Poll: Solid majority (71%) of Americans support Obama’s increase of the minimum wage

[eflatminor]

...name the businesses in your area that can just lay off people because the minimum wage increases?

McDonalds

Can the liquor stores, sub shops, fast food, you name it, get by without those people and if they can why do they have those minimum wage workers working there now?

It's not a matter of "getting by without them", it's a matter of investing in technology that replaces those workers (same for outsourcing). The higher your force wages, the more likely that technology becomes a good investment for the company's owners, which means some will loose their MW job entirely.

If the business doesn't need them, why not get rid of them now and save $290 per week for a 40 hour week?

That's exactly what they're doing, including McDonalds. The investment in technology that will replace those workers is worth it...thanks to your support of centrally controlled prices. Well done.

Saving the business $14,500 per year plus $1,109.25 for the payroll taxes is a smart thing to do at any time. That's the cost of one full time minimum wage worker, just on those two items and workers have other costs associated with them

Right, which makes the investment in technology to replace that worker (or the outsourcing of his job) all the more likely.

 

[The Rabbi]

A business that is in production can find itself needing less production and downsize it's workforce, but small businesses only hire the people they need. Those small businesses need all their people whether business is good or not.

You clearly have no experience with small business, hiring, or running anything other than your mouth.

The owner may decide to work longer hours to compensate for an employee he can no longer afford. He may decide an expansion in personnel isn't cost justified right now, even though he has more business. He may work his existing staff longer hours on overtime rather than hire someone else.
There are myriad possibilities. But one certainty: raise the price of something you'll sell less of it.

I was born and raised in small business, fool! I know what it's like to open a store way before people go to work and stay open until dark.

You think only in terms of microeconomics as if that is the only business doing wage changes. The fact is there will be more business even if the price is slightly higher, because the people will have more money to spend.

I gave you examples of it working in other countries, so how is it possible there?

I gave you the common sense prognosis of what happens to small businesses when consumer purchasing power declines, because wages decline. The money saved by that business paying less in wages will be more than lost with consumers buy less of their product. Lowering the wages is a sure way to put businesses out of business. People aren't going to have their other expenses lowered with lower wages. The person's mortgage isn't going to become lower and neither are their other expenses to live. The person will cut back on spending and that means the businesses that depend on consumer spending will eventually fail.

Sweeping out pa's tobacco and bookie shop is not relevant experience, Einstein. Businesses do not operate in the aggregate. They operate in the specific. Their employees are likely not their customers.
But if it were as you say, businesses would be competing with each otehr to see who could pay the highest wage. Obviously the opposite is the case.

 

[Dubya]

You clearly have no experience with small business, hiring, or running anything other than your mouth.

The owner may decide to work longer hours to compensate for an employee he can no longer afford. He may decide an expansion in personnel isn't cost justified right now, even though he has more business. He may work his existing staff longer hours on overtime rather than hire someone else.
There are myriad possibilities. But one certainty: raise the price of something you'll sell less of it.

I was born and raised in small business, fool! I know what it's like to open a store way before people go to work and stay open until dark.

You think only in terms of microeconomics as if that is the only business doing wage changes. The fact is there will be more business even if the price is slightly higher, because the people will have more money to spend.

I gave you examples of it working in other countries, so how is it possible there?

I gave you the common sense prognosis of what happens to small businesses when consumer purchasing power declines, because wages decline. The money saved by that business paying less in wages will be more than lost with consumers buy less of their product. Lowering the wages is a sure way to put businesses out of business. People aren't going to have their other expenses lowered with lower wages. The person's mortgage isn't going to become lower and neither are their other expenses to live. The person will cut back on spending and that means the businesses that depend on consumer spending will eventually fail.

the flaw in your logic is that you assume that the employees spend their money at their employer's store or at the stores of others paying minimum wage.

What's actually happening is that employers are having to cut hours to avoid paying the obamacare taxes and penalties so even if minumum wage is raised, workers will be taking home less because of obozo's stupid policies.

Bullshit!

The flaw in your lack of logic is you don't see employees spending their money somewhere in the small business environment and more money is spent when people with lower incomes have more money. Some rich person making more money isn't going to spend more, but plenty of people who make up the working class of America will spend more if they have more money.

Anyday you want to explain how a Subway, McDonald's, Walmart, whatever in Europe can pay more for minimum wage and provide universal health care then do it. I told you why they can do it, because they get more business and it offsets most of the additional costs. When you have universal health care, you aren't pissing away all that extra money for health care like we do. You also aren't putting a burden on corporations, like we do our auto industry.

