Progressives rotate 180°on their views over night

[P@triot]

For this I do blame Trump for the way he handled it and the media for fueling the fight, but ultimately Trump is our leader and he needs to do better.

I don't blame President Trump or the media. There were racists long before either of them existed. The real issue is how the left is exploiting racism as an excuse for their violence.

Think about - those statues existed all 8 years that Barack Obama was in office. And not a word was heard from the left. But now....all of a sudden....they must come down? The left is furious over losing the election to Trump and they've taken to the streets over it. As the bad publicity has started to pile up against them for their uncivilized behavior, they've needed a scapegoat. They've turned to "racism" and statues as their scapegoat.

 

[Slade3200]

For this I do blame Trump for the way he handled it and the media for fueling the fight, but ultimately Trump is our leader and he needs to do better.

I don't blame President Trump or the media. There were racists long before either of them existed. The real issue is how the left is exploiting racism as an excuse for their violence.

Think about - those statues existed all 8 years that Barack Obama was in office. And not a word was heard from the left. But now....all of a sudden....they must come down? The left is furious over losing the election to Trump and they've taken to the streets over it. As the bad publicity has started to pile up against them for their uncivilized behavior, they've needed a scapegoat. They've turned to "racism" and statues as their scapegoat.

The statues were the second step. The first step was the confederate flag which was taken down during Obama and by Nikki Haley to give her credit. The confederate statues are next and i'm sure there will be a fraction that will go after Jefferson and Washington for being slave owners. I believe there is rationale around the confederate generals but it will end there for the vast majority and the voices going after the slave owning founders will be small.

 

[JoeB131]

Think about - those statues existed all 8 years that Barack Obama was in office. And not a word was heard from the left. But now....all of a sudden....they must come down?

Um, no, Poodle, people have been pushing to get rid of these statues for years.

 

[P@triot]

The confederate statues are next and i'm sure there will be a fraction that will go after Jefferson and Washington for being slave owners. I believe there is rationale around the confederate generals but it will end there for the vast majority and the voices going after the slave owning founders will be small.

They announced yesterday that they were going after George Washington and Benjamin Franklin. I'll fight that to the bitter end. Those were great men. The greatest of men. Nobody in history could even begin to touch Washington, Jefferson, and Franklin. And all 3 vehemently opposed slavery.

Yes - they owned slaves. They inherited them and there was nothing they could do about it. You could not legally free your slaves. Eventually they got the law changed so that you could upon your death - which is what George Washington did. However, by the time Thomas Jefferson was on his death bed, the law had been changed again to state that you could only free them if you could afford to pay X amount for each slave (because society was finding a bunch of "free" people with no jobs, no skillsets, no land, who couldn't even read and they were thus a "burden" on society). Jefferson had donated so much money to the U.S. government and the University of Virginia that he was deeply in debt by the time he passed away and was unable to free his slaves.

 

[JoeB131]

They announced yesterday that they were going after George Washington and Benjamin Franklin. I'll fight that to the bitter end. Those were great men. The greatest of men. Nobody in history could even begin to touch Washington, Jefferson, and Franklin. And all 3 vehemently opposed slavery.

who is they?

Two of them owned slaves and one of them (Jefferson) raped his on a regular basis.

Yes - they owned slaves. They inherited them and there was nothing they could do about it.

Sure they could have. THey could have also said at the Constitutional Convention "Hey, guys, as long as we are saying all men are created equal, maybe we should end slavery."

Sorry, can't get worked up about guys who saved us from the horror of being Canadians.

 

[xyz]

Nobody rotates their point of view faster than Trump. If there was an Olympic event in it, he'd win all the medals hands down.

 

[P@triot]

Nobody rotates their point of view faster than Trump. If there was an Olympic event in it, he'd win all the medals hands down.

No argument there. He was a die-hard liberal, then he was a die-hard conservative. He's all over the place. However, as President, he has a responsibility to rotate his views. He's not a dictator. He's a servant. A representative of the people. And it doesn't matter what he wants. It matters what the American people want.

So if he wants higher taxes to pay the debt and the American people want lower taxes, it his responsibility to "rotate" on that position and implement lower taxes.

*Note: that is not an excuse for politicians to lie to get into office. If a candidate supports abortion, having the responsibility to rotate due to the will of the people is not an excuse for them to declare the oppose abortion to get into office and then "rotate" (which is not what they are actually doing) to supporting abortion under the guise that it was the will of the American people.

