Power the U.S. With Solar Panels!

[myself]

The author was overly generous, no capacity factor. With a generous capacity factor of 20%, it will require 5 areas this big. That is if we assume everyone is being honest which experience tells me, they are never honest.

Or the entire state of Nevada and half of New Mexico.

Can we give up two states in the south to power our nation. And that is just the solar panels, how large with the banks of batteries be?

So we lose two states and maybe all of oklahoma for battery storage.

I think you're being overly dishonest. Do you earn a living from an energy company or some other major polluter in some way? I am reminded of something Upton Sinclair once said. He said, "it is difficult to get a man to understand something. when his salary depends on his not understanding it."

We can go solar. What the map shows is the total area of solar panels it would take to do so. But of course they don't have to all be in one place as the map shows. (Though we do have a LOT of desert areas going to waste) Having solar panels on everybody's roofs would do the trick. They and all the infrastructure should be funded and accomplished by the government on the grounds of national survival. After all, they do that sort of thing in war. Though we would still need an electric grid. Because the sun doesn't always shine everywhere. As far as storing excess energy goes, that can be done in a number of ways. Batteries, capacitors or large perfectly balanced disks spinning at very high speeds. On a large scale I have hear them talk about using excess energy to heat sodium. Which in off hours could be used to turn water into steam to turn turbines.

Also, I think you saw my thread, "Global Warming: Here's the thing." If human caused global warming wasn't real, but we did something about it anyway, the worst that could happen is that we live more equitably within our environmental system. But if human caused global warming is real and we did nothing about it, the worst that could happen is the destruction of the earth. I say it's better to be safe than sorry.

 

[elektra]

I think you're being overly dishonest. Do you earn a living from an energy company or some other major polluter in some way? I am reminded of something Upton Sinclair once said. He said, "it is difficult to get a man to understand something. when his salary depends on his not understanding it."

We can go solar. What the map shows is the total area of solar panels it would take to do so. But of course they don't have to all be in one place as the map shows. (Though we do have a LOT of desert areas going to waste) Having solar panels on everybody's roofs would do the trick. They and all the infrastructure should be funded and accomplished by the government on the grounds of national survival. After all, they do that sort of thing in war. Though we would still need an electric grid. Because the sun doesn't always shine everywhere. As far as storing excess energy goes, that can be done in a number of ways. Batteries, capacitors or large perfectly balanced disks spinning at very high speeds. On a large scale I have hear them talk about using excess energy to heat sodium. Which in off hours could be used to turn water into steam to turn turbines.

Also, I think you saw my thread, "Global Warming: Here's the thing." If human caused global warming wasn't real, but we did something about it anyway, the worst that could happen is that we live more equitably within our environmental system. But if human caused global warming is real and we did nothing about it, the worst that could happen is the destruction of the earth. I say it's better to be safe than sorry.

Desert going to waste? Yes, all those poor creatures, the coyotes, lizards, the turtles, the birds, horny toads and snakes, just there for you to crush the fucking life out of them.

And the plants, cause you dont stop to walk amongst them, they mean nothing to you as well.

You claim you are going to save the environment, you are so much stronger, more powerful than god, you will change the climate, and fuck the desert, cause you are too ignorant to appreciate its glory.

Yes, I get you, and all of you rotten scum bag DemoRATS, you will destroy the earth while claiming you saved it. Polluting the hell out of the rivers, the streams, cutting down the forests, toxic hell, and you claim you better than me and everyone else.

Your are scum, pure and simple, nothing more.

We are the democrats, we are here to save the world, step aside while we destroy the forests, destroy the deserts, destroy the rivers and lakes and the ocean, step aside while we destroy the world to save the world.

Now the earth is nice and dead, and so are we, and the democrats will sit back, take their last breath, and blame trump

 

[fncceo]

Do you earn a living from an energy company or some other major polluter in some way?

I see what you're saying ..

If you don't believe in enviro-Jesus then you must have sold your soul to the enviro-Devil! Burn, Heretic!

Got it!

 

[Flash]

Apparently at current technology, I will show you a picture of how many solar panels it would take to power the U.S. That is both day and night. (With the stored energy for nighttime) The square in yellow shows the total amount of area in solar panels it would take to do it. Argue with that you naysayers.