 

[Dubya]

You clearly have no experience with small business, hiring, or running anything other than your mouth.

The owner may decide to work longer hours to compensate for an employee he can no longer afford. He may decide an expansion in personnel isn't cost justified right now, even though he has more business. He may work his existing staff longer hours on overtime rather than hire someone else.
There are myriad possibilities. But one certainty: raise the price of something you'll sell less of it.

I was born and raised in small business, fool! I know what it's like to open a store way before people go to work and stay open until dark.

You think only in terms of microeconomics as if that is the only business doing wage changes. The fact is there will be more business even if the price is slightly higher, because the people will have more money to spend.

I gave you examples of it working in other countries, so how is it possible there?

I gave you the common sense prognosis of what happens to small businesses when consumer purchasing power declines, because wages decline. The money saved by that business paying less in wages will be more than lost with consumers buy less of their product. Lowering the wages is a sure way to put businesses out of business. People aren't going to have their other expenses lowered with lower wages. The person's mortgage isn't going to become lower and neither are their other expenses to live. The person will cut back on spending and that means the businesses that depend on consumer spending will eventually fail.

Just imagine how much new business there would be if the kiddies were paid a100 dollar minimum wage !

Raising a minimum wage too much would just readjust prices to a new level. The problem with this country is the minimum wage is too low and it's been proven to be too low.

When are you going to grow up and realize those people making minimum wage are not the kiddies you imagine?

 

[Dubya]

I was born and raised in small business, fool! I know what it's like to open a store way before people go to work and stay open until dark.

You think only in terms of microeconomics as if that is the only business doing wage changes. The fact is there will be more business even if the price is slightly higher, because the people will have more money to spend.

I gave you examples of it working in other countries, so how is it possible there?

I gave you the common sense prognosis of what happens to small businesses when consumer purchasing power declines, because wages decline. The money saved by that business paying less in wages will be more than lost with consumers buy less of their product. Lowering the wages is a sure way to put businesses out of business. People aren't going to have their other expenses lowered with lower wages. The person's mortgage isn't going to become lower and neither are their other expenses to live. The person will cut back on spending and that means the businesses that depend on consumer spending will eventually fail.

Just imagine how much new business there would be if the kiddies were paid a100 dollar minimum wage !

right, $500/hour for burger flippers, the economy would soar, everyone would be rich, gold would be falling off trees, diamonds would be raining from the sky,

Oh glorious day when liberalism prevails----------Duh---nope

I gave you the stats on minimum wage workers, so why do you say right when only 21.1% of minimum wage or below minimum wage workers are 16 to 19 years old? That means 78.9% aren't teenagers.

Tables 1 - 10; Characteristics of Minimum Wage Workers: 2012

 

[Samson]

I was born and raised in small business, fool! I know what it's like to open a store way before people go to work and stay open until dark.

Lemme Guess.


You make Ballon Animals

 

[eflatminor]

The flaw in your lack of logic is you don't see employees spending their money somewhere in the small business environment and more money is spent when people with lower incomes have more money. Some rich person making more money isn't going to spend more, but plenty of people who make up the working class of America will spend more if they have more money.

Even if we accept your argument that forcing a business to pay their employees more results in those employees spending more (and it therefore good for the economy), you completely overlook the fact that a minimum wage keeps many people from getting hired in the first place (typically our must vulnerable citizens) and greatly increases the chances that technology or outsourcing will replace existing employees.

So, you end up with a few MW workers getting (and probably spending) a bit more money, but that is WAY MORE than offset by the workers that don't get hired in the first place or lose their jobs because alternatives are more economical than their minimum wage. These folks not only don't spend their wages in our economy, they end up on the dole. Your "good for the economy" argument holds no water.

Lastly, your minimum wage keeps our most vulnerable citizens from working, which is just immoral in my opinion.

 

[Dubya]

...name the businesses in your area that can just lay off people because the minimum wage increases?

McDonalds

Can the liquor stores, sub shops, fast food, you name it, get by without those people and if they can why do they have those minimum wage workers working there now?

It's not a matter of "getting by without them", it's a matter of investing in technology that replaces those workers (same for outsourcing). The higher your force wages, the more likely that technology becomes a good investment for the company's owners, which means some will loose their MW job entirely.

