President Trump announces new tariffs: 25% for steel, 10% for aluminum

[BluesLegend]

President Trump snarls and cheating U.S. trade partners shit themselves good job president Trump

 

[Correll]

Free Trade was supposed to make American manufacturing more competitive. The workers who lost jobs were supposed to be retrained and find new high tech jobs.


That's not a straw man, that was the argument for the policy.


Is that what happened?

Single cause fallacy. The dynamics of the world aren't that simplistic. I'm sorry you miss the fifties, but the world has changed.

So splain it, Complex Man. Explain why we are supposed to ignore the fact that the promised results of a policy did not occur.

It's sad how the US became the most powerful country in the history of the world by embracing change, and now we're being destroyed by fear by people who think you can resist change.

Sorry pal. You the one not adjusting his ideology to new information. YOu're the one that wants to ride a failed policy right down to Third World Status.

My career is in management and management consulting. Americans have the most kick ass business leadership in the world. Our greatest enemy for American success isn't foreign competition. It's people like you who vote in politicians manipulating your fear.

I believe it looks that way in your office and the offices of your peers.


You take a ride down Main Street in any Rust Belt town, and it will look a lot different.


That's tens of millions of people that have been very poorly served by policy for the last 50 years.

How ironic is it that your fear of failure actually leads to failure?

It would be ironic, if it happens.


First problem with that, is that what we have now, is not success.


Did you hear about how Whites in this country are actually experiencing a DECLINE in life expectancy?


That's a pretty strong indicator of FAILURE.

Begging the question. You haven't established that free trade caused any harm. If you are poor in the US, you're middle class in the world. If you're middle class in the US, you're rich in the world. We're one of the richest countries on the planet.

You haven't established there's a problem

Here is the problem, long term wage stagnation.

Wage Stagnation in Nine Charts

"The figure shows that in the three decades following World War II, hourly compensation of the vast majority of workers rose 91 percent, roughly in line with productivity growth of 97 percent. But for most of the past generation (except for a brief period in the late 1990s), pay for the vast majority lagged further and further behind overall productivity. From 1973 to 2013, hourly compensation of a typical (production/nonsupervisory) worker rose just 9 percent while productivity increased 74 percent. This breakdown of pay growth has been especially evident in the last decade, affecting both college- and non-college-educated workers as well as blue- and white-collar workers. This means that workers have been producing far more than they receive in their paychecks and benefit packages from their employers."

Note the interesting correlation between de coupling rising productivity and wages with the switch to trade deficits.

That couldn't be because labor is cheaper overseas, could it? Of course not.

Cheaper goods benefits consumers and the economy overall. Government providing jobs is a terrible idea

1. That is obviously part of it, though it does not explain the trade deficits with the EU.


2. And regardless, how does saying "cheap labor" change the fact that it has harmed the American worker?


3. HOw is generations of wage stagnation a benefit to US consumers?


4 False choice. THe choice is not between Tariffs and some Ideal of Free Trade, but between two philosophies of Trade POlicy.

 

[usmbguest5318]

retaliatory against Europe, Canada, and the rest of the German Axis for the harshly imposed VAT

VAT is not a tariff. It is an ad valorem tax.

 

[usmbguest5318]

Illegal aliens have been sabotaging our domestic steel, aluminum and other manufacturing facilities and general capabilities.

Credible documentation of this, please?

 

[TheOldSchool]

Illegal aliens have been sabotaging our domestic steel, aluminum and other manufacturing facilities and general capabilities.

Credible documentation of this, please?

I think it's Trumpspeak. Where you just say whatever crazy thing you want and it'll be backed up by legions of rubes that could care less if it's true or not.

 

[yiostheoy]

Illegal aliens have been sabotaging our domestic steel, aluminum and other manufacturing facilities and general capabilities.

Credible documentation of this, please?

I think it's Trumpspeak. Where you just say whatever crazy thing you want and it'll be backed up by legions of rubes that could care less if it's true or not.

You are probably right.

 

[yiostheoy]

Trump is slapping tariffs on imported steel and aluminum.

There is a lot more to this than meets the eye.

