President Obama says America is Exceptional, Stalinist Putin and RWs disagree..

[Katzndogz]

If Romney were president and had done exactly what Obama did on Syria, he'd have had 80% support from the rightwing inmates at USMB.

If Romney were president and did exactly what obama did, Romney would have been another stupid democrat. But he didn't and he isn't.

 

[Stephanie]

gawd you lefties are becoming pathetic...the whine over your Dear Leader is becoming fever pitch...


waaaaaaaaaaaaa, people disagree with the BAMBAM and all don't bow at his feet to kiss the ground he walks on

 

[edthecynic]

Show me the document that suspends Habeus.

Lincoln and Grant suspended it.... Show me the official document where Bush did.

The Military Commissions Act of 2006

That is incorrect. All that Act did was deny ALIENS charged with being Unlawful Combatants the right to sue for Habeus. (which was later overturned anyway)

Bush NEVER suspended Habeus.

To state otherwise is just simply a lie.

Suspending Habeus is a Universal, all encompassing act imposing itself on ALL Americans.

Section 2 of the act makes no explicit statement that U.S. citizens may not be designated as enemy combatants, a category of prisoner that does not receive the same level of rights as civilian or traditional military prisoners.

SEC. 2. CONSTRUCTION OF PRESIDENTIAL AUTHORITY TO ESTABLISH MILITARY COMMISSIONS.

The authority to establish military commissions under chapter 47A of title 10, United States Code, as added by section 3(a), may not be construed to alter or limit the authority of the President under the Constitution of the United States and laws of the United States to establish military commissions for areas declared to be under martial law or in occupied territories should circumstances so require.

`Sec. 948a. Definitions

`In this chapter:
`(1) UNLAWFUL ENEMY COMBATANT- (A) The term `unlawful enemy combatant' means--
`(i) a person who has engaged in hostilities or who has purposefully and materially supported hostilities against the United States or its co-belligerents who is not a lawful enemy combatant (including a person who is part of the Taliban, al Qaeda, or associated forces); or
`(ii) a person who, before, on, or after the date of the enactment of the Military Commissions Act of 2006, has been determined to be an unlawful enemy combatant by a Combatant Status Review Tribunal or another competent tribunal established under the authority of the President or the Secretary of Defense.

 

[Mac1958]

.

One end of the political spectrum voted for a candidate who repeatedly said he wanted to "fundamentally change" America.

The other end did not.

Does anyone deny this?

.

 

[Edgetho]

Show me the document where Bush officially suspended Habeus.

Here you go, goldfish:

RUMSFELD V. PADILLA

Jose Padilla is a US citizen.


And here is Bush's DOJ flack saying there is no such thing as habaes corpus in the Constitution:

SPECTER: Where you have the Constitution having an explicit provision that the writ of habeas corpus cannot be suspended except for rebellion or invasion, and you have the Supreme Court saying that habeas corpus rights apply to Guantanamo detainees — aliens in Guantanamo — after an elaborate discussion as to why, how can the statutory taking of habeas corpus — when there’s an express constitutional provision that it can’t be suspended, and an explicit Supreme Court holding that it applies to Guantanamo alien detainees.
GONZALES: A couple things, Senator. I believe that the Supreme Court case you’re referring to dealt only with the statutory right to habeas, not the constitutional right to habeas.
SPECTER: Well, you’re not right about that. It’s plain on its face they are talking about the constitutional right to habeas corpus. They talk about habeas corpus being guaranteed by the Constitution, except in cases of an invasion or rebellion. They talk about John Runningmeade and the Magna Carta and the doctrine being imbedded in the Constitution.
GONZALES: Well, sir, the fact that they may have talked about the constitutional right to habeas doesn’t mean that the decision dealt with that constitutional right to habeas.
SPECTER: When did you last read the case?
GONZALES: It has been a while, but I’ll be happy to — I will go back and look at it.
SPECTER: I looked at it yesterday and this morning again.
GONZALES: I will go back and look at it. The fact that the Constitution — again, there is no express grant of habeas in the Constitution. There is a prohibition against taking it away. But it’s never been the case, and I’m not a Supreme —
SPECTER: Now, wait a minute. Wait a minute. The constitution says you can’t take it away, except in the case of rebellion or invasion. Doesn’t that mean you have the right of habeas corpus, unless there is an invasion or rebellion?
GONZALES: I meant by that comment, the Constitution doesn’t say, “Every individual in the United States or every citizen is hereby granted or assured the right to habeas.” It doesn’t say that. It simply says the right of habeas corpus shall not be suspended except by —
SPECTER: You may be treading on your interdiction and violating common sense, Mr. Attorney General.
GONZALES: Um.

