President Obama says America is Exceptional, Stalinist Putin and RWs disagree..

[Lonestar_logic]

In the context of American Exceptionalism?

You really have to be a complete rockhead not to understand that.

Oh..look up context.

That might help.

No you moron, it was a direct response to you asinine comparison.

As I stated before, exceptionalism is subjective.

Of course it's "subjective".

And dependent upon criteria.

But for the most part people who like the Freedoms that the Constitutions provides it's citizens are bound to think American is an exceptional nation when compared to other nations that don't have the same Freedoms.

That's sort of a hard concept for a person like you to get.

Don't try to take it in all at once. Let it wash over you..and take some time to let it sink in.

Sometimes these things are best taken in little pieces.

Let me help.

F-R-E-E-D-O-M spells freedom.

Start with that.

Again for the retarded. Exceptionalism is subjective.

subjective [səbˈdʒɛktɪv]
adj
1. belonging to, proceeding from, or relating to the mind of the thinking subject and not the nature of the object being considered

2. of, relating to, or emanating from a person's emotions, prejudices, etc. subjective views

3. relating to the inherent nature of a person or thing; essential

4. (Philosophy) existing only as perceived and not as a thing in itself

5. (Medicine) Med (of a symptom, condition, etc.) experienced only by the patient and incapable of being recognized or studied by anyone else

6. (Linguistics / Grammar) Grammar denoting a case of nouns and pronouns, esp in languages having only two cases, that identifies the subject of a finite verb and (in formal use in English) is selected for predicate complements, as in It is I See also nominative [1]

 

[Moonglow]

MILITARY COMMISSIONS ACT

In the final hours before adjourning in 2006, Congress passed and the president signed the Military Commissions Act (MCA). In doing so, they cast aside the Constitution and the principle of habeas corpus, which protects against unlawful and indefinite imprisonment. They also gave the president absolute power to designate enemy combatants, and to set his own definitions for torture.

https://www.aclu.org/national-security/military-commissions-act-2006

 

[Lonestar_logic]

Who on the right has said America is not exceptional as the thread title claims?

No one. But do you honestly expect liberals to be honest?

 

[Samson]

http://www.nytimes.com/2013/09/12/op...yria.html?_r=0
http://www.usmessageboard.com/politics/312534-op-ed-by-vladimir-putin-for-the-american-people.html

And here's the thing. It was an American paper that carried Stalinist Putin's opinion.

No russian paper would pick up an opinion piece by an American leader if it disagreed at all with the Stalinist.

THAT..is what makes America, exceptional.

What is amusing is that you fail to recognize a knife being turned and the use of the words of your nemesis against said nemesis. I'm thinking Putin went a step too far, but as far as 'being the smartest guy in the room' and 'not letting a crisis, (especially good if you didn't cause it), go to waste," Putin is winning so far.

No American is going to like that our President is in this position or that the Russian president is chopping him, thus US, up. However, President Obama needs to stand up and lead. Something Ropey pointed out he has spent 5 years purposefully not doing by ideology-his leading from behind-has failed.

He's not "winning" shit.

Kerry put out a "solution" to the problem, which Putin, like a scared little rabbit, snapped up.

Prior to that, Pooty Poot (Bush's nickname for his friend) was saying Syria didn't violate squat. Assad nodded in agreement.

Now? With the threat of military action? They both admit to it.

That..sounds like a huge win to me.

Yeah, good thing Kerry was there instead of Hillary "Bengazi" Clinton.

 

[Edgetho]

What freedoms? The ones you'd desperately like to curtail and have agreed with the current president by vote on? Such as the suspension of habeus corbuis, 2nd amendment rights, 4th A. rights, etc?


Like those ones?

You're so full of shit, I need waders, Shallow.

It's ALWAYS the lying Right-wingers who are most full of shit who accuse others of being full of shit.

On Oct. 17, 2006, President Bush suspended the constitutionally bestowed right of writs of habeas corpus, so the POS Right, of course, accuse the Left of doing it to muddy the waters.

So now the Right will accuse Bush of being a Left Wing Democrat!
Three
Two
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Show me the document where Bush officially suspended Habeus.

