them because they are jewish, but as a culture, you are...well, you have been kicked out o everywhere you go and have whined about every place has abused you when you really are nothing more really than your average white people.

something else, too, roudy and caroline...i rarely actually indulge in personal attacks but you two very frequently do without addressing any issue. people who do that usually do so when confronted with truths, hard truths.

it is your poll who depicts you as racists and bigots. you posted it.

What issue do you want us to address, our bigotry, or your justifications for being an anti Semite? Surely your long post about how you hate Jews and Jewish culture isn't the only reason you frequent this board 24 / 7. Just whom do you think think you're fooling with this charade? LOL

 

[Sweet_Caroline]

Ok, I don't like chopped liver, I am low maintenance, I don't go to piano recitals, I am not a Jewish Princess, I haven't gone to college, I love my kids, I love my country, I shun designer labels, Israel is great but I wouldn't want to live there, I hate cooking, I have muslims as friends, I don't drive a flash car, I don't spend time at the gym, etc. Does every other Jew have a "culture" apart from me? Am I missing out on being part of this "culture" you are talking about?

I am afraid that at this point in time I not only am at a loss for words but also for ideas. If there is no Jewish Culture then I am forced to conclusions that will probably get me called either anti-Semetic or a Nazi, oh well in for a penny in for a pound. If there is no culture then the cultural mantra that has sustained the Jews as a people for the last 2000 years " next year in Jerusalem " is a lie and whatever meaning it had is lost even though in my opinion that meaning was not very good in the first place, and all it becomes is a mercenary cry about the greed of the Jewish people for land that is not theirs.

You believe the prayer the Jews say when they pray "Next Year in Jerusalem" is a culture? No wonder you are lost for words. It is a prayer, not a culture.

 

[MJB12741]

Excellent post. Israel sure did reply to all these Palestinian pre conditions for peace talks. Hopefully someday they will understand that there will be no right of return for Palestinians driven out by the Arab countries until they annihilate Israel. And there will be no more land concessions after the thank you Israel reeceived for granting the Paletinians their Jew free Gaza.

Poll: Majority of Israelis Oppose Concessions
Survey by Israel Democracy Institute reveals wide public support for referendum on any peace deal, opposition to more Israeli concessions.

By Ari Soffer
First Publish: 8/6/2013, 12:32 PM
​

A poll released by the Israel Democracy Institute (IDI) has shed significant light on attitudes among Israeli Jews and Arabs regarding peace talks with the Palestinian Authority, among other issues.

The survey, which was conducted between 28th - 30th July 2013, includes 602 respondents constituting a representative sample of the adult population of Israel, according to IDI.

It reveals - perhaps unsurprisingly - significant differences of opinion between Jewish and Arab Israelis over the prospect of Israeli concessions to the Palestinian Authority (PA).

Below are some of the key findings (with a 4.5% margin of error):

"Right of return"

Among Jewish Israelis, 77% oppose even a recognition in principle by Israel of the so-called "right of return" for the descendants of Arabs who fled during the Israeli War of Independence. Under such a limited recognition, put forward in past negotiations, a small number of the descendants of Arab refugees would be allowed to settle in Israel, with the government providing compensation for the remainder.

In contrast, 82% of Israeli Arabs supported such a move.

Approximately 700,000 Arabs fled fighting during the 1948 War of Independence, many of them encouraged by Arab leaders who urged them to leave their homes temporarily to enable invading Arab armies to "cleanse" the land of Jews, after which they would be able to return. Today, unlike any other refugees, "Palestinian refugee status" includes all descendants of those who fled, which means that nearly 5 million Arabs - most of whom were born outside of Israel - would qualify for compensation.

No mention was made in the poll of the roughly one million Jews from Arab countries who were forced from their homes - both during the same period and in the years that followed - in a concerted act of ethnic-cleansing by Arab governments.

Territorial concessions

The poll also showed that a significant majority of Jewish Israelis are opposed to further territorial concessions. 62.5% opposed a comprehensive withdrawal from Judea, Samaria and much of Jerusalem with land swaps, while 58% opposed evacuating all Jewish communities in Judea and Samaria apart from Maaleh Adumim and the city of Ariel, as well as large "settlement blocs." 50% oppose transferring control over Arab neighbourhoods of Jerusalem to the Palestinian Authority, with a special arrangement for holy places.