Gonzales: ‘There Is No Express Grant of Habeas Corpus In The Constitution’

This is a suspension of Habeus

Ulysses S. Grant



Proclamation 204 - Suspending the Writ of Habeas Corpus in the County of Union, South Carolina

November 10, 1871

By the President of the United States of America
A Proclamation​

Whereas by an act of Congress entitled "An act to enforce the provisions of the fourteenth amendment to the Constitution of the United States, and for other purposes," approved the 20th day of April, A.D. 1871, power is given to the President of the United States, when in his judgment the public safety shall require it, to suspend the privileges of the writ of habeas corpus in any State or part of a State whenever combinations and conspiracies exist in such State or part of a State for the purpose of depriving any portion or class of the people of such State of the rights, privileges, immunities, and protection named in the Constitution of the United States and secured by the act of Congress aforesaid; and whenever such combinations and conspiracies do so obstruct and hinder the execution of the laws of any such State and of the United States as to deprive the people aforesaid of the rights, privileges, immunities, and protection aforesaid, and do oppose and obstruct the laws of the United States and their due execution, and impede and obstruct the due course of justice under the same; and whenever such combinations shall be organized and armed and so numerous and powerful as to be able by violence either to overthrow or to set at defiance the constituted authorities of said State and of the United States within such State; and whenever by reason of said causes the conviction of such offenders and the preservation of the public peace shall become in such State or part of a State impracticable; and

Whereas such unlawful combinations and conspiracies for the purposes aforesaid are declared by the act of Congress aforesaid to be rebellion against the Government of the United States; and

Whereas by said act of Congress it is provided that before the President shall suspend the privileges of the writ of habeas corpus he shall first have made proclamation commanding such insurgents to disperse; and

Whereas on the 3d day of the present month of November the President of the United States did issue his proclamation, reciting therein, among other things, that such combinations and conspiracies did then exist in the county of Union, in the State of South Carolina, and commanding thereby all persons composing such unlawful combinations and conspiracies to disperse and retire peaceably to their homes within five days from the date thereof, and to deliver either to the marshal of the United States for the district of South Carolina, or to any of his deputies, or to any military officer of the United States within said county, all arms, ammunition, uniforms, disguises, and other means and implements used, kept, possessed, or controlled by them for carrying out the unlawful purposes for which the said combinations and conspiracies are organized; and

Whereas the insurgents engaged in such unlawful combinations and conspiracies within the county aforesaid have not dispersed and retired peaceably to their respective homes, and have not delivered to the marshal of the United States, or to any of his deputies, or to any military officer of the United States within said county, all arms, ammunition, uniforms, disguises, and other means and implements used, kept, possessed, or controlled by them for carrying out the unlawful purposes for which the combinations and conspiracies are organized, as commanded by said proclamation, but do still persist in the unlawful combinations and conspiracies aforesaid:

Now, therefore, I, Ulysses S. Grant, President of the United States of America, by virtue of the authority vested in me by the Constitution of the United States and the act of Congress aforesaid, do hereby declare that in my judgment the public safety especially requires that the privileges of the writ of habeas corpus be suspended, to the end that such rebellion may be overthrown, and do hereby suspend the privileges of the writ of habeas corpus within the county of Union, in said State of South Carolina, in respect to all persons arrested by the marshal of the United States for the said district of South Carolina, or by any of his deputies, or by any military officer of the United States, or by any soldier or citizen acting under the orders of said marshal, deputy, or such military officer within said county, charged with any violation of the act of Congress aforesaid, during the continuance of such rebellion.

In witness whereof I have hereunto set my hand and caused the seal of the United States to be affixed.

Done at the city of Washington, this 10th day of November, A.D. 1871., and of the Independence of the United States of America the ninety-sixth.

U. S. GRANT.

By the President:

HAMILTON FISH,

Secretary of State .