Here's one for you to help you out....

Abraham Lincoln



Proclamation 94 - Suspending the Writ of Habeas Corpus
September 24, 1862

By the President of the United States of America

A Proclamation

Whereas it has become necessary to call into service not only volunteers, but also portions of the militia of the States by draft in order to suppress the insurrection existing in the United States, and disloyal persons are not adequately restrained by the ordinary processes of law from hindering this measure and from giving aid and comfort in various ways to the insurrection:

Now, therefore, be it ordered, first, that during the existing insurrection, and as a necessary measure for suppressing the same, all rebels and insurgents, their aiders and abettors, within the United States, and all persons discouraging volunteer enlistments, resisting militia draft or guilty of any disloyal practice affording aid and comfort to rebels against the authority of the United States, shall be subject to martial law and liable to trial and punishment by courts-martial or military commissions; second, that the writ of habeas corpus is suspended in respect to all persons arrested, or who are now or hereafter during the rebellion shall be imprisoned in any fort, camp, arsenal, military prison, or other place of confinement by any military authority or by the sentence of any court-martial or military commission.

In witness whereof I have hereunto set my hand and caused the seal of the United States to be affixed.

Done at the city of Washington, this 24th day of September, A.D. 1862, and of the Independence of the United States the eighty-seventh.

ABRAHAM LINCOLN

By the President:

WILLIAM H. SEWARD,


Edge:

You[re saying that Booooosh suspended Habeus? Show me the document.

 

[edthecynic]

It's ALWAYS the lying Right-wingers who are most full of shit who accuse others of being full of shit.

On Oct. 17, 2006, President Bush suspended the constitutionally bestowed right of writs of habeas corpus, so the POS Right, of course, accuse the Left of doing it to muddy the waters.

So now the Right will accuse Bush of being a Left Wing Democrat!
Three
Two
One
Go

Show me the document that suspends Habeus.

Lincoln and Grant suspended it.... Show me the official document where Bush did.

Bush and Lincoln both Suspended Habeas Corpus

Bush and Lincoln both Suspended Habeas Corpus
There were differences and similarities

On Oct. 17, 2006, President Bush signed a law suspending the right of habeas corpus to persons "determined by the United States" to be an "enemy combatant" in the Global War on Terror. President Bush's action drew severe criticism, mainly for the law's failure to specifically designate who in the United Stateswill determine who is and who is not an "enemy combatant."

"What, really, a time of shame this is..."
To President Bush's support for the law -- the Military Commissions Act of 2006 -- and its suspension of writs of habeas corpus, Jonathan Turley, professor of constitutional law at George Washington University stated, "What, really, a time of shame this is for the American system. What the Congress did and what the president signed today essentially revokes over 200 years of American principles and values."

But it was not the first time.
In fact, the Military Commissions Act of 2006 was not the first time in the history of the U.S. Constitution that its guaranteed right to writs of habeas corpus has been suspended by an action of the President of the United States. In the early days of the U.S. Civil War President Abraham Lincoln suspended writs of habeas corpus. Both presidents based their action on the dangers of war, and both presidents faced sharp criticism for carrying out what many believed to be an attack on the Constitution. There were, however, both similarities and differences between the actions of Presidents Bush and Lincoln.

...

Bush's Suspension of Habeas Corpus
President Bush suspended writs of habeas corpus through his support and signing into law of the Military Commissions Act of 2006. The bill grants the President of the United States almost unlimited authority in establishing and conducting military commissions to try persons held by the U.S., and considered to be "unlawful enemy combatants" in the Global War on Terrorism. In addition, the Act suspends the right of "unlawful enemy combatants" to present, or to have presented in their behalf, writs of habeas corpus.

Specifically, the Act states, "No court, justice, or judge shall have jurisdiction to hear or consider an application for a writ of habeas corpus filed by or on behalf of an alien detained by the United States who has been determined by the United States to have been properly detained as an enemy combatant or is awaiting such determination."

