Prop 8 in California

[Father Time]

Ahh, another Billy Graham-wannabe who is gonna set those damned religious nuts straight on what their religion teaches and how it should be practiced, damn it, because they JUST don't understand as well as he does, probably because they're stupid enough to actually BELIEVE that silliness and study it all their lives, instead of viewing it with sobby contempt from the outside, like he does.

What is it that makes leftists arrogant enough to imagine that the entire world is hungry for their advice and guidance on things they know nothing about?

Well pardon me for getting religious interpretations from another source than you. After all CLEARLY your interpretation of the Bible MUST BE 100% correct, since of course you say it is and I must be another of those arrogant leftist (and I'm not even a leftist).

Although can you point out the part of your post where you made a real argument instead of insulting me? I must've missed it.

 

[Cecilie1200]

Well pardon me for getting religious interpretations from another source than you. After all CLEARLY your interpretation of the Bible MUST BE 100% correct, since of course you say it is and I must be another of those arrogant leftist (and I'm not even a leftist).

Although can you point out the part of your post where you made a real argument instead of insulting me? I must've missed it.

What is it that makes leftists arrogant enough to imagine that the entire world is hungry for their advice and guidance on things they know nothing about? <------- The point you missed while pretending you were the Pope handing down doctrine from on high.

As for "I'm not even a leftist", my feeling is that if it walks like a duck and quacks like a duck, it shouldn't be surprised when it gets roasted.

 

[Procrustes Stretched]

Look what happened to great and powerful nations of the earth who have embraced homosexuality. Greece, wiped out, Romans, leveled, Tenochitlan of the Aztec Empire, wiped out by Cortez, Hitlers Germany, yes check your history, decimated. Oh yeah, Sodom, Gomorrah, consumed by fire.

wow! gays will bring about the end of the USA? lol



Look at the societies and cultures that embraced having children---wiped out: Greece, wiped out, Romans, leveled, Tenochitlan of the Aztec Empire, wiped out by Cortez, Hitlers Germany, yes check your history, decimated.

 

[eots]

wow! gays will bring about the end of the USA? lol



Look at the societies and cultures that embraced having children---wiped out: Greece, wiped out, Romans, leveled, Tenochitlan of the Aztec Empire, wiped out by Cortez, Hitlers Germany, yes check your history, decimated.

Anyone who believes the Biblical directive that human sexuality is a gift from God, to be shared between man and wife within the bonds of marriage, is branded “homophobic,” “hateful” or “discriminatory.” They are to be silenced by all means possible.


In Their Own Words


What you are about to read is just a quick, though disturbing, glance behind the homosexual lobby’s lavender curtain.


Below are two of the central demands put forth by homosexual activists in their “1972 Gay Rights Platform”:



“Repeal all laws governing the age of sexual consent.” (This should send a chill down the spine of any parent. It would legally allow pedophiles, and homosexuals who were so inclined, to access your children and teens for their own predatory sexual gratification — so long as those children “consented” to having sex.)


“Repeal all legislative provisions that restrict the sex or number of persons entering into a marriage unit.” (Once marriage is redefined, there can be no logical or ethical objection to any conceivable “marriage” combination, including polygamous “marriages.” By watering down marriage, “gay” activists and like-minded politicos [usually activist judges] remove this foundational institution’s intrinsic value.)



Here are just a few of the demands the homosexual lobby put forth during the 1987 (Homosexual) “March on Washington”:



“The government should provide protection from discrimination based on sexual orientation in employment, public accommodations and education just as protection is provided on race, creed, color, sex, or national origin.” ([ENDA] This would force all religious business owners, landlords and schools to abandon — under penalty of law — sincerely held and constitutionally protected religious beliefs and adopt a view of sexual morality that runs entirely counter to central teachings of every major world religion.)


“Anti-homophobic curriculum in the schools.” (Translation: pro-homosexual, government-mandated indoctrination. This is already occurring in thousands of public schools throughout America. Children are being force-fed the absurd notion that male-male anal sodomy is a perfectly acceptable, “alternative” sexual “orientation.” This calculated propaganda continues to expand, despite the fact that the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC) has acknowledged that such behaviors place participants at extremely high risk for dangerous and often deadly infectious disease.)


“The government should ensure all public education programs include programs designed to combat lesbian/gay prejudice. … Institutions that discriminate against lesbian and gay people should be denied tax-exempt status and federal funding.” (This means churches, religious schools and religious businesses. Some jurisdictions, such as the state of New Jersey, have already begun removing tax-exempt status from church related ministries that refuse to provide “commitment ceremonies” to homosexuals.)


