President Trump announces new tariffs: 25% for steel, 10% for aluminum

[Harpy Eagle]

this is aimed only at China. it's a limited thing.

you have to do what's right and then see what the consequences are.

The sad thing about your post is that I think Trump believes this move is going after China as I do not believe he is well informed enough to know that we get very little steel from China.

Ex-Trump adviser sold $31m in shares days before president announced steel tariffs
Source: The Guardian (UK)

Carl Icahn, a former special adviser to Donald Trump, sold $31.3m of shares in a company heavily dependent on steel imports last week, shortly before Trump’s announcement of new tariffs sent its shares plummeting.

Icahn, a billionaire investor who was a major Trump supporter, started selling shares in the crane and lifting equipment supplier Manitowoc Company on 12 February, days before the commerce department first mooted plans to impose stiff tariffs on foreign steel imports...

...On Thursday Trump said he would press ahead with the commerce department’s plans to levy 25% tariffs on imports of steel and 10% on aluminium.

According to a regulatory filing Icahn was able to sell his shares for $32 to $34. On Friday morning Manitowoc’s shares had fallen 5.48% to $26.37. The fall was in line with drops seen by other companies dependent on cheap steel imports, including Boeing and Caterpillar.

Read more: Ex-Trump adviser sold $31m in shares days before president announced steel tariffs


Carl Icahn? Worked for Trump? Engaged in insider trading?

Carl Icahn is about 9000 times smarter than Trump.

8 years ago Icahn was arguing that the Trump brand was a disadvantage that longer was synonymous with business acumen, high quality

 

[Correll]

As usual GOP voters are Mindless drones...

Actually, the GOP has come out strongly against this move.

That doesn't matter to Franco.


Like the vast majority of lefties, no matter what, he just attacks those who oppose his agenda.


Facts don't matter.

Funny how the GOP just keeps doing this kind of crap which kills regular Americans. And you dupes just keep voting for them.

The "Free Trade" policies that have made US the world's bitch on trade have has strong, constant bi-PARTISAN support for decades.

Trump didn't create the Rust Belt. The policies of the last 50 years have.


This is the US finally doing SOMETHING in response to the obvious fact that World Trade is slanted against US.

As the world retaliates against us, and our allies are driven into China's hands GREAT work you POS trump and with higher prices his tax cuts are null and void

The smart move on the part of our trade "partners" is to cut off their noses to spite their face, in the short run, in the hopes that Trump is replaced by another "Free Trader"

who does not care that Globalism is utterly fucking the average American worker.

 

[Correll]

"Steel and aluminum tariffs are corporate welfare. They benefit the few through a tax imposed on all Americans." - Wacky Justin Amash

The Free Traders had their chance. They failed.

Trumps tax cuts are now null and void, he put a dagger into the hearts of the middle class the poor and ALL those using steel, cars planes etc etc etc Steel industry ALREADY benefit thru lower taxes

The middle class and the worker poor are the ones that have been fucked by decades of competing with the world in a rigged game.


If Trade Balance doesn't matter, why are our trade partners upset by this move?

 

[Correll]

As usual GOP voters are Mindless drones...

Actually, the GOP has come out strongly against this move.

That doesn't matter to Franco.


Like the vast majority of lefties, no matter what, he just attacks those who oppose his agenda.


Facts don't matter.

Funny how the GOP just keeps doing this kind of crap which kills regular Americans. And you dupes just keep voting for them.

The "Free Trade" policies that have made US the world's bitch on trade have has strong, constant bi-PARTISAN support for decades.

Trump didn't create the Rust Belt. The policies of the last 50 years have.


This is the US finally doing SOMETHING in response to the obvious fact that World Trade is slanted against US.

How much do you think the Union's had a part in the creating the Rust Belt, I am from one of those states and in 1990 one of big 3 plants had one of the biggest drug rings operating out of it and the UAW kept most of their jobs. Let's don't put the total blame on government. I have or had no problems of someone making $25.00 per hour back then or rather $37 with benefits but by god they needed to work for that in which most did not but rather bragged about working about 3 hours out of an 8 hour shift, getting high, sleeping half their shifts and loving the overtime that they didn't have to do anything. So don't blame the government. NAFTA woke up the unions and the American worker and now you cry, should have worried back then.