Edge:

Show me where Bush suspended Habeus or shut your stupid fucking blow hole.

I'm not talking about a law passed by CONGRESS.

You douche-nozzles are saying BUSH suspended Habeus.

Back it up or shut the fuck up

 

[Vox]

Show me the document where Bush officially suspended Habeus.

Here you go, goldfish:

RUMSFELD V. PADILLA

Jose Padilla is a US citizen.

except that SCOTUS ruling had nothing to do with habeas per se but the jurisdictions of the courts

Rumsfeld v. Padilla
Decision (5-4): Ruled that the U.S. District Court for the Southern District of New York lacks jurisdiction over Jose Padilla, now jailed in South Carolina, and that Padilla must refile his petition for habeas corpus in South Carolina.

 

[Vox]

Habeas corpus

Because Padilla was being detained without any criminal charges being formally made against him, he, through his lawyer, made a petition for a writ of habeas corpus to the United States District Court for the Southern District of New York, naming then Secretary of Defense Donald Rumsfeld as the respondent to this petition. The government filed a motion to dismiss the petition on the grounds that

Padilla's lawyer was not a proper "next Friend" to sign and file the petition on Padilla's behalf.
Commander Marr of the South Carolina brig, and not U.S. Secretary Rumsfeld, should have been named as the respondent to the petition.
The New York court lacked personal jurisdiction over the named respondent Secretary Rumsfeld who resides in Virginia.

The New York District Court disagreed with the government's arguments and denied its motion. However, the court declared that President Bush had constitutional and statutory authority to designate and detain American citizens as "enemy combatants." It held that Padilla had the right to challenge his "enemy combatant" designation and detention in the course of his habeas corpus petition, although immediate release was denied. Both Padilla and the government made an interlocutory appeal to the United States Court of Appeals for the Second Circuit.

On December 18, 2003, the Second Circuit declared that

Padilla's lawyer is a proper "next friend" to sign and file the habeas corpus petition on Padilla's behalf because she, as a member of the bar, had a professional duty to defend her client's interests. Further, she had a significant attorney-client relationship with Padilla and was far from being some zealous "intruder" or "uninvited meddler," as described by the government.
Secretary Rumsfeld can be named as the respondent to Padilla's habeas corpus petition, although South Carolina's Navy Commander Marr had immediate physical custody of Padilla, because there have been past cases where national-level officials have been named as respondents to such petitions.
The New York District Court had personal jurisdiction over Secretary Rumsfeld although Rumsfeld resided in Virginia and not New York because New York's "long arm statute" is applicable to Secretary Rumsfeld, who was responsible for Padilla's physical transfer from New York to South Carolina.
Despite the legal precedent set by ex parte Quirin, "the president lacked inherent constitutional authority as commander in chief to detain American citizens on American soil outside a zone of combat." The Second Circuit relied on the case of Youngstown Sheet & Tube Co. v. Sawyer, 343 U.S. 579 (1952), where the U.S. Supreme Court had ruled that President Truman, during the Korean War years, could not use his position and power as commander in chief, created under Article 2, Section 2, of the U.S. Constitution, to seize the nation's steel mills on the eve of a nationwide steelworkers strike. The extraordinary government power to curb civil rights and liberties during crisis periods, such as times of war, lies with Congress and not the president. Article 1, Section 9, Clause 2, of the U.S. Constitution grants Congress, and not the president, the power to suspend the right of habeas corpus during a period of rebellion or invasion.

Declaring that without clear congressional approval (per 18 U.S.C. § 4001(a)), President Bush cannot detain an American citizen arrested in the United States and away from a zone of combat as an "illegal enemy combatant," the court ordered that Padilla be released from the military brig within 30 days.[20] But, the court had stayed the release order pending the government's appeal to the U.S. Supreme Court.
U.S. Supreme Court

On February 20, 2004, the Supreme Court agreed to hear the government's appeal. The Supreme Court heard the case, Rumsfeld v. Padilla, in April 2004, but on June 28, 2004, the court dismissed the petition on technical grounds because

It was improperly filed in federal court in New York instead of South Carolina, where Padilla was being detained.
The Court held that the petition was incorrect in naming the secretary of defense as the respondent for habeas corpus purposes instead of the commanding officer of the naval brig who was Padilla's direct custodian.