If the business doesn't need them, why not get rid of them now and save $290 per week for a 40 hour week?

That's exactly what they're doing, including McDonalds. The investment in technology that will replace those workers is worth it...thanks to your support of centrally controlled prices. Well done.

Saving the business $14,500 per year plus $1,109.25 for the payroll taxes is a smart thing to do at any time. That's the cost of one full time minimum wage worker, just on those two items and workers have other costs associated with them

Right, which makes the investment in technology to replace that worker (or the outsourcing of his job) all the more likely.

You must have a stupid person running your McDonald's to pay for any labor that isn't needed. They don't do it around here.

There is very little technology that can replace workers that isn't already used.

 

[eflatminor]

...name the businesses in your area that can just lay off people because the minimum wage increases?

McDonalds



It's not a matter of "getting by without them", it's a matter of investing in technology that replaces those workers (same for outsourcing). The higher your force wages, the more likely that technology becomes a good investment for the company's owners, which means some will loose their MW job entirely.



That's exactly what they're doing, including McDonalds. The investment in technology that will replace those workers is worth it...thanks to your support of centrally controlled prices. Well done.

Saving the business $14,500 per year plus $1,109.25 for the payroll taxes is a smart thing to do at any time. That's the cost of one full time minimum wage worker, just on those two items and workers have other costs associated with them

Right, which makes the investment in technology to replace that worker (or the outsourcing of his job) all the more likely.

You must have a stupid person running your McDonald's to pay for any labor that isn't needed. They don't do it around here.

7000 workers being replaced at McDonalds by technology. Sorry if the facts don't support your agenda.

There is very little technology that can replace workers that isn't already used.

Spoken like a true Luddite. And McDonalds, who I'm going to say knows a lot more about their business than you do, disagrees.

 

[Dubya]

You clearly have no experience with small business, hiring, or running anything other than your mouth.

The owner may decide to work longer hours to compensate for an employee he can no longer afford. He may decide an expansion in personnel isn't cost justified right now, even though he has more business. He may work his existing staff longer hours on overtime rather than hire someone else.
There are myriad possibilities. But one certainty: raise the price of something you'll sell less of it.

I was born and raised in small business, fool! I know what it's like to open a store way before people go to work and stay open until dark.

You think only in terms of microeconomics as if that is the only business doing wage changes. The fact is there will be more business even if the price is slightly higher, because the people will have more money to spend.

I gave you examples of it working in other countries, so how is it possible there?

I gave you the common sense prognosis of what happens to small businesses when consumer purchasing power declines, because wages decline. The money saved by that business paying less in wages will be more than lost with consumers buy less of their product. Lowering the wages is a sure way to put businesses out of business. People aren't going to have their other expenses lowered with lower wages. The person's mortgage isn't going to become lower and neither are their other expenses to live. The person will cut back on spending and that means the businesses that depend on consumer spending will eventually fail.

Sweeping out pa's tobacco and bookie shop is not relevant experience, Einstein. Businesses do not operate in the aggregate. They operate in the specific. Their employees are likely not their customers.
But if it were as you say, businesses would be competing with each otehr to see who could pay the highest wage. Obviously the opposite is the case.

We have another fool claiming the employees have to be the customers, when we are talking about employees from many businesses getting a raise. It's just too complicated for the right-wing brain to figure out businesses will be hurt if wages are too low.

 

[Samson]

You must have a stupid person running your McDonald's.

 

[Dubya]

The flaw in your lack of logic is you don't see employees spending their money somewhere in the small business environment and more money is spent when people with lower incomes have more money. Some rich person making more money isn't going to spend more, but plenty of people who make up the working class of America will spend more if they have more money.

Even if we accept your argument that forcing a business to pay their employees more results in those employees spending more (and it therefore good for the economy), you completely overlook the fact that a minimum wage keeps many people from getting hired in the first place (typically our must vulnerable citizens) and greatly increases the chances that technology or outsourcing will replace existing employees.

So, you end up with a few MW workers getting (and probably spending) a bit more money, but that is WAY MORE than offset by the workers that don't get hired in the first place or lose their jobs because alternatives are more economical than their minimum wage. These folks not only don't spend their wages in our economy, they end up on the dole. Your "good for the economy" argument holds no water.

Lastly, your minimum wage keeps our most vulnerable citizens from working, which is just immoral in my opinion.

