Poll: Solid majority (71%) of Americans support Obama’s increase of the minimum wage

[Dubya]

People like Redfish don't have a mind. They believe that business does better as the purchasing power of the workers gets smaller, because the business can pay less for labor. They don't have the sense to see that the opposite is true and businesses will do better as workers get more purchasing power, because the customers to that business are the workers from some other business.

Yes, getting more money into the hands of the people who spend every $$ they make would seem to be a no brainer. Talk about an economic stimulous. They're not going to sit on this money until a good investment opportunity comes along, and even if they blow it on pizza and beer, the pizza maker gets paid, and so does the beer store operator, plus they earned it.

Conservatives want people to take responsibility for themselves, and they don't want these same people spending "their tax dollars" on junk food and lotteries, but they don't want to pay a few pennies more for their hamburgers and french fries to see people off the public teat. It makes no sense.

I want corporations to take responsibility for their workers. If you can't pay your employees enough money to keep them off government assistance, you don't deserve to be in business. You certainly don't deserve on ongoing government wage subsidy to continue to allow you to be in business.

If Walmart cant pay it's employees a living wage, it should be allowed to fail. If that happens, thousands of stores will spring up to replace it, and they will not be dependent on government handouts to pay their corporate dividends.

You're not really what we call "economically literate" are you?

You fools don't know anything about economics. Just a simple litmus test on wages will prove the point. If wages keep getting lower in purchasing power, then at some point a business will lose enough business to go out of business. Even with it's labor cost saving it money, the other cost of doing business aren't going to decline like that and the sales to customers have to decline, as their purchasing power declines. If the consumers get more purchasing power, the businesses will profit from that.

It amazes me how stupid you right-wingers can be.

 

[Samson]

Yes, getting more money into the hands of the people who spend every $$ they make would seem to be a no brainer. Talk about an economic stimulous. They're not going to sit on this money until a good investment opportunity comes along, and even if they blow it on pizza and beer, the pizza maker gets paid, and so does the beer store operator, plus they earned it.

Conservatives want people to take responsibility for themselves, and they don't want these same people spending "their tax dollars" on junk food and lotteries, but they don't want to pay a few pennies more for their hamburgers and french fries to see people off the public teat. It makes no sense.

I want corporations to take responsibility for their workers. If you can't pay your employees enough money to keep them off government assistance, you don't deserve to be in business. You certainly don't deserve on ongoing government wage subsidy to continue to allow you to be in business.

If Walmart cant pay it's employees a living wage, it should be allowed to fail. If that happens, thousands of stores will spring up to replace it, and they will not be dependent on government handouts to pay their corporate dividends.

You're not really what we call "economically literate" are you?

If wages keep getting lower in purchasing power, then at some point a business will lose enough business to go out of business. ....

It amazes me how stupid you right-wingers can be.

 

[The Rabbi]

Yes, getting more money into the hands of the people who spend every $$ they make would seem to be a no brainer. Talk about an economic stimulous. They're not going to sit on this money until a good investment opportunity comes along, and even if they blow it on pizza and beer, the pizza maker gets paid, and so does the beer store operator, plus they earned it.

Conservatives want people to take responsibility for themselves, and they don't want these same people spending "their tax dollars" on junk food and lotteries, but they don't want to pay a few pennies more for their hamburgers and french fries to see people off the public teat. It makes no sense.

I want corporations to take responsibility for their workers. If you can't pay your employees enough money to keep them off government assistance, you don't deserve to be in business. You certainly don't deserve on ongoing government wage subsidy to continue to allow you to be in business.

If Walmart cant pay it's employees a living wage, it should be allowed to fail. If that happens, thousands of stores will spring up to replace it, and they will not be dependent on government handouts to pay their corporate dividends.

You're not really what we call "economically literate" are you?

You fools don't know anything about economics. Just a simple litmus test on wages will prove the point. If wages keep getting lower in purchasing power, then at some point a business will lose enough business to go out of business. Even with it's labor cost saving it money, the other cost of doing business aren't going to decline like that and the sales to customers have to decline, as their purchasing power declines. If the consumers get more purchasing power, the businesses will profit from that.

It amazes me how stupid you right-wingers can be.

You've never run a business, have you? Or anything more than your mouth, to be honest. Right?

 

[Dubya]

You're not really what we call "economically literate" are you?

You fools don't know anything about economics. Just a simple litmus test on wages will prove the point. If wages keep getting lower in purchasing power, then at some point a business will lose enough business to go out of business. Even with it's labor cost saving it money, the other cost of doing business aren't going to decline like that and the sales to customers have to decline, as their purchasing power declines. If the consumers get more purchasing power, the businesses will profit from that.

It amazes me how stupid you right-wingers can be.

You've never run a business, have you? Or anything more than your mouth, to be honest. Right?

