Proof God Exists: Here is my 11-Step Logical Proof. Enjoy.

[frigidweirdo]

Ladies and gentlemen, a couple of years ago, I devised a logical proof God exists in response to many requests that I do so. It is based on the Good Fruits argument, using canonized saints of the Catholic Church, who are universally recognized as great people because they lived among the people they served, and usually endured harsh situations at some point in life. All had strong prayer lives, and daily prayer interaction with God. There are five postulates which must be accepted on their face. Here is my proof. I am a former math teacher, so logic is may game. I hope this proof will lead a few atheists to conversion back to God.

1. Postulate #1: A wise person is a good (virtuous) person and a good person is a wise person.
2. Postulate #2: If a person is good (virtuous) in one area, he is good across the board.
3 Therefore, if a person is wise in one area, he is wise across the board.
4. Postulate: #3 Wisdom is Truth.
5 Postulate #4: A canonized saint of the Catholic Church is a person who is universally recognized by the majority to have been a very good person in life.
6 Postulate #5: Canonized saints by definition, were very devout believers in God.
7 Since canonized saints are universally recognized as very good people, then by postulate #1, they are very wise people.
8. Since canonized saints are very wise people, by Postulate #2, they are very wise people in all areas, across the board.
9 Therefore, it is very wise to believe in God, since canonized saints were devout believers in God.
10. And since wisdom is truth by Postulate #3 believing in God is wise and therefore the truth
11. Therefore it is true God exists.

1)-3) "wise" and "good" are human words and based from a human perspective. Is a person who eats meat "good"? How do we know what God would think is "good".

"wise" might mean "knowledgeable" or "smart", the first is to know lots of things, the other to make the right decisions. We know so little, a truly knowledgeable person probably knows about 0.00000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000001% of things. If that.

4) "Wisdom is truth". What does this even mean? What is the "truth"? What happened? What's been recorded? What people accept as the "truth"?

5) the cannonization of a person to be a saint is a political process.

5 Saints who were notorious sinners

These saints (a group that includes a former "loose woman," and a "low-life criminal") remind us that there's hope for us!

aleteia.org

Here are some "notorious sinners"

11) You could have said "humans fuck, dogs fuck, cats fuck, flowers use bees to fuck, therefore God exists", it's have the same meaning. You get to number 11 without having said anything much and then demand people accept that God exists.... weird.

 

[Mashmont]

I think the best argument in favor of my proof is there are NO atheist correspondents to the lives of canonized Saints. No one can point to a single atheist universally known for his virtue who lived among and served the poor and needy, devoting his life to them for little or no compensation. The reason is obvious. Atheism doesn't entail or require service to others. Its hallmark is self-indulgence, whereas the best Christians are known for their service to others.

 

[Mashmont]

1)-3) "wise" and "good" are human words and based from a human perspective. Is a person who eats meat "good"? How do we know what God would think is "good".

"wise" might mean "knowledgeable" or "smart", the first is to know lots of things, the other to make the right decisions. We know so little, a truly knowledgeable person probably knows about 0.00000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000001% of things. If that.

4) "Wisdom is truth". What does this even mean? What is the "truth"? What happened? What's been recorded? What people accept as the "truth"?

5) the cannonization of a person to be a saint is a political process.

5 Saints who were notorious sinners

These saints (a group that includes a former "loose woman," and a "low-life criminal") remind us that there's hope for us!

aleteia.org

Here are some "notorious sinners"

11) You could have said "humans fuck, dogs fuck, cats fuck, flowers use bees to fuck, therefore God exists", it's have the same meaning. You get to number 11 without having said anything much and then demand people accept that God exists.... weird.

When I use terms like good, they are defined as most reasonable people would consider it. Most people agree what a good and virtuous person is like. Wisdom is the same. Again, it's what most reasonable people would agree is sound decision making. mostly in life situations, as opposed to some particular skill. It's not as complicated as you want to make it.

As for saints who were notorious sinners, that should give hope to us all. Those were people who repented, then lived extraordinary lives after that. It's not where we start; it's where we end up that matters.

 

[frigidweirdo]

When I use terms like good, they are defined as most reasonable people would consider it. Most people agree what a good and virtuous person is like. Wisdom is the same. Again, it's what most reasonable people would agree is sound decision making. mostly in life situations, as opposed to some particular skill. It's not as complicated as you want to make it.