You can't outsource a job a McDonald's or someone working a cash register at Wawa. Wawa uses touch-screens for deli orders and I avoid using them. I will use the quick check out in stores when it's available, but they still have someone watching the machines.

 

[Dubya]

McDonalds



It's not a matter of "getting by without them", it's a matter of investing in technology that replaces those workers (same for outsourcing). The higher your force wages, the more likely that technology becomes a good investment for the company's owners, which means some will loose their MW job entirely.



That's exactly what they're doing, including McDonalds. The investment in technology that will replace those workers is worth it...thanks to your support of centrally controlled prices. Well done.



Right, which makes the investment in technology to replace that worker (or the outsourcing of his job) all the more likely.

You must have a stupid person running your McDonald's to pay for any labor that isn't needed. They don't do it around here.

7000 workers being replaced at McDonalds by technology. Sorry if the facts don't support your agenda.

There is very little technology that can replace workers that isn't already used.

Spoken like a true Luddite. And McDonalds, who I'm going to say knows a lot more about their business than you do, disagrees.

When was the last time you were in a McDonald's that only had the person operating the register and not filling the order?

 

[eflatminor]

It's just too complicated for the right-wing brain to figure out businesses will be hurt if wages are too low.

That would only be true if minimum wage laws didn't prevent so many people from working at ALL, which is exactly what happens in the real world. If MW employees (only a few percent of the working populace) get a bit more money, that may help the businesses where they shop, but those same companies must also bear the burden of all the people that are prevented from working by MW laws and therefore go on the dole. So, in the end, it's not good for business and it's immoral as hell to prevent a man from working just because his background, intelligence or capabilities do not warrant your minimum wage. Shame on you for that.

 

[eflatminor]

You must have a stupid person running your McDonald's to pay for any labor that isn't needed. They don't do it around here.

7000 workers being replaced at McDonalds by technology. Sorry if the facts don't support your agenda.

There is very little technology that can replace workers that isn't already used.

Spoken like a true Luddite. And McDonalds, who I'm going to say knows a lot more about their business than you do, disagrees.

When was the last time you were in a McDonald's that only had the person operating the register and not filling the order?

Non sequiter. McDonalds is replacing 7000 employees with technology. It's a fact. Again, sorry if the truth doesn't fit your agenda.

 

[Dubya]

It's just too complicated for the right-wing brain to figure out businesses will be hurt if wages are too low.

That would only be true if minimum wage laws didn't prevent so many people from working at ALL, which is exactly what happens in the real world. If MW employees (only a few percent of the working populace) get a bit more money, that may help the businesses where they shop, but those same companies must also bear the burden of all the people that are prevented from working by MW laws and therefore go on the dole. So, in the end, it's not good for business and it's immoral as hell to prevent a man from working just because his background, intelligence or capabilities do not warrant your minimum wage. Shame on you for that.

MW sets the standards for near MW jobs.

 

[Redfish]

I was born and raised in small business, fool! I know what it's like to open a store way before people go to work and stay open until dark.

You think only in terms of microeconomics as if that is the only business doing wage changes. The fact is there will be more business even if the price is slightly higher, because the people will have more money to spend.

I gave you examples of it working in other countries, so how is it possible there?

I gave you the common sense prognosis of what happens to small businesses when consumer purchasing power declines, because wages decline. The money saved by that business paying less in wages will be more than lost with consumers buy less of their product. Lowering the wages is a sure way to put businesses out of business. People aren't going to have their other expenses lowered with lower wages. The person's mortgage isn't going to become lower and neither are their other expenses to live. The person will cut back on spending and that means the businesses that depend on consumer spending will eventually fail.

the flaw in your logic is that you assume that the employees spend their money at their employer's store or at the stores of others paying minimum wage.

What's actually happening is that employers are having to cut hours to avoid paying the obamacare taxes and penalties so even if minumum wage is raised, workers will be taking home less because of obozo's stupid policies.

Bullshit!

The flaw in your lack of logic is you don't see employees spending their money somewhere in the small business environment and more money is spent when people with lower incomes have more money. Some rich person making more money isn't going to spend more, but plenty of people who make up the working class of America will spend more if they have more money.