The case was refiled in the U.S. District Court for the District of South Carolina, and on February 28, 2005, the court ordered that the government either charge or release Padilla.[21][22] On June 13, 2005, the Supreme Court denied the government's petition to have his case heard directly by the court, instead of the appeal being first heard by the U.S. Court of Appeals for the Fourth Circuit in Richmond, Virginia.

On September 9, 2005, a three-judge panel of the Fourth Circuit ruled that President Bush had the authority to detain Padilla without charges.[22] An opinion written by judge J. Michael Luttig cited the joint resolution by Congress authorizing military action following the September 11, 2001, attacks, as well as the June 2004 ruling concerning Yaser Hamdi.

 

[Sallow]

Obama and the left have railed against the concept of American Exceptionalism for 5+ years. Now all of a sudden he's a conservative?

It's crap. Obama is a befuddled post turtle. his foreign policy, weak and ineffectual from the start, is flailing around like a chicken with it's head chopped off. He doesn't know what to do or even what the teleprompter is saying anymore.

Complete and utter bullshit.

What's bullshit is why you are still allowed to lie your stupid fucking ass off on this Board....

Barack Obama's Top 10 Apologies: How the President Has Humiliated a Superpower


1. Apology to France and Europe ("America Has Shown Arrogance")

Speech by President Obama, Rhenus Sports Arena, Strasbourg, France, April 3, 2009.[1]



2. Apology to the Muslim World ("We Have Not Been Perfect")

President Obama, interview with Al Arabiya, January 27, 2009.[2]


3. Apology to the Summit of the Americas ("At Times We Sought to Dictate Our Terms")

President scumbag address to the Summit of the Americas opening ceremony, Hyatt Regency, Port of Spain, Trinidad and Tobago, April 17, 2009.[3]



4. Apology at the G-20 Summit of World Leaders ("Some Restoration of America's Standing in the World")

News conference by President Obama, ExCel Center, London, United Kingdom, April 2, 2009.[4]



5. Apology for the War on Terror ("We Went off Course")

President scumbag, speech at the National Archives, Washington, D.C., May 21, 2009.[5]



6. Apology for Guantanamo in France ("Sacrificing Your Values")

b



7. Apology before the Turkish Parliament ("Our Own Darker Periods in Our History")

Speech by President scumbag to the Turkish Parliament, Ankara, Turkey, April 6, 2009.[7]



8. Apology for U.S. Policy toward the Americas ("The United States Has Not Pursued and Sustained Engagement with Our Neighbors")

Opinion editorial by scumbag n chief: "Choosing a Better Future in the Americas," April 16, 2009



9. Apology for the Mistakes of the CIA ("Potentially We've Made Some Mistakes")

Remarks by thescumbag to CIA employees, CIA Headquarters, Langley, Virginia, April 20, 2009.

The remarks followed the controversial decision to release Office of Legal Counsel memoranda detailing CIA enhanced interrogation techniques used against terrorist suspects.

So don't be discouraged by what's happened in the last few weeks. Don't be discouraged that we have to acknowledge potentially we've made some mistakes. That's how we learn. But the fact that we are willing to acknowledge them and then move forward, that is precisely why I am proud to be President of the United States, and that's why you should be proud to be members of the CIA.

10. Apology for Guantanamo in Washington ("A Rallying Cry for Our Enemies")

scumbag in chief, speech at the National Archives, Washington, D.C., May 21, 2009

There is also no question that Guantanamo set back the moral authority that is America's strongest currency in the world. Instead of building a durable framework for the struggle against al Qaeda that drew upon our deeply held values and traditions, our government was defending positions that undermined the rule of law. In fact, part of the rationale for establishing Guantanamo in the first place was the misplaced notion that a prison there would be beyond the law--a proposition that the Supreme Court soundly rejected. Meanwhile, instead of serving as a tool to counter terrorism, Guantanamo became a symbol that helped al Qaeda recruit terrorists to its cause. Indeed, the existence of Guantanamo likely created more terrorists around the world than it ever detained.

So the record is clear: Rather than keeping us safer, the prison at Guantanamo has weakened American national security. It is a rallying cry for our enemies.

And?

That's part and parcel with American Exceptionalism.