Importantly, the Military Commissions Act does not affect the hundreds of writs for habeas corpus already filed in federal civilian courts on behalf of persons held by the U.S.as unlawful enemy combatants. The Act only suspends the accused person's right to present writs of habeas corpus until after their trial before the military commission has been completed. As explained in a White House Fact Sheet on the Act, "... our courts should not be misused to hear all manner of other challenges by terrorists lawfully held as enemy combatants in wartime."

...

Differences and Similarities
Recalling that the Constitution allows for the suspension of habeas corpus when "Cases of Rebellion or Invasion the public Safety may require it," let’s consider some of the differences and similarities between the actions of Presidents Bush and Lincoln.

* Presidents Bush and Lincoln both acted to suspend habeas corpus under the powers granted to them as Commander in Chief of the U.S. Military during a time of war.

* President Lincoln acted in the face of an armed rebellion within the United States – the U.S. Civil War. President Bush’s action was a response to the Global War on Terrorism, considered to have been triggered by the Sept. 11, 2001 terrorist attacks in New York City and the Pentagon. Both presidents, however, could cite "Invasion" or the much broader term "public Safety" as constitutional triggers for their actions.

* President Lincoln suspended habeas corpus unilaterally, while President Bush’s suspension of habeas corpus was approved by Congress through the Military Commissions Act.

* President Lincoln's action suspended the habeas corpus rights of U.S. citizens. The Military Commissions Act of 2006, signed by President Bush, stipulates that the right of habeas corpus should be denied only to aliens "detained by the United States."

* Both suspensions of habeas corpus applied only to persons held in military prisons and tried before military courts. The habeas corpus rights of persons tried in civilian courts were not affected.

Certainly the suspension -- even if temporary or limited -- of any right or freedom granted by the U.S. Constitution is a momentous act that should be carried out in only in the face of dire and unanticipated of circumstances. Circumstances like civil wars and terrorist attacks are certainly both dire and unanticipated. But whether one or both, or neither warranted the suspension of the right of writs of habeas corpus remains open for debate.

You beat me by seconds.

 

[Katzndogz]

Odd that obama would suddenly find Americans so special when he specifically said he found Americans no more exceptional than anyone else.

It's after midnight in China, but I wanted to mention in real time an oratorical performance that deserves a second look. It's from Barack Obama's NATO press conference that just wrapped up, and the part worth studying is the two or three minutes that followed a question by Edward Luce of the Financial Times.

I have nothing against Luce, who wrote a very good recent book about India, but here he asked in what can only be called plummy tones whether Obama still clung to the idea of "American exceptionalism." The general phrasing of the question held that idea out at arm's length as a kind of yahoo colonial oddity.

"I believe in American exceptionalism," Obama said after one beat for thought. "Just as the Brits believe in British exceptionalism, and the Greeks in Greek exceptionalism..."

Obama on exceptionalism - James Fallows - The Atlantic

 

[NYcarbineer]

Obama and the left have railed against the concept of American Exceptionalism for 5+ years. Now all of a sudden he's a conservative?

It's crap. Obama is a befuddled post turtle. his foreign policy, weak and ineffectual from the start, is flailing around like a chicken with it's head chopped off. He doesn't know what to do or even what the teleprompter is saying anymore.

What Obama proposed doing is exactly what mainstream conservatives used to support.

As soon as it became an Obama idea, they abandoned it.

Did you know that last year both Romney and Ryan agreed with Obama 'red line' principle?

Where are they now?

 

[Samson]

Show me the document that suspends Habeus.

Lincoln and Grant suspended it.... Show me the official document where Bush did.

Bush and Lincoln both Suspended Habeas Corpus

Bush and Lincoln both Suspended Habeas Corpus
There were differences and similarities

On Oct. 17, 2006, President Bush signed a law suspending the right of habeas corpus to persons "determined by the United States" to be an "enemy combatant" in the Global War on Terror. President Bush's action drew severe criticism, mainly for the law's failure to specifically designate who in the United Stateswill determine who is and who is not an "enemy combatant."

"What, really, a time of shame this is..."
To President Bush's support for the law -- the Military Commissions Act of 2006 -- and its suspension of writs of habeas corpus, Jonathan Turley, professor of constitutional law at George Washington University stated, "What, really, a time of shame this is for the American system. What the Congress did and what the president signed today essentially revokes over 200 years of American principles and values."