1. Illegal aliens have been sabotaging our domestic steel, aluminum and other manufacturing facilities and general capabilities.
2. Germany and the European Union, who are supposed to be U.S. "allies" are once again engaging in the German trifecta of domestic industrialism, trade protectionism, and mercantilism, running a pernicious trade surplus at the expense of the U.S., Greece, Spain, Ukraine, and other so-called "profligate nations" -- I actually heard Jean-Claude Juncker use that phrase on international television.
3. The U.S. press has been subtly mocking the recently formed 21st-century German//EU//Canadian Axis as "the nations."

The economy in the U.S. has been in horrible shape since 2008 -- a Second Great Depression is no exaggeration -- and all reports of improvement in the economy so far appear to be lies.

No. Tariffs do not improve the economy. They are punitive and, on the part of the U.S., retaliatory against Europe, Canada, and the rest of the German Axis for the harshly imposed VAT and other tariffs already long since placed on goods exported from the U.S.

This is serious business. Punitive tariffs are the point where a trade war tends to escalate to military conflict. World War Three. Except that the Germans already have nukes this time around.

Russia? Russia's economy is not well enough to run any significant trade surplus against the U.S., and in fact Russia is pretty much in the same boat as the U.S. on this one, caught between the "thieves in law" and the refusal of the European Union to conduct trade.

Okay, so what has Germany done in regards to steel that justifies the US putting tariffs on steel from the EU?

You didn't source anything. You're just saying stuff.

Fokk Germany.

Fokk the EU.

Fokk Asia.

 

[kaz]

Single cause fallacy. The dynamics of the world aren't that simplistic. I'm sorry you miss the fifties, but the world has changed.

So splain it, Complex Man. Explain why we are supposed to ignore the fact that the promised results of a policy did not occur.

It's sad how the US became the most powerful country in the history of the world by embracing change, and now we're being destroyed by fear by people who think you can resist change.

Sorry pal. You the one not adjusting his ideology to new information. YOu're the one that wants to ride a failed policy right down to Third World Status.

My career is in management and management consulting. Americans have the most kick ass business leadership in the world. Our greatest enemy for American success isn't foreign competition. It's people like you who vote in politicians manipulating your fear.

I believe it looks that way in your office and the offices of your peers.


You take a ride down Main Street in any Rust Belt town, and it will look a lot different.


That's tens of millions of people that have been very poorly served by policy for the last 50 years.

How ironic is it that your fear of failure actually leads to failure?

It would be ironic, if it happens.


First problem with that, is that what we have now, is not success.


Did you hear about how Whites in this country are actually experiencing a DECLINE in life expectancy?


That's a pretty strong indicator of FAILURE.

Begging the question. You haven't established that free trade caused any harm. If you are poor in the US, you're middle class in the world. If you're middle class in the US, you're rich in the world. We're one of the richest countries on the planet.

You haven't established there's a problem

Here is the problem, long term wage stagnation.

Wage Stagnation in Nine Charts

"The figure shows that in the three decades following World War II, hourly compensation of the vast majority of workers rose 91 percent, roughly in line with productivity growth of 97 percent. But for most of the past generation (except for a brief period in the late 1990s), pay for the vast majority lagged further and further behind overall productivity. From 1973 to 2013, hourly compensation of a typical (production/nonsupervisory) worker rose just 9 percent while productivity increased 74 percent. This breakdown of pay growth has been especially evident in the last decade, affecting both college- and non-college-educated workers as well as blue- and white-collar workers. This means that workers have been producing far more than they receive in their paychecks and benefit packages from their employers."

Note the interesting correlation between de coupling rising productivity and wages with the switch to trade deficits.

That couldn't be because labor is cheaper overseas, could it? Of course not.

Cheaper goods benefits consumers and the economy overall. Government providing jobs is a terrible idea

1. That is obviously part of it, though it does not explain the trade deficits with the EU.


2. And regardless, how does saying "cheap labor" change the fact that it has harmed the American worker?


3. HOw is generations of wage stagnation a benefit to US consumers?


4 False choice. THe choice is not between Tariffs and some Ideal of Free Trade, but between two philosophies of Trade POlicy.

If you want more manufacturing onshore, advocate we remove all the restrictions and taxes government is inflicting on business for hiring employees here.

Government has done nothing but punish companies and your solution is to punish them more. That man's drunk, give him a drink!