“Public and private institutions should support parenting by lesbian or gay couples.” (This is now being mandated in many states such as California and Massachusetts. In Massachusetts, Catholic Charities’ adoption service was recently forced to close down because it refused to assign children to homosexuals for adoption.)


The push for federal “hate crimes” legislation is another activist tool intended to silence traditional views on human sexuality and sexual morality. Similar laws have already been used around the world, and even right here at home, to persecute Christians and other traditionalists. For example, in 2004, 11 Christians were arrested in Philadelphia and charged with a “hate crime” for merely preaching the Bible at a public homosexual street festival. They could have served up to 47 years in prison.


More recently, a Christian photographer was dragged before the New Mexico Human Rights Division for refusing to photograph a “commitment ceremony” for a lesbian couple because lesbian behavior is inconsistent with Christianity.


Such stark examples of homofascist persecution continue to mount. And they’re by design. Noted homosexual activist and pornographer Clinton Fein addressed the “gay” agenda in a 2005 article candidly titled, “The Gay Agenda”:



On “hate crimes” laws: “Hate Crime laws are just the beginning. Once those are passed either federally or in all 50 states, begin campaign to eliminate homophobia entirely.”


On “hate thoughts” and “hate speech” laws: “Homophobic inclinations alone, even without any actions, should be criminal and punishable to the full extent of the law.”


On influencing public policy: “Make sure that gay representation permeates every level of governance.”


On “same-sex marriage”: “Demand the institution and then wreck it. James Dobson was right about our evil intentions. We just plan to be quicker than he thought.”


On “gays” in the Church: “Reclaim Jesus. He was a Jewish queer to begin with, and don’t let anyone forget it.”



The homosexual lobby’s goals have been clearly defined for decades. But for any goal to be successfully achieved, clever stratagem and sound methodology must be diligently applied.


In their manuscript, After the Ball: How America Will Conquer Its Fear and Hatred of Gays in the 90’s (1989, Doubleday/Bantam), Harvard educated marketing experts Marshall Kirk and Hunter Madsen meticulously laid out the homosexual lobby’s blueprint for success in what is widely regarded as the handbook for the “gay” agenda.


They devised a three-pronged approach that the homosexual lobby has masterfully implemented in subsequent years: Desensitization, Jamming and Conversion.


Kirk and Madsen summarized their approach this way:



Portray gays as victims, not as aggressive challengers.

Give potential protectors a just cause.

Make gays look good.

Make victimizers look bad.
Concerned Women for America - Unmasking The “Gay” Agenda

 

[Sunni Man]

Sodomites hate straight people and want to destroy our morals and society.

Religion is an obstruction to their goals. So the homos want to destroy it also.

Their ultimate agenda is to convert our children to their perverted lifestyle.

 

[FireGod]

Sodomites hate straight people and want to destroy our morals and society.

Religion is an obstruction to their goals. So the homos want to destroy it also.

Their ultimate agenda is to convert our children to their perverted lifestyle.

Ummmm yeah ok you figured it all out.

 

[Truthspeaker]

wow! gays will bring about the end of the USA? lol



Look at the societies and cultures that embraced having children---wiped out: Greece, wiped out, Romans, leveled, Tenochitlan of the Aztec Empire, wiped out by Cortez, Hitlers Germany, yes check your history, decimated.

Thanks for the applause, congratulations, you are not smart.

 

[Cecilie1200]

wow! gays will bring about the end of the USA? lol



Look at the societies and cultures that embraced having children---wiped out: Greece, wiped out, Romans, leveled, Tenochitlan of the Aztec Empire, wiped out by Cortez, Hitlers Germany, yes check your history, decimated.

Dear GOD, your posts are a blithering, useless waste of time. Perhaps you should get a productive hobby, one that doesn't require you to actually use words.

 

[catzmeow]

Thanks for the applause, congratulations, you are not smart.

Irony, thy name art Truthspeaker.

 

[sky dancer]

Thanks for the applause, congratulations, you are not smart.

I would revisit a few of your own posts before making that statement to others.
http://diewachen.com/2008/11/tiresomely-offensive-martyr-stance-of.html

 

[Truthspeaker]

If you would revisit my posts then why don't you. What is holding you back. Fear of truth and right-thinking. I swear, this phony rebellion thing you liberals got going on, I don't get it. It's so late 90's. Just like the phrase eracism, and the pink triangle revolution in high schools. and gay pride month, and gay history month and bestiality month. Oh yeah that phrase written in rainbow colors "Celebrate Diversity" I can hear the lisp as I am reading it. It's a tired act and there is nothing wrong with good core Judeo-Christian values.