That is a strong argument.

Or it was.


But we addressed that. The Unions are pale shadows of what they were, and the trade deficits just keep getting higher and higher ever year.



I'm not going to be impressed by the same arguments that were made in the 80s, that have failed to deliver their intended results.


The goal of national policy is to benefit the nation's citizens.


The policy of "Free Trade" has not.


It has failed.

 

[basquebromance]

Wilbur Ross: "I just bought this can today at a 7-Eleven ... and it priced at a $1.99. Who in the world is going to be too bothered?"

 

[Correll]

Actually, the GOP has come out strongly against this move.

That doesn't matter to Franco.


Like the vast majority of lefties, no matter what, he just attacks those who oppose his agenda.


Facts don't matter.

Funny how the GOP just keeps doing this kind of crap which kills regular Americans. And you dupes just keep voting for them.

The "Free Trade" policies that have made US the world's bitch on trade have has strong, constant bi-PARTISAN support for decades.

Trump didn't create the Rust Belt. The policies of the last 50 years have.


This is the US finally doing SOMETHING in response to the obvious fact that World Trade is slanted against US.

How much do you think the Union's had a part in the creating the Rust Belt, I am from one of those states and in 1990 one of big 3 plants had one of the biggest drug rings operating out of it and the UAW kept most of their jobs. Let's don't put the total blame on government. I have or had no problems of someone making $25.00 per hour back then or rather $37 with benefits but by god they needed to work for that in which most did not but rather bragged about working about 3 hours out of an 8 hour shift, getting high, sleeping half their shifts and loving the overtime that they didn't have to do anything. So don't blame the government. NAFTA woke up the unions and the American worker and now you cry, should have worried back then.

Yeah, because CEOs who meet at banquets and barbecues aren’t in reality unions and that’s why they’re making 300 times the average professionals salaries.
Grow up.

The incompetence and the taking care of each other, that we see at the top, is very much like a bad union.


Seems to be little accountability for failure.

 

[Harpy Eagle]

Wilbur Ross: "I just bought this can today at a 7-Eleven ... and it priced at a $1.99. Who in the world is going to be too bothered?"

Like Wilbur Ross has ever been in a 7-11. Lying bastard!

 

[sealybobo]

Worked great back in 2002:
The protection of the steel industry in the United States had unintended consequences and perverse effects: it reduced production of steel in the United States,[how?] increased costs to users, and increased unemployment in associated industries. A study from 2003 found that around 200,000 jobs were lost as a result.[6][7]
I wonder what Trump tower is built from?

And Obama's chinese tires.

I remember the Bush’s flooded the market too with cheap Chinese tires

So, if cheap imports were bad then, are they good now?

No

Sooo, you support President Trump on this move?

No he’s starting a trade war. It’s like if trump nuked russia. You can get me to agree russia is no good but not Nuking them.

Our trade imbalance needs to be fixed but we don’t need a trade war.

There goes our tax breaks. I hear the cost of living is already going up

 

[undertherqadar]

Now the old schmucks wearing maga hats are cheering the reaming they are about to receive

 

[Correll]

If you are that old, then you remember.

Was this the way Free Trade was supposed to work, ie we would always lose, and the working poor and middle class would never again advance economically?

Correll, your job at Fruit of the Loom underwear is not coming back, no matter what Trump does.

Your use of the Logical Fallacy of Proof by Ridicule is noted and accepted as an tacit admission that you cannot refute what I said.

THe answer is no, this was not the way the Free Trade Policy was supposed to work.


It has failed. The reasons are debatable. The failure is not.

It is NOT ridicule. The world economy dictates that each country produce what they can produce most efficiently. It is the natural law. They make underwear in the Philippines. We make computer chips.

Except we don't. Not as much as we used to, and less every year. And why?


Are American workers stupid and lazy?


No.

"In many ways, however, the IM Flash plant is an outlier. While companies based in the United States still dominate chip sales worldwide, only about 13 percent of the world’s chip manufacturing capacity was in this country in 2015, down from 30 percent in 1990, according to government data."