 

[Correll]

So splain it, Complex Man. Explain why we are supposed to ignore the fact that the promised results of a policy did not occur.



Sorry pal. You the one not adjusting his ideology to new information. YOu're the one that wants to ride a failed policy right down to Third World Status.



I believe it looks that way in your office and the offices of your peers.


You take a ride down Main Street in any Rust Belt town, and it will look a lot different.


That's tens of millions of people that have been very poorly served by policy for the last 50 years.







It would be ironic, if it happens.


First problem with that, is that what we have now, is not success.


Did you hear about how Whites in this country are actually experiencing a DECLINE in life expectancy?


That's a pretty strong indicator of FAILURE.

Begging the question. You haven't established that free trade caused any harm. If you are poor in the US, you're middle class in the world. If you're middle class in the US, you're rich in the world. We're one of the richest countries on the planet.

You haven't established there's a problem

Here is the problem, long term wage stagnation.

Wage Stagnation in Nine Charts

"The figure shows that in the three decades following World War II, hourly compensation of the vast majority of workers rose 91 percent, roughly in line with productivity growth of 97 percent. But for most of the past generation (except for a brief period in the late 1990s), pay for the vast majority lagged further and further behind overall productivity. From 1973 to 2013, hourly compensation of a typical (production/nonsupervisory) worker rose just 9 percent while productivity increased 74 percent. This breakdown of pay growth has been especially evident in the last decade, affecting both college- and non-college-educated workers as well as blue- and white-collar workers. This means that workers have been producing far more than they receive in their paychecks and benefit packages from their employers."

Note the interesting correlation between de coupling rising productivity and wages with the switch to trade deficits.

That couldn't be because labor is cheaper overseas, could it? Of course not.

Cheaper goods benefits consumers and the economy overall. Government providing jobs is a terrible idea

1. That is obviously part of it, though it does not explain the trade deficits with the EU.


2. And regardless, how does saying "cheap labor" change the fact that it has harmed the American worker?


3. HOw is generations of wage stagnation a benefit to US consumers?


4 False choice. THe choice is not between Tariffs and some Ideal of Free Trade, but between two philosophies of Trade POlicy.

If you want more manufacturing onshore, advocate we remove all the restrictions and taxes government is inflicting on business for hiring employees here.

Government has done nothing but punish companies and your solution is to punish them more. That man's drunk, give him a drink!

1. Not all of those restrictions are ones I want to see removed. Safety regulations on big rigs on the roads for one example.

2. Taxes? Sure, might be a contributing factor. But just addressing that won't do it, and you know it.

3. My point about the correlation between wage stagnation and trade deficits stand.

4. My point about our trade deficit with the EU stands.

5. My point about "cheap labor" not changing the fact of wage stagnation stands.

6. My question of how "wage stagnation of generations" is a benefit to US consumers, stands.

 

[usmbguest5318]

Illegal aliens have been sabotaging our domestic steel, aluminum and other manufacturing facilities and general capabilities.

Credible documentation of this, please?

I think it's Trumpspeak. Where you just say whatever crazy thing you want and it'll be backed up by legions of rubes that could care less if it's true or not.

Oh, well, now that you mention it, here, that is definitely possible. I guess I was trying to give the member the benefit of the doubt that the claim might actually be legit. But you're quite right in recognizing that the claim could very probably be pure bunkum.

 

[The Sage of Main Street]

Trustfundie Treehuggers

The gas and oil industry finances the propaganda against its competitors, coal and forest products. That includes their unwittingly loyal sons, the GreenHeads. But this is heresy to those who believe the plutocratic puppet show presents reality.

 

[basquebromance]

"The European Union, wonderful countries who treat the U.S. very badly on trade, are complaining about the tariffs on Steel & Aluminum. If they drop their horrific barriers & tariffs on U.S. products going in, we will likewise drop ours. Big Deficit. If not, we Tax Cars etc. FAIR!" - President Trump

 

[Indeependent]

It does.
I'm still waiting for you to post something that wasn't copied from a soap opera.

We're still waiting for you to reclaim your manhood when you surrendered it to Trump.

Huh?
You vote "D", I vote platform.
Basically, I vote for Sanders' Platform.

