President Trump announces new tariffs: 25% for steel, 10% for aluminum

[Harpy Eagle]

That doesn't matter to Franco.


Like the vast majority of lefties, no matter what, he just attacks those who oppose his agenda.


Facts don't matter.

Funny how the GOP just keeps doing this kind of crap which kills regular Americans. And you dupes just keep voting for them.

The "Free Trade" policies that have made US the world's bitch on trade have has strong, constant bi-PARTISAN support for decades.

Trump didn't create the Rust Belt. The policies of the last 50 years have.


This is the US finally doing SOMETHING in response to the obvious fact that World Trade is slanted against US.

As the world retaliates against us, and our allies are driven into China's hands GREAT work you POS trump and with higher prices his tax cuts are null and void

China holds 1,2 trillion in US bonds What if trump pisses them off and they dump them??

They lose a shit load of money by selling their bonds in a market they depressed.


And we have to pay more to borrow money for our deficit spending.


What part of that makes a 300 billion a year trade deficit a good thing?

Did the Trade Deficit Cause $20 Trillion in Debt?

 

[Correll]

"The President is proposing a massive tax increase on American families. Protectionism is weak, not strong. You'd expect a policy this bad from a leftist administration, not a supposedly Republican one." - Supercilious Ben Sasse

"i don't know that President Trump should apologize to anyone for protecting American workers and certainly not to Senator Sasse" - Sarah Hogan Sanders

The Free Traders had their chance. They blew it.

We still have the highest standard of living in the world. Nothing was blown.

1. No we don't. We are number ten, by this count. Most of the ones ahead of US are in the EU trade bloc. Want to guess how many of them have a large trade surplus with US, at our expense?

2. AND that measurement is an average. It does not take into account the damage done to huge swaths of our nation over the last 50 years.

3. AND, if you look at the potential advances that should have been made by our middle class and working poor, over the last 50 years, if we had had decent policies, you see the real cost of our stupid policies.

 

[Correll]

If I remember correctly Ryanair (one of Europe's largest airlines) ordered 100s of Boeings over the years which is US government backed

Ryanair orders 100 Boeing 737s
"For Boeing, in financial difficulties for the last quarter, 85% of the deal will be guaranteed by the US government."

These types of deals have continued for years... Ryanair runs an almost all new fleet.

Now here is the problem...

View attachment 179771

That is Germany and it is high end steel US imports which it has trouble producing themselves.... Look where china is...

The Limits of 'Made in America' Economics

"The E.U. has sworn to fight back if the Trump White House goes ahead and is reportedly already preparing measures, such as levies on American whiskey, rum, orange juice, potatoes, and tomatoes."

This was just stupid...

That one deal does not change the fact of Airbus supports, nor the mindset that it reveals in their governments.


They are out to fuck US, and they have been doing so.


If their response to US refuses to be their bitch is to blow up world trade,

so much for them being the mature ones.


And what is the problem? I thought Trade Deficits didn't matter?


So what are they pissed off about?


Seems they think that trade surplus matter to them.

Your argument is equivalent to a man holding a gun to his head, and shouting, "Stop, or I will shoot!"

You didn't answer the question.


If Trade Deficits don't matter, than why are our trading partners threatening retaliation?


Seems they really want those trade surpluses they have had with US for so long.


Seems they think trade balance matters.

Never Negotiate Out of Fear; Always Force the Other Side to Negotiate Out of Fear

Besides, real Americans don't back down because of what hostile foreigners might do to stop us from fighting back. Only sissies in suitcoats and buttboys for the bosses do that.

The trouble is that we are hurting Americans.

No, the policy of the last 50 years have been literally KILLING Americans. Also figuratively. We need to reverse that.

 

[Correll]

Wilbur Ross: "I just bought this can today at a 7-Eleven ... and it priced at a $1.99. Who in the world is going to be too bothered?"

AND that's with the high price of convenience store shopping.


Good find!