Anyday you want to explain how a Subway, McDonald's, Walmart, whatever in Europe can pay more for minimum wage and provide universal health care then do it. I told you why they can do it, because they get more business and it offsets most of the additional costs. When you have universal health care, you aren't pissing away all that extra money for health care like we do. You also aren't putting a burden on corporations, like we do our auto industry.

what has your MW guy gained if he makes an additional $50/week but it costs him $50/week more to buy the things he needs? Thats what you guys don't get, minimum wage increases are inflationary, they cause the price of everything to go up.

so yes, your MW guy has more money going through his hands, but he is no better off.

 

[Dubya]

7000 workers being replaced at McDonalds by technology. Sorry if the facts don't support your agenda.



Spoken like a true Luddite. And McDonalds, who I'm going to say knows a lot more about their business than you do, disagrees.

When was the last time you were in a McDonald's that only had the person operating the register and not filling the order?

Non sequiter. McDonalds is replacing 7000 employees with technology. It's a fact. Again, sorry if the truth doesn't fit your agenda.

The person does more work than just operate a register, so show me how a touch-screen is going to do the work filling the order! Don't you know anything about math or is simple arithmetic too complicated? It isn't going to save McDonald's the amount equal to replacing 7000 employees with machines. The machines can't do all the work of those employees. Does the machine cleanup before it leaves to go home or any of the other chores a minimum wage worker has to do when a customer isn't present?

 

[Dubya]

the flaw in your logic is that you assume that the employees spend their money at their employer's store or at the stores of others paying minimum wage.

What's actually happening is that employers are having to cut hours to avoid paying the obamacare taxes and penalties so even if minumum wage is raised, workers will be taking home less because of obozo's stupid policies.

Bullshit!

The flaw in your lack of logic is you don't see employees spending their money somewhere in the small business environment and more money is spent when people with lower incomes have more money. Some rich person making more money isn't going to spend more, but plenty of people who make up the working class of America will spend more if they have more money.

Anyday you want to explain how a Subway, McDonald's, Walmart, whatever in Europe can pay more for minimum wage and provide universal health care then do it. I told you why they can do it, because they get more business and it offsets most of the additional costs. When you have universal health care, you aren't pissing away all that extra money for health care like we do. You also aren't putting a burden on corporations, like we do our auto industry.

what has your MW guy gained if he makes an additional $50/week but it costs him $50/week more to buy the things he needs? Thats what you guys don't get, minimum wage increases are inflationary, they cause the price of everything to go up.

so yes, your MW guy has more money going through his hands, but he is no better off.

The American economy is fucked because wages are too low. If we put the wages back and stop this outsourcing nonsense, the American economy will take off.

 

[eflatminor]

The flaw in your lack of logic is you don't see employees spending their money somewhere in the small business environment and more money is spent when people with lower incomes have more money. Some rich person making more money isn't going to spend more, but plenty of people who make up the working class of America will spend more if they have more money.

Even if we accept your argument that forcing a business to pay their employees more results in those employees spending more (and it therefore good for the economy), you completely overlook the fact that a minimum wage keeps many people from getting hired in the first place (typically our must vulnerable citizens) and greatly increases the chances that technology or outsourcing will replace existing employees.

So, you end up with a few MW workers getting (and probably spending) a bit more money, but that is WAY MORE than offset by the workers that don't get hired in the first place or lose their jobs because alternatives are more economical than their minimum wage. These folks not only don't spend their wages in our economy, they end up on the dole. Your "good for the economy" argument holds no water.

Lastly, your minimum wage keeps our most vulnerable citizens from working, which is just immoral in my opinion.

You can't outsource a job a McDonald's or someone working a cash register at Wawa.

Wrong. Fast food places have and continue to experiment with centralized call centers to take drive through orders. Further, not all MW jobs are at fast food places. Other industries employ low wage workers that can, and have, been replaced with technology or outsourcing.

Wawa uses touch-screens for deli orders and I avoid using them.

Your choice, which I'm sure you appreciate having. Now if you'd only allow workers the choice of accepting or not wages offered by employers. But of course, you know what's best for everyone else, right???

I will use the quick check out in stores when it's available, but they still have someone watching the machines.

One guy watching the machine. Before that investment in technology, more workers were required. Thanks to your MW, that investment in technology made sense. Now there is only one worker watching. Well done.

Now tell us, why have you avoided addressing my main point, that imposing a MW keeps many of our most vulnerable citizens from working at all? How do you justify keeping young people from building their resume? How do you justify preventing an elderly person from seeking employment at whatever wage he feels adequate? How do you justify preventing our most uneducated and unintelligent citizens from working at all?

Again, I find that immoral. How do you justify it?