Interestingly, while Israeli Arabs largely supported Israeli concessions in this area, only a slim majority (55%) wanted to see Arab neighbourhood in Jerusalem transferred to the Palestinian Authority. This may reflect previous findings which indicated that most Arab Jerusalemites prefer to live under Israeli sovereignty rather than under PA control.

Israel has previously made territorial concessions to the PA, including control over large areas of Judea and Samaria, and a full withdrawal from Gaza - along with the expulsion of around 9,000 Jewish residents. Far from achieving peace, however, the regions from which Israel withdrew were used by Arab terrorist groups to launch further attacks on the Jewish State, leading many Israelis to harden their stance against further concessions.

Referendum

As in previous surveys, a clear majority of Jewish Israelis (62%) believe that any decision to deport Jews from Judea and Samaria should be brought to a national referendum. Interestingly, an even larger majority (72%) of Israeli Arabs felt the same way.

Another question posed was whether all Israelis - Arab and Jewish alike - should be eligible to vote in such a referendum over the future of Jewish life in Judea and Samaria. Among Jewish respondents there was a fairly even split - with 49% believing that only Jews should be eligible and 46% believing that Israeli Arabs should be included. An overwhelming majority of Israeli Arabs (88%) felt that the right should be granted to all Israeli citizens.

Poll: Majority of Israelis Oppose Concessions - Inside Israel - News - Israel National News

 

[MJB12741]

Besides a right of return the Palestinians also want a Palestinian state with East Jerusalem as it's capitol & a return to the 67 borders which led the Arab countries to unite & drive out the Palestinians so they could annihilate Israel. Got news for the Palestinians & their supporters. Kiss it goodbye.

 

[Roudy]

I notice that you did not even attempt to answer Seal's question. I wonder why that is ???

Yet again I state there is no Jewish culture. Judaism is a religion. Jews are different, as I said above, from semi-observant, to observant to non-observant. How much more plain-speaking can I get.

I think that you need to understand what culture means , there are definad definitions in the academic world that define the study of that discipline. It can be historical, anthropolgical, political, or other. All peoples have certain commonalities that establish there uniquness among other peoples wheather it be in art, music or food. Taking this into consideration maybe you would like to take another swing at the question.

I don't think YOU understand what culture means, dipstick. Jewish Americans have a different culture that Israeli Jews, than Ashkenazi European Jews, than Sephardi Middle Eastern Jews, than Jews from India. And within each subset, again the culture is different, for example North Eastern Jews are different than Southern Jews, than Californians. Jews from Iran would be different than Jews from Iraq, than Moroccan Jews.

What you and that other BIGOT BOY Squeal are proposing is, just by BEING JEWISH you have certain behavioral attributes like being greedy or backstabbing or evil etc. (according to Nazi bigot Squeals assessment just being a jewish means you automatically have these negative qualities, is that CULTURE, or BIGOTRY). Now let me see where did we hear that kind of talk before...oh that's right, Nazi Germany in the 1950's, and today's Islamists.

You're dismissed.

 

[Coyote]

I think saying there is a "Jewish culture" is like saying there is a "Christian culture" or "Islamic culture" - there are values in common, and a religion in common - but the culture is largely that of the country they reside in.

 

[sealadaigh]

i noticed your signature line invoking the jewish virtual library...

jewish culture - Google Search

"There is no Jewish culture, for the fourth time."

you may have to go there a fifth time ...i think jewish people have their own culture. traditions, way of life, foods, songs, places of worship,-- it's a culture. whether hasidic, orthodox.....or NEITHER -- you're all in that culture-circle. ,

Ok, I don't like chopped liver, I am low maintenance, I don't go to piano recitals, I am not a Jewish Princess, I haven't gone to college, I love my kids, I love my country, I shun designer labels, Israel is great but I wouldn't want to live there, I hate cooking, I have muslims as friends, I don't drive a flash car, I don't spend time at the gym, etc. Does every other Jew have a "culture" apart from me? Am I missing out on being part of this "culture" you are talking about?

i'm irish.

i don't drink. i don't bet on horse races. u don't get in fights at the drop of a hat. i do not have a quick temper. i don't do a lot of things but...

there is an irush culture.

but that's ok. jews don't have a culture, i guess, if it makes you happy. there is no jewish culture. there is no jewish people.

just don't tell it to these guys...

