Poll: Solid majority (71%) of Americans support Obama’s increase of the minimum wage

[Dubya]

My labor costs run about 35% because we are a fine dining restaurant. The general rule of thumb is that your prime costs (food cost & labor cost) should add up to somewhere in the 60 to 65% range in order to be profitable. If you have 10 employees being paid minimum wage (which is about what we do have) an increase of $1 an hour would mean an increase to our annual labor cost of approximately $20,000...and an increase of the magnitude that you are suggesting, $2 an hour, would cost me around $40,000 per year. That ISN'T small money. It's a lot of money in an industry where the typical profit margin for a fine dining restaurant is in the 4% range.

Do yourself a favor, Dubya...don't try to tell others how THEIR businesses should run when you REALLY don't understand the first thing about the industry that they are in!

You claim to have 10 employees making minimum wage in a restaurant and say they are working 2000 hours per year. I've been connected to many restaurants and they don't operate like that. People who work in restaurants don't work 8 hours, 5 days a week. I take it this is just one example of your restaurants you claim to own.

Your 35% figure is operating expenses, but that isn't all the expenses in the cost of doing business, is it? I notice you can't calculate a percentage increase in the cost of doing business or even calculate the percentage increase in the cost of labor.

As far as talking about increasing the minimum wage, that is just as much my business as yours. If you don't like the rules in this country, take your restaurant somewhere else! Do you think it's going to be missed?

Are you sure you are smart enough to own a restaurant?

Your word comprehension skills are rather lacking, Dubya. I SAID that my labor costs were in the area of 35% and that my prime costs (labor, food and alcohol) were in the 60 to 65% range. I have many other operating expenses. As I stated before, my profit margin is typically in the 4% range. Raising labor costs over 30% is going to mean that I'm going to have to raise my prices accordingly which means I run the risk of pricing myself out of the market for many people who are on fixed incomes...which here in the State of Florida is quite a few folks.

Are YOU sure you know enough about the restaurant business to try to tell someone who's made a career in the hospitality industy how they should be running theirs? I don't think you do, Dubya. I think you're pretty clueless about what the owners of MOST small businesses face these days because I don't think you've ever owned a business, let alone a restaurant.

My reading comprehension works fine and you are the one with the double talk. You claim to own restaurants and said one of those restaurants is for fine dining and has 10 minimum wage workers. Earlier you said only the dishwasher gets minimum wage, but it's possible to pay others minimum wage like a busboy or pay bartenders or waitresses minimum wage. Very few places do, because they rely on tip income. I don't think a service bartender would work for minimum wage, unless they received tips. How can people go to college and work 2,000 hours per year? I've done it and know what it's like to live on 4 hours of sleep a day for a year, but very few people can do it. What restaurant works their people 40 hours per week? Even fine dining has it's good days and bad, so people working during part of the week aren't going to be making good money. The good money tends to be around the weekend.

 

[Dubya]

This is what you said:



Now, these 10 people at one restaurant are teenagers and you say they work 2,000 hours per year and some are in college. That isn't like any restaurant or reality I've ever heard of.

My dishwashers and bussers are teens. What do you find to be so strange about that? It's the typical starting job for many young people and EXACTLY how I got started many years ago.

He obviously knows he has lost the argument and is reduced to playing word games to try to distract from his poor performance in this thread.

You don't find it strange that a restaurant has 10 people working 2,000 hours per year as dishwashers and busboys?

 

[Dubya]

The ten people who are employed by me at minimum wage are all teenagers. For most of them this is their first job...a job to which they came with very few job skills...and for which they had to be trained. The jobs that they are doing are typically not something any of them will be doing for long. They are "bridge" jobs to other positions or other jobs. It allows them to show a reliable work history and gives them a reference to be used when applying for other work. I don't believe ANY of them are on food stamps or goverment subsidized medical care because most of them live at home or are attending college.

As for raising my prices? That would be the result of raising the minimum wage. My prices would go up as would the prices for most businesses providing goods and services. I guess anyone on a fixed income would just be shit outta luck, huh? We'll just jack up prices on them and they'll have to deal with it?