 

[eddiew37]

Wilbur Ross: "I just bought this can today at a 7-Eleven ... and it priced at a $1.99. Who in the world is going to be too bothered?"

AND that's with the high price of convenience store shopping.


Good find!

I SAW A MAN
I saw a man this morning defending the tariffs by holding up a can of Campbell Soup and an aluminum Coke can. He said there is about 2-1/2 cents of steel in the soup can and about 3 cents in the Coke can, so the increase in costs is hardly worth mentioning. My immediate thought was...what does John Deere or Peter-bilt or Carrier or Maytag or even Toyota think of the tariffs. What are those big Cats 3M uses made of?

I can't even pretend to grasp higher economics, but I know that an increase of 2-1/2 cents per can for millions of cans can add up. And I can imagine the effect on Pratt & Whitney and Boeing when it comes to a 25% increase in the cost of steel and 10% in the cost of aluminum. If he tariffs rubber, maybe we better start weaving coolie carts.

 

[Correll]

Worked great back in 2002:
The protection of the steel industry in the United States had unintended consequences and perverse effects: it reduced production of steel in the United States,[how?] increased costs to users, and increased unemployment in associated industries. A study from 2003 found that around 200,000 jobs were lost as a result.[6][7]
I wonder what Trump tower is built from?

And Obama's chinese tires.

I remember the Bush’s flooded the market too with cheap Chinese tires

So, if cheap imports were bad then, are they good now?

No

Sooo, you support President Trump on this move?

No he’s starting a trade war. It’s like if trump nuked russia. You can get me to agree russia is no good but not Nuking them.

Our trade imbalance needs to be fixed but we don’t need a trade war.

There goes our tax breaks. I hear the cost of living is already going up

We are never going to be able to fix our trade balance, if the rest of the world is able to just take advantage of US with no push back.


Their national governments would be remiss in their own responsibility to their own citizens, if they did NOT take advantage of a fool with his money, ie US.

 

[Correll]

I remember the Bush’s flooded the market too with cheap Chinese tires

So, if cheap imports were bad then, are they good now?

No

Sooo, you support President Trump on this move?

No he’s starting a trade war. It’s like if trump nuked russia. You can get me to agree russia is no good but not Nuking them.

Our trade imbalance needs to be fixed but we don’t need a trade war.

There goes our tax breaks. I hear the cost of living is already going up

Trade imbalances are way overblown.

In Praise Of Trade Deficits

https://www.washingtonpost.com/opin...bd5460f0d7e_story.html?utm_term=.4dc75a55931d

Also, on a smaller scale, we all run trade deficits and surpluses every day as individuals.

I have a trade surplus with my employer. I give them a product and they give me money. So, massive trade surplus there since I have never once given my employer any of my money.

On the other hand I have a massive trade deficit with my grocery store. I give them money and they give me products. Now, I could grow and create each of those products myself if I really wanted to. But it is cheaper and easier for me to get them from the grocery store, so that is why I chose to do that. Now my grocery store runs a trade deficit with each of their supplier, they give the store products in exchange for money.

Sooo, why is everyone so upset about this action, if it doesn't matter?



Just give US what we want, if it doesn't matter.


Why retaliate to this action, with a Trade War, if it doesn't matter?

 

[eddiew37]

So, if cheap imports were bad then, are they good now?

No

Sooo, you support President Trump on this move?

No he’s starting a trade war. It’s like if trump nuked russia. You can get me to agree russia is no good but not Nuking them.

Our trade imbalance needs to be fixed but we don’t need a trade war.

There goes our tax breaks. I hear the cost of living is already going up

Trade imbalances are way overblown.

In Praise Of Trade Deficits

https://www.washingtonpost.com/opin...bd5460f0d7e_story.html?utm_term=.4dc75a55931d

Also, on a smaller scale, we all run trade deficits and surpluses every day as individuals.

I have a trade surplus with my employer. I give them a product and they give me money. So, massive trade surplus there since I have never once given my employer any of my money.