But it was not the first time.
In fact, the Military Commissions Act of 2006 was not the first time in the history of the U.S. Constitution that its guaranteed right to writs of habeas corpus has been suspended by an action of the President of the United States. In the early days of the U.S. Civil War President Abraham Lincoln suspended writs of habeas corpus. Both presidents based their action on the dangers of war, and both presidents faced sharp criticism for carrying out what many believed to be an attack on the Constitution. There were, however, both similarities and differences between the actions of Presidents Bush and Lincoln.

...

Bush's Suspension of Habeas Corpus
President Bush suspended writs of habeas corpus through his support and signing into law of the Military Commissions Act of 2006. The bill grants the President of the United States almost unlimited authority in establishing and conducting military commissions to try persons held by the U.S., and considered to be "unlawful enemy combatants" in the Global War on Terrorism. In addition, the Act suspends the right of "unlawful enemy combatants" to present, or to have presented in their behalf, writs of habeas corpus.

Specifically, the Act states, "No court, justice, or judge shall have jurisdiction to hear or consider an application for a writ of habeas corpus filed by or on behalf of an alien detained by the United States who has been determined by the United States to have been properly detained as an enemy combatant or is awaiting such determination."

Importantly, the Military Commissions Act does not affect the hundreds of writs for habeas corpus already filed in federal civilian courts on behalf of persons held by the U.S.as unlawful enemy combatants. The Act only suspends the accused person's right to present writs of habeas corpus until after their trial before the military commission has been completed. As explained in a White House Fact Sheet on the Act, "... our courts should not be misused to hear all manner of other challenges by terrorists lawfully held as enemy combatants in wartime."

...

Differences and Similarities
Recalling that the Constitution allows for the suspension of habeas corpus when "Cases of Rebellion or Invasion the public Safety may require it," let’s consider some of the differences and similarities between the actions of Presidents Bush and Lincoln.

* Presidents Bush and Lincoln both acted to suspend habeas corpus under the powers granted to them as Commander in Chief of the U.S. Military during a time of war.

* President Lincoln acted in the face of an armed rebellion within the United States – the U.S. Civil War. President Bush’s action was a response to the Global War on Terrorism, considered to have been triggered by the Sept. 11, 2001 terrorist attacks in New York City and the Pentagon. Both presidents, however, could cite "Invasion" or the much broader term "public Safety" as constitutional triggers for their actions.

* President Lincoln suspended habeas corpus unilaterally, while President Bush’s suspension of habeas corpus was approved by Congress through the Military Commissions Act.

* President Lincoln's action suspended the habeas corpus rights of U.S. citizens. The Military Commissions Act of 2006, signed by President Bush, stipulates that the right of habeas corpus should be denied only to aliens "detained by the United States."

* Both suspensions of habeas corpus applied only to persons held in military prisons and tried before military courts. The habeas corpus rights of persons tried in civilian courts were not affected.

Certainly the suspension -- even if temporary or limited -- of any right or freedom granted by the U.S. Constitution is a momentous act that should be carried out in only in the face of dire and unanticipated of circumstances. Circumstances like civil wars and terrorist attacks are certainly both dire and unanticipated. But whether one or both, or neither warranted the suspension of the right of writs of habeas corpus remains open for debate.

You beat me by seconds.

I blame Annie's Hawt Avatar.

 

[Samson]

Did you know that last year both Romney and Ryan agreed with Obama 'red line' principle?

Where are they now?

No I did not know that: Where are they quoted being in agreement?

If they did, I'm guessing that "where they are" is with all the Democrats that supported legislation allowing the US to attack Iraq.

 

[Vox]

President Obama says America is Exceptiona.

Since when?

when he needs it?

oh, well, Stalin addressed soviet people "brothers and sisters" and invoked God in his speech after Germans invaded in June 22, 1941 - all after slaughtering the Russian Orthodox Church and after millions of lives lost in Gulags just before it.

Hypocrisy is an internal part of any leftist.

a press conference following a NATO meeting in April 2009 records his idea of American exceptionalism:

I believe in American exceptionalism, just as I suspect that the Brits believe in British exceptionalism and the Greeks believe in Greek exceptionalism.