This is what you said:

How could it not?

I run restaurants. I pay a competitive wage that is loosely established by the going rate of the locale I'm in. A diswasher makes $7 an hour...one step up the employee chain are prep cooks that make $9 an hour...one step up from them are line cooks that make $11 an hour.

So what do you think happens when I give that low end employee a "raise" to $9 an hour? It's a pretty simple concept! The prep cook isn't going to be happy making the same amount as the disher because they know they're more skilled than the disher so they're going to demand a raise to $11 an hour. Then the same thing happens with the line cooks being unhappy that they are making the same as a prep cook. So in order to maintain a balance in wages...I have to give EVERYONE a raise!

Now, these 10 people at one restaurant are teenagers and you say they work 2,000 hours per year and some are in college. That isn't like any restaurant or reality I've ever heard of.

My dishwashers and bussers are teens. What do you find to be so strange about that? It's the typical starting job for many young people and EXACTLY how I got started many years ago.

Busboys usually get a cut of the tips and don't have to be paid minimum wage.

 

[Oldstyle]

You claim to have 10 employees making minimum wage in a restaurant and say they are working 2000 hours per year. I've been connected to many restaurants and they don't operate like that. People who work in restaurants don't work 8 hours, 5 days a week. I take it this is just one example of your restaurants you claim to own.

Your 35% figure is operating expenses, but that isn't all the expenses in the cost of doing business, is it? I notice you can't calculate a percentage increase in the cost of doing business or even calculate the percentage increase in the cost of labor.

As far as talking about increasing the minimum wage, that is just as much my business as yours. If you don't like the rules in this country, take your restaurant somewhere else! Do you think it's going to be missed?

Are you sure you are smart enough to own a restaurant?

Your word comprehension skills are rather lacking, Dubya. I SAID that my labor costs were in the area of 35% and that my prime costs (labor, food and alcohol) were in the 60 to 65% range. I have many other operating expenses. As I stated before, my profit margin is typically in the 4% range. Raising labor costs over 30% is going to mean that I'm going to have to raise my prices accordingly which means I run the risk of pricing myself out of the market for many people who are on fixed incomes...which here in the State of Florida is quite a few folks.

Are YOU sure you know enough about the restaurant business to try to tell someone who's made a career in the hospitality industy how they should be running theirs? I don't think you do, Dubya. I think you're pretty clueless about what the owners of MOST small businesses face these days because I don't think you've ever owned a business, let alone a restaurant.

My reading comprehension works fine and you are the one with the double talk. You claim to own restaurants and said one of those restaurants is for fine dining and has 10 minimum wage workers. Earlier you said only the dishwasher gets minimum wage, but it's possible to pay others minimum wage like a busboy or pay bartenders or waitresses minimum wage. Very few places do, because they rely on tip income. I don't think a service bartender would work for minimum wage, unless they received tips. How can people go to college and work 2,000 hours per year? I've done it and know what it's like to live on 4 hours of sleep a day for a year, but very few people can do it. What restaurant works their people 40 hours per week? Even fine dining has it's good days and bad, so people working during part of the week aren't going to be making good money. The good money tends to be around the weekend.

I used the dishwasher as an example of a person who is getting minimum wage on my wage "totem pole". I did not say the dishwashers were the only people recieving that wage.

As for the hours that my people work? You obviously don't know very much about this business because during season people work a lot more hours than they do during off season. Although we make every effort to keep overtime from occurring because of the cost it's something you have to absorb if the volume requires it, or you lose people to sickness or injury. Right now we're all working overtime. I'm in the 60 to 65 hour a week range but I'm on salary. I just fired a bartender so the others are picking up extra shifts until Easter when things slow down. We had a line cook leave for another job (more money...amazing how that works!) and we've had to cover his shifts in the kitchen.

As for when people make money? You're as clueless there as everywhere else. I have much more staff on a Friday or Saturday so the money coming in is split more ways. A waitperson can make more on a Monday than on a Friday simply because there are fewer servers scheduled.

The more you try to pretend you know the restaurant business, Dubya...the more you show yourself to KNOW very little.