"Chip makers attribute the decline to a variety of forces, including high American tax rates and the hefty subsidies offered by foreign governments for new semiconductor plants, which can cost as much as $10 billion."




Jeez, other government subsidize manufacturing to get trade surpluses.


But...


I thought trade balance didn't matter.

Corporate welfare. Intel gets millions from Oregon to set up shop in Portland.

Of course the stipulations are to hire local. But most talent comes from other states and overseas where they have skills to do the jobs that are demanded.

Good and bad in the situation.

Still auto plants are subsidies in the southern states too.

If we want to play the rules of our trade "partners" we have to massive STEP UP that type of shit.


Which, I don't really want to.


BUT the real point is EVERY job, is vulnerable to this type of unfair competition.


There is no job or manufacturing that we can create that our trade "partners" will not try to take to the benefit of their workers and economy.


Ignoring that fact is killing our workers. Literally and figuratively.

 

[Harpy Eagle]

Worked great back in 2002:
The protection of the steel industry in the United States had unintended consequences and perverse effects: it reduced production of steel in the United States,[how?] increased costs to users, and increased unemployment in associated industries. A study from 2003 found that around 200,000 jobs were lost as a result.[6][7]
I wonder what Trump tower is built from?

And Obama's chinese tires.

I remember the Bush’s flooded the market too with cheap Chinese tires

So, if cheap imports were bad then, are they good now?

No

Sooo, you support President Trump on this move?

No he’s starting a trade war. It’s like if trump nuked russia. You can get me to agree russia is no good but not Nuking them.

Our trade imbalance needs to be fixed but we don’t need a trade war.

There goes our tax breaks. I hear the cost of living is already going up

Trade imbalances are way overblown.

In Praise Of Trade Deficits

https://www.washingtonpost.com/opin...bd5460f0d7e_story.html?utm_term=.4dc75a55931d

Also, on a smaller scale, we all run trade deficits and surpluses every day as individuals.

I have a trade surplus with my employer. I give them a product and they give me money. So, massive trade surplus there since I have never once given my employer any of my money.

On the other hand I have a massive trade deficit with my grocery store. I give them money and they give me products. Now, I could grow and create each of those products myself if I really wanted to. But it is cheaper and easier for me to get them from the grocery store, so that is why I chose to do that. Now my grocery store runs a trade deficit with each of their supplier, they give the store products in exchange for money.

 

[Correll]

Your use of the Logical Fallacy of Proof by Ridicule is noted and accepted as an tacit admission that you cannot refute what I said.

THe answer is no, this was not the way the Free Trade Policy was supposed to work.


It has failed. The reasons are debatable. The failure is not.

It is NOT ridicule. The world economy dictates that each country produce what they can produce most efficiently. It is the natural law. They make underwear in the Philippines. We make computer chips.

Except we don't. Not as much as we used to, and less every year. And why?


Are American workers stupid and lazy?


No.

"In many ways, however, the IM Flash plant is an outlier. While companies based in the United States still dominate chip sales worldwide, only about 13 percent of the world’s chip manufacturing capacity was in this country in 2015, down from 30 percent in 1990, according to government data."



"Chip makers attribute the decline to a variety of forces, including high American tax rates and the hefty subsidies offered by foreign governments for new semiconductor plants, which can cost as much as $10 billion."




Jeez, other government subsidize manufacturing to get trade surpluses.


But...


I thought trade balance didn't matter.

Corporate welfare. Intel gets millions from Oregon to set up shop in Portland.

Of course the stipulations are to hire local. But most talent comes from other states and overseas where they have skills to do the jobs that are demanded.

Good and bad in the situation.

Still auto plants are subsidies in the southern states too.

Talk about auto's I bought a 2011 auto made and assembled in SK by far outperformed the same exact model made in 2014 in Alabama which I have had nothing but trouble with and the paint job is already fading and chipping. Fuel mileage on 2011 was 41 mph in town and around 46 highway, 2014 in town 32 highway 41. Workmanship of one made in SK far more superior than one made in Alabama. Parts probably made overseas and shipped in just how and who assembled it.