So you voted in the democratic primaries for Sanders?
Ha!
Are you bipolar?

Are you retarded...I've only stated this a few dozen times, moron...
Sanders and Trump had the same platform.
Voting for Trump was the same as voting for Sanders.

That may be but Sanders actually meant what he said. And he didn't have a blackmailer like Putin to make him change a plank in that platform and scare him away from doing the right thing on sanctions.

Sanders had Super Delegates sweep his ass out of the way for Hillary, the Globalist.
Now have some camomile tea.

 

[Indeependent]

We're still waiting for you to reclaim your manhood when you surrendered it to Trump.

Huh?
You vote "D", I vote platform.
Basically, I vote for Sanders' Platform.

So you voted in the democratic primaries for Sanders?
Ha!
Are you bipolar?

Are you retarded...I've only stated this a few dozen times, moron...
Sanders and Trump had the same platform.
Voting for Trump was the same as voting for Sanders.

That may be but Sanders actually meant what he said. And he didn't have a blackmailer like Putin to make him change a plank in that platform and scare him away from doing the right thing on sanctions.

Don't forget that Sanders is actually a statesman and wouldn't make the US the current joke that Trump has.

Apparently, the entire Democratic Party disagrees with you.
I know, I know, you know dipshit about his relationship with the Democratic Party and why Sanders became an Independent.
But what can I expect from a knee jerk, cock sucking ideologue such as yourself?

 

[Indeependent]

About fucking time.

You must be one of them there russians everyone is talking about because I don't think many American's with an IQ over 50 wants to pay higher prices on just about everything they purchase in the next few months not to mention the slow down in building that will result. Slow downs and higher prices eventually = loss of jobs. But who cares, right trumpie?

I take it you missed the last 30 years that did not go as the Free Traders promised?

Flagrant confirmation bias. This is also a single cause fallacy.

A twofer, nice!

The stagnation of Middle Class and Working poor wages is no confirmation bias.

The Free Traders made promises. They did not occur. There was a lot of time for that happen.


The policy has failed. Time for a new policy.

But, when you just pull policies out of your ass on the fly without even consulting people with strong backgrounds in econ that are charged with making recommendations, that's wrong. Contrary to popular opinion of the 38% he's almost never the smartest guy in the room.

Because we've all seen the perfect results of wll thought out policies since Reagan...
Feeling stupid yet?
I got news for you cupcake, Trump will reverse anything that doesn't work, because, unlike the rest of the bought and paid off political elite, Trump doesn't give a shit about keeping the status quo.

 

[Wickerthing]

You must be one of them there russians everyone is talking about because I don't think many American's with an IQ over 50 wants to pay higher prices on just about everything they purchase in the next few months not to mention the slow down in building that will result. Slow downs and higher prices eventually = loss of jobs. But who cares, right trumpie?

I take it you missed the last 30 years that did not go as the Free Traders promised?

Flagrant confirmation bias. This is also a single cause fallacy.

A twofer, nice!

The stagnation of Middle Class and Working poor wages is no confirmation bias.

The Free Traders made promises. They did not occur. There was a lot of time for that happen.


The policy has failed. Time for a new policy.

But, when you just pull policies out of your ass on the fly without even consulting people with strong backgrounds in econ that are charged with making recommendations, that's wrong. Contrary to popular opinion of the 38% he's almost never the smartest guy in the room.

Because we've all seen the perfect results of wll thought out policies since Reagan...
Feeling stupid yet?
I got news for you cupcake, Trump will reverse anything that doesn't work, because, unlike the rest of the bought and paid off political elite, Trump doesn't give a shit about keeping the status quo.

If I'm a cupcake then why don't you bite me? Status quo? He cares about two things and two things only Money and perverted sex acts with the golden showers crowd. Maybe he actually thinks that stuff is gold. He has set himself and his family up as a cottage industry right under the noses of his followers. He's convinced lots of very naive folks that he cares about them. The middle class and working poor are beneath him and all the bullshit promises are just that. "You'll have terrific healthcare at a tiny fraction of blah blah blah" It'll all be so easy! "You'll be tired of winning. "Only the best people!"