Foundation for Jewish Culture | Supporting Artists and Scholars Exploring the Jewish Experience

Jewish Heritage - European Association for the Preservation and Promotion of Jewish Culture and Heritage (AEPJ)

| Congress for Jewish Culture

but i'm good, really, with there is no "jewish people" or jewish culture.

you may not be aware of this, but roman catholics frequently recognise other roman catholics by their attitudes and mannerisms and other subtle clues. non cathilics too can sometimes pick up on the subtle hints. the reason why is because we have a common catholic culture, depite our diversity. sometimes religion molds cultures.

but if you don't want to have a culture or insist there is no jewish culture, i will take your word for it as a spokesperson for the jewish...well...nothing but a religion, i suppose, lol...which you don't practise so i guess your not jewish.

 

[Roudy]

Yes, the Jews have been kicked out of countries, the latest being the Jordanians kicking them out of the West bank in 1948, but of course other countries do not make the Jews lives that tolerable even nowadays.

Now that the Jews have their own country again and have come back home as it were, there is a place for those who are "whining" as you put it to go to to settle in peace. No need to whine, as seal puts it, any longer. There is a home for the Jews in Israel.

I notice that you did not even attempt to answer Seal's question. I wonder why that is ???

Why what is idiot? Jews are an ancient people, they lived in many empires and countries throughout history. As these empires collapsed or got invaded, they had to leave to go and start fresh elsewhere or got persecuted and killed by new structure in power.

Jews however were not the direct target, for example Nazi aholes like you will say "the Jews got kicked out of Spain" but they fail to mention that the Crusaders were primarily trying to rid the European continent of Muslim invaders, and ALL other non Christians, which included the Jews. The same with 20th century Iran for example, during the Islamic revolution many Jews, Bahaais, and Christian Armenians fled. Were the Jews the direct target of the Islamic revolution? No, the Islamic revolution was about turning Iran into a strict Shariah Shiite (shit) Islamic state. That included persecuting Jews and other non Muslims, so the Jews fled.

"Why is that"? The Nazi ahole bigots will say. In an attempt to make it look like it was something the Jews did that caused them to get persecuted.

Again it's no surprise because that's what bigots are good at, making it look like their hate is justified.

 

[Roudy]

"There is no Jewish culture, for the fourth time."

you may have to go there a fifth time ...i think jewish people have their own culture. traditions, way of life, foods, songs, places of worship,-- it's a culture. whether hasidic, orthodox.....or NEITHER -- you're all in that culture-circle. ,

Ok, I don't like chopped liver, I am low maintenance, I don't go to piano recitals, I am not a Jewish Princess, I haven't gone to college, I love my kids, I love my country, I shun designer labels, Israel is great but I wouldn't want to live there, I hate cooking, I have muslims as friends, I don't drive a flash car, I don't spend time at the gym, etc. Does every other Jew have a "culture" apart from me? Am I missing out on being part of this "culture" you are talking about?

i'm irish.

i don't drink. i don't bet on horse races. u don't get in fights at the drop of a hat. i do not have a quick temper. i don't do a lot of things but...

there is an irush culture.

but that's ok. jews don't have a culture, i guess, if it makes you happy. there is no jewish culture. there is no jewish people.

just don't tell it to these guys...

Foundation for Jewish Culture | Supporting Artists and Scholars Exploring the Jewish Experience

Jewish Heritage - European Association for the Preservation and Promotion of Jewish Culture and Heritage (AEPJ)

| Congress for Jewish Culture

but i'm good, really, with there is no "jewish people" or jewish culture.

you may not be aware of this, but roman catholics frequently recognise other roman catholics by their attitudes and mannerisms and other subtle clues. non cathilics too can sometimes pick up on the subtle hints. the reason why is because we have a common catholic culture, depite our diversity. sometimes religion molds cultures.

but if you don't want to have a culture or insist there is no jewish culture, i will take your word for it as a spokesperson for the jewish...well...nothing but a religion, i suppose, lol...which you don't practise so i guess your not jewish.