I was loyal to Chrysler, GM, and Ford for 45 years, until my last car, which was a Cadillac. Their Twin Star engine start burning about 1 qt of oil every 1,000 miles at 30,000 miles (This was a 2000 Eldorado). When I complained to the dealership, they told me this was normal. To prove it, they showed me the actual wording in the owner's manual saying just that. Then I met a guy who spent his career as a Master Mechanic at a Caddy dealership who told me that Caddy used that same engine for about 12 years, knowing that it had a design flaw causing this oil burn. He told me that it was a simple fix, but that they chose not to spend the money to recast the dies for the engine block. In addition to this, all the oil seals in the engine and transmission had to be replaced at 50,000 miles, and the A/C unit had to be overhauled three times before 87,000 miles.

Now, I drive a Honda.

I just want to note, this is not the workers fault, but lazy and corrupt management.

 

[Correll]

he just fullfilled another campaign promise!

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news...num-imports/?tid=ss_tw&utm_term=.901513c38611

Of course these costs will get immediately passed on to consumers, which always happens whenever tariffs are raised.

not if they change sources to American manufacturers.


Easy way to avoid the tax.

No, dope. American steel still costs more. The effect will be the same.

So, a minor increase in price for the consumer, but the jobs stay here?


Sounds like a good policy to me.

 

[Correll]

I honestly think that Trump is having a nervous breakdown.

He's more concerned with keeping his bull shit promises than the effect it will have on other Americans. He is as craven as they come.
`

You ever visit the Rust Belt?

 

[Harpy Eagle]

he just fullfilled another campaign promise!

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news...num-imports/?tid=ss_tw&utm_term=.901513c38611

Of course these costs will get immediately passed on to consumers, which always happens whenever tariffs are raised.

not if they change sources to American manufacturers.


Easy way to avoid the tax.

No, dope. American steel still costs more. The effect will be the same.

So, a minor increase in price for the consumer, but the jobs stay here?


Sounds like a good policy to me.

But that is not what happens. There are no examples in recent history where there was a net job gain due to tariffs.

 

[Correll]

Jobs are better to have than resources.

You think we will sell a lot of cars when we are paying artificially higher steel prices? Last steel tariffs we lost jobs.

I think that we will not improve our trade balance until we show the rest of the world that we will not be their bitch anymore.

We bought up the rest of the world. That’s why there’s a trade imbalance. They’ve been our bitch for decades.

I live in the Rust Belt. We have not bought up the rest of the world.


THey have fucked US.

Or, your dependence on manufacturing jobs has fucked you.

Manufacturing is a part of any healthy, large economy.


Our trade "partners" have fucked up our manufacturing sector.


Trade is supposed to be mutually beneficial. If it is not, why do it?

 

[Correll]

That's not why the EU subsidized Airbus, to the loss of thousands of very high tech, high paying jobs.


They couldn't compete, so they cheated and benefited their workers and their economies at the expense of ours.


I want those jobs back for America and Americans.


This was not the way Free Trade was supposed to work.

If I remember correctly Ryanair (one of Europe's largest airlines) ordered 100s of Boeings over the years which is US government backed

Ryanair orders 100 Boeing 737s
"For Boeing, in financial difficulties for the last quarter, 85% of the deal will be guaranteed by the US government."

These types of deals have continued for years... Ryanair runs an almost all new fleet.

Now here is the problem...

View attachment 179771

That is Germany and it is high end steel US imports which it has trouble producing themselves.... Look where china is...

The Limits of 'Made in America' Economics

"The E.U. has sworn to fight back if the Trump White House goes ahead and is reportedly already preparing measures, such as levies on American whiskey, rum, orange juice, potatoes, and tomatoes."

This was just stupid...

That one deal does not change the fact of Airbus supports, nor the mindset that it reveals in their governments.


They are out to fuck US, and they have been doing so.


If their response to US refuses to be their bitch is to blow up world trade,

so much for them being the mature ones.


And what is the problem? I thought Trade Deficits didn't matter?


So what are they pissed off about?


Seems they think that trade surplus matter to them.

Your argument is equivalent to a man holding a gun to his head, and shouting, "Stop, or I will shoot!"

You didn't answer the question.


If Trade Deficits don't matter, than why are our trading partners threatening retaliation?