 

[edthecynic]

What freedoms? The ones you'd desperately like to curtail and have agreed with the current president by vote on? Such as the suspension of habeus corbuis, 2nd amendment rights, 4th A. rights, etc?


Like those ones?

You're so full of shit, I need waders, Shallow.

It's ALWAYS the lying Right-wingers who are most full of shit who accuse others of being full of shit.

On Oct. 17, 2006, President Bush suspended the constitutionally bestowed right of writs of habeas corpus, so the POS Right, of course, accuse the Left of doing it to muddy the waters.

So now the Right will accuse Bush of being a Left Wing Democrat!
Three
Two
One
Go

Show me the document where Bush officially suspended Habeus.

Here's one for you to help you out....

Abraham Lincoln



Proclamation 94 - Suspending the Writ of Habeas Corpus
September 24, 1862

By the President of the United States of America

A Proclamation

Whereas it has become necessary to call into service not only volunteers, but also portions of the militia of the States by draft in order to suppress the insurrection existing in the United States, and disloyal persons are not adequately restrained by the ordinary processes of law from hindering this measure and from giving aid and comfort in various ways to the insurrection:

Now, therefore, be it ordered, first, that during the existing insurrection, and as a necessary measure for suppressing the same, all rebels and insurgents, their aiders and abettors, within the United States, and all persons discouraging volunteer enlistments, resisting militia draft or guilty of any disloyal practice affording aid and comfort to rebels against the authority of the United States, shall be subject to martial law and liable to trial and punishment by courts-martial or military commissions; second, that the writ of habeas corpus is suspended in respect to all persons arrested, or who are now or hereafter during the rebellion shall be imprisoned in any fort, camp, arsenal, military prison, or other place of confinement by any military authority or by the sentence of any court-martial or military commission.

In witness whereof I have hereunto set my hand and caused the seal of the United States to be affixed.

Done at the city of Washington, this 24th day of September, A.D. 1862, and of the Independence of the United States the eighty-seventh.

ABRAHAM LINCOLN

By the President:

WILLIAM H. SEWARD,


Edge:

You[re saying that Booooosh suspended Habeus? Show me the document.

The fact that so many Right-wingnuts don't even remember Bush suspending Habeas Corpus just shows how little it bothered them when BUSH did it. But Obama fails to restore Habeas Corpus as he promised, and suddenly its suspension is attributed to Obama and just as suddenly is grounds for impeachment!

 

[NYcarbineer]

If Romney were president and had done exactly what Obama did on Syria, he'd have had 80% support from the rightwing inmates at USMB.

 

[Edgetho]

It's ALWAYS the lying Right-wingers who are most full of shit who accuse others of being full of shit.

On Oct. 17, 2006, President Bush suspended the constitutionally bestowed right of writs of habeas corpus, so the POS Right, of course, accuse the Left of doing it to muddy the waters.

So now the Right will accuse Bush of being a Left Wing Democrat!
Three
Two
One
Go

Show me the document that suspends Habeus.

Lincoln and Grant suspended it.... Show me the official document where Bush did.

The Military Commissions Act of 2006

That is incorrect. All that Act did was deny ALIENS charged with being Unlawful Combatants the right to sue for Habeus. (which was later overturned anyway)

Bush NEVER suspended Habeus.

To state otherwise is just simply a lie.

Suspending Habeus is a Universal, all encompassing act imposing itself on ALL Americans.

 

[Vox]

Who on the right has said America is not exceptional as the thread title claims?

c'mon, those are the typical leftard lies - it's THE LEFT which considers America evil and definitely not exceptional, but as usual, they lie, when it is convenient for them

 

[Vox]

That is incorrect. All that Act did was deny ALIENS charged with being Unlawful Combatants the right to sue for Habeus. (which was later overturned anyway)

Bush NEVER suspended Habeus.

To state otherwise is just simply a lie.

Suspending Habeus is a Universal, all encompassing act imposing itself on ALL Americans.

Correct.