Wrong again, so answer the question! What will happen to businesses as the consumer continues to lose purchasing power? Will the business survive on those little bit of savings because it can pay less for it's labor? What happens to a business where the owner is the labor? How is he saving by paying himself less?

 

[hunarcy]

You fools don't know anything about economics. Just a simple litmus test on wages will prove the point. If wages keep getting lower in purchasing power, then at some point a business will lose enough business to go out of business. Even with it's labor cost saving it money, the other cost of doing business aren't going to decline like that and the sales to customers have to decline, as their purchasing power declines. If the consumers get more purchasing power, the businesses will profit from that.

It amazes me how stupid you right-wingers can be.

You've never run a business, have you? Or anything more than your mouth, to be honest. Right?

Wrong again, so answer the question! What will happen to businesses as the consumer continues to lose purchasing power? Will the business survive on those little bit of savings because it can pay less for it's labor? What happens to a business where the owner is the labor? How is he saving by paying himself less?

Well, of course, the past 4 years are the answer to that. The minimum wage was raised, employment suffered, sales slumped, housing collapsed and we have stumbled through until we've reached this point.

 

[Dragonlady]

Well, of course, the past 4 years are the answer to that. The minimum wage was raised, employment suffered, sales slumped, housing collapsed and we have stumbled through until we've reached this point.

It wasn't raising the minimum wage that caused unemployment for the middle class you idiot. It was the complete collapse of the US economy after 30 years of free market reforms.

Free market reforms introduced by successive presidents since Reagan have supressed wages in the US and increased unemployment to the point that there are no jobs to move up to. An entire generation is stuck in low paying entry level jobs as manufacturing has moved offshore.

Wages in every low income sector have stagnated due to loss of manufacturing in the US. There are lots of possibilities to replace these jobs, but corporations are not investing in plant or machinery in the US, and until they do, unemployment will remain high and wages will remain low, and people will have no money to spend on consumer products to boost sales.

It's good economics to increase wages at the lowest end of the spectrum.

 

[The Rabbi]

You fools don't know anything about economics. Just a simple litmus test on wages will prove the point. If wages keep getting lower in purchasing power, then at some point a business will lose enough business to go out of business. Even with it's labor cost saving it money, the other cost of doing business aren't going to decline like that and the sales to customers have to decline, as their purchasing power declines. If the consumers get more purchasing power, the businesses will profit from that.

It amazes me how stupid you right-wingers can be.

You've never run a business, have you? Or anything more than your mouth, to be honest. Right?

Wrong again, so answer the question! What will happen to businesses as the consumer continues to lose purchasing power? Will the business survive on those little bit of savings because it can pay less for it's labor? What happens to a business where the owner is the labor? How is he saving by paying himself less?

The business will cut costs to survive. This really isn't very difficult for anyone with a remote grasp of economics. Which you clearly lack.
Again, you've never run anything other than your mouth. That much is obvious.

 

[The Rabbi]

Well, of course, the past 4 years are the answer to that. The minimum wage was raised, employment suffered, sales slumped, housing collapsed and we have stumbled through until we've reached this point.

It wasn't raising the minimum wage that caused unemployment for the middle class you idiot. It was the complete collapse of the US economy after 30 years of free market reforms.

Free market reforms introduced by successive presidents since Reagan have supressed wages in the US and increased unemployment to the point that there are no jobs to move up to. An entire generation is stuck in low paying entry level jobs as manufacturing has moved offshore.

Wages in every low income sector have stagnated due to loss of manufacturing in the US. There are lots of possibilities to replace these jobs, but corporations are not investing in plant or machinery in the US, and until they do, unemployment will remain high and wages will remain low, and people will have no money to spend on consumer products to boost sales.

It's good economics to increase wages at the lowest end of the spectrum.

Please list free market reforms since Reagan.
Hint: there aren't any.

 

[eflatminor]

Free market reforms introduced by successive presidents since Reagan have supressed wages in the US and increased unemployment to the point that there are no jobs to move up to.

Link? Logic? Reason?

...corporations are not investing in plant or machinery in the US

Any chance that's because of the laws you support? Overly burdensome regulations, healthcare requirements, the highest corporate tax rate in the world, and yes, minimum wage laws?

Naw, couldn't be!

It's good economics to increase wages at the lowest end of the spectrum.

Sure, if you want to:

• Send more jobs overseas;
• See more domestic jobs replaced with technology; and
• Ensure our inexperienced, elderly, and most vulnerable citizens have NO opportunity to work and therefore must get on the dole, then yes, it's good economics...

 

[Dubya]

You've never run a business, have you? Or anything more than your mouth, to be honest. Right?

Wrong again, so answer the question! What will happen to businesses as the consumer continues to lose purchasing power? Will the business survive on those little bit of savings because it can pay less for it's labor? What happens to a business where the owner is the labor? How is he saving by paying himself less?