Irish is a nationality, dipstick. Duh.

 

[sealadaigh]

I think saying there is a "Jewish culture" is like saying there is a "Christian culture" or "Islamic culture" - there are values in common, and a religion in common - but the culture is largely that of the country they reside in.

i think that would really depend upon how insular the as[ects of a religious culture is. but lie i said, it isn't worth it to me to argue that there is no jewish culture. jews have no common bond that defines them as a distinct people.

i think that one question went unanswered again about "general terms". i think i will call it "the waldo question" after the notorious chameleon.

 

[Roudy]

I think saying there is a "Jewish culture" is like saying there is a "Christian culture" or "Islamic culture" - there are values in common, and a religion in common - but the culture is largely that of the country they reside in.

Naiz bigots like Squeal talk from both sides of their mouth, on side they will tell you that it's in a Jewish person's BLOOD to be stingy, selfish, backstabbing etc. and somehow they are under this delusional thought that the whole world thinks of Jews as they do, and its justified.

And then on the other hand they will tell you that today's Jews are fake Jews, the real Jews are the Palestinians, which have this "Noble blood", the Jews' blood got mixed, it's not real. <Ha ha> And then of course from the third side they will tell you that the Jews and Arabs are actually the same people with the same blood. <Phew>

Important thing here is to stop trying to figure out the thought process that goes into the irrational logic of an anti Semite. They will twist and turn everything so that it fits their nice little bigoted logic.

 

[Coyote]

you may not be aware of this, but roman catholics frequently recognise other roman catholics by their attitudes and mannerisms and other subtle clues. non cathilics too can sometimes pick up on the subtle hints. the reason why is because we have a common catholic culture, depite our diversity. sometimes religion molds cultures.

I'm not sure you could call it a "culture" though - they have a religion in common, and the rituals and values of that religion. But - there are considerable differences between the Roman Catholics of Mexico and the Roman Catholics of France for example.

I think religion is a subset of culture so there is overlap - but culture, as we commonly refer to it when talking about ethnic or national groups - is the larger category.

According to Wikipedia, culture includes:

Language and dialect
Science
Technology
Cuisine
Aesthetics - art, music, literature, fashion, and architecture
Values, ideology
Social conventions, including norms, taboos, and etiquette
Gender roles
Recreational activities such as festivals and holidays
Commercial practices
Social structure
Religion

Amongst members of a broad religious grouping such as Jews (or Christians or Muslims) - you might have religion in common, possibly values and ideology but not much else. If narrow it significantly and talk about smaller more tightly defined groups such as the Amish, or the Hassidic Jews then you probably do have a common culture.

I don't think you have enough of the above in common to say that the entire religion has a common culture - that's just my take on it

 

[Coyote]

I think saying there is a "Jewish culture" is like saying there is a "Christian culture" or "Islamic culture" - there are values in common, and a religion in common - but the culture is largely that of the country they reside in.

i think that would really depend upon how insular the as[ects of a religious culture is. but lie i said, it isn't worth it to me to argue that there is no jewish culture. jews have no common bond that defines them as a distinct people.

i think that one question went unanswered again abiut "general terms". i think i will call it "the waldo question" after the notorious chameleon.

I agree - some religious groups are very insular, and you say they have a common culture but those are usually subgroups of the greater religion.

Jews have a common bond in religion - like any religion.

 

[Roudy]

I think saying there is a "Jewish culture" is like saying there is a "Christian culture" or "Islamic culture" - there are values in common, and a religion in common - but the culture is largely that of the country they reside in.

i think that would really depend upon how insular the as[ects of a religious culture is. but lie i said, it isn't worth it to me to argue that there is no jewish culture. jews have no common bond that defines them as a distinct people.

i think that one question went unanswered again abiut "general terms". i think i will call it "the waldo question" after the notorious chameleon.