On the other hand I have a massive trade deficit with my grocery store. I give them money and they give me products. Now, I could grow and create each of those products myself if I really wanted to. But it is cheaper and easier for me to get them from the grocery store, so that is why I chose to do that. Now my grocery store runs a trade deficit with each of their supplier, they give the store products in exchange for money.

Sooo, why is everyone so upset about this action, if it doesn't matter?



Just give US what we want, if it doesn't matter.


Why retaliate to this action, with a Trade War, if it doesn't matter?

Does this matter correll?
Tariff has its impact. Electrolux just cancelled plans for a $250,000,000 expansion in TN.

 

[Correll]

he just fullfilled another campaign promise!

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news...num-imports/?tid=ss_tw&utm_term=.901513c38611

Of course these costs will get immediately passed on to consumers, which always happens whenever tariffs are raised.

not if they change sources to American manufacturers.


Easy way to avoid the tax.

No, dope. American steel still costs more. The effect will be the same.

So, a minor increase in price for the consumer, but the jobs stay here?


Sounds like a good policy to me.

But that is not what happens. There are no examples in recent history where there was a net job gain due to tariffs.

What's the history of job gains, when you just let your trade "partners" fuck you over, for decades without taking any serious steps to protect your citizens from predatory trade policies?

 

[Correll]

I think that we will not improve our trade balance until we show the rest of the world that we will not be their bitch anymore.

We bought up the rest of the world. That’s why there’s a trade imbalance. They’ve been our bitch for decades.

I live in the Rust Belt. We have not bought up the rest of the world.


THey have fucked US.

Or, your dependence on manufacturing jobs has fucked you.

Manufacturing is a part of any healthy, large economy.


Our trade "partners" have fucked up our manufacturing sector.


Trade is supposed to be mutually beneficial. If it is not, why do it?

It is hard to argue our economy is being fucked when we are in the midst of the 3rd longest period of economic expansion in the history of our country and it will soon be the 2nd longest.

Large segments of our work force have been stagnating while the rest have marched on.


The overall macro numbers hide that.


But it is hurting tens of millions of Americans specifically and the nation overall more generally.


Have you seen this number?


White Americans Are Dying Younger as Drug and Alcohol Abuse Rises


"The new federal data, drawn from all deaths recorded in the country in 2014, showed that life expectancy for whites dropped to 78.8 years in 2014 from 78.9 in 2013. Men and women had declines, but because of statistical rounding, the decline did not appear as sharp among men.

Life expectancy for women fell to 81.1 in 2014 from 81.2 in 2013. The average life span for men also fell, but not enough to sink below 76.5 years, their life expectancy in 2013."


"Life expectancy for whites had been rising for decades, but it has stagnated in recent years. It inched up in 2010 and 2011, and was flat in 2012 and 2013.

Recent research has documented surprising increases in death rates among less educated whites. Last year, a paper by Anne Case and Angus Deaton documented rising death rates among middle-age white Americans, particularly those with no more than a high school education. Other research has found rising rates among younger whites.

The pattern had puzzled demographers, but the recent analyses have pointed to suffering and anxiety among working-class whites."




These shit policies are literally killing US.

 

[Correll]

Funny how the GOP just keeps doing this kind of crap which kills regular Americans. And you dupes just keep voting for them.

The "Free Trade" policies that have made US the world's bitch on trade have has strong, constant bi-PARTISAN support for decades.

Trump didn't create the Rust Belt. The policies of the last 50 years have.


This is the US finally doing SOMETHING in response to the obvious fact that World Trade is slanted against US.

As the world retaliates against us, and our allies are driven into China's hands GREAT work you POS trump and with higher prices his tax cuts are null and void

China holds 1,2 trillion in US bonds What if trump pisses them off and they dump them??

They lose a shit load of money by selling their bonds in a market they depressed.


And we have to pay more to borrow money for our deficit spending.


What part of that makes a 300 billion a year trade deficit a good thing?

Did the Trade Deficit Cause $20 Trillion in Debt?