And as you fools sat there all glassy-eyed and hopeful he was already planning how to get away with raping the country. Disappearing Inauguration loot, marketing Ivanka's line of goods, Peddling influence to anyone with the price of admission. Selling real estate to Russian spies and laundering Putin's dirty money through real estate deals that make no logical sense. Stiffing wounded warriors out of their money, stiffing hopeful students out of their life blood and stiffing every contractor and lawyer he ever met. Appointing Cabinet chiefs hand picked by Putin, Appointing Cabinet Chiefs with no skills and an almost equal thirst for wealth. Handing off the most security intensive tasks to family with no clearances.

Yeah, he doesn't care much for the way things were. That's a fact. Just like his famous alternative facts, he's creating an alternative reality. And now he's gonna meet with a nuclear-armed childish madman to talk peace? Talk about kindred spirits. It's been a wild ride so far and I only hope we can all get off safely when that ride is stopped by Mueller and his team.

We haven't seen anything yet. .

 

[Indeependent]

I take it you missed the last 30 years that did not go as the Free Traders promised?

Flagrant confirmation bias. This is also a single cause fallacy.

A twofer, nice!

The stagnation of Middle Class and Working poor wages is no confirmation bias.

The Free Traders made promises. They did not occur. There was a lot of time for that happen.


The policy has failed. Time for a new policy.

But, when you just pull policies out of your ass on the fly without even consulting people with strong backgrounds in econ that are charged with making recommendations, that's wrong. Contrary to popular opinion of the 38% he's almost never the smartest guy in the room.

Because we've all seen the perfect results of wll thought out policies since Reagan...
Feeling stupid yet?
I got news for you cupcake, Trump will reverse anything that doesn't work, because, unlike the rest of the bought and paid off political elite, Trump doesn't give a shit about keeping the status quo.

If I'm a cupcake then why don't you bite me? Status quo? He cares about two things and two things only Money and perverted sex acts with the golden showers crowd. Maybe he actually thinks that stuff is gold. He has set himself and his family up as a cottage industry right under the noses of his followers. He's convinced lots of very naive folks that he cares about them. The middle class and working poor are beneath him and all the bullshit promises are just that. "You'll have terrific healthcare at a tiny fraction of blah blah blah" It'll all be so easy! "You'll be tired of winning. "Only the best people!"

And as you fools sat there all glassy-eyed and hopeful he was already planning how to get away with raping the country. Disappearing Inauguration loot, marketing Ivanka's line of goods, Peddling influence to anyone with the price of admission. Selling real estate to Russian spies and laundering Putin's dirty money through real estate deals that make no logical sense. Stiffing wounded warriors out of their money, stiffing hopeful students out of their life blood and stiffing every contractor and lawyer he ever met. Appointing Cabinet chiefs hand picked by Putin, Appointing Cabinet Chiefs with no skills and an almost equal thirst for wealth. Handing off the most security intensive tasks to family with no clearances.

Yeah, he doesn't care much for the way things were. That's a fact. Just like his famous alternative facts, he's creating an alternative reality. And now he's gonna meet with a nuclear-armed childish madman to talk peace? Talk about kindred spirits. It's been a wild ride so far and I only hope we can all get off safely when that ride is stopped by Mueller and his team.

We haven't seen anything yet. .

Which is why he's addressing his platform and not kissing Democratic or Republican ass.
Either you are mentally disturbed or you really don't know the Democratic or Republican platforms.

 

[Correll]

Flagrant confirmation bias. This is also a single cause fallacy.

A twofer, nice!

The stagnation of Middle Class and Working poor wages is no confirmation bias.

The Free Traders made promises. They did not occur. There was a lot of time for that happen.


The policy has failed. Time for a new policy.

But, when you just pull policies out of your ass on the fly without even consulting people with strong backgrounds in econ that are charged with making recommendations, that's wrong. Contrary to popular opinion of the 38% he's almost never the smartest guy in the room.

Because we've all seen the perfect results of wll thought out policies since Reagan...
Feeling stupid yet?
I got news for you cupcake, Trump will reverse anything that doesn't work, because, unlike the rest of the bought and paid off political elite, Trump doesn't give a shit about keeping the status quo.