The ability to recognize fault and make corrections.

That's what sets America apart from a conservative country like say, Saudi Arabia, who believe their right to rule comes from god and they are never wrong.

Or Conservatives in general.

Conservatives are mired in infallibility, mysticism, tradition, intolerance and a lockstep, might makes right mentality.

That's why they consistently fail.

 

[Stephanie]

he think's we are so exceptional he says, WE DIDN'T BUILD THAT

he is such a phony how anyone still fall's for anything this man says is a, loyal subject

 

[Sallow]

.

One end of the political spectrum voted for a candidate who repeatedly said he wanted to "fundamentally change" America.

The other end did not.

Does anyone deny this?

.

Nope.

And that's part of American Exceptionalism. The ability to modify and change when circumstance dictate change is necessary.

The revolution itself, was a change.

So was the civil war.

So was the new deal.

So was the civil right act.

Conservatives hate change.

The Constitution, however, has as part of it's bedrock..the ability to change.

 

[Sallow]

he think's we are so exceptional he says, WE DIDN'T BUILD THAT

he is such a phony how anyone falls for a word out his mouth is a, loyal subject

That's not what he said, Step.

He said "YOU" didn't build that.

"YOU" as in greedy executives that think they are entitled to 750% more of the profits then everyone that works at their company.

"YOU" is not "WE".

 

[edthecynic]

Edge:

Show me where Bush suspended Habeus or shut your stupid fucking blow hole.

I'm not talking about a law passed by CONGRESS.

You douche-nozzles are saying BUSH suspended Habeus.

Back it up or shut the fuck up

Again we see how Bush, the non president apparently, is rationalized as not responsible for anything he signed, only Congress is. So wouldn't that release Obama from Obamacare, or more accurately by the now established Bush standard, "Congresscare?

The rationalizations for why it is "different" for Obama should be priceless!

 

[Remodeling Maidiac]

Now this is really odd. I remember lefties whining when Rush or Palin called America exceptional. Now that Obama has said it, it's all the fad? Go figure...

 

[Edgetho]

Edge:

Show me where Bush suspended Habeus or shut your stupid fucking blow hole.

I'm not talking about a law passed by CONGRESS.

You douche-nozzles are saying BUSH suspended Habeus.

Back it up or shut the fuck up

Again we see how Bush, the non president apparently, is rationalized as not responsible for anything he signed, only Congress is. So wouldn't that release Obama from Obamacare, or more accurately by the now established Bush standard, "Congresscare?

The rationalizations for why it is "different" for Obama should be priceless!

Completely off-topic.

You said Bush suspended Habeus. He did not.

Presidents Lincoln and Grant did.

You can confess to being ignorant or you can continue to lie.

I simply don't care which.

You'll choose to continue to lie. You're a dimocrap, it's all you know how to do.

Bush did NOT suspend Habeus. Neither did the DTA or MCA

 

[Stephanie]

Now this is really odd. I remember lefties whining when Rush or Palin called America exceptional. Now that Obama has said it, it's all the fad? Go figure...

they are all twisted in knots over this man...but their two faces are shining bright...

 

[Harry Dresden]

Conservatives are sort of "Johnny come lateys" to the whole notion of the United States of America. They didn't write the Constitution and didn't have any part in the Revolution. Quite the opposite, they tried to stop it. Shortly there after they tried to split the nation with the Whiskey Rebellion and Washington had to put a stop to that. They tried it again during the Civil war. After that..they decided to work within the system to get their agenda across and have put up all sorts of Nativist and racist laws. Reagan and Bush even latched on to that agenda, somewhat, by calling the "government" (which is by the people and for the people), "the problem" while expanding the very government they said was the problem.

For Conservatives..America is exceptional because of it's power to destroy. That begins and ends it.

For Liberals? It's the free speech, justice, liberty, and fair play that sets us apart from other nations.

You have it backwards. There are more pro-constitution types in the republican party than the democrat party. The number of neo-con war loving republicans is the same number as the war loving democrats. There are actually more peace loving republicans than there are war loving republicans. Unfortunately the war hawk authoritarians are the one leading both parties. The peace loving folks of both parties get shouted down and called crazy by the authoritarians, media, and military complex. It would seem our military might is no longer for defense and is for sale in the ME and soon asia.