 

[sky dancer]

If you would revisit my posts then why don't you. What is holding you back. Fear of truth and right-thinking. I swear, this phony rebellion thing you liberals got going on, I don't get it. It's so late 90's. Just like the phrase eracism, and the pink triangle revolution in high schools. and gay pride month, and gay history month and bestiality month. Oh yeah that phrase written in rainbow colors "Celebrate Diversity" I can hear the lisp as I am reading it. It's a tired act and there is nothing wrong with good core Judeo-Christian values.

This post is quite telling of your attitude toward others..

 

[Truthspeaker]

yes it is isn't it.

 

[sky dancer]

yes it is isn't it.

So much for telling the truth about mutual respect, 'truthspeaker'.

The passage of Proposition 8 triggered a fierce response from the gay community because of the timing and scale of Mormon actions:

Overwhelming Force. Mormons are only 2% of Californians, but were 77% of the personal money, and 80-90% of the volunteer effort for Prop 8. 45% of all money coming from outside into California for Prop 8 came from Utah. It felt out of proportion. It felt like bullying. It felt personal.

Against the Tide. On election night, Americans overcame prejudice and voted for an exceptional man. We joined the world in rejoicing. And then Prop 8 won. Americans voted for Obama and against us.

Culture Wars. We&#8217;ve been political pawns for decades, and this election cycle gay issues were not the focal point. It felt nice to not have our personal lives used as political footballs by the parties. Prop 8 put us back in the center.

Theft. You don&#8217;t feel so bad about $100 you never had, but $100 stolen from you feels terrible. The California Supreme Court determined that gay people had an equal right to marriage, then Prop 8 took it away.

Stealth. Mormons hid their identities in their neighborhood actions and kept most money donations under the $1,000 reporting limit, so gay people didn&#8217;t realize the scale of the effort until late in the campaign. It crept up on us.

Lies. The Yes on 8 ad campaign lied, and in creepy associations made it only about kids and schools with the hackneyed implication of pedophilia and recruiting. While it succeeded in scaring the ignorant, and it offended gay people.

AIDS. Gay people experienced heady liberation in the 70s and surreal AIDS devastation through the 90s. We&#8217;ve had a recent calm. We started to think our community could settle down into a comfortable &#8220;middle age&#8221; of life and loves. Having children became common. Sweet old Lesbian couples became our role models! Then Mormons came to make sure the law did not support us.
Civil Rights. Same-sex marriage was not at the top of gay activists&#8217; agendas. Same-sex marriage was simply the heartfelt desire of many individual lesbian and gay couples to be fully, legally, demonstrably tied to each other, and increasingly to their children. The Prop 8 victory somehow turned that simple desire of loving couples into the civil rights issue for the whole community. Some magic switch flipped it from personal to political.

Shock. I think most gay people were as shocked as anyone that we cared so much about this issue. We thought we might win, and the hurt of Prop 8 surprised us.
http://mormonsandprop8.com/prop8/

 

[sky dancer]

Bully Politics
Calitics:: Yes on 8 Campaign Blackmails No on 8 Donors

 

[sky dancer]

No other church acted the way the Mormon sect acted. No other church pulled out all the stops to actively work their members to raise the funds which Mormons provided. For the Mormons to whine that they are singled out is like Ted Bundy complaining that the was &#8220;singled out&#8221; for killing 35 women. No other church did what the Mormons did in this campaign. It is hardly singling them out if they were pretty much the only church to act as they did.

It was the Mormon leaders who made their &#8220;sacred places of worship&#8221; centers of political activity. Remember that Mormon leaders paid to broadcast satellite messages to hundreds of Mormon churches. In those broadcasts they told their members, sitting in the pews, to fund Prop 8. The church used those &#8220;sacred places of worship&#8221; for political organizing. They recruited activists to drive to California to campaign to strip gays of rights. They raised the money that funded the campaign. Without using those &#8220;sacred places of worship&#8221; the way the Mormon leadership did it is unlikely that Prop 8 would have passed.

It was the Mormon leadership which turned &#8220;sacred places of worship&#8221; into centers of political activism. Now the church is demanding those centers of political activism be exempt from protests because they are places of worship. The hypocrisy is astounding.

If Mormon leaders turned their churches into political recruiting centers then it is perfectly fine to protest at Mormon &#8220;places of worship&#8221;. Free expression doesn&#8217;t mean one is exempt from the consequences of that speech.