The business will cut costs to survive. This really isn't very difficult for anyone with a remote grasp of economics. Which you clearly lack.
Again, you've never run anything other than your mouth. That much is obvious.

You lack the sense to understand business and economics.

How many times does it have to be explained to a fool that the business needs every one of those employees to survive? Businesses don't hire people and pay them hourly wages just to have them around. The employee is the means of making money for that business.

Everyone making minimum wage or below minimum wage is not working at a McDonald's. You've been given examples of these same businesses working in countries with higher minimum wages and health care benefits. In 2006, only 2.2% of workers making hourly rates were minimum wage or below workers and only 59.7% of the workforce were paid hourly rates. Now, think back to 2006 and that number includes all those waitresses, bartenders, fast food people and people doing jobs like operating cash registers for businesses. Is there any job there that isn't needed by the business or our society to function the way we want to function? Can a restaurant function without a dishwasher?

I can see how increasing the minimum wage can cause teenage unemployment, because the jobs are more attractive to adults, who businesses would rather hire, but the idea that a business is able to cut costs by firing essential workers is stupid. The workforce for a business is already managed to only have the workers it needs. A manager isn't going to waste half of minimum wage hiring someone they don't need. A manager is already going to have the operating costs for the business cut, whether it's good times or bad.

I've also pointed out repeatedly the fate of businesses as workers lose their purchasing power and wages are too low. It's just common sense that eventually a business will lose so much business by reduced consumer spending that it will go out of business. The business that will be more profitable in the future will have more sales because the consumers are buying more of it's product and that only happens when wages are increased. When consumers have less purchasing power they will spend their money on the necessities and avoid a business selling fast food, bars with higher prices for booze or restaurants. They'll go to the store and buy hamburger instead of steak, they'll find a way to cut their living costs and businesses will see less sales volume. When times are really rough, you'll see more people giving up on paying for their cars or homes. They'll find some way to live at cheaper costs. That's the reality of having wages too low or wages lost during economic downturns.

Table #10: Tables 1 - 10; Characteristics of Minimum Wage Workers: 2012

 

[eflatminor]

How many times does it have to be explained to a fool that the business needs every one of those employees to survive?

Not if it's more cost effective to replace that minimum wage employee with technology.
Not if it's more cost effective to outsource those jobs to countries without a minimum wage.

 

[Dubya]

How many times does it have to be explained to a fool that the business needs every one of those employees to survive?

Not if it's more cost effective to replace that minimum wage employee with technology.
Not if it's more cost effective to outsource those jobs to countries without a minimum wage.

I don't see technology replacing someone running a cash register for small business and it's already replaced what labor it can replace.

Has it replaced workers making a higher minimum wage?

 

[eflatminor]

How many times does it have to be explained to a fool that the business needs every one of those employees to survive?

Not if it's more cost effective to replace that minimum wage employee with technology.
Not if it's more cost effective to outsource those jobs to countries without a minimum wage.

I don't see technology replacing someone running a cash register for small business and it's already replaced what labor it can replace.

Has it replaced workers making a higher minimum wage?

You've never heard of self check out?

What you "don't see" is happening right under your nose. Technology is increasingly likely to replace workers as the minimum wage rises. It's common sense and it's well documented:

McDonald’s has already announced plans to install touch-screen ordering systems in over 7000....locations.

Could Fast Food Automation Replace Low Wage Workers? | econfuture | Future Economics and Technology

...firms faced with higher and higher minimum wages would replace actual workers with technology, things like smart cash registers and devices like that.

Friend or Foe: Does the Minimum Wage Hurt the Workers It's Intended to Help?

 

[The Rabbi]

How many times does it have to be explained to a fool that the business needs every one of those employees to survive?

Not if it's more cost effective to replace that minimum wage employee with technology.
Not if it's more cost effective to outsource those jobs to countries without a minimum wage.

That's why employers never downsize their workforce, right?

Dumya might just be the most clueless poster since Chris left.

 

[Dragonlady]

I don't see technology replacing someone running a cash register for small business and it's already replaced what labor it can replace.

Has it replaced workers making a higher minimum wage?

Notice how the conservatives are suddenly all concerned that minimum wage workers will lose their jobs if the MW is raised? Minimum wage jobs are not ones that can be replaced by technology. People can autoscan their purchases and self check out but theft will be rampant. Fast food jobs are already as automated as they can get. Stores cannot be restocked by automation, nor can supplies be loaded or unloaded without human hands.

I think their concerns are more about prices going up on goods and services which utilize minimum wage workers, because studies have shown that raising the minimum wage doesn't cost jobs, its increases the available jobs. When lower income workers have more income to spend, that money flows back into the economy immediately, increasing sales at the lowest end of the retail spectrum, and fueling MORE jobs in the low wage spectrum.