Actually I don't.

When I went to the protest against the Iraq war, in NYC, there were 250K people there.

Personally? I didn't see any Conservatives..not a one.

Course..I didn't check each and every person there..but I am hazarding to say..most conservatives supported killing innocent Iraqis.

not to change the subject Sallow.....but what does a Conservative look like?....you must be pretty good to be able to just pick them out of a crowd....

 

[edthecynic]

Edge:

Show me where Bush suspended Habeus or shut your stupid fucking blow hole.

I'm not talking about a law passed by CONGRESS.

You douche-nozzles are saying BUSH suspended Habeus.

Back it up or shut the fuck up

Again we see how Bush, the non president apparently, is rationalized as not responsible for anything he signed, only Congress is. So wouldn't that release Obama from Obamacare, or more accurately by the now established Bush standard, "Congresscare?

The rationalizations for why it is "different" for Obama should be priceless!

Completely off-topic.

You said Bush suspended Habeus. He did not.

Presidents Lincoln and Grant did.

You can confess to being ignorant or you can continue to lie.

I simply don't care which.

You'll choose to continue to lie. You're a dimocrap, it's all you know how to do.

Bush did NOT suspend Habeus. Neither did the DTA or MCA

Typical Right-wing Half-truth whole lie.

It was ORIGINALLY claimed that Obama suspended Habeas Corpus, and no proclamation was required for that claim. I then pointed out that Bush suspended Habeas Corpus in 2006.

Again we see the double standard. Obama can be accused of suspending Habeas Corpus without making a specific proclamation, but Bush can only be accused of suspending Habeas Corpus if he made a proclamation. It's ALWAYS different for Obama! I wonder what is so different about Obama from all the other presidents??? Hummmmm

 

[Annie]

You have it backwards. There are more pro-constitution types in the republican party than the democrat party. The number of neo-con war loving republicans is the same number as the war loving democrats. There are actually more peace loving republicans than there are war loving republicans. Unfortunately the war hawk authoritarians are the one leading both parties. The peace loving folks of both parties get shouted down and called crazy by the authoritarians, media, and military complex. It would seem our military might is no longer for defense and is for sale in the ME and soon asia.

Actually I don't.

When I went to the protest against the Iraq war, in NYC, there were 250K people there.

Personally? I didn't see any Conservatives..not a one.

Course..I didn't check each and every person there..but I am hazarding to say..most conservatives supported killing innocent Iraqis.

not to change the subject Sallow.....but what does a Conservative look like?....you must be pretty good to be able to just pick them out of a crowd....

Easy, they have fangs, black wings, and horns. Your welcome.

 

[Sallow]

You have it backwards. There are more pro-constitution types in the republican party than the democrat party. The number of neo-con war loving republicans is the same number as the war loving democrats. There are actually more peace loving republicans than there are war loving republicans. Unfortunately the war hawk authoritarians are the one leading both parties. The peace loving folks of both parties get shouted down and called crazy by the authoritarians, media, and military complex. It would seem our military might is no longer for defense and is for sale in the ME and soon asia.

Actually I don't.

When I went to the protest against the Iraq war, in NYC, there were 250K people there.

Personally? I didn't see any Conservatives..not a one.

Course..I didn't check each and every person there..but I am hazarding to say..most conservatives supported killing innocent Iraqis.

not to change the subject Sallow.....but what does a Conservative look like?....you must be pretty good to be able to just pick them out of a crowd....

You got me Harry..

 

[Harry Dresden]

Putin speaks of exceptionalism as a specific trait of America. What should we call the security council of the UN? Every one of those countries ignores UN resolutions individually, if it is in their own national interests. In short, Mr. Putin you are full of it.

Obama's appeal to America was save the children. What parent grieves differently for a child lost to chemical weapons, bullet, dictator's will or friendly fire from a cruise missile?

Obama's call to exceptionalism was only to save himself from further embarassment. Embarassment that grew out of his ego and communication style regarding those he disagrees with. He can barely speak with Congress let alone Putin. The failure here is totally his.

What should we call the security council of the UN? Every one of those countries ignores UN resolutions individually, if it is in their own national interests.

yep....and one of the reasons why the UN is a bunch of bullshit....