 

[Oldstyle]

This is what you said:



Now, these 10 people at one restaurant are teenagers and you say they work 2,000 hours per year and some are in college. That isn't like any restaurant or reality I've ever heard of.

My dishwashers and bussers are teens. What do you find to be so strange about that? It's the typical starting job for many young people and EXACTLY how I got started many years ago.

Busboys usually get a cut of the tips and don't have to be paid minimum wage.

Even people working for tips are guaranteed minimum wage. If they don't make enough in tips the restaurant is required by law to make up the difference.

 

[Dubya]

Your word comprehension skills are rather lacking, Dubya. I SAID that my labor costs were in the area of 35% and that my prime costs (labor, food and alcohol) were in the 60 to 65% range. I have many other operating expenses. As I stated before, my profit margin is typically in the 4% range. Raising labor costs over 30% is going to mean that I'm going to have to raise my prices accordingly which means I run the risk of pricing myself out of the market for many people who are on fixed incomes...which here in the State of Florida is quite a few folks.

Are YOU sure you know enough about the restaurant business to try to tell someone who's made a career in the hospitality industy how they should be running theirs? I don't think you do, Dubya. I think you're pretty clueless about what the owners of MOST small businesses face these days because I don't think you've ever owned a business, let alone a restaurant.

My reading comprehension works fine and you are the one with the double talk. You claim to own restaurants and said one of those restaurants is for fine dining and has 10 minimum wage workers. Earlier you said only the dishwasher gets minimum wage, but it's possible to pay others minimum wage like a busboy or pay bartenders or waitresses minimum wage. Very few places do, because they rely on tip income. I don't think a service bartender would work for minimum wage, unless they received tips. How can people go to college and work 2,000 hours per year? I've done it and know what it's like to live on 4 hours of sleep a day for a year, but very few people can do it. What restaurant works their people 40 hours per week? Even fine dining has it's good days and bad, so people working during part of the week aren't going to be making good money. The good money tends to be around the weekend.

I used the dishwasher as an example of a person who is getting minimum wage on my wage "totem pole". I did not say the dishwashers were the only people recieving that wage.

As for the hours that my people work? You obviously don't know very much about this business because during season people work a lot more hours than they do during off season. Although we make every effort to keep overtime from occurring because of the cost it's something you have to absorb if the volume requires it, or you lose people to sickness or injury. Right now we're all working overtime. I'm in the 60 to 65 hour a week range but I'm on salary. I just fired a bartender so the others are picking up extra shifts until Easter when things slow down. We had a line cook leave for another job (more money...amazing how that works!) and we've had to cover his shifts in the kitchen.

As for when people make money? You're as clueless there as everywhere else. I have much more staff on a Friday or Saturday so the money coming in is split more ways. A waitperson can make more on a Monday than on a Friday simply because there are fewer servers scheduled.

The more you try to pretend you know the restaurant business, Dubya...the more you show yourself to KNOW very little.

I have enough sense to know there are variables, but the fine dining restaurants around here have their employees making more money around the weekends. I also know that restaurant would have to be one big place to have 10 minimum wage workers working 2,000 hours per year, because waitresses aren't minimum wage workers.

You were asked to show how much a minimum wage increase would increase the percentage of your business expenses and I pointed out the cost of the business is part of the cost of doing business. Now, you've went from the owner of many restaurants to someone working in one.

 

[hunarcy]

My dishwashers and bussers are teens. What do you find to be so strange about that? It's the typical starting job for many young people and EXACTLY how I got started many years ago.

He obviously knows he has lost the argument and is reduced to playing word games to try to distract from his poor performance in this thread.

You don't find it strange that a restaurant has 10 people working 2,000 hours per year as dishwashers and busboys?

I don't even find it strange that you seek to deliberately "misinterpret" what he has said to mean such things. It's a very predictable tactic.

Continue on if you feel you must.

 

[Dubya]

He obviously knows he has lost the argument and is reduced to playing word games to try to distract from his poor performance in this thread.

You don't find it strange that a restaurant has 10 people working 2,000 hours per year as dishwashers and busboys?

I don't even find it strange that you seek to deliberately "misinterpret" what he has said to mean such things. It's a very predictable tactic.