View attachment 538042

You dumb Moon Bat.

Solar electrical power generation is a terrible source of energy.

If you think it is wrong to be using fossil and nuclear energy then why don't you put your money where your mouth is and turn off the electricity in you house and stop driving a vehicle?

I've asked you to do that several times because you always spout all this silly shit but you won't do it.

 

[myself]

AC IS very efficient, for power transmission. Which is why our power grid generates AC, not DC

Much less so for running anything digital (which is basically everything we have now from computers to lightbulbs.

Converting from DC power generation to an AC grid is about 80% efficient. But, then you have to convert your AC from the wall to DC for your appliances, another 80% efficiency.

As for battery farms, the largest battery farm on the planet, built by Tesla Inc, in Hornsdale, Australia, has only enough capacity for 70 MW running for 10 minutes and 30 MW with a 3-hour capacity.

30 MW is only enough to power 3,000 homes or considerably fewer industrial sites.

The cost of converting our entire grid to a solar / windand building enough battery capacity to store that power (assuming there is enough Lithium on the planet to do so) would destroy our economy.

Battery technology is improving all the time. And lithium-ion batteries aren't the only kind of battery. There are a few different kinds of rechargeable batteries out there. You can even use lead acid batteries for storage. But the thing is that you don't even need batteries. There are other means of storing excess energy. Energy can be used to spin a large perfectly balanced disk. If it is going fast enough it could provide power for a long time. Another way I heard of to store excess energy is to use it to heat sodium. Though that would have to be for large scale solar farms. The heated sodium could then be used to turn water into steam. Which in turn could power turbines. Another energy storage is capacitors. So when it comes to energy storage, that really isn't a problem.

I did find out something interesting about solar panels though. Apparently their ability to produce power is tied to some degree to how much power is being drawn from them.

 

[myself]

The problem with asking that question is we don't ask the follow-up question of how do we power the US when there is no sun available? Which is something we can't currently do.

There would still need to be an energy grid. To transmit power from areas where there is a lot of sunlight to areas where it may be cloudy. And even then, I hear that they have solar panels that can produce electricity from infrared light. Which passes through clouds. Though I don't know how efficient they are.

 

[elektra]

Battery technology is improving all the time. And lithium-ion batteries aren't the only kind of battery. There are a few different kinds of rechargeable batteries out there. You can even use lead acid batteries for storage. But the thing is that you don't even need batteries. There are other means of storing excess energy. Energy can be used to spin a large perfectly balanced disk. If it is going fast enough it could provide power for a long time. Another way I heard of to store excess energy is to use it to heat sodium. Though that would have to be for large scale solar farms. The heated sodium could then be used to turn water into steam. Which in turn could power turbines. Another energy storage is capacitors. So when it comes to energy storage, that really isn't a problem.

I did find out something interesting about solar panels though. Apparently their ability to produce power is tied to some degree to how much power is being drawn from them.

you are a lousy miserable coward, running from the posts that show you are shallow and ill-fit to discuss your own beliefs.

 

[fncceo]

Battery technology is improving all the time. And lithium-ion batteries aren't the only kind of battery.

The thing is ... they aren't. The most efficient batteries today are Li-ION. Li-Po, and Li-FE-PO4... depending on the application. All batteries in use today depend on a chemical reaction and we have reached the limits of exotic combinations of ion producing elements. Not to mention, the environmental damage as Australia, Chile, and China continue to strip mine those rare elements so our iPhones will last an hour longer.

There is nothing even remotely ready for commercial development on the horizon ... let alone a technology ready to hold all the power for the USA in one go.

Solar / Battery technology is only feasible for small scale applications and any of those applications that are critical will always have a mains power backup.

 

[myself]

What does your imaginary scenario have to do with building trillions of dollars worth of
more expansive, less reliable energy sources?

Human caused global warming is a reality. Not only that, it is accelerating. Also, cost is a relative matter. Bees, ants and termites have societies of sorts. They have existed for over 100 million years. Without having to spend a penny. Another point is that solar panels are very reliable. Sunlight isn't because of cloudy days. That is why we would still need an energy grid. To transmit electricity from places where there is sunlight to areas where it may be cloudy.