If I'm a cupcake then why don't you bite me? Status quo? He cares about two things and two things only Money and perverted sex acts with the golden showers crowd. Maybe he actually thinks that stuff is gold. He has set himself and his family up as a cottage industry right under the noses of his followers. He's convinced lots of very naive folks that he cares about them. The middle class and working poor are beneath him and all the bullshit promises are just that. "You'll have terrific healthcare at a tiny fraction of blah blah blah" It'll all be so easy! "You'll be tired of winning. "Only the best people!"

And as you fools sat there all glassy-eyed and hopeful he was already planning how to get away with raping the country. Disappearing Inauguration loot, marketing Ivanka's line of goods, Peddling influence to anyone with the price of admission. Selling real estate to Russian spies and laundering Putin's dirty money through real estate deals that make no logical sense. Stiffing wounded warriors out of their money, stiffing hopeful students out of their life blood and stiffing every contractor and lawyer he ever met. Appointing Cabinet chiefs hand picked by Putin, Appointing Cabinet Chiefs with no skills and an almost equal thirst for wealth. Handing off the most security intensive tasks to family with no clearances.

Yeah, he doesn't care much for the way things were. That's a fact. Just like his famous alternative facts, he's creating an alternative reality. And now he's gonna meet with a nuclear-armed childish madman to talk peace? Talk about kindred spirits. It's been a wild ride so far and I only hope we can all get off safely when that ride is stopped by Mueller and his team.

We haven't seen anything yet. .

Which is why he's addressing his platform and not kissing Democratic or Republican ass.
Either you are mentally disturbed or you really don't know the Democratic or Republican platforms.

Don't rule out both. NOthing saying it could not be both. Both seems really likely with this one.

 

[kaz]

He cares about two things and two things only Money and perverted sex acts with the golden showers crowd

Just stop right there. You supported a sexual predator ... twice ... and then his ho who attacked his victims a third time.

Just cut the stupid shit that you have moral standards

 

[kaz]

Flagrant confirmation bias. This is also a single cause fallacy.

A twofer, nice!

The stagnation of Middle Class and Working poor wages is no confirmation bias.

The Free Traders made promises. They did not occur. There was a lot of time for that happen.


The policy has failed. Time for a new policy.

But, when you just pull policies out of your ass on the fly without even consulting people with strong backgrounds in econ that are charged with making recommendations, that's wrong. Contrary to popular opinion of the 38% he's almost never the smartest guy in the room.

Because we've all seen the perfect results of wll thought out policies since Reagan...
Feeling stupid yet?
I got news for you cupcake, Trump will reverse anything that doesn't work, because, unlike the rest of the bought and paid off political elite, Trump doesn't give a shit about keeping the status quo.

If I'm a cupcake then why don't you bite me? Status quo? He cares about two things and two things only Money and perverted sex acts with the golden showers crowd. Maybe he actually thinks that stuff is gold. He has set himself and his family up as a cottage industry right under the noses of his followers. He's convinced lots of very naive folks that he cares about them. The middle class and working poor are beneath him and all the bullshit promises are just that. "You'll have terrific healthcare at a tiny fraction of blah blah blah" It'll all be so easy! "You'll be tired of winning. "Only the best people!"

And as you fools sat there all glassy-eyed and hopeful he was already planning how to get away with raping the country. Disappearing Inauguration loot, marketing Ivanka's line of goods, Peddling influence to anyone with the price of admission. Selling real estate to Russian spies and laundering Putin's dirty money through real estate deals that make no logical sense. Stiffing wounded warriors out of their money, stiffing hopeful students out of their life blood and stiffing every contractor and lawyer he ever met. Appointing Cabinet chiefs hand picked by Putin, Appointing Cabinet Chiefs with no skills and an almost equal thirst for wealth. Handing off the most security intensive tasks to family with no clearances.

Yeah, he doesn't care much for the way things were. That's a fact. Just like his famous alternative facts, he's creating an alternative reality. And now he's gonna meet with a nuclear-armed childish madman to talk peace? Talk about kindred spirits. It's been a wild ride so far and I only hope we can all get off safely when that ride is stopped by Mueller and his team.

We haven't seen anything yet. .

Which is why he's addressing his platform and not kissing Democratic or Republican ass.
Either you are mentally disturbed or you really don't know the Democratic or Republican platforms.

He doesn't care. It's just a team sport for Wickerthing