Continue on if you feel you must.

What other employees would make minimum wage and most of the time, busboys don't make minimum wage, because they get a cut of the tip income. Since employers aren't required to pay them minimum wage, most don't.

 

[Oldstyle]

My reading comprehension works fine and you are the one with the double talk. You claim to own restaurants and said one of those restaurants is for fine dining and has 10 minimum wage workers. Earlier you said only the dishwasher gets minimum wage, but it's possible to pay others minimum wage like a busboy or pay bartenders or waitresses minimum wage. Very few places do, because they rely on tip income. I don't think a service bartender would work for minimum wage, unless they received tips. How can people go to college and work 2,000 hours per year? I've done it and know what it's like to live on 4 hours of sleep a day for a year, but very few people can do it. What restaurant works their people 40 hours per week? Even fine dining has it's good days and bad, so people working during part of the week aren't going to be making good money. The good money tends to be around the weekend.

I used the dishwasher as an example of a person who is getting minimum wage on my wage "totem pole". I did not say the dishwashers were the only people recieving that wage.

As for the hours that my people work? You obviously don't know very much about this business because during season people work a lot more hours than they do during off season. Although we make every effort to keep overtime from occurring because of the cost it's something you have to absorb if the volume requires it, or you lose people to sickness or injury. Right now we're all working overtime. I'm in the 60 to 65 hour a week range but I'm on salary. I just fired a bartender so the others are picking up extra shifts until Easter when things slow down. We had a line cook leave for another job (more money...amazing how that works!) and we've had to cover his shifts in the kitchen.

As for when people make money? You're as clueless there as everywhere else. I have much more staff on a Friday or Saturday so the money coming in is split more ways. A waitperson can make more on a Monday than on a Friday simply because there are fewer servers scheduled.

The more you try to pretend you know the restaurant business, Dubya...the more you show yourself to KNOW very little.

I have enough sense to know there are variables, but the fine dining restaurants around here have their employees making more money around the weekends. I also know that restaurant would have to be one big place to have 10 minimum wage workers working 2,000 hours per year, because waitresses aren't minimum wage workers.

You were asked to show how much a minimum wage increase would increase the percentage of your business expenses and I pointed out the cost of the business is part of the cost of doing business. Now, you've went from the owner of many restaurants to someone working in one.

Let me see if I can explain this so even you can understand it...

On a Friday or Saturday, I have the maximum number of servers on because I know that it will be busy. Each server will typically have a 3 table station. On say a Monday, I have far fewer servers scheduled because typically Mondays are slower than a Friday or a Saturday but their station might encompass as many as 6 tables if the restaurant were to fill up...which DOES happen. The possibility of making much more money on nights other than Friday or Saturday exists because it's impossible to know as a scheduling manager when those unusually busy nights are going to occur.

 

[Dubya]

I used the dishwasher as an example of a person who is getting minimum wage on my wage "totem pole". I did not say the dishwashers were the only people recieving that wage.

As for the hours that my people work? You obviously don't know very much about this business because during season people work a lot more hours than they do during off season. Although we make every effort to keep overtime from occurring because of the cost it's something you have to absorb if the volume requires it, or you lose people to sickness or injury. Right now we're all working overtime. I'm in the 60 to 65 hour a week range but I'm on salary. I just fired a bartender so the others are picking up extra shifts until Easter when things slow down. We had a line cook leave for another job (more money...amazing how that works!) and we've had to cover his shifts in the kitchen.

As for when people make money? You're as clueless there as everywhere else. I have much more staff on a Friday or Saturday so the money coming in is split more ways. A waitperson can make more on a Monday than on a Friday simply because there are fewer servers scheduled.

The more you try to pretend you know the restaurant business, Dubya...the more you show yourself to KNOW very little.

I have enough sense to know there are variables, but the fine dining restaurants around here have their employees making more money around the weekends. I also know that restaurant would have to be one big place to have 10 minimum wage workers working 2,000 hours per year, because waitresses aren't minimum wage workers.