As for saints who were notorious sinners, that should give hope to us all. Those were people who repented, then lived extraordinary lives after that. It's not where we start; it's where we end up that matters.

Yes, as I said "good" is a human term from a human perspective. NOT from a God's perspective.

So your argument here is "people say this is good, and some people achieve this level of "goodness", therefore God exists".

That makes no sense.

You have to remember that some of those saints weren't people who "repented". They did what they had to do to get the power they wanted. They worked within the church. They became saints because people wanted to make them saints. Doesn't mean they were good or even lived extraordinary lives.

You could try and make me a saint, if you wanted. I don't need to have done anything special, you just lie about it.

 

[Mashmont]

Yes, as I said "good" is a human term from a human perspective. NOT from a God's perspective.

So your argument here is "people say this is good, and some people achieve this level of "goodness", therefore God exists".

That makes no sense.

You have to remember that some of those saints weren't people who "repented". They did what they had to do to get the power they wanted. They worked within the church. They became saints because people wanted to make them saints. Doesn't mean they were good or even lived extraordinary lives.

You could try and make me a saint, if you wanted. I don't need to have done anything special, you just lie about it.

You skipped quite a few steps in your attempted summary of my proof.
And your claim about how saints are canonized is grossly incorrect. Canonized saints were extraordinary people who did extraordinary things through their love and charity.

 

[frigidweirdo]

You skipped quite a few steps in your attempted summary of my proof.
And your claim about how saints are canonized is grossly incorrect. Canonized saints were extraordinary people who did extraordinary things through their love and charity.

Really? So, no one lies when cannonizing saints?
I mean, they have to have done a miracle, right? But miracles are IMPOSSIBLE. So....

 

[Mashmont]

Really? So, no one lies when cannonizing saints?
I mean, they have to have done a miracle, right? But miracles are IMPOSSIBLE. So....

That's just it. Miracles are not impossible.

 

[frigidweirdo]

That's just it. Miracles are not impossible.

Meet the Church's newest saints

For the first time since October 2019, thanks to the COVID-19 pandemic, the Vatican’s St. Peter’s Square will host a canonization on May 15. This gap of two-and-a-half years was punctuated only by the pontiff in 2021 when he named Italian Third Order Dominican Margaret of Castello, patroness of...

www.osvnews.com

Let's take some saints and see what they "did".

St. Charles de Foucauld​

(1858-1916)

Charles de Foucauld: The miracle that led to his canonization

It began with a 50-foot fall inside a French chapel.

www.catholicnewsagency.com

This "miracle" that happened, happened 100 years after his DEATH.

I mean, come on.... Some guy gets impaled and doesn't die. It happens. Is it a miracle? No. It's just that different things happen in different events.

 

[Fort Fun Indiana]

That's just it. Miracles are not impossible.

Right, by definition. The game is rigged from the start. "Miracles" mean anything can happen, no matter the rules. That's what miracles are. It's just a fancy word for "magic".

 

[frigidweirdo]

Right, by definition. The game is rigged from the start. "Miracles" mean anything can happen, no matter the rules. That's what miracles are. It's just a fancy word for "magic".

It's why they hate "magic", because it gets in the way of their "miracles"

 

[Fort Fun Indiana]

It's why they hate "magic", because it gets in the way of their "miracles"

And they don't like seeing their specials claims of magic put on the same shelf as other people's claims of magic. Their claims of magic are special and different and should not be subjected to the same scrutiny or rating as everyone else's claims of magic.

 

[BULLDOG]

And as I said, disbelief in God is accompanied by so many other beliefs and practices. One isn't atheist in a vacuum. Every other aspect of their personality is affected, quite often negatively. The main accompanying feature I observe in atheists is hardness of heart.

Then there are the accompanying beliefs. For example, I have never met a single atheist who believes sex outside marriage is morally wrong. And those who practice it exhibit negative personality qualities resulting from or correlating with that sin.

Go listen to a so called Christian explain how their religion requires help for the poor, children, travelers, and prisoners, but denies any of that can be done through taxes, and then explain about hardness of heart.

 

[BULLDOG]

And as I said, disbelief in God is accompanied by so many other beliefs and practices. One isn't atheist in a vacuum. Every other aspect of their personality is affected, quite often negatively. The main accompanying feature I observe in atheists is hardness of heart.