What angers the Mormon sect&#8217;s leaders is that they wanted a stealth campaign. They wanted Catholics to front the campaign and take all the blame while Mormons provided the volunteers and funding. The idea was for Mormons to eat their cake and have it too.
Classically Liberal: Political fund-raising centers targeted for protests.

 

[DiveCon]

Bully Politics
Calitics:: Yes on 8 Campaign Blackmails No on 8 Donors

uh, isnt that what was being done to yes on 8 donors first?

 

[sky dancer]

uh, isnt that what was being done to yes on 8 donors first?

What I point out--is these are the so-called 'religious' or 'moral' holier- than- thou folks doing this deed, with a nice tax free status on their activities.

 

[Truthspeaker]

So much for telling the truth about mutual respect, 'truthspeaker'.

The passage of Proposition 8 triggered a fierce response from the gay community because of the timing and scale of Mormon actions:

Overwhelming Force. Mormons are only 2% of Californians, but were 77% of the personal money, and 80-90% of the volunteer effort for Prop 8. 45% of all money coming from outside into California for Prop 8 came from Utah. It felt out of proportion. It felt like bullying. It felt personal.

Against the Tide. On election night, Americans overcame prejudice and voted for an exceptional man. We joined the world in rejoicing. And then Prop 8 won. Americans voted for Obama and against us.

Culture Wars. We’ve been political pawns for decades, and this election cycle gay issues were not the focal point. It felt nice to not have our personal lives used as political footballs by the parties. Prop 8 put us back in the center.

Theft. You don’t feel so bad about $100 you never had, but $100 stolen from you feels terrible. The California Supreme Court determined that gay people had an equal right to marriage, then Prop 8 took it away.

Stealth. Mormons hid their identities in their neighborhood actions and kept most money donations under the $1,000 reporting limit, so gay people didn’t realize the scale of the effort until late in the campaign. It crept up on us.

Lies. The Yes on 8 ad campaign lied, and in creepy associations made it only about kids and schools with the hackneyed implication of pedophilia and recruiting. While it succeeded in scaring the ignorant, and it offended gay people.

AIDS. Gay people experienced heady liberation in the 70s and surreal AIDS devastation through the 90s. We’ve had a recent calm. We started to think our community could settle down into a comfortable “middle age” of life and loves. Having children became common. Sweet old Lesbian couples became our role models! Then Mormons came to make sure the law did not support us.
Civil Rights. Same-sex marriage was not at the top of gay activists’ agendas. Same-sex marriage was simply the heartfelt desire of many individual lesbian and gay couples to be fully, legally, demonstrably tied to each other, and increasingly to their children. The Prop 8 victory somehow turned that simple desire of loving couples into the civil rights issue for the whole community. Some magic switch flipped it from personal to political.

Shock. I think most gay people were as shocked as anyone that we cared so much about this issue. We thought we might win, and the hurt of Prop 8 surprised us.
Prop 8 « Mormons and Prop 8

Respect is a different thing to you than it is to people like me. To you respect means you pushing your ideals down our throats. Sorry but you can do what you want in private, just don't force us to try and like it. You all never had it so good. you live in a nation which doesn't incriminate you for your actions so you try to take advantage of the situation and pull the wool over the eyes of smart people and say you were born with this when you weren't.
Voters are smarter than you think.

 

[sky dancer]

Respect is a different thing to you than it is to people like me. To you respect means you pushing your ideals down our throats. Sorry but you can do what you want in private, just don't force us to try and like it. You all never had it so good. you live in a nation which doesn't incriminate you for your actions so you try to take advantage of the situation and pull the wool over the eyes of smart people and say you were born with this when you weren't.
Voters are smarter than you think.

Respect of other religions to me means not mocking those who have a four armed or eight armed deity. What does God look like? Do you know? Is God male or female? Do you think God is incapable of manifesting in any way at all?

As a Buddhist, I am not considered a sinner as a married lesbian. I am married as a Buddhist, and I am civilly married. I don't care if you don't like it. I care that your Church went out of its way to take a right away from me.

Stop trying to ram YOUR churches morality on my civil marriage.

Don't tell me I never had it so good. I waited 23 years to be able to marry my wife and two months later, YOUR Church poured 22 million dollars into MY state to undo that law.

I am as private in my sexuality as any other married person.

For your information, gayness runs in my family. My father and uncle were gay, I am gay. My sister is bisexual.

Mind your own business. My marriage is none of your business. Stay away from civil law. Try preaching to someone who wants to be a Mormon.