You were asked to show how much a minimum wage increase would increase the percentage of your business expenses and I pointed out the cost of the business is part of the cost of doing business. Now, you've went from the owner of many restaurants to someone working in one.

Let me see if I can explain this so even you can understand it...

On a Friday or Saturday, I have the maximum number of servers on because I know that it will be busy. Each server will typically have a 3 table station. On say a Monday, I have far fewer servers scheduled because typically Mondays are slower than a Friday or a Saturday but their station might encompass as many as 6 tables if the restaurant were to fill up...which DOES happen. The possibility of making much more money on nights other than Friday or Saturday exists because it's impossible to know as a scheduling manager when those unusually busy nights are going to occur.

I do understand the possibilities to make more money in a restaurant on what normally is an off day, but possibilities and probabilities are two things and waitresses want the weekends to make more money most of the time. In a fine dining restaurant, a waitress can make good money with a three table station.

 

[Oldstyle]

I have enough sense to know there are variables, but the fine dining restaurants around here have their employees making more money around the weekends. I also know that restaurant would have to be one big place to have 10 minimum wage workers working 2,000 hours per year, because waitresses aren't minimum wage workers.

You were asked to show how much a minimum wage increase would increase the percentage of your business expenses and I pointed out the cost of the business is part of the cost of doing business. Now, you've went from the owner of many restaurants to someone working in one.

Let me see if I can explain this so even you can understand it...

On a Friday or Saturday, I have the maximum number of servers on because I know that it will be busy. Each server will typically have a 3 table station. On say a Monday, I have far fewer servers scheduled because typically Mondays are slower than a Friday or a Saturday but their station might encompass as many as 6 tables if the restaurant were to fill up...which DOES happen. The possibility of making much more money on nights other than Friday or Saturday exists because it's impossible to know as a scheduling manager when those unusually busy nights are going to occur.

I do understand the possibilities to make more money in a restaurant on what normally is an off day, but possibilities and probabilities are two things and waitresses want the weekends to make more money most of the time. In a fine dining restaurant, a waitress can make good money with a three table station.

They will indeed make good money with a constantly full three table station. They will not however make as much as with a full four table station which will NEVER happen on a Friday or Saturday but MIGHT happen on a Monday. I know this is hard for you to grasp, Dubya but I'm sure anyone out there who HAS worked in the business would be happy to support me in this. If you're bartending by yourself on a weekday and you've got a full bar? You're apt to make more money than if you're working with another bartender on the weekend and you have to split tips.

 

[Oldstyle]

Which in no way changes the discussion that raising minimum wage isn't going to be the "wonderful" thing that you progressives THINK it will be.

 

[Dubya]

Which in no way changes the discussion that raising minimum wage isn't going to be the "wonderful" thing that you progressives THINK it will be.

Progressives are willing to support what they with facts and you aren't. In all these pages you can't put a percentage increase in the cost of doing business to a proposed minimum wage increase. The fact is if we kept decreasing minimum wage, you would lose some of your customers, because some have to own businesses that would go bankrupt.

 

[JQPublic1]

So you think that increasing the cost of labor will somehow produce more of it?

Workers are very grateful for their increase thus turnover is dramatically reduced. Workers have more to spend and the local economy benefits greatly. Everyone is happy!

So I guess you are arguing that. It's not correct. but oh well, to each his own.

Its not even debatable, Kidrocks is right! When average Americans have more money in their pockets it is spent on food, bills and comfort items. Even you cannot deny that when people have and spend money more jobs are created than lost! Hell, give em 15 dollars an hour and watch the economy take off! ANother thing! Just watch the welfare rolls shrink drastically as more poor people race to work for a decent wage. Granted, inflation might raise its ugly head, but at least the economy will be booming!

 

[Oldstyle]

Which in no way changes the discussion that raising minimum wage isn't going to be the "wonderful" thing that you progressives THINK it will be.

Progressives are willing to support what they with facts and you aren't. In all these pages you can't put a percentage increase in the cost of doing business to a proposed minimum wage increase. The fact is if we kept decreasing minimum wage, you would lose some of your customers, because some have to own businesses that would go bankrupt.