If workers wages had risen since the mid 60s at anything like the rates they had been rising, before Globalization and massive Third World immigration,


the Middle Class and Working "poor" would be contributing HUGELY more to tax revenues, consumer spending and thus wealth generation AND requiring vastly less services.


President Trump certainly has a tendency to shot his mouth off, but this time his point is completely valid.

 

[Wry Catcher]

And what’s the bonus for We American consumers? Will we maybe pay more for cars? The tariffs are on aluminum to. Lots of shit is going to cost more because we know American steel manufacturers will jack up prices even though the shit is made right here. So aside from union hacks east of the Mississippi, how does this bennifet me, a non union consumer of products made of steel and aluminum? And why no tariff of food products and beef from south of the border and lumber north of the border? What's the net plus for consumers of those products who will also be affected by the tariffs on steel and aluminum?

China builds a larger military and takes your life away from you.

I would probably agree with much of what you say but these Tariffs don't effect China hardly at all. It punishes our strong allies in Canada and Mexico and Brazil and S Korea. So, this stuff is aimed squarely at the wrong folks. And, if this actually happens, we will face similar tariffs from those folks and others while China is barely touched. Not to mention the inflation sure to follow.

Fuck them too. If they are our allies they would not be screwing us over now would they?

They are not screwing us over. I have a trade deficit with Walmart and Dollar Tree to name a couple. Consumers want products from other countries. Trump is screwing 144 million workers in steel using industries as well as millions of American consumers. You are in-American just like Trump.

What about the millions of jobs that have been lost in “steel production industry “ you Democratic Party mouthpiece. Retail jobs don’t replace manufacturing jobs and the income. If you think the greatest nation on earth can swap a steel mill job out with a “Welcome to Wal Mart” job and remain a global superpower then you are either naive or stupid.

In fact high tech jobs remain the future, and robots will produce the steel, as well as other sources of energy to meet the needs of the 21st Century. We no longer need to live in the past, it was never the "good olde days" that some want us to believe. Progress is not just a word, it is the ideology of the thinkers not the whiners.

Consider retail as it becomes a relic of the past, as shopping is more and more an act committed from the home computer, food, clothing, electronics and much much more will be delivered to your home by UPS, etc. and even Drones.

We have seen the future and it is ours to embrace, or we can allow the Reactionary Right to continue their efforts to return to the past.

Progressive Democrats and liberals see the future through the lens of history and the art of the invention. All this rhetoric that Communism is their goal is foolish, and a result of their desperate fear that those who echo this faux argument have been left behind.

 

[JoeB131]

What's the history of job gains, when you just let your trade "partners" fuck you over, for decades without taking any serious steps to protect your citizens from predatory trade policies?

so the thing is... our trade partners invested money in education and infrastructure.

We gave tax breaks to rich people.

And dumb crackers like you blame the darkies.

Got it.

Here's the thing, if American businesses can't compete in a fair fight, they probably deserve to go out of business.

But Trumpenfuhrer's ideas are dumber than that. By raising costs of raw materials, he made Toyotas and Nissans cheaper than Fords and Chevys.

 

[Correll]

Wilbur Ross: "I just bought this can today at a 7-Eleven ... and it priced at a $1.99. Who in the world is going to be too bothered?"

AND that's with the high price of convenience store shopping.


Good find!

I SAW A MAN
I saw a man this morning defending the tariffs by holding up a can of Campbell Soup and an aluminum Coke can. He said there is about 2-1/2 cents of steel in the soup can and about 3 cents in the Coke can, so the increase in costs is hardly worth mentioning. My immediate thought was...what does John Deere or Peter-bilt or Carrier or Maytag or even Toyota think of the tariffs. What are those big Cats 3M uses made of?

I can't even pretend to grasp higher economics, but I know that an increase of 2-1/2 cents per can for millions of cans can add up. And I can imagine the effect on Pratt & Whitney and Boeing when it comes to a 25% increase in the cost of steel and 10% in the cost of aluminum. If he tariffs rubber, maybe we better start weaving coolie carts.

The argument was that the price increase made this a bad policy.