Seems they really want those trade surpluses they have had with US for so long.


Seems they think trade balance matters.

Never Negotiate Out of Fear; Always Force the Other Side to Negotiate Out of Fear

Besides, real Americans don't back down because of what hostile foreigners might do to stop us from fighting back. Only sissies in suitcoats and buttboys for the bosses do that.

You know that those who have massive trade surpluses with US, are terrified of losing them.


This could just be a negotiating first step by President Trump.


Either way works for me. The Status Quo is killing US.

 

[Harpy Eagle]

You think we will sell a lot of cars when we are paying artificially higher steel prices? Last steel tariffs we lost jobs.

I think that we will not improve our trade balance until we show the rest of the world that we will not be their bitch anymore.

We bought up the rest of the world. That’s why there’s a trade imbalance. They’ve been our bitch for decades.

I live in the Rust Belt. We have not bought up the rest of the world.


THey have fucked US.

Or, your dependence on manufacturing jobs has fucked you.

Manufacturing is a part of any healthy, large economy.


Our trade "partners" have fucked up our manufacturing sector.


Trade is supposed to be mutually beneficial. If it is not, why do it?

It is hard to argue our economy is being fucked when we are in the midst of the 3rd longest period of economic expansion in the history of our country and it will soon be the 2nd longest.

 

[Correll]

That's not why the EU subsidized Airbus, to the loss of thousands of very high tech, high paying jobs.


They couldn't compete, so they cheated and benefited their workers and their economies at the expense of ours.


I want those jobs back for America and Americans.


This was not the way Free Trade was supposed to work.

If I remember correctly Ryanair (one of Europe's largest airlines) ordered 100s of Boeings over the years which is US government backed

Ryanair orders 100 Boeing 737s
"For Boeing, in financial difficulties for the last quarter, 85% of the deal will be guaranteed by the US government."

These types of deals have continued for years... Ryanair runs an almost all new fleet.

Now here is the problem...

View attachment 179771

That is Germany and it is high end steel US imports which it has trouble producing themselves.... Look where china is...

The Limits of 'Made in America' Economics

"The E.U. has sworn to fight back if the Trump White House goes ahead and is reportedly already preparing measures, such as levies on American whiskey, rum, orange juice, potatoes, and tomatoes."

This was just stupid...

That one deal does not change the fact of Airbus supports, nor the mindset that it reveals in their governments.


They are out to fuck US, and they have been doing so.


If their response to US refuses to be their bitch is to blow up world trade,

so much for them being the mature ones.


And what is the problem? I thought Trade Deficits didn't matter?


So what are they pissed off about?


Seems they think that trade surplus matter to them.

Free trade has made us one of the most prosperous countries in the world. In the 1980s the economy grew at 5%. Trade wars are not good for business or Americans. Why are you so eager to punish Americans?

Boeing is one of the largest recipients of government subsidies so they are not pure.

The idea that our trade deficits are a result of natural market forces is absurd.

The Invisible Hand is the one picking our pockets.

I could maybe see that with low wage nations, such as China. MAYBE.


But that does not explain our massive trade deficit with freaking GERMANY.

They aren't winning because they pay their workers slave wages.



The fix is in.

 

[Correll]

Actually, the GOP has come out strongly against this move.

That doesn't matter to Franco.


Like the vast majority of lefties, no matter what, he just attacks those who oppose his agenda.


Facts don't matter.

Funny how the GOP just keeps doing this kind of crap which kills regular Americans. And you dupes just keep voting for them.

The "Free Trade" policies that have made US the world's bitch on trade have has strong, constant bi-PARTISAN support for decades.

Trump didn't create the Rust Belt. The policies of the last 50 years have.


This is the US finally doing SOMETHING in response to the obvious fact that World Trade is slanted against US.

As the world retaliates against us, and our allies are driven into China's hands GREAT work you POS trump and with higher prices his tax cuts are null and void

China holds 1,2 trillion in US bonds What if trump pisses them off and they dump them??

They lose a shit load of money by selling their bonds in a market they depressed.


And we have to pay more to borrow money for our deficit spending.


What part of that makes a 300 billion a year trade deficit a good thing?