 

[fncceo]

There would still need to be an energy grid.

Our current energy grid is based 100% on AC transmission. Solar and wind produce DC power most efficiently.

 

[myself]

I see what you're saying ..

If you don't believe in enviro-Jesus then you must have sold your soul to the enviro-Devil! Burn, Heretic!

Got it!

Human caused global warming isn't a cult. Its existence is based on science.

 

[myself]

You dumb Moon Bat.

Solar electrical power generation is a terrible source of energy.

If you think it is wrong to be using fossil and nuclear energy then why don't you put your money where your mouth is and turn off the electricity in you house and stop driving a vehicle?

I've asked you to do that several times because you always spout all this silly shit but you won't do it.

Go fly a ****.

 

[myself]

you are a lousy miserable coward, running from the posts that show you are shallow and ill-fit to discuss your own beliefs.

Piss off. I didn't run from anything.

 

[fncceo]

Bees, ants and termites have societies of sorts. They have existed for over 100 million years. Without having to spend a penny.

Bees and ants, not being party animals, have precious little on which to spend their money.

 

[fncceo]

Human caused global warming isn't a cult. Its existence is based on science.

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

Bees, ants and termites have societies of sorts.

They don't kill the planet by posting on USMB.

Be more like them.....stop posting, planet-killer.

 

[elektra]

Piss off. I didn't run from anything.

you are a coward and liar, now.

No response when I call you out on the destruction you have proposed.
No response when I point at the life in the desert you dont give a shit about.

Yes, you posted twice, ignoring my comments.

You can post anything but garbage, and the garbage you propose kills the earth, kills plants and animals. Industrializes the very remote wilderness that is the west.

Yes you ran, you lousy lying coward. Very easy to pontificate your high values, while maintaining your ignorance sitting on your couch enjoying all you claim destroys, while you have not the eduction to design, engineer, nor build what you propose.

 

[Flash]

Go fly a ****.

You little chickenshit Environmental Wackos bitch about fossil fuels but you little turds never live up to your convictions.

If you really believe that silly horseshit you would do the right thing and disconnect from the fossil fuel/nuclear grid.

Go get yourself a solar powered car. Have fun this winter freezing your Moon Bat ass off.

 

[fncceo]

You little chickenshit Environmental Wackos bitch about fossil fuels but you little turds never live up to your convictions.

If you really believe that silly horseshit you would do the right thing and disconnect from the fossil fuel/nuclear grid.

Go get yourself a solar powered car. Have fun this winter freezing your Moon Bat ass off.

"Let the Bastards freeze in the dark"

-- Admiral Hyman J. Rickover --- founder of the US Nuclear Navy referring to anti-nuclear environmentalists.

 

[myself]

The thing is ... they aren't. The most efficient batteries today are Li-ION. Li-Po, and Li-FE-PO4... depending on the application. All batteries in use today depend on a chemical reaction and we have reached the limits of exotic combinations of ion producing elements. Not to mention, the environmental damage as Australia, Chile, and China continue to strip mine those rare elements so our iPhones will last an hour longer.

There is nothing even remotely ready for commercial development on the horizon ... let alone a technology ready to hold all the power for the USA in on go.

Solar / Battery technology is only feasible for small scale applications and any of those applications that are critical will always have a mains power backup.

I don't know if anybody has ever built a heated sodium storage tank. For sure sodium is highly corrosive, but it is doable. You know that they tried to build a nuclear reactor once that was cooled with sodium. For some strange reason that is beyond me, apparently a uranium fueled nuclear reactor that is cooled with sodium never has to be refueled. But the reactor of course needed pumps. Which the sodium was able to make its way past. So the experiment failed. (Though I know of a way to make it work) But with sodium heat storage, that problem wouldn't exist.

We may need good rechargeable batteries for things like phones or cars. But as I said, for a large scale, we don't even need batteries. I also mentioned using capacitors. Or a large perfectly balanced disk that would store the energy by speeding up the disk. That motion could then be turned into electricity. Lastly, there is nothing wrong with having backups. There is a place in my town where they have a building that probably houses a couple train engines for that purpose. But if things are done right with solar, such things would never be needed.