The can shows that price increase for each purchase is very small.


The CEOs of major manufactures, could see their small increases as "large" as they look at them as absolute numbers instead of proportionally.


But maybe they should consider that they are fucking Americans, before they try to save a few cents a ton, by fucking their fellow Americans.


And if such loyalty to their fellow citizens is too old fashioned for them to hold,


maybe they need to think what their fellow citizens' response will be if they decide they are tired of being fucked.

 

[eddiew37]

Of course these costs will get immediately passed on to consumers, which always happens whenever tariffs are raised.

not if they change sources to American manufacturers.


Easy way to avoid the tax.

No, dope. American steel still costs more. The effect will be the same.

So, a minor increase in price for the consumer, but the jobs stay here?


Sounds like a good policy to me.

But that is not what happens. There are no examples in recent history where there was a net job gain due to tariffs.

What's the history of job gains, when you just let your trade "partners" fuck you over, for decades without taking any serious steps to protect your citizens from predatory trade policies?

Are we almost at full job capacity NOW ??

 

[Correll]

China builds a larger military and takes your life away from you.

I would probably agree with much of what you say but these Tariffs don't effect China hardly at all. It punishes our strong allies in Canada and Mexico and Brazil and S Korea. So, this stuff is aimed squarely at the wrong folks. And, if this actually happens, we will face similar tariffs from those folks and others while China is barely touched. Not to mention the inflation sure to follow.

Fuck them too. If they are our allies they would not be screwing us over now would they?

They are not screwing us over. I have a trade deficit with Walmart and Dollar Tree to name a couple. Consumers want products from other countries. Trump is screwing 144 million workers in steel using industries as well as millions of American consumers. You are in-American just like Trump.

What about the millions of jobs that have been lost in “steel production industry “ you Democratic Party mouthpiece. Retail jobs don’t replace manufacturing jobs and the income. If you think the greatest nation on earth can swap a steel mill job out with a “Welcome to Wal Mart” job and remain a global superpower then you are either naive or stupid.

In fact high tech jobs remain the future, and robots will produce the steel, as well as other sources of energy to meet the needs of the 21st Century. We no longer need to live in the past, it was never the "good olde days" that some want us to believe. Progress is not just a word, it is the ideology of the thinkers not the whiners.

Consider retail as it becomes a relic of the past, as shopping is more and more an act committed from the home computer, food, clothing, electronics and much much more will be delivered to your home by UPS, etc. and even Drones.

We have seen the future and it is ours to embrace, or we can allow the Reactionary Right to continue their efforts to return to the past.

Progressive Democrats and liberals see the future through the lens of history and the art of the invention. All this rhetoric that Communism is their goal is foolish, and a result of their desperate fear that those who echo this faux argument have been left behind.

Embracing the future of high tech does not require neglecting the "past".


You are arguing against considering the interests of tens of millions of Americans in the formation of national policy.


That's not the way to build a good future.

 

[eddiew37]

The "Free Trade" policies that have made US the world's bitch on trade have has strong, constant bi-PARTISAN support for decades.

Trump didn't create the Rust Belt. The policies of the last 50 years have.


This is the US finally doing SOMETHING in response to the obvious fact that World Trade is slanted against US.

As the world retaliates against us, and our allies are driven into China's hands GREAT work you POS trump and with higher prices his tax cuts are null and void

China holds 1,2 trillion in US bonds What if trump pisses them off and they dump them??

They lose a shit load of money by selling their bonds in a market they depressed.


And we have to pay more to borrow money for our deficit spending.


What part of that makes a 300 billion a year trade deficit a good thing?

Did the Trade Deficit Cause $20 Trillion in Debt?

If workers wages had risen since the mid 60s at anything like the rates they had been rising, before Globalization and massive Third World immigration,


the Middle Class and Working "poor" would be contributing HUGELY more to tax revenues, consumer spending and thus wealth generation AND requiring vastly less services.


President Trump certainly has a tendency to shot his mouth off, but this time his point is completely valid.