Then there are the accompanying beliefs. For example, I have never met a single atheist who believes sex outside marriage is morally wrong. And those who practice it exhibit negative personality qualities resulting from or correlating with that sin.

Is that part of your proof that god exists? Is that part of your silly good is always wise claim?

 

[BULLDOG]

IMO we can not find GOD with our intellect, GOD trascends the intellect..... but rather try to find Him within our hearts/spirit.

But that's just my opinion.

I agree. Many people find great comfort in their belief in god. I wish I could share your belief. It wouldn't take much to convince me, but you gotta give me something real.

 

[Meriweather]

I agree. Many people find great comfort in their belief in god. I wish I could share your belief. It wouldn't take much to convince me, but you gotta give me something real.

The reality is it doesn't work by waiting for someone to give you something. It works by each person individually seeking God, not waiting for someone else to do it for them.

 

[Blues Man]

Nothing is better than god
A half loaf is better than nothing

Therefore a half loaf is better than god

 

[citygator]

Ladies and gentlemen, a couple of years ago, I devised a logical proof God exists in response to many requests that I do so. It is based on the Good Fruits argument, using canonized saints of the Catholic Church, who are universally recognized as great people because they lived among the people they served, and usually endured harsh situations at some point in life. All had strong prayer lives, and daily prayer interaction with God. There are five postulates which must be accepted on their face. Here is my proof. I am a former math teacher, so logic is may game. I hope this proof will lead a few atheists to conversion back to God.

1. Postulate #1: A wise person is a good (virtuous) person and a good person is a wise person.
2. Postulate #2: If a person is good (virtuous) in one area, he is good across the board.
3 Therefore, if a person is wise in one area, he is wise across the board.
4. Postulate: #3 Wisdom is Truth.
5 Postulate #4: A canonized saint of the Catholic Church is a person who is universally recognized by the majority to have been a very good person in life.
6 Postulate #5: Canonized saints by definition, were very devout believers in God.
7 Since canonized saints are universally recognized as very good people, then by postulate #1, they are very wise people.
8. Since canonized saints are very wise people, by Postulate #2, they are very wise people in all areas, across the board.
9 Therefore, it is very wise to believe in God, since canonized saints were devout believers in God.
10. And since wisdom is truth by Postulate #3 believing in God is wise and therefore the truth
11. Therefore it is true God exists.

1. Forrest Gump is good but not wise. So are many real people.
2. Abraham Lincoln was good in many areas but not in all.
3. I know a shot load about some stuff and less about others
4. Buddha and Confusious were wise… do they know the truth.. how can they if they disagree.
5. Fallible popularity contest… really?


…. I can’t go on here.

 

[Mashmont]

Meet the Church's newest saints

For the first time since October 2019, thanks to the COVID-19 pandemic, the Vatican’s St. Peter’s Square will host a canonization on May 15. This gap of two-and-a-half years was punctuated only by the pontiff in 2021 when he named Italian Third Order Dominican Margaret of Castello, patroness of...

www.osvnews.com

Let's take some saints and see what they "did".

St. Charles de Foucauld​

(1858-1916)

Charles de Foucauld: The miracle that led to his canonization

It began with a 50-foot fall inside a French chapel.

www.catholicnewsagency.com

This "miracle" that happened, happened 100 years after his DEATH.

I mean, come on.... Some guy gets impaled and doesn't die. It happens. Is it a miracle? No. It's just that different things happen in different events.

Sure, there will always be atheist cranks who try to disparage these great people. We've seen numerous attacks on Sts Mother Teresa and John Paul II. But we are talking the majority of reasonable people; not cranks with an anti-Catholic agenda.

 

[Mashmont]

1. Forrest Gump is good but not wise. So are many real people.
2. Abraham Lincoln was good in many areas but not in all.
3. I know a shot load about some stuff and less about others
4. Buddha and Confusious were wise… do they know the truth.. how can they if they disagree.
5. Fallible popularity contest… really?


…. I can’t go on here.

1. Forrest Gump was wise within his limited intelligence.
2 and 3 "Good" as i use it does not mean 'skillful'. It means virtuous as explained in my OP.
3. It is unlikely Buddha even existed.
4. It's much more than a popularity contest.

 

[Mashmont]

Is that part of your proof that god exists? Is that part of your silly good is always wise claim?

Not sure what you're asking, but it is neither good nor wise to have sex outside marriage.