 

[Slade3200]

The confederate statues are next and i'm sure there will be a fraction that will go after Jefferson and Washington for being slave owners. I believe there is rationale around the confederate generals but it will end there for the vast majority and the voices going after the slave owning founders will be small.

They announced yesterday that they were going after George Washington and Benjamin Franklin. I'll fight that to the bitter end. Those were great men. The greatest of men. Nobody in history could even begin to touch Washington, Jefferson, and Franklin. And all 3 vehemently opposed slavery.

Yes - they owned slaves. They inherited them and there was nothing they could do about it. You could not legally free your slaves. Eventually they got the law changed so that you could upon your death - which is what George Washington did. However, by the time Thomas Jefferson was on his death bed, the law had been changed again to state that you could only free them if you could afford to pay X amount for each slave (because society was finding a bunch of "free" people with no jobs, no skillsets, no land, who couldn't even read and they were thus a "burden" on society). Jefferson had donated so much money to the U.S. government and the University of Virginia that he was deeply in debt by the time he passed away and was unable to free his slaves.

I agree with you about the founders and would never support trying to redefine the as racists or taking down their monuments. I've heard a few fringe activists on the Left bring up the point trying to take down their memorials and it is BS. I don't think many on the Left agree with them so I hope those on the Right don't dishonestly try and define liberals and democrats as supporting that position. Just as I hope the Left doesn't define all conservatives or Republicans as being Nazi, white supremacist racists

 

[P@triot]

Just as I hope the Left doesn't define all conservatives or Republicans as being Nazi, white supremacist racists

Too late!

 

[Slade3200]

Just as I hope the Left doesn't define all conservatives or Republicans as being Nazi, white supremacist racists

Too late!

Some do and they are wrong, but I don't think the vast majority do at all... I live in California and know many Dems and Republicans and real life people don't demonize as much as they do on TV and on this forum. People like fighting ghosts but when they are face to face with real people, it is a different story.

 

[P@triot]

Just as I hope the Left doesn't define all conservatives or Republicans as being Nazi, white supremacist racists

Too late!

Some do and they are wrong, but I don't think the vast majority do at all... I live in California and know many Dems and Republicans and real life people don't demonize as much as they do on TV and on this forum. People like fighting ghosts but when they are face to face with real people, it is a different story.

I could be wrong - but it sure seems to me that almost all progressives have bought into the false narrative that people who want liberty are "racist", "hate the poor", and "evil".

 

[Slade3200]

Just as I hope the Left doesn't define all conservatives or Republicans as being Nazi, white supremacist racists

Too late!

Some do and they are wrong, but I don't think the vast majority do at all... I live in California and know many Dems and Republicans and real life people don't demonize as much as they do on TV and on this forum. People like fighting ghosts but when they are face to face with real people, it is a different story.

I could be wrong - but it sure seems to me that almost all progressives have bought into the false narrative that people who want liberty are "racist", "hate the poor", and "evil".

Thats definitely the talking points from the extremists wing nuts. But that doesn't represent the vast majority. Look at our leadership for example... Arguably the most partisan and politicize group in history. You still only have a handful of people spewing those talking points out of the hundreds of representatives we have in Congress. We are on a road to nowhere if we are going to demonize the masses for the actions of a few that only represent the extreme wings. That goes for both sides

 

[P@triot]

Thats definitely the talking points from the extremists wing nuts. But that doesn't represent the vast majority. Look at our leadership for example... Arguably the most partisan and politicize group in history. You still only have a handful of people spewing those talking points out of the hundreds of representatives we have in Congress. We are on a road to nowhere if we are going to demonize the masses for the actions of a few that only represent the extreme wings. That goes for both sides

You're probably right. Leadership gets all of the air time but that doesn't mean they represent the rest of their side. But I'm so used to hearing Nancy Pelosi, Harry Reid, and Maxine Waters call us all of those things that I guess I just assumed that was the norm.

 

[Slade3200]

Thats definitely the talking points from the extremists wing nuts. But that doesn't represent the vast majority. Look at our leadership for example... Arguably the most partisan and politicize group in history. You still only have a handful of people spewing those talking points out of the hundreds of representatives we have in Congress. We are on a road to nowhere if we are going to demonize the masses for the actions of a few that only represent the extreme wings. That goes for both sides

You're probably right. Leadership gets all of the air time but that doesn't mean they represent the rest of their side. But I'm so used to hearing Nancy Pelosi, Harry Reid, and Maxine Waters call us all of those things that I guess I just assumed that was the norm.