And outside of Ross and the steel workers union boss most everyone thinks he's dead wrong Cohen and the rest of them are no dummies

 

[eddiew37]

Wilbur Ross: "I just bought this can today at a 7-Eleven ... and it priced at a $1.99. Who in the world is going to be too bothered?"

AND that's with the high price of convenience store shopping.


Good find!

I SAW A MAN
I saw a man this morning defending the tariffs by holding up a can of Campbell Soup and an aluminum Coke can. He said there is about 2-1/2 cents of steel in the soup can and about 3 cents in the Coke can, so the increase in costs is hardly worth mentioning. My immediate thought was...what does John Deere or Peter-bilt or Carrier or Maytag or even Toyota think of the tariffs. What are those big Cats 3M uses made of?

I can't even pretend to grasp higher economics, but I know that an increase of 2-1/2 cents per can for millions of cans can add up. And I can imagine the effect on Pratt & Whitney and Boeing when it comes to a 25% increase in the cost of steel and 10% in the cost of aluminum. If he tariffs rubber, maybe we better start weaving coolie carts.

The argument was that the price increase made this a bad policy.


The can shows that price increase for each purchase is very small.


The CEOs of major manufactures, could see their small increases as "large" as they look at them as absolute numbers instead of proportionally.


But maybe they should consider that they are fucking Americans, before they try to save a few cents a ton, by fucking their fellow Americans.


And if such loyalty to their fellow citizens is too old fashioned for them to hold,


maybe they need to think what their fellow citizens' response will be if they decide they are tired of being fucked.

and what of the citizens who are getting fucked by the rise in prices ??? Taxcuts gone +++??

 

[Correll]

not if they change sources to American manufacturers.


Easy way to avoid the tax.

No, dope. American steel still costs more. The effect will be the same.

So, a minor increase in price for the consumer, but the jobs stay here?


Sounds like a good policy to me.

But that is not what happens. There are no examples in recent history where there was a net job gain due to tariffs.

What's the history of job gains, when you just let your trade "partners" fuck you over, for decades without taking any serious steps to protect your citizens from predatory trade policies?

Are we almost at full job capacity NOW ??

You look around you, at your peers and extended family, do you seriously not see a need for more and better jobs?


How many people do you know working two or more jobs, to make ends meet?

How many people do you know that are living pay check to pay check, without any security or retirement?


My mother in law was a nurse' aid, a literally shit job.


She worked in a small city about 40 minutes away. She made what amounted to a "living wage".


Her hospital was bough by a major health care complex operating out of the major city I live in, with it's large population of workers including many immigrants.


There was a very large discrepancy between the pay scales of nurse's aid between the big city, and the small.


Several dollars an hour. I'm afraid I don't recall the exact numbers.


BUT, it was enough to make a huge difference in the lives of the nurse's aids, in question.

 

[Correll]

As the world retaliates against us, and our allies are driven into China's hands GREAT work you POS trump and with higher prices his tax cuts are null and void

China holds 1,2 trillion in US bonds What if trump pisses them off and they dump them??

They lose a shit load of money by selling their bonds in a market they depressed.


And we have to pay more to borrow money for our deficit spending.


What part of that makes a 300 billion a year trade deficit a good thing?

Did the Trade Deficit Cause $20 Trillion in Debt?

If workers wages had risen since the mid 60s at anything like the rates they had been rising, before Globalization and massive Third World immigration,


the Middle Class and Working "poor" would be contributing HUGELY more to tax revenues, consumer spending and thus wealth generation AND requiring vastly less services.


President Trump certainly has a tendency to shot his mouth off, but this time his point is completely valid.

And outside of Ross and the steel workers union boss most everyone thinks he's dead wrong Cohen and the rest of them are no dummies

Except they are making the same arguments they made in the 80s, without addressing the fact that the predicted results of their policies


did not happen.



The Free Trade policy has failed. It did not deliver.


Don't repeat the same arguments without addressing that and expect to have any credibility no matter how smart you are.