You remember me talking about that line cook that left for "greener pastures"? He's the reason why wages don't keep going down. It's simply because there is competition in the market place for skilled labor. We weren't willing to pay him as much as someone else and therefore we lost him. That's a free market in action. I suppose I could pay everyone half what I am now, if there were no regulations on what I'm required to pay but I'd be foolish to do so because I would lose ALL my employees.

 

[Oldstyle]

Workers are very grateful for their increase thus turnover is dramatically reduced. Workers have more to spend and the local economy benefits greatly. Everyone is happy!

So I guess you are arguing that. It's not correct. but oh well, to each his own.

Its not even debatable, Kidrocks is right! When average Americans have more money in their pockets it is spent on food, bills and comfort items. Even you cannot deny that when people have and spend money more jobs are created than lost! Hell, give em 15 dollars an hour and watch the economy take off! ANother thing! Just watch the welfare rolls shrink drastically as more poor people race to work for a decent wage. Granted, inflation might raise its ugly head, but at least the economy will be booming!

Inflation might raise it's ugly head? Might? LOL, now THERE'S the understatement of the year! Heck...JQ...why not pay everyone a thousand dollars an hour and the economy would REALLY start booming. You folks live in such a fantasy world that it's amazing that you can function on a daily basis.

 

[Dubya]

Which in no way changes the discussion that raising minimum wage isn't going to be the "wonderful" thing that you progressives THINK it will be.

Progressives are willing to support what they with facts and you aren't. In all these pages you can't put a percentage increase in the cost of doing business to a proposed minimum wage increase. The fact is if we kept decreasing minimum wage, you would lose some of your customers, because some have to own businesses that would go bankrupt.

You remember me talking about that line cook that left for "greener pastures"? He's the reason why wages don't keep going down. It's simply because there is competition in the market place for skilled labor. We weren't willing to pay him as much as someone else and therefore we lost him. That's a free market in action. I suppose I could pay everyone half what I am now, if there were no regulations on what I'm required to pay but I'd be foolish to do so because I would lose ALL my employees.

The American workers have lost purchasing power and that means their wages are lower based on historical standards. As American workers lose purchasing power, American small business loses customers and that includes even a small business dealing in fine dining. Surely some of those customers own the small businesses that are less profitable, so they cut back on their spending as well.

 

[JQPublic1]

So I guess you are arguing that. It's not correct. but oh well, to each his own.

Its not even debatable, Kidrocks is right! When average Americans have more money in their pockets it is spent on food, bills and comfort items. Even you cannot deny that when people have and spend money more jobs are created than lost! Hell, give em 15 dollars an hour and watch the economy take off! ANother thing! Just watch the welfare rolls shrink drastically as more poor people race to work for a decent wage. Granted, inflation might raise its ugly head, but at least the economy will be booming!

Inflation might raise it's ugly head? Might? LOL, now THERE'S the understatement of the year! Heck...JQ...why not pay everyone a thousand dollars an hour and the economy would REALLY start booming. You folks live in such a fantasy world that it's amazing that you can function on a daily basis.

Is that all you've got? Lets stay reasonable. You are going off the deep end: typical right wing obstructionism!

 

[Dubya]

So I guess you are arguing that. It's not correct. but oh well, to each his own.

Its not even debatable, Kidrocks is right! When average Americans have more money in their pockets it is spent on food, bills and comfort items. Even you cannot deny that when people have and spend money more jobs are created than lost! Hell, give em 15 dollars an hour and watch the economy take off! ANother thing! Just watch the welfare rolls shrink drastically as more poor people race to work for a decent wage. Granted, inflation might raise its ugly head, but at least the economy will be booming!

Inflation might raise it's ugly head? Might? LOL, now THERE'S the understatement of the year! Heck...JQ...why not pay everyone a thousand dollars an hour and the economy would REALLY start booming. You folks live in such a fantasy world that it's amazing that you can function on a daily basis.

When you have data showing American workers are more productive and they are receiving less money for their work, what does that tell you about the system working?

 

[Wyatt earp]

I will never understand how folks get this far in life without knowing basic math. you raise the cost of labor the cost of everything else goes up. what is so hard to understand?