MW workers patronize lower end retailers and fast food vendors. There is a lot of pent up consumer demand for lower income people who are struggling just to put a roof over their heads and food on the table. They're not going to the movie theatre for a night out at a cost of $50. They microwave a bag of popcorn and watch the movie at home on a pirated DVD they borrowed from a buddy. People who are barely making ends meet don't buy new furniture, cars or appliances. They don't update their wardrobes with the latest fashions. They don't have the money.

Raising the minimum wage will help stimulate the economy in every way that matters, without endangering the recovery.

 

[hunarcy]

It wasn't raising the minimum wage that caused unemployment for the middle class you idiot. It was the complete collapse of the US economy after 30 years of free market reforms.

I don't remember calling you names when you said things I don't agree with...of course, I'm a grown up, so that might be the difference.

And, you're entitled to your opinion, though not your own facts. The minimum wage was raised (fact) unemployment began to rise (fact) the housing market collapsed (fact) recession began (fact).

You can argue about the interrelationship between those facts and interject other events, but those are facts.

 

[Katzndogz]

How many times does it have to be explained to a fool that the business needs every one of those employees to survive?

Not if it's more cost effective to replace that minimum wage employee with technology.
Not if it's more cost effective to outsource those jobs to countries without a minimum wage.

Not if it's more cost effective to hire some illegal and pay them under the table.
Not if it's more cost effective to distribute that task among other employees.
Not if its more cost effective to do away with that whole department and hire another company for that task on an as needed basis.

The whole idea that a business needs all those employees just to survive is nonsense. The only employees that the business needs to survive are the employees that generate income for the company. Otherwise the low level, unskilled workers are disposable. Anyone will do.

 

[Katzndogz]

I hope obama does raise the minimum wage. It should be north of $10.00 an hour. And then he should raise taxes at the same time.

That should be enough to destroy the democrats for a couple of generations at least.

 

[Dubya]

Not if it's more cost effective to replace that minimum wage employee with technology.
Not if it's more cost effective to outsource those jobs to countries without a minimum wage.

I don't see technology replacing someone running a cash register for small business and it's already replaced what labor it can replace.

Has it replaced workers making a higher minimum wage?

You've never heard of self check out?

What you "don't see" is happening right under your nose. Technology is increasingly likely to replace workers as the minimum wage rises. It's common sense and it's well documented:

McDonald’s has already announced plans to install touch-screen ordering systems in over 7000....locations.

Could Fast Food Automation Replace Low Wage Workers? | econfuture | Future Economics and Technology

...firms faced with higher and higher minimum wages would replace actual workers with technology, things like smart cash registers and devices like that.

Friend or Foe: Does the Minimum Wage Hurt the Workers It's Intended to Help?

Have you ever heard of reading comphrehension?

Can you self check out in small businesses that haven't replaced self checkout where they can? The places that use touch-screen ordering systems aren't what I call fast food.

 

[eflatminor]

I don't see technology replacing someone running a cash register for small business and it's already replaced what labor it can replace.

Has it replaced workers making a higher minimum wage?

Notice how the conservatives are suddenly all concerned that minimum wage workers will lose their jobs if the MW is raised? Minimum wage jobs are not ones that can be replaced by technology.

McDonalds disagrees. They're replacing 7000 of their lowest paying jobs with technology.

People can autoscan their purchases and self check out but theft will be rampant.

Grocers across the nation disagree.

Fast food jobs are already as automated as they can get.

Then why is McDonalds replacing workers with technology today?

Stores cannot be restocked by automation, nor can supplies be loaded or unloaded without human hands.

Technology can be used to minimize the number of workers needed to carry out those jobs, which becomes increasingly likely the more you raise the MW. Again, the point is you advocate that which causes less jobs while alienating those that do not qualify for MW.

Sick, just sick.

...studies have shown that raising the minimum wage doesn't cost jobs, its increases the available jobs.

That makes ZERO sense, but please, show us a link.

When lower income workers have more income to spend, that money flows back into the economy immediately, increasing sales at the lowest end of the retail spectrum, and fueling MORE jobs in the low wage spectrum.

Which is more than offset by the citizens preventing from working at ALL because of the MW and the technology that is made increasingly feasible because of wage minimums. Overall, the MW is a drag on job creation but more importantly, it PREVENTS our most vulnerable and inexperienced citizens from working, which is immoral. Shame on you.

Raising the minimum wage will help stimulate the economy in every way that matters, without endangering the recovery

Tell that to the uneducated guy who can't qualify for the MW.
Tell that to the elderly worker just hoping to engage.
Tell that to the teenager who can't qualify for his first job.
Tell that to the unintelligent laborer who you've forced on the dole
Tell that to the workers whose wages and other employment requirements are no longer competitive with the technology that can replace them.