Those three are partisan hacks and exemplify the worst in our politics. Those types of actions should be condemned, not rewarded, on both sides of the aisle.

 

[JoeB131]

I could be wrong - but it sure seems to me that almost all progressives have bought into the false narrative that people who want liberty are "racist", "hate the poor", and "evil".

Well, probably has to do with the fact that your definition of liberty is defending white privilage from things like affirmative action and wealth equality... that's probably where they get the idea.

That and people like you being generally selfish douchebags.

 

[Slade3200]

I could be wrong - but it sure seems to me that almost all progressives have bought into the false narrative that people who want liberty are "racist", "hate the poor", and "evil".

Well, probably has to do with the fact that your definition of liberty is defending white privilage from things like affirmative action and wealth equality... that's probably where they get the idea.

That and people like you being generally selfish douchebags.

This may be a first but i'm going to defend P@triot ... Yes he can be a doubebag sometimes, like most of us we get involved in heated political discussion and dive down to the gutter. I'm guilty of it. I've gotten into it with Pat and called him a douchebag many times as we come at several issues from opposite sides. He is a tough, hard headed debater but he is capable of reasonable debate. I've left a few heated debates with him frustrated but grateful for the challenge and usually with a few things on my mind to think about. Its all about approach and tone. A start is believing that you have political opponents who are smart and good hearted people. If you can do that then you can give productive debate a chance. I'm not yet sure that Pat agrees on that point as he may still think all Lefties are crazy, evil or misguided people But i've seen cracks in that shell

 

[P@triot]

This may be a first but i'm going to defend P@triot ... Yes he can be a doubebag sometimes...

Hey! You don't have to agree with him!

 

[JoeB131]

This may be a first but i'm going to defend P@triot ... Yes he can be a doubebag sometimes, like most of us we get involved in heated political discussion and dive down to the gutter. I'm guilty of it. I've gotten into it with Pat and called him a douchebag many times as we come at several issues from opposite sides. He is a tough, hard headed debater but he is capable of reasonable debate. I've left a few heated debates with him frustrated but grateful for the challenge and usually with a few things on my mind to think about. Its all about approach and tone. A start is believing that you have political opponents who are smart and good hearted people. If you can do that then you can give productive debate a chance. I'm not yet sure that Pat agrees on that point as he may still think all Lefties are crazy, evil or misguided people But i've seen cracks in that shell

You give Poodle way too much credit.

He's a 25 year old child who read Ayn Rand in High School and he really thinks that's how the world ought to work.

There are conservatives here I kind of respect. I think there are problems with the entitlement state and we need to reform some things.

He isn't one of them, because his philosophy lacks any kind of humanity. Anyone who needs help is a "parasite" in his view.

He also has a habit of accusing people of things without any evidence when he can't win a debate otherwise.

So, no, he doesn't deserve respect.

 

[P@triot]

He's a 25 year old child

That's completely wrong

who read Ayn Rand in High School

That's completely wrong (honestly never even heard the name Ayn Rand in high school or college)

He isn't one of them, because his philosophy lacks any kind of humanity. Anyone who needs help is a "parasite" in his view.

That's the tired and desperate battle cry of the entitled parasite. I guarantee I give more to charity in a week than JoeB gives in a year. Guarantee it.

The fact is, the government does not exist for "those in need". That's not its function. That's not its purpose. That's what charity is for. But Joey hates charity because he can't demand unlimited money and benefits from them like he can from government. He believes he's entitled to what other people earn and that can only be achieved through communism.

 

[JoeB131]

That's the tired and desperate battle cry of the entitled parasite. I guarantee I give more to charity in a week than JoeB gives in a year. Guarantee it.

I don't give anything to scams run by rich people.... so probably not. I doubt you do either, since you think there are people out there paying 60% of their income in taxes and you wish you were one of them.

The fact is, the government does not exist for "those in need". That's not its function. That's not its purpose. That's what charity is for. But Joey hates charity because he can't demand unlimited money and benefits from them like he can from government. He believes he's entitled to what other people earn and that can only be achieved through communism.

Uh, dude, I don't collect anything from the government, not even a lot of the benefits I'm probably entitled to as veteran. To the point, charities don't get the job done. Pick up a history book, and read what the world was like before the progressive era. For most people, it kind of sucked.