What do you mean by culture bigot boy? Your idea of culture is if a person happens to be Jewish that means he / she inherits those bad personality traits? The definition of culture and specifically JEWISH CULTURE according to an anti Semite. That's all we needed. Ha ha ha.

Any more definitions and tidbits of wisdom you'd like to pass on?

 

[Coyote]

Thread is now reopened.

Please remember that IP is Zone 2. Posts that are purely personal attacks or trolling will be deleted. If it's repeated, other measures may be taken. We're serious about enforcing civil debate in IP - rebutt the arguments with your own points.

 

[Intense]

I think saying there is a "Jewish culture" is like saying there is a "Christian culture" or "Islamic culture" - there are values in common, and a religion in common - but the culture is largely that of the country they reside in.

Naiz bigots like Squeal talk from both sides of their mouth, on side they will tell you that it's in a Jewish person's BLOOD to be stingy, selfish, backstabbing etc. and somehow they are under this delusional thought that the whole world thinks of Jews as they do, and its justified.

And then on the other hand they will tell you that today's Jews are fake Jews, the real Jews are the Palestinians, which have this "Noble blood", the Jews' blood got mixed, it's not real. <Ha ha> And then of course from the third side they will tell you that the Jews and Arabs are actually the same people with the same blood. <Phew>

Important thing here is to stop trying to figure out the thought process that goes into the irrational logic of an anti Semite. They will twist and turn everything so that it fits their nice little bigoted logic.

I think it's more the some of the lower aspects of Human Nature Roudy, at war with God, at war with the Forces of Creation. Further, I don't think any of us are immune from it. If you believe in the Book, you believe that We are All related. We each are purposed and created by God. So where are our priorities? For those who have a clue, God first in All things. Are the tangents we create of more importance than our purpose for being? We each have to choose.

 

[member]

I think saying there is a "Jewish culture" is like saying there is a "Christian culture" or "Islamic culture" - there are values in common, and a religion in common - but the culture is largely that of the country they reside in.

i think that would really depend upon how insular the asPects of a religious culture is. but lie i said, it isn't worth it to me to argue that there is no jewish culture. jews have no common bond that defines them as a distinct people.

i think that one question went unanswered again abiut "general terms". i think i will call it "the waldo question" after the notorious chameleon.

Cara mia ! no culture..? how 'bout the Italian CULTURE !!!


e' una cosa bella !










ravioli, fettucini, spaghetti, cavatelli, tortoni, zabbalione, cappucino, spumone, gelato, cannoli ! mama mia, delizioso !





eh, facia bella !


Vito ! presto ...




come' sta ? ....questo ballo e' facile da imparare -- osservare, tarantella:

​

​

bella mia !​

 

[sealadaigh]

I think saying there is a "Jewish culture" is like saying there is a "Christian culture" or "Islamic culture" - there are values in common, and a religion in common - but the culture is largely that of the country they reside in.

Naiz bigots like Squeal talk from both sides of their mouth, on side they will tell you that it's in a Jewish person's BLOOD to be stingy, selfish, backstabbing etc. and somehow they are under this delusional thought that the whole world thinks of Jews as they do, and its justified.

And then on the other hand they will tell you that today's Jews are fake Jews, the real Jews are the Palestinians, which have this "Noble blood", the Jews' blood got mixed, it's not real. <Ha ha> And then of course from the third side they will tell you that the Jews and Arabs are actually the same people with the same blood. <Phew>

Important thing here is to stop trying to figure out the thought process that goes into the irrational logic of an anti Semite. They will twist and turn everything so that it fits their nice little bigoted logic.

perhaps you would provide some link to where i said anything even remotely like the above. in fact, i have said just the opposite...of almost all of the above, or have said nothing at all.

i don't think virues or vices are heritable. i do think certain values and what today may be called vices are inculcated by a culture among its members and actually do not dwell to heavily on that other than how they relate to modern society, how those cultural values fit in and enable people to adapt in modern times.

furthermore, i understand that some behavioural values were encouraged as necessary to the survival and cohesion of the group, which is evident from the many diferent forms of religious beliefs around the world...but the hell with it...go ask margaret mead or channel her spirit whatever it takes.