But the left had lied and lied, and lied about it in order to brainwash Americans ( the same way they did about "torture" - one would think "torture" was applied to thousands of ordinary people instead of just THREE (sic!) al Qaeda LEADERS) into this lie and they actually succeeded, unfortunately.

 

[B. Kidd]

Exceptionalism, coming from Obama is outright brazen propaganda; this coming from a Prez who sat in a pew for 20 years listenin' to a preacher preach "Goddamn America".

 

[g5000]

Show me the document where Bush officially suspended Habeus.

Here you go, goldfish:

RUMSFELD V. PADILLA

Jose Padilla is a US citizen.


And here is Bush's DOJ flack saying there is no such thing as habaes corpus in the Constitution:

SPECTER: Where you have the Constitution having an explicit provision that the writ of habeas corpus cannot be suspended except for rebellion or invasion, and you have the Supreme Court saying that habeas corpus rights apply to Guantanamo detainees — aliens in Guantanamo — after an elaborate discussion as to why, how can the statutory taking of habeas corpus — when there’s an express constitutional provision that it can’t be suspended, and an explicit Supreme Court holding that it applies to Guantanamo alien detainees.
GONZALES: A couple things, Senator. I believe that the Supreme Court case you’re referring to dealt only with the statutory right to habeas, not the constitutional right to habeas.
SPECTER: Well, you’re not right about that. It’s plain on its face they are talking about the constitutional right to habeas corpus. They talk about habeas corpus being guaranteed by the Constitution, except in cases of an invasion or rebellion. They talk about John Runningmeade and the Magna Carta and the doctrine being imbedded in the Constitution.
GONZALES: Well, sir, the fact that they may have talked about the constitutional right to habeas doesn’t mean that the decision dealt with that constitutional right to habeas.
SPECTER: When did you last read the case?
GONZALES: It has been a while, but I’ll be happy to — I will go back and look at it.
SPECTER: I looked at it yesterday and this morning again.
GONZALES: I will go back and look at it. The fact that the Constitution — again, there is no express grant of habeas in the Constitution. There is a prohibition against taking it away. But it’s never been the case, and I’m not a Supreme —
SPECTER: Now, wait a minute. Wait a minute. The constitution says you can’t take it away, except in the case of rebellion or invasion. Doesn’t that mean you have the right of habeas corpus, unless there is an invasion or rebellion?
GONZALES: I meant by that comment, the Constitution doesn’t say, “Every individual in the United States or every citizen is hereby granted or assured the right to habeas.” It doesn’t say that. It simply says the right of habeas corpus shall not be suspended except by —
SPECTER: You may be treading on your interdiction and violating common sense, Mr. Attorney General.
GONZALES: Um.

Gonzales: ‘There Is No Express Grant of Habeas Corpus In The Constitution’

 

[Katzndogz]

It seems that obama can insult America and Americans until he needs their support, then he become the First Patriot.

What a disgusting POS he is.

He went to Germany to insult the US.

His speech in Strasbourg went further than any United States president in history in criticising his own country's action while standing on foreign soil. But he sought to use the comments, which amount to a mea culpa for recent American foreign policy, as leverage to alter European views of America and secure more troops for the war in Afghanistan.

He declared that there had to be a fundamental shift on both sides of the Atlantic. "America is changing but it cannot be America alone that changes."

Addressing a crowd of some 2,000 mainly students from France and Germany, Mr Obama said: "In America, there is a failure to appreciate Europe's leading role in the world.

"Instead of celebrating your dynamic union and seeking to partner with you to meet common challenges, there have been times where America has shown arrogance and been dismissive, even derisive."
President Barack Obama: America has been 'arrogant and dismissive' towards Europe - Telegraph

Now when he needs to support of the country, he got a new script writer.

 

[PredFan]

Obama and the left have railed against the concept of American Exceptionalism for 5+ years. Now all of a sudden he's a conservative?

It's crap. Obama is a befuddled post turtle. his foreign policy, weak and ineffectual from the start, is flailing around like a chicken with it's head chopped off. He doesn't know what to do or even what the teleprompter is saying anymore.

Complete and utter bullshit.

So sayeth the sheeple.